David Bowie for eclettic Prog
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44837
Printed Date: February 11 2025 at 07:32
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Topic: David Bowie for eclettic Prog
Posted By: Ely78
Subject: David Bowie for eclettic Prog
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:23
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Serious discussion is David Bowie an artist foe Eclettic prog?
Today that has been created "Eclettic Prog" PA is clear that David Bowie should get involved. Spoken only have read many articles and heard "Space Oddity" and other songs. But I don't think I am wrong. What do you think? ------------- When the love becomes poetry, distant from the eyes (Quando l'Amore Diventa poesia/ Lontano Dagli occhi [Aphrodite's Child) |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:27
| I really like David Bowie, and really don't think so. If he were to be put in a full-Prog category, then Crossover would be the most suitable place, I believe. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:28
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discussed quite a bit for ProgRelated, Crossover, etc. ..some progress was made but don't hold your breath |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:31
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Logan wrote:Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:34
the same as we have for the last year and a half.... use the damned search function and you'll find tons of threads about Bowie for inclusion. He has been discussed.... numerous times..... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ely78
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:37
I believe that david Bowie is a 100% Prog artist and that his failure presence in PA is serious! ------------- When the love becomes poetry, distant from the eyes (Quando l'Amore Diventa poesia/ Lontano Dagli occhi [Aphrodite's Child) |
Posted By: Ely78
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:39
I say that it is time to put it! ------------- When the love becomes poetry, distant from the eyes (Quando l'Amore Diventa poesia/ Lontano Dagli occhi [Aphrodite's Child) |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 00:29
Seriously, take Micky's advise and use the search function. You will see how these discussions went. We just can't seem to find a common ground when it comes to Bowie. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 02:39
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I remember listening to Bowie's music since the times of Art Rock, out of micky's personal request (but surely, out of someone's request also). Musically, I got flat out by Bowie's music during the mid-70s, it told me nothing, and I didn't find it progressive. Sure, there's the bit of flame in the debut and the early stuff (up to Ziggy Stardust or what's that record's name), and perhaps I didn't manage to get to the late trilogy of albums (which I've seen mentioned, several times, as Bowie's best to listen music). But, ideally, I found no traces of pure progressive music in Bowie. Of course, back then it was Art Rock, and even then (since we already had sketches drawn for the new genres) did I thought "no higher than Crossover, if really to be added". Right now, given Eclectic Prog, my answer is a definite no. Perhaps Ely is thinking that Bowie did a lot of music, of different sorts, in his entire and wonderful career. But what's forgotten is the pure prog quality of a genre like Eclectic Prog. A quality that's present in almost every big/different/strong genre of this site. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 06:23
Indeed back on the issue DAVID BOWIE is very heavy.
I believe the problem should be shifted on what was the Prog in the 70's as musical style, way of thinking music etc ... And this is not easy. Not within the substance of the matter because I do not have such deep knowledge. Certainly, however, Bowie has produced albums 100% Prog ... But those in the 70's albums have produced 100% Prog? Here are examples: Judas Priest, Saxon, UFO, Mountains And it is only the first that I have come to mind. Certainly disregard "space Oddity" from Prog is a heresy. It is also true that subsequently Bowie has experienced different styles of music, something easy for a solo artist. Even far from Prog.
Certainly for artists such as Bowie would just create a new category because there are just too many solo artists (uhm... also bands) who have produced excellent Prog albums but were subsequently recycled cleverly (and often with conviction) in other musical genres. And, in my modest opinion, PR is not a category for them. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 08:55
The category I suggested sometime ago was Honorary Prog, for progressive and influential artists who make non-progressive albums. But we don't have that category. Like Mandi, I'm not convinced that he is eligible for Prog Related under the current definition and don't think his music is prog enough for a 100% Prog subgenre.
There is no denying that he is a highly significant artist in the world of music who has a progressive and eclectic approach to making music that appeals to a broad spectrum of the record buying public. This philosophy is firmly Art Rock, but the music created is not.
I think that is the dilemma with Mr David Robert Jones: He has made some Prog music, but not wholly Prog albums; he drew influence from all corners of the music world and used it to make mainstream, non-eclectic albums and he has influenced thousands of other performers, include some of those that influenced him, but has not directly influenced a prog music style or subgenre.
Some tracks on David Bowie (aka Space Oddity), The Man Who Sold The World and Hunky Dory were Prog or Proto-prog and Station To Station has some good Electronic/Krautrock moments that were a foretaste to the "Berlin Trillogy" albums with Eno. Of those three albums only Low and Heroes are the closest to 100% Prog he has made, melding Krautrock, Electronic and Art Rock with pop sensibilities (I find it significant from a musical point of view that when Phillip Glass made "Symphonic" versions of Low and Heroes he extrapolated the sparce material and used "unreleased" tracks from those sessions, which suggests to me that there was not enough music in the originals even for a minimalist composer to work with
 ).I agree with Rico - making lots of albums in different styles is not Eclectic. Crossover is the closest sub we have, but I have strong reservations on whether his Prog-influenced material fits within that sub. ------------- What? |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 09:19
Indeed. Surely, Mercury Rev is more prog crossdresser related than Bowie. ------------- ˇBeware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 09:24
No, no, not to mistake. Making lots of albums in different styles is Eclectic. But only if also pure progressive. (And my special feeling about Eclectic is that most bands have, usually, something artistic in their eclecticism too.  )Sorry for replying only to this part.  -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 09:48
I don't think one is more than the other. They just wear different designers.
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 10:13
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Chameleon Prog
 ? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 11:23
I think we are actually saying the same thing, I was using "Eclectic" as a shorthand for "Eclectic Prog" and therefore was implying pure progressive. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: December 29 2007 at 04:08
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Let's see here, from space folk to artsy glam rock, more experimental/theatrical rock, Avant-pop/rock/ambient, 80's garbage, and now at Avant/progressiveish electronic music. That's an awful lot of progress there. But then again, the whole "Is it progress or adaptation?" argument comes into play and that's where I say "Why can't it be both?" Anyway, I love "Space Oddity" and his late-70's and 90's- work. His inclusion here would be nice, but ultimately doesn't matter. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: December 29 2007 at 23:58
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I don't think that eclectic prog is where Bowie should land. I think of eclectic as a combination of styles WITHIN an album, not an adoption of different styles for successive albums. I would oppose his adoption if it were anywhere except in prog-related. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 30 2007 at 07:04
I don't think anyone does  He doesn't fit eclectic, as defined here, at all. Xover though.. it is another matter... and has been quietly under evaluation by the Xover team for some months now..if we decide to add, we will... if not... we'll suggest for PR. He belongs here.. .the question is...what fits him best.------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 30 2007 at 10:22
| If anyone wants to add him to PR, let me know and I'll take it to the Admin team for a decision. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 30 2007 at 12:08
I will... if Xover decides to reject after we decide a final yes or no vote on him.... he's been on hold for eval and reflection . ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: December 30 2007 at 15:17
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Prog-related would be good since Mr. Bowie did his share of both influencing prog and being influence by it.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: kiwi
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 23:09
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What was the outcome of this thread? Bowie certainly should appear here somewhere.
------------- We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah) music |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 01:33
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I don't know, most of his stuff is in the pop vein. Traditional structures and tempos, etc. His stuff from the 90's on was increasingly experimental, but still pop IMO. The proggiest thing he's done, in my mind, is "Space Oddity" but that's just one song... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 15:54
David Bowie is ...again... under evaluation for addition.... when his fate is decided... the word will be posted here ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 17:07
I have to say if Space Oddity is the most prog Bowie, you've heard, there's a lot better out there for you to check out. Of the newer stuff, you really must try Heathen. Outside is rather good too. If you let the '70's Low pass you by, shame on you! ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 20:23
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micky digs him some Station to Station and Low ( ^ ) ... pop?... my white pasty ass....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 03:41
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Low, Heroes, etc. are only about half-good to me and that half is the ambient part. The very first song from Heathen was good but the rest really wasn't up there. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 04:12
meaning? not sure if I ever reached listening to StS, I fell asleep somewhere along the 70s, after Ziggy Stardust... -------------
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Posted By: Hirgwath
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 08:22
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The All Music Guide thinks that Bowie was influenced by Pink Floyd, Syd Barret, and Kraftwerk. It also already has labeled him prog/art rock and experimental rock. Let's face it, "art rock" is practically synonymous with David Bowie. I don't listen to him much at all, but I figure he might deserve a spot in Related. We can all agree that Prog Related is not within the genre of prog rock. But it satisfies those who think he merits inclusion for historical links to the genre and because of his music's progressive characteristics. ------------- Skwisgaar Skwigelf: taller than a tree. Toki Wartooth: not a bumblebee. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 08:37
sort of makes putting him in 'related' as a first choice kind of silly then isn't it ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Hirgwath
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 09:19
Well, he also is labeled "glam rock", "pop rock", and "blue-eyed soul". It's not that simple. I'm going to shut up now, until I have a lot more knowledge about his actual music. ------------- Skwisgaar Skwigelf: taller than a tree. Toki Wartooth: not a bumblebee. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 09:29
^ that always helps . Give an artist a 40 year career that is worth anything and I suspect they might lots of tags.. unless you put the same sh*t out.. year after year after year. Then again..that is why Bowie is what he is... you can't slap a tag on him. It is as you say... not that simple. But if your base point is correct... the man IS Art Rock. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 14:08
I'm guessing I Took a Trip on a Gemini Spaceship was secretly your fave... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 03:26
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This post is just to bump the thread as I've closed this new one:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46862 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46862
As stated, the admin team will give Bowie consideration for Prog Related if anyone is proposing to the the actual addition.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 06:44
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as has been noted before.... Bowie is in the hands of the Xover team... and is under eval. If we pass... we'll send him to the admin team for PR consideration.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ten years after
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 07:59
| I would have thought Cygnet Committee from Space Oddity would, in itself, justify inclusion somewhere on PA. One of the greatest prog songs ever written. |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 08:21
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I agree that Bowie deserves a place here to be mentioned.
- Second album Space Oddity - prog psyche
- 1970-74 hard rock/glam with occassional prog folk elements (Hunky Dory)
- 1976-78 collaboration with Eno, Fripp, electronic/ambient prog
- 1980s only are pure pop IMO, but again with occassional arty approach
Prog-related at least.
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 10:41
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After consultation with mailto:M@x - M@x , David Bowie has been approved for addition as Prog Related.
If one of the prog teams decides to include him in their sub-genre, he can be moved when that decision is made.
Meanwhile, who is going to write the bio and add him? Teo?
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 10:56
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If needed I can write the Bio, just let me know if it's needed. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 11:50
| I'll tell Micky ,so he can chime in tonight and say if he wants to write the bio himself. I suppose he and Dean would like to have him moved to Xover, but that can come later. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 18:24
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or come now... Bowie has been accepted by Dean and I in Xover for some time now . but we sat on it until the forum was 'ready' for it. Gerald... TM me a bio of him, I'll be writing one and will PM one to you, and would like to run both by Dean who has a real sense of him as an artist and he'll Frankenstein it and add his own fhoughts. will credit all 3 of us for the addition/bio.... he's been my baby of sorts. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 18:31
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I support Bowie's induction to the prog archives hall of flame! I'll be glad to see him in. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 18:54
I initially started writing from a progrelated perspective, but I agree crossover prog suits him just fine.
I PM'd an initial start, needs reworking on several elements, I hope to have a full draft ready tomorow.
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 18:57
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excellent... starting mine this evening... how well the Capital's play the Flyers (hockey playoffs here) tonight depends on how much I get done hahhaha. Thanks.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 15 2008 at 19:02
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 16 2008 at 05:52
Wooo--hooo!! Congrats! Mr. Jones finally at home! ------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 16 2008 at 07:42
You do know this is going to cause an album review flood of epidemic proportions...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 16 2008 at 08:09
Yes. And a hypothetical inclusion of, let's say, Metallica would cause a deluge! Personally, I don't mind a few floods here and there, especially if caused by Bowie!  ------------- |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: April 16 2008 at 09:12
I thought Easy said that Bowie was approved for PR. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 16 2008 at 09:36
If you read his post again, Bob also said he could be moved later
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: April 16 2008 at 11:06
Ah, I didn't take that as sign it really would happen. Do you really think Bowie belongs in a full prog sub-grenre? ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 16:45
| I think it would be much better if he stayed on prog-related genre forever. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 16:48
Totally agree with that. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 17:22
| I would have thought first Psych/Space prog, but surely the most suitable would be Prog Related, even though I don't know his stuff. |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: May 06 2008 at 11:07
Also for me! -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 06 2008 at 14:53
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I'm not too familiar with David Bowie but I always considered him to be "art rock" based on hearsay.
Anyhow, I am listening to his Best of Bowie compilation album (US version since it appears he had many versions). I was just listening to the song Fashion, which didn't sound familiar to me, but while listening to it, it felt like it had a bit of a Crimson sound to it. Anyhow, I just checked on AllMusic and Robert Fripp is given a credit on David Bowie's Scary Monsters album. Did Robert just appear on that one song (I assume he was on that song) or did he play more on that album? ------------- 
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 06 2008 at 22:24
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Following career paths, I would say that Bowie's inclusion would justify Alice Cooper entry. The first two albums on Zappa's labels are proto-psych prog, the next 4 are full of concepts, story lines, extended multi-part compositions, all delivered with a theatricality that rivaled Peter Gabriel for character development. I await the deluge, and go back to the Coop's CDs to prepare my case. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: May 07 2008 at 10:08
 Not that I disagree with your argument, though. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 07 2008 at 14:07
Hmm, I just remembered I have to ask my wife if i can go out for a (ahem) few beers with the boys Saturday Night. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: ZowieZiggy
Date Posted: May 21 2008 at 13:14
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You might well read some reviews of mine about the man who sold the world and preferred the space oddity although he quite liked a China girl whose heroes were the thin white dukes.
It'll be fun, and maybe surprising... ------------- ZowieZiggy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 06:59
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just an update.. on some stuff that has played out privately. Bowie was accepted last fall for Xover.. but the team decided to sit on it till we thought the time was right. When Bowie was approved for PR.. we were called so to speak and had to put our cards on the table. However in light of both of the team members having vacations and...errr... other events around the forum... even that decision was sat on as well. Anyway to make a long story short. While the Xover team feels he is prog.. neither of us really feels that Xover IS a good fit in that sub-genre. As a wise poster, James (Salmacis) said in a different thread about Bowie.. he really IS in a class by himself and trying to pigeonhole him... would be an exercise in fulitly. Thus.. rather than pigeonhole him... we have decided that he is to be added in the broadest possible category... that being of course.. Prog Related hahhaha. Prog.. not prog.. doesn't really matter to much.. it is all personal perception of course. .but what matters is having him here because he does belong here. Anyway... work is being done on a bio for him and hopefully he'll be added in a week or two. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 10:47
Thanks for the update Micky.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 11:02
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no problem sir... figured the time was right to finally move forward with the addition ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:43
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added to Prog Related.
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3790 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3790 ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:49
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and adding albums as we speak....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |