Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
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Topic: Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
Posted By: The T
Subject: Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 23:35
| Why don't many old proggers like (or why do you hate) The Flower Kings so much? They are wonderful...Maybe they didn't invented it, maybe they had a lot of influence by Yes, but thay have their unique sound (now that i've heard all Yes records, all genesis records, most ELp, GentleG records, couple by Camel) I can see that THEY DO HAVE their unique sound... and they are great!! I saw them playing live 3 weeks ago...Stolt is a genius.... They have one of the better technically speaking rhythm section (Reingold, Lillequist) in all of today's prog.... they have mammoth songs but full of melody and still with some ROCk in their prog-ROCk....yes, sometimes they kind of suffer from what I call elephantism (4 double cds, each with more than 130 minutes of music, with a lot of 20+ minutes songs), but other than that, they are marvelous....They are, in this day and age, the only SYMPHONIC rock ala Yes that sti;ll survives and carries that torch with pride... |
Replies:
Posted By: Yito
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 00:21
I'm with you "The T", The Flower Kings is one of my favorite bands and i don't understand why they don't have good recognition in the prog world.
 Stolt rocksˇˇˇ------------- Psalm 96 1 Sing to the LORD a new song; sing to the LORD, all the earth. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 00:22
| yeah, that's the attitude... |
Posted By: soundsweird
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 00:25
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1. I don't like singers who sound like dozens of other singers. 2. Let's say there are two people listening to a Flower Kings album. One is 53 years old, has been listening to prog (as well as other types of rock) since he was a kid, has been playing music since the late 60's, etc. The other is 25 or 30 years old. Over the years, the old guy has heard the keyboard sound on the album hundreds of times on other albums, the drumming style hundreds of times on other albums, the guitar chords, similar lyrics.... you get the idea. The younger guy hears the same album, and it all sounds fresh and new. This raises the question: is it plagiarism (and I'm not saying the Flower Kings have ever engaged in that; this is just a general observation I've made about recent rock music) if the listener has never heard the original song that has been copied? And what if the new band has never heard the music that they've managed to replicate? I always tell would-be composers to listen to as much music as possible, since that will reduce the chances that they'll end up duplicating what's already been done. Sorry to go off-topic there, I just wanted to get that off my chest; it has nothing to do with the Flower Kings.  |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 00:58
I love the flower kings , I listen to them all the time and get so much enjoyment from them , I don`t care what anybody else thinks I love em. 
------------- |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 00:59
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You are somewhat right...but....two points:
1. Isn't this more of the pretensiousness they accuse prog-rockers of having, actually believing that Genesis, Yes, Tull, Crimson, were so out of this earth original? Let me explain: Yes, they were INCREDIBLY original, for they created a new genre, its foundations....but to say they were 100% new... they, too, learned form somebody... they DIDn't invent rock, that's for sure, and, isn't rock a part of their sound, too? MAny, MANy of their ideas are straight translations of jazz and classical works, subtly camouflaged, too... so, pure originality? No... Man, even Bach learned and even copied at times from Vivaldi, Beethoven from Mozart, Haydn, these two fro the Eisenach master.... so MUSIC is a perpetual copy-work (it was Handel or Bach or some other grandiose master who said something in that vein).... Please...
2. A year ago, your argument would've silenced me.... but since then i've bought every Yes record, every genesis record (but the poppy ones), more than 3 each from Tull, Crimson, Giant, VDGG, Pink floyd, ELP, and I still can't find one where I can say: "man, The Flower Kings sound exactly like that". They may sound like amixture of some of those but with their own UNIQUE sound, too. That's music, being influenced but adding your own ideas into the mix.... So, please tell me, for I still haven't heard EVERY classic prog album, where's the one that will make me cry "PLAGIARISM, UOU SWEDES!!"
But, anyway, good answer.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 01:50
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I am 49 years old and I hardly listen to "modern prog", despite I have a few records . I owe one from The Flower Kings ( Space Revolver ) and it is one of few I enjoy and listen regularly . In the end, the answer is always the same: everything is just a matter of taste. What is hard for me to understand is: all the negative things some people say about TFK can be said about most bands nowadays, even the ones which are the so easily worshipped. It is clear there are some people who really hate the band with passion and are very active showing it ( a bit like what happens with ELP ) but, really, the reasons given are commonplaces and don't justify such a hate.
Greetings.
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Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 02:08
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Far too easy to call something copied or plagiarised when it is merely influenced. No group on the Archives (with the possible exception of Starcastle) has plagiarised to the extent Led Zeppelin did. What made Zep's theft worse was they stole from black musicians who hadn't made much from the industry.
So - yes, The Flower Kings have been influenced by other progressive acts. So what? I'm 45 and have heard it all. I refuse to miss a chance to enjoy something just because someone tells me it's not original. I think 'Stardust We Are' is one of the very best epic songs ever written. I can imagine listeners to Beethoven's first public performance getting up and leaving. Pah! He's using the same sounds as Bach! Look, he's using violins! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 02:15
What does age have to do with what music you've heard? The only obvious difference between a 60 years old and a 30 years old person is that they perceive the "classic" bands (or indeed any music they hear) differently. The older person "was there", and may have a more authentic view on the classic bands ... but on the other hand that person might be biased towards them, as they represent their youth. The young person on the other hand may never be able to grasp the feeling of the 70s ... but on the other hand they can hear the new music of the 90s without any preconceptions about how prog should sound like. BTW: Roine Stolt was an active musician in the 70s, let's not forget that ... they're hardly a "young" band. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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soundsweird wrote:Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 02:37
| Yes, Kaipa, you're right. he was almost there... |
Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 02:52
 ------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 03:32
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The Flower Kings are my favorite band of all time, and I'm into tons of diverse stuff. I completely appreciate classic prog on so many levels, and it's -because- of that I can appreciate TFK's innovations. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 04:15
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i don't like them. i find their stuff technically good but boring, hackneyed
and dated. it leaves me completely cold. at age 37, thus being the "neo prog" generation, so to speak, i guess i have just moved on. saw roine stolt with transatlantic five years ago and the guy's arrogant "headmaster of prog lecturing the ignorant" stance on stage plus some of the stuff he says in interviews completely turns me off. compared to him steve howe comes across like johnny ramone (R.I.P.)! mind you, sitting down with him over a beer and a chat is probably a good experience --- ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:03
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Hi the T,
I've been enjoying symphonic prog since 1975, and I'm very glad that bands such as the Flower Kings exist. Even though they are often derivative, I admire the fact that they are trying to (re-)create the thrills that only prog can give you. Some of their pieces, 'Stardust we are', for example, I find really exciting. But let's try to find an honest way to answer your question. One thing that often irritates me about TFK is their lyrics, and the way they are sung. As far as I can tell, most of their lyrics are full of echoes from old Yes and Genesis material, used in a rather inept way. Try as he might, Roine Stolt just isn't Peter Gabriel. Part of the problem is that he's not a native speaker of English. Part is that he keeps spouting the most annoying flower power nonsense. As for his singing, at first I was impressed by his voice (Wow, someone who sounds like John Wetton!) and I can imagine that he carries you away when you see him live. But on CD his never-ending ENTHUSIASM quickly gets on my nerves. (I've got exactly the same problem with Neal Morse.) Some moderation (and a hired lyricist) might do TFK good. I understand you're a huge fan, so please don't feel offended by this. You asked the question, and I tried to answer it. Meanwhile, I'm definitely going to keep watching TFK's career! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:14
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Iguana said:
"saw roine stolt with transatlantic five years ago and the guy's arrogant
"headmaster of prog lecturing the ignorant" stance on stage plus some of the stuff he says in interviews completely turns me off. " Well, talking about arrogance and acting as a headmaster etc.... what about Mr. Fripp ???
That's not a reason to like/hate the music.l
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Posted By: lovecraft
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:45
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They are just outrageously cheesy.
It hurts me to listen to them....I physically recoil at the thought.
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Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:48
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Well, talking about arrogance and acting as a headmaster etc.... what about Mr. Fripp ???
That's not a reason to like/hate the music.l [/QUOTE]
probably not ––– but el frippo is a true originator and still a visionary artist who pushes boundaries and has done more than enough to reinvent the way the guitar is played. one certainly cannot say that about mr. stolt, although he is by all means a gifted player. but what is the point? i'm sorry, but playing relatively mundane guitar and acting like it is manna from above does in fact influence my opinion on the music. ah, mustn't grumble, let's not dwell on that... good on yer, roine, keep playing, because after all it is important that this is kind of music is played! ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 06:23
| I just don't like them(as well as Spock's Beard),they're pretty boring and each album sound almost the same as others.There are hundreds of other Retro-Prog bands which are more talented and less PRed - Matthew Parmenter's DISCIPLINE, SINKADUS, SIMON SAYS etc |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 06:44
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I really liked 'Paradox Hotel' which saw a far, far greater focus than any previous album of theirs I owned, even though it's a double. I don't take to 'The Rainmaker' or even less 'Unfold The Future'- they are full of long, long jazzy ambles that just don't register in my memory bank no matter how much I play them.
And there's the rub. For me it's not the lyrics (which were never the genre's strong point for many old bands either) or the fact they are very derivative. I personally think their whole career can be summed up by two albums- TFTO and 'Focus III'. Both Yes and Focus are obvious influences but it's those two albums with all their slothfulness that seem to form the basis of The Flower Kings sound. That issue aside, myself I very much like that 70s style of symphonic prog. (I however would have rather turned to the 80s neo prog bands than either these or Spock's Beard.) The biggest problem for me was always the songwriting- there's too few hooks to latch upon and too much noodling. I love solos but not gratuitous ones. And it's THIS band, more than any other of the symphonic acts then and now, that have songs that exist solely for soloing. Most of their albums seem to have long winded, almost jam like instrumentals that don't show great skill to me but rather a sheer lack of quality control, imho. |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:29
| Fascinating. Some people speak as though not to be original is a crime. I reserve no special respect for innovators: the vast majority of so-called 'original' stuff is awful, doomed to die, just like the vast majority of mutations in the natural world. Occasionally something sticks and we all copy it, and improve upon the original. I'd honestly rather listen to the copies, which are almost invariably better than the original. Or perhaps humans should have stayed exactly as they were when the first one dropped out of the tree? |
Posted By: eddietrooper
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:35
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They are a very good and enjoyable band. Their albums are not masterpieces, though, and they would be better if they selected better their stuff and make single disc albums instead of double albums full of overlong jamming.
But I quite enjoy them. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:46
  Aaron replied before I did, so I will have to be careful not saying they stunk live 
The main reason why I do not appreciate TFK as some other retro-prog groups is that on the few albums I heard every single second sounds borrowed from other groups. In Retropolis or Stardust, Stolte sounded like Wetton and the group was making constant references to ancient group (Retropolis track to sub-ELP, the next two as sub-UK etc....). TFK also does long tracks foir the sake of making long tracks and would gain much more by being more concise.
Not that "Angladöten" are that much different in making references to ancient groups, but Anglagard mixed Yes, Genesis, Crimson within one minute (not one group per full track, as TFK does) and if Crimson is the main Anekdoten influence, they are much more than that.
And I have much less compassion for double offenders like Sinkadus and Wobbler which are retro-retro-prog
BTW, I have a more leniant attitude for Spock's Beard, although I find that they share many flaws of TFK, but not the endless meanderings. (actually this was one of my bigger complaint from their third, fourth and fifth album: no longer tracks.) and SB gives a good concert
 ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:49
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^ I saw both in concert - The Flower Kings delivered a musically flawless gig but lacked emotion a *little* bit, SB were very enthusiastic and emotional but a *tiny* but less awesome musically. I would recommend both bands without any hesitation!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 08:03
This SB concert was before of after Morse left them?
He was a big part of their live show. Haven't seen them since he left. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 08:13
^ after, unfortunately ... I would have loved to see the original SB on stage. But they're doing great without him, and they played many of the classics, including Go the Way You Go, The Doorway and The Light.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 09:51
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PA is chock full of Godspeed you Black Emperor and other post rock lovers but no one ever bashes them. And there are other non-melodic, less mainstream genres that you hear praised but rarely bashed. I hate post rock and a lot of Krautrock and other goofy areas are not my cup of tea. But hey, if you do, bless your heart. So why is it the popular, more traditional bands like TFK and SB continually get thrown under the bus by snobby types who only like 70's stuff or think proliferation (2CD's and long albums) is the height of pretentiousness and these bands would be better to have less output? These artists are far more talented than the bashers and to have someone like Roine Stolt's output dismissed as the work of a hack is sad. And I just love the people who say, "I hate all of (a certain band's) albums. If I hear an album by a band that I hate, I don't go seeking out their other stuff. I move on. ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 09:55
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opinions, eh? they are, after all, like arseholes. everyone has one and,
at times, to most others, they stink... ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 10:01
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I kind of like them but they are surely not in my "Big 25".
I saw them once in 2003. Guest vocalist Daniel Gildenlöw was great and so was Zoltán Csörsz of course
, and Jonas Reingold played wonderfully, too.The sound didn't help Tomas Bodin a lot, and I'm not really overwhelmed by Roine Stolt as a frontman.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 12:26
I know very little about them, but I know they will not be one of my ultimate favorite bands, cuase in the end they sound too happy jejeje, yes! Thats the truth, and many like it and I think its great, but its not particulary my cup of tea. Yet I have nothing agains them and would happily buy some of their albums, if they wouldnt be so indreidibly expensive here!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 12:29
| I used to like them for a short while, but I now find their music pretty uninteresting. That's just my personal opinion though. They are good musicians, their music is just not my taste. But anyone who likes them is free to do so. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 12:59
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They are very good and I don't care if they are considered Retro. Much better being this way than being like porcupine tree that is now a alternative rock band with scarce prog influences. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:18
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I saw them about 5 or 6 years ago at the Whitchurch festival.They arrived on stage and then proceeded to do a 30 minute soundcheck which ,seeing as it was getting late,would have resulted in most of the crowd storming the stage at anything other than a prog gig.Anyway they got the gig underway eventually and by the end I was reasonably impressed enough to get 'Stardust We Are'.Following that I acquired Space Revolver,Unfold The Future and Adam and Eve.Even got the double DVD 'Meet The Flower Kings'.I think it was about this time I started to get bored with them.Investing all that money in the CD's and DVD but then getting bored isn't clever but this was a band that I really wanted to like.The fact that they are 'Retro' isn't a problem at all to me.They have long complex peices with tons of melody and quality musicanship.It should be a no brainer to like them.But sad to say I got bored with them.So why is that?? I think for a few reasons.
Firstly there is no real character or 'personality' to their music.Its bland.I probably should have realised that before buying 4 CD's and a DVD
 Secondly the long peices don't seem to actually go anywhere.Think of the beauty in a peice of music like Awaken or Gates Of Delirium in the way those works are constructed almost like great achictecture.The Flower Kings music by comparison just seem to be endless graffiti scrawled on walls that go on forever and ever.Compositionally their music goes no where.
Finally they never seem to really 'go for it' at any point in their performances either live or studio wise.Just far too laid back for my taste.They are almost like cool surfer dudes playing prog.I know they have an expressed intention to be upbeat all the time but occasionally I'd like to hear them get angry.It might actually make their music exciting.
Oh well you did ask
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:52
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I love TFK. Their ability to make longer compositions is one of the things about them I find to be so impressive. They can just extend a tune, and keep going in different directions, but also bring a tune back into focus when it needs to be establishing an identity for the song. The Flower Kings just don't meander around on their intstruments, they give a song a very defined structure, but it's open enough a listener has difficult predicting what's around the corner, even a veterean listener doesn't know the structure of many of their epics.
-------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:53
Post-Rock is not melodic!? Krautrock is not melodic!? I would like you to name a non-melodic genre. People who are "hardcore" usually don't like mainstream stuff, and TFK are very mainstream prog. People don't bash, say, Trout Mask Replica or Tago Mago because they see that they simply don't "get" the album and/or it's not to their taste, so they know that bashing it will just get them made fun of because they are a prog neophyte. But we can bash TFK with impunity because they don't require 12+ listenings to understand. Hurrah! |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:59
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I love them. LOVE THEM.
everytime i hear somethign from them I am always blown away.
I understand that they sound like Yes. I understand that they have little original ideas in terms of sound or form, but that doesnt mean it is bad. I think people dismiss anything that is similar to something else.
This doesn't make sense to me. If you love Yes, shouldn't you love music that is similar to Yes?! instead, the elitists that make up most of our Prog Comunity feel the need to hate something that is similar to what they love. Now if that makes sense to you, you're f**king crazy... But I guess that just means I can enjoy the music even more :) ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 19:03
| People don't like to feel that they're buying a cheap imitation. And eveyone doesn't like plagiarism. Is that feeling justified? I don't know; I haven't actually put any real time into listening to TFK, but it's how people feel. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 19:07
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I wouldn't say I love them, but they're a good, quality band making good music. Certainly not the most innovative band out there and not the most challenging but that doesnt stop it form being enjoyable music, just appreciate them for what they are - it's not like they're playing the same exact music as earlier generations, they have their own style and I see no reason to hate them just because they're not John Zorn.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 02:20
Absolutely NO.I'm an ELP fan but I hate their German 'clone' Triumvirat.That said I'm not convinced that Flower Kings actually sound that much like Yes although there are occassional nods towards them.As I tried to explain earlier (in many words) they don't really do it for me anymore.You can fall in love and out of love with bands it seems.
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 05:37
Well no. Isn't slavishly copying a band the complete opposite of 'progressive rock'? Perfectly understandable why some don't like such bands...Actually, I always rather felt The Flower Kings' sound is basically Yes, King Crimson and Focus. That said, they aren't so much of a clone like Starcastle- an example of a band that sound 'similar to Yes' and are hugely derided by many. Like I said, I really enjoyed their last album and their early stuff sounds good but when they do that ambling jazz stuff I turn off completely. |
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 11:06
I would hardly call myself a neophyte. I "get" it and post rock does not interest me. There are plenty of threads gushing over Sigur Ros and GYBE that I have read but managed to refrain from saying "that stuff is crap." If I may speak for TFK fans on the site, we are tired of your bashing with (your word) impunity. I can tolerate well thought out criticism of TFK. They are like anyone else, people like them and people don't like them. But some of the comments go over the edge. When you have half the talent of Roine Stolt, then go ahead a let the full bore negativity fly. Otherwise, do something constructive. ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: zFrogs
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 11:40
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Well, The flowers Kings is far from "Unique Sound". So what? They are fantastic musicians, the songs are greats and make me feels good. In these days one prog band that play symphonic like seventies bands is fantastic. I have all TFK records and I enjoy it. I really would like to know more bands like TFK. For Prog Music is a sign of this style is more and more powerful today. YES is one of my favorite bands but today Flower Kings released better records than YES. ------------- https://www.instagram.com/erifrog/ |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 11:56
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I don't hate them, or really even dislike them. What I've heard just hasn't grabbed me. I am in my 40's, but like many of the newer artists (including Spock's Beard). I also don't give anything a pass because it might be a bit derivative. So what if it's more accessible than other genres (I'm a big Zeuhl fan as well). If it's good music, that's all that matters. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 14:00
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TFK doesn't sound like Yes, it could be that they sound like a mix between yes, Crimson and even some ELP thrown there...but they add their own original character.... also, if you sound like a mix of a lot of bands, don't you have a unique sound? That's the uniqueness! They show they have prog-rock culture at paying tribute to many older musicians.... And, as somebody else correctly pointed out, remember: there was KAIPA. We may not know a lot about them (maybe 'cause their old albums were in swede), but they were around in the 70's, and guess who their lead guitar was? Roine Stolt! So I think he has all the right in this world to make his band sound like a 70's outfit, for he himself comes from that era.... Or tell me, what other band that was alive in the 70's still sound great today, or even more, PROGRESSES? Yes? Magnification was good but surely not NEW, Genesis? Dead, and their members? pop-millionaires (hackett tries at least)... Jethro Tull? They were touring my country when I still lived there: they haven't changed a bit... ELP? dead.
So thank God we have at leats one band that can give us music reminiscent of that era.... and rightfull so, for their member WAS THERE.
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Posted By: Scapler
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:27
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They aren't the best, but they are are my iPod, and I enjoy them from now to then. And where else besides Paradox Hotel will you find a good song from the perspective of Hitler? ------------- Bassists are deadly 
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:32
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'Bavarian Skies'? Well that was an obvious indulgence but at least it was short unlike some of their 10 minute ambles...
I never heard the original Kaipa albums, but I really didn't like 'Keyholder' much at all. A derivative, lumpen ragbag that made even TFK sound cohesive and innovative! Actually to be fair I don't mind TFK at all when they write songs... |
Posted By: Scapler
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:34
Yeah "Bavarian Skies"! 'Cha... ------------- Bassists are deadly
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Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 17:08
| I like Bavarian Skies , nothing wrong with that song as far as i'm concerned. Then again i'm a diehard TFK fan. |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 19:03
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i'm 39, and i like TFK very much!
i'm a die hard fan of about any prog sub genre regardless of the era, except krautrock & post rock. ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 19:34
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1. over-produced 2. under-original IMO but then again, I just can't get into any kind of neo-prog. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:10
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I have a hard time understanding those who call TFK unoriginal... then again, maybe I just haven't heard the Yes/Genesis tracks that TFK were ripping off with songs like Rumble Fish Twist, Devil's Danceschool, Devil's Playground, Too Late For Tomatoes, Rhythm Of The Sea, The Unorthodox Dancinglesson, Psychedelic Postcard, and just about everything else. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:49
Sorry, but TFK ain't Neo Prog.  ------------- 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:55
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Once again.... I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
Don't bring originality into any discussion ever. It doesn't mean anything at all. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:55
The ever popular Mike Patton defense? -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:56
I find it works well in an increasing number of situations.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:57
So it seems to be nowadays. Could it have proved OJ's innocence? Well, that's another story.  -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 21:02
No, but the Chewbacca defense could have. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 21:04
The Chewbacca defense could get anyone out of anything. But enough of this, we're getting way off topic here.
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Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 22:20
I'm pretty sure I just fell in love with you.
I'm going to use that quote as my signiture, if that's alright with you. (the first time I've changed my signiture ever here) ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 22:24
  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 02:32
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..but you might get the RSPCA onto you
btw originality and musical brilliance are not mutually exclusive.
Lets say you have one peice of music that is brilliantly played but derivative of Yes and another which is original and also briliantly played.What would you choose? I've already got all the classic Yes releases.I now want something different thanks.Originality does count IMO.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 04:07
I agree. In fact, originality is underated these days. Sometimes it's all we have. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 05:11
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I recall being unable to get into The Flower Kings because of Stolt's voice. I found it to be nasally and derivative of David Bowie. Due to the prodding of a friend of mine, I invested in my first Flower Kings disc (The Rainmaker). I liked it, and slowly started to buy discs that I would find at my local store or Half.com. Well, what do ya know? About 3 years later I ended up buying all of their stuff, I've actually come to appreciate Stolt's voice, and TFK's have become one of my favorite bands.
For me, they took a bit, but they caught on. That's happened with bands like Riverside and King Crimson (although, I find their appeal to be waivering just a bit). E ------------- 
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Posted By: progadder
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 16:49
 i don't know why I don't like them but having given them a chance, I just don't!
Ironically, I think that the F.K. members in The Tangent make a very positive contribution.
Perhaps it's Roine Stolt I don't like because The Tangent definitely sound infinitely better now he's gone.
However, Flower Kings is still better than most of the drivel on TV and mainstream radio.  ------------- There's an angel standing in the sun ... |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:20
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Read my review of Paradox Hotel and tell me what you all think. -------------  
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:23
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That wasn't fair IMO, it's an excellent 4 star album of very intelligently composed music. It might not be that original, but it's very enjoyable quality symphonic prog. If it was made in 73, you'd all be raving about how amazing it is. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:26
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No, I wouldn't be. I specifically said the problem is not that it sounds like 70's prog. It's the very music itself that is poor. -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:31
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Whatever, to me it sounds great.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:36
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Lack of marillion. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:37
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Or kitty cats.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:38
That was completely uncalled for. The only one-star review you've ever written, and you've not written any two-stars, either. Your review is trolling, and you should be suitably reprimanded. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:48
How is it trolling? I wrote 5 paragraphs to back up my rating. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:48
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I really don't like ratings like that one ... they are objectively wrong. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about them ... so I think it's best to ignore them. On my website I developed a smart way to handle them ... their impact on the average is dampened as long as they're only a very small minority. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:49
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How is my rating 'objectively wrong'? -------------
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:49
5 baseless paragraphs. Just how many times did you listen to this album? Your review doesn't show any knowledge of the music, it sounds like a biased review based on a single listen, with an opinion formed before you started. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:52
I've listened to the album about 10 times, all the way the through from beggining to end. I have plenty of knowledge on the music. I hadn't formed an opinion before I started, AS I EXPLICITLY STATED IN MY REVIEW. -------------
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:54
I don't know if I believe you. There is no way this album warrants one star. You sir, are objectively wrong. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:54
Because there are obviously many albums that are worse than Paradox Hotel. Maybe "wrong" is the wrong word, "inconsistent" might be better. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you ...  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:55
Why? Because my review goes against popular opinion? Am I not allowed to express an opinion on an album on this site, even if I can back it up? -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:56
Cut the kid some slack, he's only 13!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:56
That's just your opinion that there are many album worse than Paradox Hotel. -------------
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:57
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Oh, only 13? My bad.
Come back to the album in a few years... it might just be a sleeper for you. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 17:58
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I'm not 13, I'm 17. -------------
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:00
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Mmhmm ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:00
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I just saw the 1 star review of Paradox Hotel- I don't get it- its an amazing CD ------------- |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:01
Read the last page ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:01
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I believe my honesty is being questioned. Not only do you think that I only listened to the album once, but the false notion that I'm 13 years old is now being accepted. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:01
I guess Woody Allen was right when he said that "Objectivity is subjective".  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:02
Just did Ansen.  ------------- |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:03
I simply trust The Miracle's opinion over yours; my perception of your words has been objectively affected by your review. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:04
My age is not a matter of opinion. And my rating/review is not a matter of fact. -------------
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Posted By: TRoTZ
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:05
| I have to admit I agree entirely with The Wizard review. Most recent Flower Kings album shows again, unsurprisingly, a completely unoriginal sound. Beyond that, it lacks all the feeling that usually characterized classics. Though untertaining, it is completely trivial. It's albuns like this that are killing prog. Should progressive don't be really progressive, as the word says ? |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:07
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I don't understand how any open-minded fan of Progressive Rock can give Paradox Hotel a 1 star. It's fairly accessible prog music with no blatant plagiarism. I can't even think of one prog album I'd give that to (except maybe Ummagumma, but the Live album makes up for the horrible studio album). And I doubt you listened to it 10 times; if someone thinks an album is THAT BAD, they probably won't listen to it more than 3 times, if that. ------------- 
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Posted By: TRoTZ
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:10
| You think that people don't like this album because they are not open-minded? That's precisely the opposite lol Open mindness is necessary for completely different albuns, not albuns that try and fails to make odes to 70's classics. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:10
"Kill me. Kill meeeeee.....!"
 ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:11
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How many times must I say that I did not bash the album because it was too accessible or plagarised the classics. -------------
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Posted By: TRoTZ
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:13
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Stonebeard, What I wanted to say was "shouldn't progressive be really progressive, as the word says?" |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:14
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Some of you guys are ridiculous. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:15
The review definitely sounded like you thought it was plagairised and had some bias against it because of that. And you like Wolfmother, there is no way TFK plagairise as much as them. -------------
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:15
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How so? Because we have our own opinions? -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:16
If you're giving Ummagumma 1 star, you should also be giving one star to half of all avant prog and kraut in existence, which isn't that open minded Personally it's my favorite PF album. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |