Neo Prog do I like it?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46427
Printed Date: November 28 2024 at 00:55
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Topic: Neo Prog do I like it?
Posted By: The Quiet One
Subject: Neo Prog do I like it?
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 19:18
| Hey need help for this sub-genre. Never heard Pendragon and Marillion, and well any other of the genre. So do you think I could like it? What tastes do I have to have to like it? |
Replies:
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 19:19
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If you like Genesis or VDGG you may very well like Marillion. Neo-prog is usually pretty good but pretty cheesy.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 19:23
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I think it's hard to like or dislike an entire genre...it may come down to particular bands, particular eras of those bands, particular albums, or even just particular songs...it's very hard just to nail down a "Marillion" sound, let alone the sound of a genre... What genres/bands/albums do you enjoy already? What do you like about them? ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 19:28
| Genres: well prog, hard rock 70's and some 00', few pop like Inxs and Simply Red, classic rock like CSNY others. Well very varied but focused quite in the 70's and some 60's. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 19:31
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My fave bands of prog are:
Gentle Giant Pink Floyd Yes ELP King Crimson Supertramp Jethro Tull......Genesis was never my cup of tea neither VDGG. Hard Rock: Deep Purple Led Zep Black Sabbath well you know.... |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 19:38
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Don't make a judgment on it until you've tried it. Try: Marillion (Fish-era) Pendragon Arena Satellite If you don't like any of those, don't bother getting anything else. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 20:05
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Marillion (Hogarth-era) Magenta Arena Iluvatar Sylvan E ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 20:48
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When I came to the forum 4 years ago, Ihad certain prejudice against Neo Prog, but it has changed dramatically, after Symphinic, Neo Prog is my main interest, that's why we agreed to blend the Symphonic and Neo Prog teams due to our comon interest. My favorite 10 Neo albums are:
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 21:46
C'mon E, you can't rule out Fish-era Marillion. 
Besides, it's a must for any prog fan. Even if you don't end up liking it, it is your duty to hear it. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
E-Dub wrote:Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 21:52
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Of course I can't rule it out. Stonebeard already had that one covered, so I felt it was my duty to recommend my favorite era of Marillion. And check out my new thread about a planned box set of Fish-era Marillion. And, yes, I'll be getting it!!! E -------------
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Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 02:06
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Are these considered neo-prrog? In any case, Cacho, I think you'd enjoy these based on the bands you've listed... Spock's Beard - Snow, V Flower Kings - Adam & Eve Anything by Transatlantic I dunno, I'll throw it out there...there's some band, I can't remember the name, something to do with a carnival of shadows, or freakrooms, or something..... ;-) ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 02:20
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Neo, well, I guess I am a "Neo" girl, try and remember with bands like Marillion and Pendragon that they have long histories so you might like their early stuff and dislike their current output or visa versa!
Also there is a wide variety of sounds and styles within "neo" personally there are some bands I adore, and some I couldn't listen to unless I am tied down under torture......... so if you don't like one band try not to write off the entire genre!
Based on the stuff you have listed Cacho, try Pendragon's Believe or some Tinyfish (are they neo?) Magenta, IQ(Ever is simply a stunning album) There is planty of good stuff out there!
P-C x
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 02:49
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^ I'd bounce in with IQ's Dark Matter as highly recommended along with any Fish solo albums.
Gazpacho's Night is a great (psuedo?) neo album from last year. (Other borderline Neo's that you may like include Kino and Phideaux) ------------- What? |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 06:35
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If you dont like Genesis you might as well stay away from Marillion atleast, the others i dont know, but the marillion i have heard sounded like a poor mans genesis. ------------- 
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Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 08:47
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Of course, to my ears Genesis sound like a poor man's Marillion, but i tend to be in the minority.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 09:01
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^And to everyone else they sound nothing alike. I'd add Saens- Escaping From the Hands of God to that list, and Spocks Beard, The Flower Kings and Transatlantic are considered modern Symphonic as far as I know. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 09:29
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I'd have to include IQ and Pendragon in my list, as well. Specifically, IQ's Subterranea and Pendragon's Not Of This World. E -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 09:37
You are right. Those bands are Symphonic, and so is Shadow Circus (was that the one you were thinking of? ). Which is also a band that should be checked out.
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 10:29
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Well, as someone who is not crazy about a lot of neo prog, for some reason I really enjoy a lot of IQ. Probably the only album of theirs that doesn't have at least a couple songs I like is Subterranea. I also enjoy a lot of Magenta. And Ivan reminded me of Asgard, who I never considered neo prog, though I understand why they would be put in that category as they have that 80's production and synth and drums sounds (even though their albums are from the mid 90's). Definitely my favorite of all neo bands I've listened to. I've also liked the songs by Collage that I've heard, though I've yet to hear a whole album. I also enjoy early Marillion with Fish, though I haven't listened to any of those albums for a couple of years. I generally am more of a symphonic fan, but also like a lot of avante/RIO type stuff as well as some folk prog and a whole bunch of the eclectic bands. Personally, I don't see that VDGG has anything at all to do with neo prog (as an influence), with PG Genesis being the most obvious influence. Also, are Discipline really a neo band? I really don't think they have much in common with most neo bands. But then, I've only heard Unfolded Like Staircase. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 11:10
"Push and Profit" is more Neo, but it's still really close. I was actually wondering the same thing, but didn't want to be too vocal about it. Discipline is considered Neo royalty by a lot of fans. Either way, a fantastic band. They are also getting back together. They are playing NEARfest, and a small gig in Detroit next month. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 11:14
I am planning to make that small gig in Detroit next month to see the headliner Tiles, but I am hoping and expecting to be wowed by Discipline, who I was unfamiliar with until I found out they were playing with Tiles. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 11:23
| Well I just bought Flower Kings The Sum of no Evil (I know it's symphonic) and the musicianship I think is great, the voice well.. I must get used to it.. But is there any album from Flower Kings to recomend with non metal songs. Cause this album has 2 very metalish songs that I rather dislike although the rest I rather like it and think is great... |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 11:44
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my fave neo albums are:
IQ: Ever
Clepsydra: Fears
Iluvatar: Children
Marillion: Script/ Brave
Satellite: Evening Games
Pendragon: Masquerade Overture
Pallas: Beat The Drum
Janison Edge: The Services of Mary Goode (HIGHLY UNDERRATED)...
I think that should do for now....  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 11:47
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There's a couple of those "metal-like" tunes on just about every Flower Kings Album. It seems to be part of Roine's idea about making records; to try to have a broader over-all appeal. He's a guitarist after all and it might also just be fun for him to just Riff-out once in a while.
On a side note (non Neo related) you might really like Roine Stolt's Solo album Wall Street Voodoo. It has more of a "Classic Rock" feel to it, but with enough twists and turns to stay interesting. My own recent list (Neo or not) would include Satellite- Into the Night Little Atlas - Hollow Izz - My River Flows Moon Safari - Doorway into Summer Magenta - Seven Ritual - Think Like A Mountain Cryptic Vision - In A Word K2 - Book of the Dead The Watch - Primitive RPWL - Live |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 11:48
| Neo prog's pretty decent, but i've only heard "Script for a Jesters Tear" |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 12:02
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I've never listened to a neo-prog album in its entirety, but from many of the samples I've heard the vocals are very dramatic, sometimes bordering on overblown. Now, I like this, but it's not everybody's cup of tea. Just as a word of warning.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/LinusW88" rel="nofollow - Blargh |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 12:21
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I like IQ's "The Wake", and I think that's it for me. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 12:39
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OK, here's a genre where I have major difficulty. I've heard several "classic" Marillion albums and Spock's Beard, & I think some Magenta too. So far, I can't get into any of it. To me, it seems real formulaic, and also, so polished and precise that it seems sterile. As if they use the same checklist for each song. Perhapse there's almost no balance or room for minimalism. Lack of warmth maybe? or lack of dry human elements? No attempt to incorporate contemporary styes perhapse? No jazz or psychadellic elements? No roughness around the edges?
As strange as it sounds, I'm not knocking the genre entirely, becuase I'm not that familiar with it. I'm just giving my impressions of what I've heard. What would someone steer me to if I want to stay away from anything that could be construed as what I've described my first impressions to be?
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 12:50
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^ There is Neo that does not conform, bands from the early 80s like LaHost, Grey Lady Down from the 90s or more latterly, Thieves' Kitchen skim the surface of Neo but pull influences in from more than just the symphonic Prog of the 70s ------------- What? |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 12:53
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Moongarden have recently started to incorporate post-rock into their music... apparently there'll be a track on the upcoming album which is basically shoegaze. =) but there is clearly an experimentation deficit in the base neo sound.
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 13:10
Ah! THAT's the name I was trying to think of! If only there was a convenient link to that band's website in a signature somewhere around here...(Walks away with hand in pockets whistling).... LOL...apologies for shameless self promotion.  ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 14:09
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About as subtle as Rosie O'Donnell in a roomful of Twinkies, John. E -------------
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 14:15
Just to avoid confusion; Izz and Ritual are not neo prog (according to this site). And neither is Spock's Beard, who keep getting mentioned along with The Flower Kings (who also are not neo). I did see your "Neo or not" clarification, but this is a thread about someone who is curious about trying out neo bands and I think it might be better to not point this person to bands that are not classified as neo |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 15:12
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Well its my own personal belief that there is no such thing as Neo Prog though many of the bands I like are listed there. For example take the case of Little Atlas and Izz. If you can tell me why one is listed as Neo and the other as Symphonic I'd count myself as enlightened. Or for that matter why Spock's Beard is symphonic and IQ (and Magenta for crying out loud) are Neo? I simply recommended music which I thought fit Cacho's own description of music he personally liked and I very carefully prefaced by stating say "Neo or Not". I made no pretense of including any band (Cryptic Vision is under Heavy Prog and Moon Safari is under Symphonic) in any other sub-genre. Its "all for one and one for all" to me. As a matter of fact, just to muddy the water further I should add Beardfish, Shadow Circus and Phideaux to the list of recommendations. I think Cacho would like them both. I had no intention of hijacking this thread into a sub-genre argument (they never end well) so any further discussion of my views on this subject should be addressed in a PM. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 15:41
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^The problem is that the boundery between neo and symphonic got rather muddled in the 90's, which is probably why the neo and symphonic teams have sort of merged. So I guess it doesnt really matter if you mention certain bands, as theres not much difference. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 16:37
You just made me spit coffee out of my nose laughing! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 17:13
jplanet,your so funny,just done the same thing reading your remark about the coffee.
There has to be some good neo-prog albums out there,so its worth keep looking.Thing is I find the term neo quite confusing as there were bands active in the early 80's which were progressive,one being National Health.Rush to me has a neo-prog feel on their farewell to kings album which dates from1977.
Feels more like some continuity from the 70's into the 80's.The term seems appear soon after the record press got hold of bands appearing in the 80's like marillion,pendragon,iq and twelth night.thing is the music press used the term to generally cover all sorts of 80's and 90's prog in general not thinking of the sub genres.
 Don't give up on looking for more recent prog bands and albums,they are out there,so just keep looking.Just thinking that samplers may give you a few ideas.
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 20:38
John, I hope I didn't inflict any harm that could delay a follow-up to the Freakroom.  I also recommend it highly. I thought it was symphonic. I've been known to be wrong a time or two, though. E -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 20:45
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Another prog musician on the forum? Hey, at least he's almost at 200 posts....Steven Wilson didn't even get 50 I think.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 22:29
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Some albums to try before you determine neo is not for you are:
Marillion - Marbles (the 2 CD version!), Brave, Afraid of Sunlight
Collage - Moonshine (!!! Unique within the prog world!!!, any Satellite album is just a bleak representation of this more than great album)
Saens - Escaping From The Hands Of God
Arena - The Visitor and Contagion (allthough these might be a bit "metal" to your ears)
Clepsydra - Alone and More Grains of Sand (if you can get over the accent of the vocalist)
Pallas - The Dreams of Men
And I could go on and on with IQ, Pendragon, Shadowland, Knight Area etc....
Cheezy??? What about that...of no importance to me...it's just about great music in the symphonic style to me... ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 00:07
SD, you've outlined my top 3 Marillion discs as well. I had Brave on in the car today and it never fails to send a shiver up my backbone. That's one amazing disc. Haven't spun Marbles in a while, so that might be next. I'm afraid I'll have to agree with you in regard to the Satellite/Collage comparison. I'm still trying to latch on to Into The Night, but it hasn't happened yet. Moonshine is a great neo prog disc, though. Actually had some teeth; whereas, I'm finding Satellite to be a bit too sugary for me. E -------------
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 03:50
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I used to like a lot of neo prog, the big names of the eighties: Marillion, IQ, Pendragon, Pallas, Twelfth Night... Later on Casino and Shadowland.
These days the only neo prog band I listen to on a regular basis is Pendragon. Somehow neo prog doesn't grow on me anymore, and I listen seldom to it anymore.
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:38
Hey, no sweat man. I was being a bit to anal in my post anyway. I have no desire at all to turn this into a sub-genre argument either. And having never heard Little Atlas I couldn't tell you why one is neo and the other symphonic. As others have pointed out, there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between symphonic and neo since the "original" neo bands of the 80's. You're probably right that he would like those bands anyway. So need need for a PM, I was just thought I was helping to keep things on topic. But you make good points, and I won't argue them as I mostly agree anyway. There is always a tendency to project our own views about a given genre into these threads and I seem to have done just that. Anyway, getting back to the topic, I still recommend Asgard as a good neo band for Cacho to check out. |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:41
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I think I have seen the great ones come along by now. So I think Cacho has a pretty good idea what he can go after. I can only add Skeem (bit rare but awesome neo) and Jadis to the list. But as you like the more mellow neo Cyan, Primitiv Instinct and Like Wendy could be an idea or (Belgian) Now. Unfortunately they are a bit hard to obtain.
Besides neo: I see you like ELP and Yes. In that case you could check out Cairo who are mainly like ELP but more energetic.
Good luck with the quest. ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 19:06
| Neo Prog = lack of fresh ideas |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:01
I'm astounded at the way you've backed up your argument. In-depth insight like this could be used by the Clinton camp. She'd be kicking a** and taking names from the Oval Office with you on her staff. E -------------
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Posted By: reality
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:36
I know, I am a genius aren't I. Robert John Godfrey http://www.progplanet.com/index.php?categoryid=16&p2000_articleid=23 Do you like the “modern” prog-scene? If not, why? I have tended to find most of it either a rather sad and shallow parody of a now largely irrelevant historical musical style or else a meaningless stream of complexity and histrionics without vision, purpose or content beyond its own raison d'etre. In its day, progressive music was generated and supported by the world's most gifted and creative musicians. Not so now. The best that Neo Prog can now conjure is, in my view, painting by numbers. Cliché upon cliché upon cliché. Where is the intelligence, the creativity, the experimentation which informed the music of the late sixties/early 1970's? Many agree with him. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 21:06
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<<I know, I am a genius aren't I.>> I don't know you, but you seem like a smart guy...as far as I can surmise. I wasn't judging, just wanted to hear it in your own words. <<Robert John Godfrey http://www.progplanet.com/index.php?categoryid=16&p2000_articleid=23 Do you like the “modern” prog-scene? If not, why? I have tended to find most of it either a rather sad and shallow parody of a now largely irrelevant historical musical style or else a meaningless stream of complexity and histrionics without vision, purpose or content beyond its own raison d'etre. In its day, progressive music was generated and supported by the world's most gifted and creative musicians. Not so now. The best that Neo Prog can now conjure is, in my view, painting by numbers. Cliché upon cliché upon cliché. Where is the intelligence, the creativity, the experimentation which informed the music of the late sixties/early 1970's?>> Well, not exactly your own words, but I can accept it. <<Many agree with him.>> Could be, but it doesn't make it right. It's all based on one's opinion. Many don't agree with him, but it doesn't make us right, either. I won't say that neo is breaking new ground and establishing standards, but to say it lacks intelligence, creativity and experimentation is of the opinion of others. They're all of these things, but the bands do it in different ways, I feel. I think neo bands like IQ, Marillion and Pendragon are working and succeeding at maintaining their relevance in today's world of progressive music. Marillion and Pendragon especially strike me as bands who follows the line left of center, thus creating intelligent, creative progressive music. Now, I sometimes question Marillion's music as being 'progressive' (I always describe them as a modern rock band with progressive tendencies), but I think there's enough there. Anyway, bands like Marillion and Pendragon are fluid and organic, meaning they're trying new things and sounds with each disc. Maybe not the 90's Pendragon, but they have really broken away from their formula for Not Of This World, to Believe (which doesn't even sound like the same band), and to what I've heard their next release, Pure, to be. Now, there are bands that you hate to admit they belong in your subgenre of choice because they fit this mold that Godfrey has outlined. Believe me, me and the team are in the middle of cleaning up neo and there are bands that I'd LOVE to throw out because there isn't anything there--no substance. You're going to have that with everything. But to lump an entire subgenre in this category is being short-sighted. So, I think my point is nobody's right and nobody's wrong. It's all opinion. Godfrey can talk until he becomes flatulent and blue in the face and I still won't buy into it. It's HIS opinion. Not saying he's wrong, but I don't subscribe to it. E -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 00:08
Since the creation of Prog Archives, Neo Prog was the ugly duclking. E-Dub accepted the lead of the team a few months ago and only in November of 2007 Bhikkhu and myself joined as members of the team.
We found a chaotic situation., first we had to do some cleaning, because some bands that obviously don't belong in Neo had to be moved.
You can search the thread http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44189&KW=Neo - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44189&KW=Neo from December 2007, and find that in the first cleaning section we found 33 bands that don't belong in Neo Prog.
NOTE: Just checked and that thread is in the Collabrators section, so thuis is the list:
33 bands may seem a small number but it represents almost 20% of the bands, in other words, 2 of each 10 bands included in Neo Prog had to go to other sub-genre. As you see. most have been accepted by other teams.
Then we started writting bios, out of 186 bands, 161 need a bio or a new one because less than a parragraph is insufficient, this means we have to search almost 90% of the bands and make bios for bands that never had a website and/or released a LP that was never upgraded to a CD, so thjere's absolutely no information.
We are trying to write an average of 30 bios each 2 weeks, this is a lot of work if you notice hat we are also the Symphonic Team, we have to deal with real life issues, work and take care of a family we live with.
Just in case, you can check: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45852&KW=Neo - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45852&KW=Neo each of us received 5 bands but only made bios of 15 because it was the first session, now we are doing ten per session each of us..
Note 2: Also in the Collaborators Section, so here's E.Dub's post informing:
Please give us a bit of time to have Neo Prog clean enough to start taking care of the individual cases.
Now, about the bands you mention:
1.- A few months ago we decided that Little Atlas belongs in Neo (without objections), we will check again the IZZ situation, even when they sounded as Symphonic to HT and Myself when he made the bio that was missing.
2.- IQ is a 100% Neo Prog band, an icon of the genre and won't be moved.
3.- Magenta started with a 100% Symphonic album as Revolutions, but they moved very fast to Seven which is clearly Neo Prog as well as Broken (The next EP they released), from then on their music has been in the border that divides Neo from mainstream, something hard to accept by me, being that I added them tto PA as Symphonic and made a frriiendship with one of the representatives of the band.
We know there's a lot of work to do, but we have advanced a lot in less than two months (Remember that we required December for us and our families so we started only in January), we can't clean in a couple months all that has not been done in 4 years, but we will do it.
Thanks for the patience.
Iván
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 00:24
That statement = a misinformed and biased generalization The top-tier bands in Neo (Pendragon, IQ, and ESPECIALLY Arena) all write great songs. You can say that you don't like the slick production on Arena's Visitor, but if you say that album has a lack of fresh ideas, I think you need to reevaluate 90% of the music on this site, because so much from ALL genres owes a lot to 70s prog. Just a side note: listening to Happy Family's Toscco now, an album with a very high rating that is very far from neo, and yet I see a clear lack of "fresh ideas." This isn't anything that hasn't been done before. Evaluate compositions and emotions you associate with them, because I honestly don't think any of the bands I mentioned now, in their mature stage, have a lack of ideas or any 70s prog worship at all. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 00:43
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Thanks Ivan. I know you're all working on the situation and that it will never be done to the total satisfaction of all (they never are). Again, I had no intention of bringing this particular issue as a major point of discussion. i was only trying to explain my own personal point of view with reference to the particular bands I suggested to Cacho. Good luck with all the work. Let me know if I can help. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 01:24
Thank you for the interest in name of the Boss E-Dub (Hey if I don't mention this I may be fired
) HT and me, we're trying to do the best, but as mentioned in other thread is very hard.As a paradox, it's normally easier to get information from a Symphonic band of 1971 than from a Neo band of 1981 or 83, we will need a lot of help, mainly with the photos and translations from other languages (There' a lot of info about some Neo band in Japanese
but not in English).We will make a list of bands without photos and hard to get bios, I'm sure some member will have the original LP with good photos and bios.
For example, we need photos of:
Just to mention a few, we will update. Thanks again.
Iván
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Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 02:46
A genius? I think not! RJG has written some of the most incredible and moving music, however, he has morphed over the last few years into a somewhat warped, twisted and bitter individual, and has the canny nack of passing off his bitter opinion as FACT. Do no confuse the two, this is RJG's opinion and he is entitled to it, you are obiviously a reader of his words, well, you must know how often he'll do a full 360!
Based on your knowledge, on your experience, what is your view? Or is your view based on a lack of knowledge and experience? It's ok if it is, but really you should 'fess up to keep any respect.
The whole genre thing is subject to so many "ah, but...!" 's that I have found it's best not to get too rattled about titles. Eric and his team are certainly working hard to brighten up the Neo image though!
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 02:53
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I do find it a bit ironic that the one who posted "Neo Prog = lack of fresh ideas" felt moved to use somebody else's words to back that statement up rather than use his own. E -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 08:50
Wow, if IZZ is neo-prog then I need to start listening to a lot more neo-prog. 
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 18:38
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one thing is sure: if you like New Age, then neo prog is for you! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 20:10
Buhfuh????!!!!  E -------------
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Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 22:39
Somehow, I kinda agree with you(or Mr.Godfrey),but still, I really like Neo for what it is;entertaining music,at least to those ears.Although I'm sure that there must have been a buch of Neo proggers out there who did create original and creative music that dosen't sound like everybody else, or 1973 redux.
Twelfth Night comes to mind.
Anyway,who says that musicians,be it prog or any genres, have to reinvent the wheel?
Althought not a specialist,I think that the same could apply to Blues or Country music,opera,reggae and many other musical styles,yet prog and specifically Neo and current sympho bands always get the bad rap that they 're just a bunch uninspired nostalgics.
------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 00:19
That says it all. And, honestly, what hasn't been done already? Music is good if the composer is true to themself and there are listeners who get it. There is no artist who ever lived who wasn't imitating someone. Yes imitated The Beatles and CSNY, Keith Emerson certainly imitated Leonard Bernstein and Mussorgsky. Robert Fripp was influenced by free-form jazz and avant-garde. Even Beethoven said he imitated Bach! Notice that the eras of classical music each lasted hundreds of years. Now people expect that once a style has been explored for a few years it is done with. I feel that while the progressive rock sound of the 70's went out of fashion, there is still much more to be explored in that style. Just because commercial radio and the music industry turned their backs on it doesn't mean there isn't much more brilliant work to be done with that genre. And to progress this rant further...I've seen a lot of snobbery touting the originality of bands who are really just overdoing dissonance Why is it that people get fooled into thinking music is original and challenging just because the melodies are hidden amongst clashing chromatic chords? I bet that nobody here can name a single band whose roots and influence cannot be easily traced to someone else. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 01:50
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There is a band HIGHLY regarded on this site with whom I own a lot of their discs. They're not a favorite of mine, but important to progressive music and some of it I like. Other songs, however, sounds like I let my 5 year old go crazy in the pots and pans cabinet in the kitchen; yet somehow THIS is called genius while other bands get lambasted because they're in neo. Bands who possess extraordinary talent (Pendragon, IQ, Marillion, Magenta), but aren't given hardly any credit. Funny how it works sometimes. These are the same folks who gave my buddy in Delaware a hard time for wearing a Marillion Brave shirt to Nearfest. Most probably never heard Brave, either. E -------------
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 02:09
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The other day I was speaking to my neighbour who likes Progressive rock, and I asked "What kind of Progressive rock do you like?"
He replied "Pink Floyd and Marillion"
I said "Ah so you like Neo Prog as well" and he said "Whatever,I just like Progressive rock"
This is so true, I for one hate the way Neo Prog is regarded as a sort of "second best"
There are some great Neo Prog bands, my favourites being Satellite, Marillion and Arena
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Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 02:59
This band wouldn't happen to be named after a character of royalty in a certain shade of red, would it? ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 04:27
Or named after an animal that produced milk....  ------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 04:29
Unfortunately, Neo prog has a pejorative persuation.  ------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: February 26 2008 at 01:01
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neo prog & new age have real similitudes: they rely on fresh sounding keyboards. and many neo prog tracks & passages are pure new age, like Iq-the other side, visible wind - interlude, clepsydra - daisies in the sunshine.... ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: kenmartree
Date Posted: February 26 2008 at 02:15
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[QUOTE=Soul Dreamer]Some albums to try before you determine neo is not for you are:
Marillion - Marbles (the 2 CD version!), Brave, Afraid of Sunlight
Collage - Moonshine (!!! Unique within the prog world!!!, any Satellite album is just a bleak representation of this more than great album)
Saens - Escaping From The Hands Of God
Arena - The Visitor and Contagion (allthough these might be a bit "metal" to your ears)
Clepsydra - Alone and More Grains of Sand (if you can get over the accent of the vocalist)
Pallas - The Dreams of Men
I'm glad someone mentioned Pallas- Dreams of Men
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 16:26
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Everyone needs to hear IQ's The Wake/i] and Ever, Pendragon's The Jewel and The Window of Life, and Twelfth Night's Fact and Fiction and Art & Illusion (because Live At The Target was all instrumental) before they decide they don't like ANY "neo-prog." You just have to separate the wheat from the chaff.
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: graydog
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 18:38
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The answer is No You Don't!
Where did it originate? The 80s, which should immediateley tell you something.
During this musical void this sub-genre emerged, deeply flawed & based on imitation. It has no more validity than rap. Close the door on this aberration.
I only keep the Transatlantic CD, SMPT so that I can play it to unsuspecting fools. It is also the worse
thing that was ever poured ino a plastic mould.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 19:01
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A lot of people try neo prog albums with the notion that it's going to suck anyway, so their experience is soiled. If someone likes Genesis, I can't find any reason why he would not like later IQ albums.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 19:24
 "validity" ? ..Rap has huge validity whether you like it or not, so does much other music from that barren decade I'd say the Neo I like I like a lot, i.e. the k2 album |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 19:27
yup, it tells me that the kids who listened to Genesis, Tull, Beachboys, Led Zep etc etc etc etc during the 70's left school and became the musicians of the 80's!
These kids had the experiences first hand, the culture of the 70's was just their life, but it inspired them......
What were those kids supposed to do? Sit on the backsides for a decade until they reached a time in history better suited to your pallate?
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 20:00
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FALSE, Neo Prog originated from the Symphonic bands of the 70's, they reached a peak of complexity, Punk appeared to put pressure on complexity and the public reactioned with negativity. If they wanted to survive, they had to make music for a new decade that was tired of giant plants and starship troopers, surely I like Symphonic more, but if Neo Prog would not had appeared, today we would be listening Rap, because the iconic Symph bands used the 80's to make Pop. During this musical void this sub-genre emerged, deeply flawed & based on imitation. It has no more validity than rap. Flawed? Please, the fact that you don't like it, doesn’t imply Neo Prog is flawed, they did the music they wanted to do, the second generation of Prog bands found a sound that went according to their times. For God's sake Genesis and Yes did POP, Jan Hammer made Miami Vice, Kansas went closer to fundamentalist POP, most of the pioneers were doing anything except Prog, but the Neo bands carried the flag during a difficult decade. Your Rap comment has no substance or value, because the two genres are in the opposite side of the musical spectrum. Close the door on this aberration. We'd better close the door to offensive comments that attempt against a genre many of us have said we like. I only keep the Transatlantic CD, SMPT so that I can play it to unsuspecting fools. It is also the worse thing that was ever poured ino a plastic mould. According to your comments probably you weren't born them and lied in your profile, because while some of us were listening Marillion or Pendragon, the world was listening Disco Music, New Age and New Wave. So if you don't have historical perspective or, in the case you are older you don't have the knowledge, better lower your tone, because insulting what others like won't win you friends here. Iván |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 20:07
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Hey, Ivan,There is a reason we call it Mellow tron! Excellent argument though , counselor! That we decide not to like other musical genres , perhaps is OK but we must preserve the sanctity of all forms of PROG, period ! And if some are stretching the envelope of civility maybe they should return to their Vibrators albums or just use the vibrators when you think of it. Left ear lobe and then the right one. I can hear the synth singing already ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 20:21
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Why bother responding to such posts, don't waste your time on that.
Anyway for understanding Neo-prog you can go all the way back to 1967 when The Moody Blues released Days of Future Past, after that Bands like Camel, Genesis and Pink Floyd developped what I would consider the core of neo-prog, synthesised keyboards creating a lush melodic symphonic atmosphere, supported by a strong melodic bass line and augmented with highly melodic guitarplay. Other bands that to more or lesser extend helped shape the sound of neo-prog prior to it's conception are Rush, Saga, VDGG, New Wave in general and even Punk (listen to Twelfth Night and some early Marillion for that, and than listen to The Clash, London Calling I hear it).
so if you enjoy The Moody Blues (all their catalogue), Pink Floyd (Dark side and Wish You Were Here most specifically), Camel (Snow Goose, Moonmadness and Mirage) and Genesis (up untill Duke I think) you are likely to enjoy neo-progressive rock, I know I do.
But the best way to find out is to listen yourself, have fun
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Posted By: TartanTantrum
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 10:25
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My favourite bands of the 70s were Genesis, Yes, Camel, Focus, Jethro Tull, ELP and Supertramp. I love Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, Pallas ------------- 666 is no longer alone |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 11:49
I must admit I fail to see how VdGG and even Rush have helped shape the sound of Neo Prog. I can see a certain similarity to Saga though in the keyboard sound. but VdGG used organ always and not the synths which are characteristic of Neo-Prog bands -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 12:11
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VDGG's influence is best heard in the singing (high emotional content) and the darker pieces from early Marillion and Twelfth Night, and of course Discipline, which isn't necessarely a neo-prog band, but I consider it to be and there the VDGG influence is very much present. IQ uses a lot of Rush references in their music. A Farewell to Kings until Power Windows has influenced bands like Marillion and IQ (listen to Xanadu, Spirit of Radio and Natural Science), but I admit it's not a primary influence, but it is present for sure (at least to my ears). |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 12:56
same thematic orientation does not necessarily mean influence, else you might as well say all love songs were inspired by Italian poets of the renaissance era ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 14:16
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Regarding theatrical vocals: I wonder, then, how indluential French theatrical Prog was on some Neo-Prog (though not a prime influence, but would be more influence on French Neo-Prog bands in more direct manner). I'd really like to see a regional and migratory evaluation of movements such as Neo-Prog in a tree structure. Anyway... The way I have tries to get into "genres" or "subgenres" here is by going through the streaming mp3s for the subgenre until I find something that grabs me. If one doesn't care for the primary/ defining characteristics of a category, then better to discover other genres first. That said, even if one isn't a fan of Neo-Prog, it's very likely that there will Neo-Prog tinged music, or, depending one one's tolerance, borderline Neo-Prog, that will appeal. I don't care for metal generally, yet there are many bands that have metal as one of the musical elements/ are influenced by it that I truly enjoy (e.g. Hoyry-Kone, Estradasphere, Taal). Can be a strong influence, and could be multi-tagged as metal. Itt will be much easier to find music from all of the categories that could appeal once multi-tagging is in place and it's fully and easily searchable. As to comments about the 80's being a bad decade for Prog: It was a great decade for avant/ chamber rock by my reckoning. Now maybe the avant rock movement as exemplified can be thought of as rather distinct, and in some cases parallel to the classic Prog movement, Rio/ avant it shares enough qualities and influences to be recognised as a subgenre (some bands being both Avant and classic Prog, whereas others have a lesser relationship with the original regognised Prog movement in terms of influence and qualities). While classic symph bands were turning commercial, one had Rock in Opposition that was, well, doing the opposite on principle, and really making amazing progressive rock. For me, avant rock in the 80's is to quite an extent what saves (from an enjoyment perspective) progressive rock from shallow mediocrity. They weren't trying to play it safe, nor pander to the mainstream industries rules. Sure it wasn't that big in terms of audience (it being a very niche market, and practically non-existent in some parts of the world), but what an amazing number of quality albums and bands, and real diversity, that fall under the avant umbrella. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 15:37
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Why speculate as to influences? If you want to get to the truth, ask the bands. Although, we can be sure Fish was influenced by Hammill, because Fool's Mate is pictured on the Fugazi back cover. So there's a VDGG connection for you. I can easily see how Hammill could have influenced Geoff Mann (from Twelfth Night) as well. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 16:50
not only "Fool's Mate", but also "Over"; it is pretty well known Fish is a great Hammill fan ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: March 11 2008 at 01:38
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Despite it's pop elements neo-prog can be one of hardest prog genres to appreciate. I know it took me a while to get into it but after hearing Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood" and Arena's "Immortal?" I quickly became a fan. I reccomend both of them highly to anyone new to neo-prog. ------------- 
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Posted By: AShowOfHands
Date Posted: March 11 2008 at 05:16
| As a huge Marillion fan I tried listening to some IQ and Pendragon (Only via YouTube mind) and found while it was okay there was something missing or it seemed kind of half-arsed. Perhaps I should listen to a full album before I can pass proper judgement. I think I could get into it its just knowing what will work for me and what won't, then again that's the purpose of this thread! |
Posted By: kenmartree
Date Posted: March 12 2008 at 02:55
I'm a huge Marillion fan as well but haven't been able to get into IQ, I think it's the vocals. Nothing like Marilion that's for sure. I do like Pendragon but I only have the Masqurade Overture.
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Posted By: AShowOfHands
Date Posted: March 12 2008 at 19:53
Yeah personally I'm unsure if Marillion were really a Neo-prog band until Misplaced Childhood anyway and I certainly wouldn't call them one now. So maybe I just plain don't dig the genre.
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 16:39
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....just got Marillion's debut..pretty good, despite the 80's drum sound still is pretty good.
Although I think I'll better stay from the genre for now and try other stuff. Flower Kings, Porcupine Tree and maybe mm don't know. |
Posted By: Squonkman
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 16:47
I don't know if IQ is listed here under Neoprog or symphonic (haven't looked yet) but if you like Trick/Wind era Genesis and Marillion, I would definitely get a hold of Dark Matter by IQ. Don't just listen to a clip on You Tube. Dark Matter is one of the best "Genesis clone" albums I have heard in a long long time. Its what 80s era Genesis should have been doing all along. Mike Holmes plays Hackett like liquid leads, plenty of great synths and keys, powerful epic type songs and the best singing I think Nichols has ever done with IQ. The epic 20 minute track Harvest of Souls which closes out the CD is some of the best new prog I have heard aside from Porcupine Tree in the last few years.
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Posted By: Squonkman
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 16:50
Well since Genesis preceded and influenced Marillion, who attempted to create music in the style of Genesis for the most part, that comment doesn't really make much sense, which is probably why you are in the minority.
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Posted By: Squonkman
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 16:53
I agree completely with that. Get Subterranea the Live album and like I said above, Dark Matter. I can't imagine anyone who likes Trick of the Tail not liking that stuff.
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 16:57
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Some good non evident neo choices :
ICU - Now & Here (featuring "A Show of Hands"
) Skeem- same (check out the PA reviews)
Tantalus- Lumen et Caligo
Knight Area- both albums
Try it out !!!! ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Squonkman
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 17:01
so I guess all the Crimson wannabe bands post 1975 should be called Neo- something also based on that logic, including I guess Crimson itself in its reformed incarnations........
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 19:18
Many a band has started out with its' influences more prominent than some would like. But Marillion also added some of their own stuff to the stew, and grew that music into something more its' own than any other previous band. Give "Clutching at Straws" a good listen. The sound is clearly symphonic influenced, but has moved towards a more modern style. No major re-inventing of the wheel, but still (opinions differ) an incremental change, with the group doing just as their idols had done before - mix their influences, add their own personal touches, come up with something that can be called Marillion. Now whether you like it or not, well, that's shouldn't really depend on similarities with a previous generation's prog. It should really be based on the songs. Hopefully, you'll give them a second chance. If not, for many people , Fish & the Boys put out some pretty good music. And also for many, Hogarth and this same bunch have continued to do so. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 19:23
Like I said before, I got Script, is really good but really it's not my stuff. I'm not an 80's suporter except for few new wave stuff like INXS or Simply Red The sound of the drums are really annoying IMO, the music is really good, and I'm sure I'm gonna still listen the album but I mean I prefer for now to stay away for the entire genre and stay with this one and continue looking for other stuff...
THX Anyways for all! |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 19:25
So some of the Neo-proggers adding more modern sounds, in some cases "poppier" aspects, or in others , a more "rockier" or "heavier" style, or even, to dread the very thought, adding world beat or ethnic/traditional musics to the mix; this is not experimenting. Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Tull, and many others did indeed create very original music. But go back and read through the interviews, read some music history (no, not just rock n roll, but classical, modern, baroque, free jazz etc ...) , then see if you can find some intelligent reviews, positive AND negative, if possible. You might be surprised to find out how much was grafted/taken/influenced/used and whatever other verb that indicates that some musical idea already in existence is and was and will part of any music that has been , is, and will be made. Especially, read the post about the various big names and their honest owning up to some of the origins of their music. No one is completely original. And with your quoting someone else, you seem to be so, too. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 19:34
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Oh, for those actually interested in getting into neo-prog : Try Marillion - Clutching at Straws. Depending on which parts you prefer, go to the Hogarth era, or backwards to the Fish period. IQ - just about anything with Nicholls as singer. Saga - yeah, Saga. In Transit, Worlds Apart, Heads or Tales. Their debut is pretty good, but has a few weak spots, and the their sophomore release suffered from lack of strong material, but you can see some of the stylistic changes that were coming, along with the first few Collins era Genesis albums. WHo knows, this might be a musical goldmine just waiting to be heard. I'm just getting into the Hogarth era Marillion - Brave & Marbles. And despite initial reservations, I like it. But I got into it without pre-judgements (i.e. where's the Genesis influence, why the poppier veneer, etc...). And I am glad. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 20:43
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Simon Says....great neo!
------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 20:50
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Great Neo? haha..
Jigsaw from Marillion you can totally listen the same keyboard section from Thriller. Not in all the song of course. This is not a judge, just INFO. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 17 2008 at 22:56
Again, try Clutching at Straws. It's Neo, but it's not Neo, if you know what I mean. If you do, then tell me ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 18 2008 at 01:55
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cacho my friend, you must try some Pavlov's Dog! They're 70s prog band with pop tendencies, sort of a neo-prog prototype. If you will like them, you're ready for selected neo-prog albums. And if you don't...you can still try. ------------- |
Posted By: Squonkman
Date Posted: April 18 2008 at 15:41
just a word of warning though----the singer makes Geddy Lee sound like Robert Mitchum. Make sure you secure your crystal ware.
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