The problem is not the diacritic signs themselves. Some of the diacritic signs are recognised by the system. But there are some other sighs, doesn't matter whether they contain diacritic signs or they don't, which get coded by the system. So far I (personally) had those problems with some Polish diacritics and with Cyrillic letters.

 

Well, both Uwe and Julian:

 

First of all, yes, this is what I mean -- a transliteration, with a possibility to add the English translation in brackets.

 

Of course, in principle it might be fine to mantain the original language and alphabet, but it seems to cause some serious problems. And, remember, there are some albums in Hebrew here in PA -- can you imagine them to be displayed also in letters of the Hebrew alphabet?

 

And I still wonder how The Miracle managed to type the Aquarium titles in both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets, quite miracuously (pun intended).

 

As for the someone who is familiar with Cyrillic -- well, you have a certain F. in the Errors & Omission Team. He is quite familiar with Russian...

 

Eugene

 

By the way, "Fasten seat belts" is "Пристегните привязные ремни" (or simply "Пристегните ремни") rather than "Прикрепите поясы безопасности".

 

I remember how I tried to change the title of an Asia album, called smth. like Live in Moscow, but with the name of the city written in Russian -- МОСКВА (all letters are in upper case), as it appears on the album cover. I typed it (or, maybe, I added those letter from the Character Map -- the way I usually use to add diacriticised letters), but they got encoded into some unlegible signs after the editing, like those in the Avtograf discography.

 

I see  Ìîñêâà: Live Russia(Live, 1990) .

 

What do you see?

 

And I only replaced "Mockba" with "Москва".

 

 

 

Now, compare please the main page of Autograf: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2335 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2335  with some unlegible signs in the album titles ( 25 ëåò ñïóñòÿ. Þáèëåéíûé êîíöåðò / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert(Live, 2005) , for example)

 

with this: 25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (copied from the editing area).

 

Even if one doesn't understand Russian (s)he can easily tell the normal (though unfamiliar) alphaber from some encoded signs.

 

 

But if you'll go to the Aquarium main page, you'll see quite legible titles: День Серебра [Day Of Silver] (Studio Album, 1984) , for example. It doesn't differ from what appears in the editing area.

 

That's why I wondered how did The Miracle manage to insert Cyrillic letters without their fatal encoding after the updating.

 

 

To crown it all, look at this:

 

That's how a certain group is displayed in the PA pages: ÄLGARNAS TRÄDGÅRD.

 

And that's how I see it in the editing area: Дlgarnas Trдdgеrd.

(A single example of the hundreds of similar encoding).

 

 

First of all, I doubt Julian sees those encoded signs when he's situated in the editing area. I'm almost sure that he sees all the titles written properly.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he never had troubles like those I usually have. But I don't know what will be the result if he inserts some Cyrillic characters (for example, if he adds the title "Москва" (written in Cyrillic letters)).

 

Then enter the editing area and try to insert Москва instead of Ìîñêâà.

 

What the result is?

 

Hence, I think that the problem is not in the procedure (assuming that Julian uses the same procedure), but in my computer.

 

If this is really the case, I should avoid editing problematic pages (fortunately, most non-plain Latin characters (diacriticised letters) are displayed properly after my editing).

 

Eugene

Conclusion I: Babel Fish translation shouln't be used.

 

2. First of all, we should decide what do we prefer -- original Russian text, transliteration, or English translation.

 

2a. The way to obtain correct Russian titles is either to ask the album submitter (I don't own any of those albums) or to find them via Internet.

 

2b. I can easily make transliteration, but, then again, I need to have the correct titles in Russian. I wouldn't like to translate titles from English to Russian, since the result will be, perhaps, more satisfactory than through Babel Fish, but still not fully acceptable.

 

Conclusion II: Anyway, we need original titles in Russian.

 

I'll copy them here. If they are dislayed correctly -- fine, they may be added (as they are or transliterated). If they are not displayed correctly, I'll transliterate them.

 

1. Пристегните Ремни Безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 Лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Цепочка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчерашний День / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ночь / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Марсианские Хроники I / Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Возвращение II / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старинная Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)

 

The title of the album is: Autograf 1 / Автограф 1980-82.

 

Your word?

 

25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (CD)

 

CD 1: 45:23
1. Интро / Intro
2. Вчерашний день / The Day Before
3. Пристегните ремни безопасности / Clip Safety Belts
4. Ливень / Cloud-burst
5. Город / City
6. Монолог / Monologue
7. Странник / Pilgrim
8. Время, вперед / Time, Forward!
9. Реквием (памяти Джона Леннона) / Requiem (To The Memory of John Lennon)

CD 2: 58.50
1. Марсианские хроники / Martian Chronicles, Intro
2. 2000 лет / 2000 Years
3. Облака / Clouds
4. S.O.S
5. Камень / Stone
6. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland. Olster
7. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues “Caprice”
8. Головокружение / Dizziness
9. О, мой мальчик / Oh, My Boy
10. Корабль / Ship
11. Мир в себе / The World In Ourselves

Total Time: 104:13

 

 

25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (DVD)

 

1. Интро / Intro
2. Вчерашний день / The Day Before
3. Пристегните ремни безопасности / Clip Safety Belts
4. Ливень / Cloud-burst
5. Город / City
6. Монолог / Monologue
7. Странник / Pilgrim
8. Время, вперед / Time, Forward!
9. Реквием (памяти Джона Леннона) / Requiem (To The Memory of John Lennon)
10. Марсианские хроники / Martian Chronicles, Intro
11. 2000 лет / 2000 Years
12. Облака / Clouds
13. S.O.S
14. Камень / Stone
15. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland. Olster
16. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues “Caprice”
17. Головокружение / Dizziness
18. О, мой мальчик / Oh, My Boy
19. Корабль / Ship
20. Мир в себе / The World In Ourselves

Total Time: 118 min.

 

may be replaced by Autograph / Автограф

 

 

 

Also, the very name of the band at the bands page may be changed from the current

AUTOGRAPH (AVTOGRAF /AUTOGRAF) to Autograph (Автограф)

Here are two albums' track-lists with original titles in Russian and transliterations (transliterations are mine):

 

Каменный Край / Kamennyj Kraj

 

1. Город (Gorod)

2. О, Мой Мальчик (O, Moj Mal'chik)

3. Я Люблю (Ja L'ubl'u)

4. Странник (Strannik)

5. Казенный Демон (Kaz'ennyj Demon)

6. Колокол (Kolokol)

7. Мастер (Master)

8. Камень (Kamen')

9. Амур (Amur) (bonus track)

10. Мир В Себе (Mir V Sebe) (bonus track)

 

Autograph / Автограф

 

1. S.O.S.

2. Реквием (Памяти Джона Леннона) (Rekviem (Pam'ati Dzhona Lennona)

3. Истина (Istina)

4. Монолог (Monolog)

5. Нам Нужен Мир (Nam Nuzhen Mir)

 

 

 

Apart from that, I've added the website of the group. It is the unofficial one, but I suspect there might not be an official site at all, so, it's better than nothing.

Not too great, Uwe -- just a simple copying / pasting.

 

I know about the differences. "Olster" is, apparently, misspelling. (Also, there's a period instead of a comma in the English translation of this track).

 

As for the other tracks -- I think there's a little relevance of them, if at all. Maybe, as Julian has pointed out, we don't need those translations at all, transliterations are enough?

 

The only problem is that those English translations are not exactly known -- I think that there is no official source of those translations accepted by everyone. Therefore translations may differ.

 

Now the question is: do we want consistency in translations? If we do, we need to choose one single variant for each title.

 

Compare with groups / albums / tracks from other languages. None of them is translated. Hence, the Russian ones must not to be translated either. However, they should be transliterated, in order to provide their legibility.

 

As for work -- how many USSR / post-USSR do we have?

 

By the way, in case of Автограф, Autograph is the translation and Avtograf is the transliteration, so, there is no need for Autograf, at least. In my opinion.

 

If we decide that there is no need in translations at all, we'll keep it as Автограф (Avtograf) (or Avtograf (Автограф), depending on the default order of languages / alphabets).

 

If we decide to keep translations too, we'll have Автограф (Avtograf / Autograph).

 

 

By the way, the group's name in Russian when written in upper case letters looks like АВТОГРАФ.

 

1. Yes, we might have some problems (maybe, very serious or even impossible to solve problems) with Japanese, Chinese, and Arabic titles. If the characters of the corresponding alphabets aren't maintained by the system, they will be impossible to be displayed. Remember, however, that not every Arabic or Chinese group's name should be written in an original form, but only those, who actually have this form written on the covers of the albums.

 

So, there are reasons to keep only the transliterated forms as a standard.

 

2. On the other hand, pedantically speaking, many non-English titles are not transliterated, but remain in their original form. For example, ÄLGARNAS TRÄDGÅRD is the original form, and ALGARNAS TRADGARD is the transliteration. If we want to keep transliteration form only, we should keep the latter title and erase the former. But we definitely wouldn't like such a state.

 

3. So, maybe, there is a need for a compromise -- original titles should remain.

-  a. In case of their relatively easy legibility they don't need any transliteration beside (all the languages using the Latin alphabet with some additional diacriticised letters).

-  b. In case of their legibility only for those who are familiar with the relevant languages, but still the characters of those alphabets are maintained by the system, titles should appear in their original form with a transliteration beside (in brackets). This applies to Cyrillic and Hebrew alphabets, at least (Hebrew letters are possible to be seen, aren't they?)

-  c. In case of total impossibility to read the original titles (the system doesn't recognise them and encrypts them) only transliterated form should appear. This might apply to Japanese and Chinese titles.

 

 

This does not contradict the point 3. from my previous post.

 

No-one needs to know how to pronounce Автограф. Write the transliterated form first, then add the original form in brackets. For example, Avtograf (Автограф), or Tamouz (תמוז) (by the way, is the latter name in brackets readable?).