Cannot get into King Crimson
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40871
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Topic: Cannot get into King Crimson
Posted By: ian picken
Subject: Cannot get into King Crimson
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 11:29
I love Tool, Rush, Yes,Porcupine Tree, Pallas, ect. but i cannot get into King Crimson. 
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Replies:
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 11:32
| What have you tried? |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 11:33
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it's not mandatory to like them ;P but they are quite different from the bands you mentioned unless you count Tool's direct influence from Red and the modern albums
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: dave-the-rave
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 11:40
| FWIW, I find that I respect and admire KC more than I really enjoy their music. 'Easy Listening' it's not. |
Posted By: Firefly
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 11:50
| Try: USA. Maybe that's more up your alley... |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:20
I remember when the only KC I heard at the time was ItCotCK, I went to the cd shop and sampled a used copy of "Beat".... you can imagine my surprise; I almost gave up on the band.... but then I tried Starless and Bible Black...... That band has been through so many lineup/ sound changes.... there's got to be at least one era of KC that you could find palatable. What era have you tried? (Oh and I actually love "Beat" nowdays....) |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:22
If you like Tool you should try out KC's The Power to Believe album. -------------  |
ian picken wrote:Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:26
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I definitely have to be in a certain mood for them. The Power To Believe, however, is an amazing disc. E ------------- 
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:38
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i find their debut is the best to start off thats a lot of easy listening songs on their like i talk to the wind and epitaph ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:39
Blasphemy!!! sacrilege!!!This is an unforgivable crime!!!
 You are NOT allowed not to like KC.Serious punishments are in order . I am gonna talk with all the KC brothers from this site and decide about your trial date and your very foreseeable bleak future
 Seriously, There are so many differents styles and so many different line-ups, one should at least please you. Just give time to time and try again and the light will appear because the light is bright when you get it!
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Posted By: Ripples
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:51
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70s - Try - Red.
80s - Try - Discipline. Later period - Try - Power to Believe. |
Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 13:04
| Thanks for all your help, i have tried Court of the....and Beat... i will investigate the cds you have all recomended. Thanks again. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 13:24
| You might want to try something from different eras of their career, their music really changes a lot over the years from symphonic prog to metal-jazz fusion to world beat and many other styles. You can listen to 2 of their albums back to back and not know its the same band, although I suppose Fripp's unique guitar style always comes through. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 14:51
| What is it you don't like about what you have heard IP? |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 14:51
| Before giving up on them, you must try Larks Tongues In Aspic. If you like this you will most definitely like Red and Starless and Bible Black. Next you should try Lizard. If you like Lizard you should also like Islands. Since you already tried In The Court Of The Crimson King you probably won't like In The Wake Of Posieden, though I think it's great. Next I'd go with THe Power To Believe. If you like this you will like Thrak and THe Construction of Light. Since you don't like Beat, you probably won't like Discipline or Three of a Perfect Pair. Each of the different groups of albums I layed out have a very different unique sound. This is whats so great and progressive about Crimson. |
Posted By: FranMuzak
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 16:40
| I agree with the others that said The Power To Believe would be the one to hook you to KC. Then you can go backwards into their discography. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 16:48
You're not the only one, except ITCOTCK and Red, I can't get into King Crimson, I can't understand Lark's Tongues in Aspic and the albums from the double power trio era sound like pure cacophony to me.
And I tried.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 16:49
| its not that i dont like them, i respect them as musicians and for what they have done for prog, its just i cant get that hook out of the music that you need to get into a band. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:01
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Same for me...I've tried hard but they leave me cold. Gentle Giant and Tull too.... |
Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:08
| How weird... i am the same, not keen on g. giant or j. tull. |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:13
| You can't force yourself to like bands just because they are popular on the site. At least you don't go around saying that KC sucks just because you don't like them (*cough*DT haters *cough*) |
Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:16
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Blasphemy, not liking Gentle Giant as well?
Try as the others said, The Power To Believe. And give Octopus from Gentle Giant a chance.
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Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:27
| i will give them a try..... thanks.. what makes them worth getting in your opinion???? |
Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:33
Indeed right. Rush is one of the big ten and I cannot get into them. But King Crimson, let's face it, they're an exceptional case.... They are out of the average prog band, not because they're better or something like that, it's IMO due to their musical conception. It's like trying to get into Frank Zappa... that's not easy. So, you suppose to not be the only dude who can't get into KC.... that sounds logic. But if you're looking for reccomendations, I'd say...... mm..... Red! Do not try the newest stuff (say Power to Believe or THRAK) before trying something older, about the Wetton era. ------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:35
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I have many CDs from KC, mostly because I have the affliction of many prog fans in that I can't hear the prog music on the radio so I go out and buy the CDs. KC and JT are the two bands from the originial Big 7 Prog bands that I like, but haven't been able to fully embrace. I don't have this issue with the other 5 original Big 7 prog bands: Rush; Yes; Pink Floyd; ELP; and Genesis. (The choice of the Big 7 is not my own, but from other Forum threads and it wasn't my intention to open that can of worms here again). On this previously mentioned thread, Gentle Giant and VDGG are also frequently mentioned as being part of the big 7 instead of other bands that are not liked by those individuals. I think that Gentle Giant is an acquired tasted (pun intended Acquiring the Taste). I thought that they were just OK upon my first few listens, but they have grown on me and I think they are good. On the other hand, at this point, I just can't seem to get in to VDGG. I suppose that it is probably another acquired taste. ------------- 
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Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:38
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The King Crimson one is a bit easier to get into than Red for example. But still with all the ingredients that make King Crimson unique.
Ah, and Octopus, superb musicianship, great songwriting, they have a unique sound and the whole album has a very good feel to it.
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Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:41
| sircosick, apart from yes, genesis, rush, tull, elp, k crim, and p floyd, who are the rest of the big 10....???? |
Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:45
^ No matter...... say big seven  But don't dismiss some bands so easily.... for me, Gentle Giant must replace ELP, and Frank Zappa also should take a place there. Then, you could speak about a big ten  ------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:49
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I feel so special, I get into absolutely everything
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 17:57
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^ Pretty much the same here, except for cheesy power-metal, which you understand ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:09
It's not that I don't get it, I just don't like it. Same with punk and rap: I perfectly understand the appeal, it's just not to my taste. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:13
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I like punk and some rap, but I agree that it's not my favorite music to be honest. At least that's better than being totally close-minded to other music ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:13
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It's ok, I bet everyone hates a popular prog band on here.
For me, Tool. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:16
I don't The only ones I can think of are Kansas and Symphony X but I've never said that I "hate" them(I don't) or that they suck. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:18
and I am a big fan (read fanboy) of Rush and Porcupine Tree too!!! |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:20
"You're special, just like everyone else"  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:42
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Tony R...i have read your page and see that you like Arena, i have heard a few of their songs with mixed feelings, what cds do you recommend and why?? thanks....
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Posted By: Inks
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:59
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Can't get into King Crimson? Well, the 4 that i will recommend are In The Court of the Crimson King (symphonic era) Red (Metal/Jazz) Discipline (Pop, Math Rock) and..... The Power to Believe (New age Metal) Now i will also like to add that i'm generalizing here, as i don't believe any of these albums can be put into one simple sub-genre. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 20:53
Uh man... your life must be sh*t  ajajaja  ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 21:41
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Another option is to pick up one of the 21st Century Guides to KC. You'll get to sample some of the more accessible songs from the various incarnations of the band. There's also a condensed two CD version -- cheaper -- which might provide direction for further exploration.
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 02:28
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One doesn't get "into" King Crimson , King Crimson must get "into" you
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 03:24
| IP, Re Arena. "The visitor" would be a great place to start with them. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 04:22
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I used to like them (though they were never my favourites) but I have gone off them and now rarely listen to them. I tried a few months back but they left me cold.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 04:29
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You're having trouble getting into King Crimson? Oh, Fripp's having auditions?!? Too cool!
BOB! BOBBY!!! BOB-BEE!!! I can play a mean ukelele! Dude, let me backstage, I know Mr. Crimson! ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 05:37
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Yeah stuff like Lizard and Larks toungs in aspic isent exactly easy to get into but when you do you will get your reward. And i have yet to find a band or artist i cant get into. ------------- 
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Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 06:19
Not surprised those bands except yes are more rock oriented than prog oriented. ------------- 
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Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 05:18
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As a life long progger, I bought itCotKC and Red on vinyl some 20+ years ago. I played them but a couple of times and didn't get it at all, although I prefer the former, and enjoy it's title track when I hear it on the radio (Arrow Classic Rock). Maybe it's time to give them another listen.
Personally, I have a serious problem with ELP. (maybe it's Lake?) ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 05:21
And this is what I've always said; for something so "exclusive," prog has made me very accepting. If you had approached me a few years ago and told me I would be listening to a band that wrote exceedingly long songs, had no guitar or bass, and the vocalist usually sounded like he had a ferret up his ass, I would have laughed. Why would I find a guitar and bass important in the first place?
To date, I cannot think of a single band that I absolutely despise...well, at least, an "intelligent" band that I absolutely despise. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 16:10
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We`ve got to try and get this guy some help man. This is a sad and tragic condition. I`m listening to Islands right now. Get Islands. It`s not up there on most crimhead`s list but has always been up there on mine.
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 18:25
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/\ Love Islands, and its probobly a good start when you think about it its not that complex its pretty sweet and balladish most of the time, but i love all the 70s crimson albums, Larks toung where no doubt the one i hade most trouble with i bought it as my second crimson album after "In the court" and was not ready at all for sutch a change. But if you give it some time and dont give up you allways get it sooner or later, thats my experience. -------------
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 18:33
Except for "Van der Hammill" then?  -------------
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Posted By: Sunhillow_
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 18:39
| Depending of what kind of Progressive Rock you prefer... The 80's albums like Discipline are not that complicated and could be a good start, but it 's very different from the 70's records. If you are easy with something more simphonic maybe you should start with the Lizard album. If you prefer something a little more basic/heavy pick the album Red. Good luck and have a great pleasure listening to all this good music. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 18:46
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I hesitate recommending "Lizard" because of Gordon Haskell's godawful 'vocals', which spoil what is a musically great album. I wouldn't certainly recommend starting with "Starless and Bible Black" - way too harsh and dissonant. As Sunhillow said, I think "Discipline" could be a good introduction to the band, though of course it's quite different from their Seventies output. Anyway (and I'm speaking as a major KC fan), it's not really compulsory to like a band just because it's one of the 'founding fathers' of prog. I'm not particularly into Genesis, though obviously I know most of their output - but that doesn't worry me at all. We're all entitled to our tastes, thank heavens! |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 20:46
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Thank god for individuality....not evetone can like every band....honesty is a good thing......me i hate Dream Theater...utter nonsense....let us all be individuals and like what we want...and not be forced into music we dislike. ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 20:56
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^ He's not being forced: he's asking for recommendations for a band he can't get into, not that he dislikes.
------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: August 16 2007 at 21:16
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Not into King Crimson? You lose 50,000 prog credits and must do 500 pushups, with one arm, while we all sit on your back....listening to Starless and Bible Black. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 03:23
Frip knew about that problem. When I was in 70' trying to get into KC I bought this double album specially prepared by Mr. Fripp.
A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson
TracksCollection album with scrapbook. All tracks previously released except "I Talk to the Wind" recorded "in the front room at 93a Brondesbury Rd., London NW6, July 1968 on a 2nd hand Revox manipulated by Peter Giles".
I don't know is it available on CD, but according to the list one can make own compilation. Enjoy!
P:S I would add 21 century and Circus to that list
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http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Image:Ypgback.jpg">
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 05:19
I totally had that. And the version of "I talk to the Wind" had a female singer, right? ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 06:14
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Brilliant at times but usually inconsistent will be their epitaph
Never quite lived up to their expectations ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 11:15
Dude, if you play electric ukelele...you're a shoe-in!!!!!!------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 11:19
As far as I know, the song was first written for Judy Dyble, the original vocalist of Fairport Convention. |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 06:00
Yep!
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 13:36
| I can't |
Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 16:19
| They lacked a decent song writer after Wetton left! After 'RED' their output was sub-par! |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 17:02
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Posted By: Fight Club
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 18:18
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Some of their stuff is really great and some just isn't. They are the best and worst of prog. ITCOTCK is great in my opinion, but then some of their albums just get too technical and disregard any actual songwriting. They're just one of those bands. ------------- 
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Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 18:33
Agreed! All that dissonance stuff is just noise, like an orchestra tuning their instruments!
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Posted By: Fight Club
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 18:36
Yeah, IMO stuff like that is just pointless. People like it because they think it's being unique or something. I really don't know. But I think it's more unique and skillfull to find a band that can take all their knowledge and incorporate it into actual good songs. Some KC albums do this very well and other don't! -------------
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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:22
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The band uses to leave the impression if they're make music for themselves and not for people. It's just an option, as valid as any other. Fripp is a genius, nobody can doubt it, and what he likes to do with his music logically doesn't always fit with our tastes; evidently there are a lot of people who can understand this musical conception. Apparently you (^^) aren't one of those. And it doesn't mean you're wrong or something.
------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:27
Fripp a genius, that's an exageration if ever i've heard one
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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:36
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If you don't reckon Fripp's a genious (as there's a lot in prog), you're far from get into his music. ------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: Morbix
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:43
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I seem to be experiencing the same issue, but on a wider scale....I simply do not like the 70s prog. It is very placid and boring to me. KC, Yes, Tull, GG, Genesis, nothing appeals. Am I now to be struck down with malicious cancer? ------------- Take everything in moderation, including moderation. 
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:46
| Dissonance, you say? Could someone tell me about that? I always found them amazingly boring (with the exception of Shizoid Man, and yes, I have heard the samples from the '70s period. It's the same thing over and over again!), but perhaps I will like that since I enjoy the avant-garde and improvisation (but not minimalism. I know, it's weird). |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:47
Dont worry, there is 70's prog outside that!!!!! Try Itallian Symphonic, Krautrock, VDGG, even Magma might intrest you, oh and judging by your avitar you might like Hawkwind ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 21:50
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King Crimson have lost some of their brilliance in my eyes, but I still like all periods of music from them. I'd suggest The Power to Believe. The 70s efforts sound very "of their time" nowadays.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 22:13
| Morbix, while I might expect that from a C&C fan ;-), there's a lot more to the '70s than that. I suggest Frank Zappa (there's a lot more to avant than him and my suggestions, though), Samla Mammas Manna, and Captain Beefheart from avant, Amon Duul II, Can, and Faust from Krautrock (in that order), and I don't know much about Jazz-rock, Italian, or Zeuhl, but there's a lot of good stuff there. |
Posted By: meinmatrix
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:27
Hi Ian, for me the key for getting into King Crimson has been their magnificent live albums: USA The Great Deceiver Absent Lovers The N i g h t w a t c h (funny how word filter tries to change this album name) You can't go wrong with these if you can find them from your local recordshop. King Crimson is a live band per se. ------------- 
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Posted By: Morbix
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 09:31
What is that supposed to mean. ------------- Take everything in moderation, including moderation.
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 12:50
Seeing you like CC and Tool, i whuld sugest Amon Duul 2 - Yeti. And from KC you need try Red before giving up on em. -------------
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Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 15:30
Excellent suggestions! I especially applaud The Night**tch. That is a great live album from a grand era in the history of KC.
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Posted By: raindance
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:34
| NEITHER CAN I! |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 03:32
Where is Earthbond my friend?
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 03:40
you're forgetting the third option - people like me who don't care about musicianship but who get a great deal out of intentionally dissonant and hard music. I don't quite know why KC alone have this sort of reputation, although maybe it's because they're the most "demanding" of the high-profile bands. You do make it sound like KC are contrary just to annoy their audience (Fripp does like to challenge but I don't think he tries to ruin his own shows) when in reality they suit their tastes perfectly. To me, ITCOTCK is one of the less essential KC albums - the Great Deceiver box and half of each of the two most recent releases are "my" KC sound. (I also like Lizard but that's for different reasons - it's a great jazzy symphonic album and hasn't got bloody Greg Lake on it!) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |