Zarqawi's Death: Asset or Liability?
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Topic: Zarqawi's Death: Asset or Liability?
Posted By: marktheshark
Subject: Zarqawi's Death: Asset or Liability?
Date Posted: June 08 2006 at 23:18
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I promised not to start war and political debates here but this one just can't be resisted. But don't worry, I promise I'll behave on this one!
Yes, it's great that this pile of python puss has been elimated. But now we have a question of whether this will just strengthen the insurgency with maryrdom or hopefully weaken them? And that's really what I'm opening the debate for here. I'll throw a few shots here and there, but keep in mind, I have reservations now about what's going on over there too. So let's hear it! |
Replies:
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: June 08 2006 at 23:35
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http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200607/zarqawi - "If Zarqawi is captured or killed tomorrow, the Iraqi insurgency will go
on. There is no such thing as ‘Zarqawism.’ What Zarqawi is will die
with him."
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi"> 
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Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 00:00
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asset. targeted assasinations work, even if people step into their place. eventually al-qaeda will be driven from iraq, just like the PLO was driven from Lebanon. These groups continue without their leaders, but usually become more splintered and directionless after these killings --- internal stuff like sucession battles helps. ------------- 
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Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 00:05
You certainly have a knack James for pulling out some of the most longwinded talking points and you sure didn't hesitate on this! 
I'll get back to you tommorow when I've digested this. Just give us some time, ok? Not all of us went to the Evelyn Wood speed reading school. |
James Lee wrote:Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 00:15
Did you say Wood or Waugh?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 00:21
Couldn't have said it better. Even if it doesn't help that much, I'm (sadly) glad that this sicko is gone.
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Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 01:00
Obviously you MISREAD that! Sorry Evelyn, I want my money back! |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 02:00
Very well put,and I couldn't agree more.  -------------  |
Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 07:00
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Of course the death of Zarqawi will stop the insurgency in Iraq. It's bound to. Bush & Blair say so. Just like the capture of Saddam did. And the fall of Baghdad. And the start of Saddam's trial.
And the periodic US/Iraqi terrorist sweeping actions.
And the first Iraqi elections. And the appointment of an Iraqi Prime Minister & Cabinet. And - ? ------------- "Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 07:00
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It's basically a good thing. The resolve of the insurgency will ultimately remaon intact, and martydom will be evident to some degree. However, for once I agree with NetsNJfan. The death of a prominant inspirational figure like Zaqawi will lead to loss of direction.
This doesn't really aid any global 'war on terror' but could go some way to making Iraq more governable. IMO.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 07:41
To an extent, perhaps - there is however, a school of thought maintaining that Zaqawi's support had actually been waning for some time, ironically due to the level of his extremism. The drop in support for the man could have affected support for AlQaeda on the whole, as he was such a prominent leader. That said, I have stated elsewhere that however I may feel about the death of such a man (who was proud of the level of atrocities for which he was responsible), the result of this "targeted assassination" will probably be to spawn more fanatics, only too willing to kill (and die) in memory of yet another martyr - in short, I have mixed feelings on the matter. ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 08:20
Agree. Bottom line is the man was a monster and I'm glad he's dead. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 11:06
There was said to be a rift between Zaqawi and Bin Laden over his 'approach' Zaqawi is rumoured to have done a lot of the dirty work himself, i.e, beheading of hostages etc. I'm inclined to think that capture may, in some instances be better with characters like this, but even in prison he could become a martyr. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 11:06
YAY!  Hahahhaa. We have extreme difference of opinion in foreign policy, but I am glad we can come together and condemn Zarquawi as the douchebag he really was. -------------
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 11:18
I knew we had some common ground other than music.. 
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 11:35
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Aren't you 2 sweet!
Yeah, I pretty much agree across the board here. He's gone and now history, let's move on and get this crap over with George! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 11:42
Well, if me and Nets can agree on something, sorting out Iraq should be a doddle!
Didn't Zaqawi have a $25,000,000 bounty on his head? Who gets that? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 11:53
I think it's some insider they had that gave them the tip. This guy set it up to meet with him and led them to him. Now you see, this is what I've been driving home all along. It is this type of old fashioned covert human intell is what we need in this war. We've been relying too much on electronic surveillance. I know this means dealing with shady characters and it is dirty business, but it can work. We need to get back to the 50's and 60's type intell work my old man used to oversee. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 12:03
Do you think Saddams regime could have been overthrown, through clandestine means, and if so could we have avoided war? I've always thought that we could have gone about regime change - assuming the arguments for this were sound - by using special forces, covert intell etc. I've often wondered why we didn't deal with Saddam when he invaded Kuwait. Were the logistics not in place, or were there political reasons why we needed him to remain in power at that time? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 12:14
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Asset. The alternative would have been to allow him to continue to do animalistic barbaric atrocities unabated. We have no control over his people making him into a martyr. They would have done that even if he'd died from accidental food poisoning. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 12:16
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Of course the loss of someone like Zarqawi is a success for the U.S., but it's by no means a sign of victory. Zarqawi is not the only man who is willing or smart enough to organize and do the things he did. We have seen the end of Zarqawi, but we have by no means seen the end of the insurgencys. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 12:50
It would've taken a long time, but yes I think Saddam could've been taken out with clandestine means. I think the problem with Castro and why we couldn't knock him out that way was because of the Soviet Union backing him. Saddam was a much easier target and more isolated. I hate to get political here but it goes back to Carter with him putting all these restrictions on intell capabilities. But Reagan didn't do much better either. My old man didn't like Reagan, he was hoping he would lift these restrictions but didn't. |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 13:06
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^ Yea I agree the intelligence agencies need more broad powers. I was outraged by the NSA phone scandal, until I realized what it actually was, and how it was completely blown out of proportion. When you actually meet these people you realize that they aren't the Gestapo, just normal people doing a job. -------------
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Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 13:11
From what I've heard so far it was phone tapping that initially nailed those assholes in Canada. But I maybe wrong. |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: June 10 2006 at 05:10
To be totally objective, I'm sure most of the Gestapo were basically decent people doing their jobs as well. That's the problem. Once you start accepting this stuff, in tiny steps, it makes it easier for the situation to go too far. Nobody ever willingly settles for less power than they can get... The thing I admire most about traditional Republicans/ Conservatives is how much emphasis they place on hands-off government and individualism. Whereas neocons seem to be okay with meddling, intrusion, and spending more tax money...uh, kinda like all those evil liberals. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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