Is it just me, but in the last couple of months, have things got a little tense around here?

When I first joined this forum earlier this year, everyone seemed very civil and good humoured. However now, and I think its predominantly people who have joined after the summer, people seem to bicker much more, and are very easily offended by failry harmless and flippant comments. Maybe I've had my moments too, but I cant remember for sure.

Anyone else noticed? Why has it happened?

It's all me...I am the cause and source of all that is evil.

Seriously though (although some may agree with that first statement!), you're completely correct. The tone is definitely less open and amiable as it was when I joined up, but I can't deny I've had my part in that. I'm generally pretty good-humored (although opinionated and irritatingly particular at times) but I simply haven't always had the sense to recognize when I'm in a dangerously bad mood...and frankly, if I'm gonna snap I'd rather it be here than in 'real life' where the consequences are potentially much more grievous...

Some may cite contoversial topics or statements as a likely cause, but I don't think that's the answer. If we were all mature and reasonable people we could discuss anything, or at least decide not to respond to those sort of threads.

And there seems to be an increase in troll activity, too...never good for a forum's general well-being. Possibly because we're not as quick to pounce on people with low post counts & repeated topics as some places...it's a classic paradox: in being more open and permissive we might allow for more potential nastiness, but changing that outlook may do even more damage...

I like to think that I dont upset people on here. I try to word my opinions as diplomatically as possible and stress that they are just opinions. Music is a subjective thing, after all. Although I have never been the target of abuse myself on here, its only a matter of time, I'm sure.

The best policy is to avoid any discussions about politics or religion, especially on the 'Main discussions' page. These two topics can not be discussed objectivly.

News forums are the best place to bash people with different political views. If you feel you have to do that at all.

Relax those tense muscles with this nice hot bath...

That's me just after I shaved my legs  NOT!!!

sigod:

I will think of you very differently from now on

Now, on a serious note, I demand to know where you got that picture of my bird!!

Blacksword wrote: sigod: I will think of you very differently from now on Now, on a serious note, I demand to know where you got that picture of my bird!!

I don't see your rubber ducky in that photo, Blacksword...

***Serious Bit***

I reckon the tension is simply caused by new people joining up and expecting this to be like "other" forums where trolls abound, flame wars are the norm, and so they come in with the hobnail boots flying... before realising that this really is a comfortable cardigan and slippers type of place and we're not just pretending...

I also think it's caused by the deep-seated desire of many (me included) to keep this as an intelligent forum, and not drop to the internet's common denominator. Most outbursts seem to come following an outbreak of crass stupidity more than anything else - ProgArchives is much more tolerant than the "civility" thread might have you believe, and we're all capable of producing stupid jokes and coming out with general dumb stuff - but I mean the type of stupidity which starts with new comers not bothering to search old threads for topics of interest and goes through dumb trolling (Spam and "I think X is crap" about people's favourite band) to general insulting of groups of people - whether tongue-in-cheek or not.

To my mind, this forum is breaking new ground in its attempts to keep attitudes at decent altitudes. The difficulty it faces as more people join up is that those same new people that are needed to help the site "progress" are ultimately from different backgrounds and cultures and are not necessarily going to play in the sandpit nicely.

I guess it's up to the existing membership to provide "guidance" to newcomers (e.g. "Read the civility thread!"), because I'm pretty sure none of them bother to read the forum guidelines they have to agree to...

I can't just blame newcomers, tho' - there are certainly things that we, as existing members can do - or even avoid doing (but we all know what they are, so I won't bore anyone with details...).

It's all the angry, sub-literate, violence and videogame obsessed, short attention-spanned, intolerant and self loathing young metalheads.

I blame it all on Dream Theater (and others of the dripping in gore "prog mental" genre), and their inclusion here.

If you build it, they will come -- then tear it down.

Seriously though, manners are declining.

I recall when a newbie signed on, and his one and only post took the form of a rather cold "correction" of some musing I did in a review. No "great web site," no "good review, but...." just putting me in my place. Also recently, a newer arrival here PM'ed me with a question. I took the time to give a detailed answer, but I was never thanked or acknowledged for that answer. I still don't know, weeks later, if the person agreed with me or not. How much effort does it take to hit the "Reply" button and type in "thanks?"

I'm sorry to say this, but I believe that things will continue to decline, as more newer members sign on, the average age of members declines, and the "old guard" lose interest due to the overall decrease in the intelligence level of the posts, and the subsequent lessening of tolerance and humour. Another inevitable "problem" with regard to retaining long-term members is the cyclical nature of many of the topics. For example, we have now had at least three "dream band"-type threads, and countless variations of the useless "who's the BEST" poll (no fault of the Newbies). Thus people lose interest, new people join, no one knows each other, or feels they owe anyting to the Archives or one another, and it's so easy to be negative. Arguing one's point, especially in print  -- as I'm doing here -- takes time. Simply lashing out is so much easier.

That's the way I see it -- sorry....

Teach your kids basic manners, folks.

Peter Rideout wrote: It's all the angry, sub-literate, violence and videogame obsessed, short attention-spanned, intolerant and self loathing young metalheads.

angry -  (grrrrr grrr grrr grrr)

sub-literate -  (well, that's one point in my favor...or is it?)

violence and videogame obsessed -  (I own http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/738/Manhunt/p1 - Manhunt and IMAO it isn't that violent...)

short attention-span -  (sorry, what? I was busy checking out pictures of Canadian all-girl metal band http://www.kittierocks.com/ - Kittie )

intolerant -  (ok, I'll take a half-point for that one. I have my blind spots.)

self-loathing -  (to know me is to loathe me, and no one knows me better)

young -  (only relatively- I'll drop a half point there)

metalhead -  (hmm...does liking Cradle of Filth, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Fates Warning, Slayer, Celtic Frost, Sodom, Danzig, and Cannibal Corpse count? LOL)

on the Rideout Scale, I score a 6 out of a possible 8. (or is that 666 out of a posible 888? )

I think people on this forum are a tad over-sensitive.This is the first forum I've ever joined (aren't you the unlucky ones!) and I've found that what I would consider to be "heated, but healthy debate" can be seen by others as "all out war". I find this extraordinary. All this formality might be misconstrued by some as snobbery or elitism and it certainly hints at a lack of genuine passion from some contributors.Nobody has ever said anything that has offended me per-se,but I have been offended by the condescending tone of some members.The attitude of "dont step on so and so's toes" is bizaare but exists on this forum.I have had at least 3 messages from people "glad we are on good terms now" even though I have never felt any kind of antipathy towards these individuals.In fact 2 of them I particularly admire!!! I like to wind people up but as long as their responses are honest, and well thought out ( nice one Cert!) I dont see why this should be a problem.I even had one person suggesting I was staging my leaving the forum to see how many friends I had! () I have reacted emotionally to one person's post ( who probably blundered into the situation by getting the "wrong-end-of -the -stick").I had genuine reasons for doing a runner but after a few days break I saw things differently.

 I am still amazed at how some people react. I enjoy a bit of a verbal rumble but once the dust has settled I never bear any grudges or particularly remember who i've had an "argument" with.And no, I dont feel I can say whatever I want then expect people to just laugh it off. This is not my nature.

This idea of things being tense is daft.Some might say that I would say that as maybe I am part of the perceived problem. I have visited lots of forums over the last few weeks and this is far and away the most civil and interesting.The presentation of the site is very well thought out (the Discussions Not Related To Music section especially) and there is a good cross-section of ages.

Don't take yourselves so seriously guys-life is too short! There is only so much you can say about prog rock that hasn't already been discussed, and it is not as if the scene is fast developing is it?

Lets try and be a bit more thick-skinned.Taking offence all the time just makes you appear shallow.

The regulars on this site are all wonderful people (except me and VelvetIdiot, of course) but they are not immune from ridicule.

Good post Reed.

I have gone on numerous news forums, where people seem to think they are political analysts of the highest calibre. To merely have an opinion is not good enough! Although things can a bit high brow around here I dont think of it really as being to snobby or eletist, and that doesn't bother me. Its when someone expresses an opinion, and they are attacked. I think its only happened to me once, but I dont like it. This forum is a celebration of good music, and we all have a love of that in common.

I agree with you generally about not taking things too seriously.

Reed Lover wrote: I think people on this forum are a tad over-sensitive.This is the first forum I've ever joined (aren't you the unlucky ones!) and I've found that what I would consider to be "heated, but healthy debate" can be seen by others as "all out war". I find this extraordinary. All this formality might be misconstrued by some as snobbery or elitism and it certainly hints at a lack of genuine passion from some contributors.Nobody has ever said anything that has offended me per-se,but I have been offended by the condescending tone of some members.The attitude of "dont step on so and so's toes" is bizaare but exists on this forum.I have had at least 3 messages from people "glad we are on good terms now" even though I have never felt any kind of antipathy towards these individuals.In fact 2 of them I particularly admire!!! I like to wind people up but as long as their responses are honest, and well thought out ( nice one Cert!) I dont see why this should be a problem.I even had one person suggesting I was staging my leaving the forum to see how many friends I had! () I have reacted emotionally to one person's post ( who probably blundered into the situation by getting the "wrong-end-of -the -stick").I had genuine reasons for doing a runner but after a few days break I saw things differently.  I am still amazed at how some people react. I enjoy a bit of a verbal rumble but once the dust has settled I never bear any grudges or particularly remember who i've had an "argument" with.And no, I dont feel I can say whatever I want then expect people to just laugh it off. This is not my nature. This idea of things being tense is daft.Some might say that I would say that as maybe I am part of the perceived problem. I have visited lots of forums over the last few weeks and this is far and away the most civil and interesting.The presentation of the site is very well thought out (the Discussions Not Related To Music section especially) and there is a good cross-section of ages. Don't take yourselves so seriously guys-life is too short! There is only so much you can say about prog rock that hasn't already been discussed, and it is not as if the scene is fast developing is it? Lets try and be a bit more thick-skinned.Taking offence all the time just makes you appear shallow. The regulars on this site are all wonderful people (except me and VelvetIdiot, of course) but they are not immune from ridicule.

There is much merit in what you say, Reed -- I (and others, I suppose) could try to be more thick-skinned -- after all, it's just a music forum, not the U.N.

Point taken.

However: The newbie asked a question, and he was not alone in his estimation that things seem "edgy" of late (I and other long-terms have noticed it.)

To a large extent, I think that a decline in "tone" is inevitable with the growth of any community, real or internet. People don't know each other, or want to know, people don't want to "get involved," newcomers to the town, city, or forum may not (at least at first) feel that they "owe" anything to that community.

In the case of the Forums, success may well breed excess.

Still, as you might say, Reed, there is no reason why I can't enjoy myself here, joke with those whom I know share and understand my peculiar brand of whimsy, and just ignore posts that I don't like, or have "seen before."

Still, if I PM someone a detailed response to an unsolicited question, at least acknowledge that you received it, FOR PETE'S SAKE!

However: The newbie asked a question, and he was not alone in his estimation that things seem "edgy" of late (I and other long-terms have noticed it.)

The newbie you refer to is Blacksword
Senior Member



Joined: 22 June 2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 417

These youngsters are getting older every day!

BTW; when you say "tense" ehat exactly do you mean. I doubt if anyone will be upset if you are more explicit.

I hate it when people like Dork Lover gives me compliments !!!!!

PETER!!

HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A NEWBIE!!!!

jUST BEING TENSE

Blacksword wrote: PETER!! HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A NEWBIE!!!! jUST BEING TENSE

Sorry, Blackie!

My, how the time flies -- seems like just the other day you were toddling around the Forums in a droopy diaper with a pacifier, charming us all with your infantile attempts at communication....

Now, I suppose, you'll be wanting to borrow the car, and needing money for college -- see Max@ and Mother Maani for the latter.

(No offense meant, natch!)

  Did you know that as a "senior," you now qualify for discounted bus fare? That surprisingly spry octogenarian "doddering Dick" Heath will be only too glad to fill you in on all of the benefits attendant upon your "ascension." He likes it when people notice him -- don't forget to pat his dear old snow-white, fluffy head when you see him, and bring him some humbugs (he dearly loves those, though the nurses tend to confiscate them -- seems they "gum up his works." 

Remember, these are your "golden" years! Live! Love! Dance! Wheeze! Clutch your chest and plummet like a stone to the floor!

Reed Lover wrote: BTW; when you say "tense" ehat exactly do you mean. I doubt if anyone will be upset if you are more explicit.

NO! You can't make me tell you! LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE, WHY CAN'T YOU?

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

I have to say that most of what is said should here, I take with a pinch of salt but hey, with 338 posts to my name, I must just be a newbie too

Or is it judged in the time you joined, or is it the number of stars???

AHHHH, THERE'S NOBODY HERE WITH FOUR STARS!!

Ahem, sorry about that.

I love you all...

[QUOTE=sigod] I love you all... [/QUOTE]

  Errm, in a manly, back-slapping, shoulder-punching way, right?

 Ha!

Peter Rideout wrote: Blacksword wrote: PETER!! HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A NEWBIE!!!! jUST BEING TENSE Sorry, Blackie! My, how the time flies -- seems like just the other day you were toddling around the Forums in a droopy diaper with a pacifier, charming us all with your infantile attempts at communication.... Now, I suppose, you'll be wanting to borrow the car, and needing money for college -- see Max@ and Mother Maani for the latter. (No offense meant, natch!)   Did you know that as a "senior," you now qualify for discounted bus fare? That surprisingly spry octogenarian "doddering Dick" Heath will be only too glad to fill you in on all of the benefits attendant upon your "ascension." He likes it when people notice him -- don't forget to pat his dear old snow-white, fluffy head when you see him, and bring him some humbugs (he dearly loves those, though the nurses tend to confiscate them -- seems they "gum up his works."  Remember, these are your "golden" years! Live! Love! Dance! Wheeze! Clutch your chest and plummet like a stone to the floor!

Peter:

I know its frightening how fast we all grow up, but you'll be delighted to know that I have no intention of flying the nest. I intend to live here well into middle age, treating the forum like its a hotel.

Anyway, I'm not going to college. I'm going to be a rock star, so get your wallet out and buy me a guitar!! Now!!..and yes, I do want to borrow the car. All weekend!!

You hate me dont you!! You're not my real parents!! I'm adopted!! I'm going to my room to listern to the Smiths, and I'll never eat again!!! You'll be sorry, when I'm dead !!!!!

Peter Rideout wrote: [QUOTE=sigod] I love you all... [/QUOTE]   Errm, in a manly, back-slapping, shoulder-punching way, right?

Er...yeah, right..what about those dodgers eh? (stands next to bar and hides Village People album behind beer..)

sigod wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: [QUOTE=sigod] I love you all... [/QUOTE]   Errm, in a manly, back-slapping, shoulder-punching way, right? Er...yeah, right..what about those dodgers eh? (stands next to bar and hides Village People album behind beer..)

You sure thats a beer sigod? Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!!

I know what you mean... it seems to be all over the internet.  Someone on another site just accused me of giving BJs to get backstage at concerts.... and I think she thought she was actually insulting me.... 

 I just replied "Man, I wish it was still that much fun"

^ absolutely! I nominate The Specials' cover of "Enjoy Yourself (it's Later than You Think)"

...but milk makes me highly flatulent. That won't help anyone else's mood

asuma wrote: listen to ska, and drink chocolate milk. after that i don't know how anyone can stay angry.

ska gooood

Blacksword wrote: Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!!

Excuse my Americanism, but WHAT IS a girlie shandy, Ochrefoil?

danbo wrote: Blacksword wrote: Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!! Excuse my Americanism, but WHAT IS a girlie shandy, Ochrefoil?

Shandy is a drink. Half beer half lemonade. Girls drink it!

Now, excuse my limey ignorance, but WTF is Ochrefoil??

Blacksword wrote: danbo wrote: Blacksword wrote: Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!! Excuse my Americanism, but WHAT IS a girlie shandy, Ochrefoil? Shandy is a drink. Half beer half lemonade. Girls drink it! Now, excuse my limey ignorance, but WTF is Ochrefoil??

In a america we would have called it something far more clever like:Beer and Lemonade.

Actually we would have elaborated on it some like: Old Style and Lemonade

Now there's a vomit inducing thought.

american beer sucks!!

jiggajake wrote: asuma wrote: listen to ska, and drink chocolate milk. after that i don't know how anyone can stay angry. ska gooood

Have you listened to http://www.citizenfish.com/ - Subhumans/Culture Shock/Citizen Fish , jiggajake? They're my all-time favourite ska/punk fusion band (yep, all 3 are essentially the same band!)

gdub411 wrote: Blacksword wrote: danbo wrote: Blacksword wrote: Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!! Excuse my Americanism, but WHAT IS a girlie shandy, Ochrefoil? Shandy is a drink. Half beer half lemonade. Girls drink it! Now, excuse my limey ignorance, but WTF is Ochrefoil?? In a america we would have called it something far more clever like:Beer and Lemonade. Actually we would have elaborated on it some like: Old Style and Lemonade Now there's a vomit inducing thought. american beer sucks!!

It's not great quality, I know.But, Miller & Bud will get you where you want to be

They're better than Fosters and all that Aussie p!ss!!  Apart from VB, now thats good.

Blacksword wrote: [QUOTE=sigod][QUOTE=Peter Rideout] You sure thats a beer sigod? Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!!

Hey, shandy can be a man's drink if you take the little umberella out   

sigod wrote: Blacksword wrote: [QUOTE=sigod][QUOTE=Peter Rideout] You sure thats a beer sigod? Looks like a girlie shandy to me!!! Hey, shandy can be a man's drink if you take the little umberella out

Fair enough. Thats what I do

Not drinking it through a pink swirly straw also helps, I find.

Beer and lemonade? Why would anyone invent that, let alone have it catch on?

I'd prefer a nice glass of plastic-jug vodka and bongwater.

Blacksword & James

Good one.

I thought here we call it "Hard Lemonade"... and specifically the brand of Mike's Hard Lemonade.

However, Smirnoff and a few others now package vodka and lemonade in a beer sized bottle which is a lot more tasty...

LOL, Danbo could get work creating new Marvel Comics characters....

"Blacksword was originally a normal, everyday scientist, billionaire, and fencing grandmaster until he came into possession of the legendary, mystical Sword of Blackness...dedicating his life to fighting crime, he joined forces with The Fantastic Four to repel yet another Galactus threat...unfortunately the mystical sword overcame his good personality and he became the malevolent Ochrefoil and had to be defeated in a seven-issue multi-hero crossover spectacular. Exclesior!"

James Lee wrote: ^ absolutely! I nominate The Specials' cover of "Enjoy Yourself (it's Later than You Think)"

Also, their "Pressure Drop"  -- CRANK IT, King James!

Early Madness is also great, & what do you think of ska-punkers Reel Big Fish? Fun stuff!

threefates wrote: I thought here we call it "Hard Lemonade"... and specifically the brand of Mike's Hard Lemonade. However, Smirnoff and a few others now package vodka and lemonade in a beer sized bottle which is a lot more tasty...

When I am at the gay bar and I order Mike's Hard Lemonade I say "Give me a hard one"

gdub411 wrote: When I am at the gay bar and I order Mike's Hard Lemonade I say "Give me a hard one"

 "Gay bar," eh? Sounds like a cheery sort of place -- is it always happy hour there, then?

Wait Danbo! Don't go in there! (And especially not in those chaps!)

Uh oh! Too late! Yikes -- just look at him: Hands on his hips, sticks out his wrist -- gives it a twist -- whoops! He's doin' the French mistake!

Or is that the Garten?

Peter Rideout wrote: RIP, Mel Brooks.

either R.I.P. stands for something different than I always thought, or I missed a big news story.

^  Oops! I thought he had died recently -- sorry!

Who was it that died, then, smartguy?

He was very much alive and in good form on "Parkinson" on Saturday night! I think he has a stage show starting in the West End of London around now ("The producers"?)

Anyway, this guy goes to the doctor and says "Doctor, sometimes I think I'm a wigwam, and sometimes I think I'm a teepee. What's wrong with me?".

The doctor replies "You're two tents".

Easy Livin wrote: Anyway, this guy goes to the doctor and says "Doctor, sometimes I think I'm a wigwam, and sometimes I think I'm a teepee. What's wrong with me?". The doctor replies "You're two tents".

LOL

Let that be an amen to this thread !

Peter Rideout wrote: ^  Oops! I thought he had died recently -- sorry! Who was it that died, then, smartguy?

You're probably thinking of Rodney ("somebody step on a duck?") Dangerfield.

BTW, I don't wear chaps, Professor Pecker Assout. I prefer a leather cod piece and thigh high calf skin boots.  

danbo wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: ^  Oops! I thought he had died recently -- sorry! Who was it that died, then, smartguy? You're probably thinking of Rodney ("somebody step on a duck?") Dangerfield.

No, not Dangerfield....

I'm thinking of ol' what's 'is name, you know, the guy with the arms and legs!

Be a pal and check the obits for me, will ya, Danbo?

The guy with the limp, right?

Leg, not wrist. Feeb. 

Peter Rideout wrote: danbo wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: ^  Oops! I thought he had died recently -- sorry! Who was it that died, then, smartguy? You're probably thinking of Rodney ("somebody step on a duck?") Dangerfield. No, not Dangerfield.... I'm thinking of ol' what's 'is name, you know, the guy with the arms and legs! Be a pal and check the obits for me, will ya, Danbo?

I know that guy. He's that  guy who lived in that one house.. with the windows...right?

Well if we can mourn the passing of ANYONE without them actually BEING dead then:

RIP - John Kerry

RIP - Wylie Coyote

RIP - Elvis 

RIP - Velvetclown 

Any other suggestions?

RIP: Ochrefoil!!

He was slayed last night by Lightblade, Blacksword's do-gooding cousin. The real Blacksword has been resurected through some magic process only understood by prog nerds who read fantasy or watch Dr Who.

I'm back in all my shandy drinking, crime fighting glory. Prog metal newbies watch out.

threefates wrote: I thought here we call it "Hard Lemonade"... and specifically the brand of Mike's Hard Lemonade. However, Smirnoff and a few others now package vodka and lemonade in a beer sized bottle which is a lot more tasty...

We have what you  might call 'Hard lemonade' Just over ten years ago, two drinks 'Hooch' and 'Two Dogs' went on sale in the, although they are actually Australian drinks. They resemble tradional lemonade, but are deceptivly strong, and seemed to be aimed at kids!!  

Collectivly known as alcopops, these drinks get you severely wrecked. I drunk 13 Bacardi Breezers, one summer afternoon a few years back, and I was ill for two days.

It tasted like pop! I didn't feel drunk at all, until I tried to play football after the 10th or so. The projectile vomiting started about 30 minutes after the 13th. That was about 5.00pm. I was still shouting EUROPE at the U-bend by 7.00am the next day. The headache that followed lasted the rest of the day, up until lunch time the following day.

My caring friends, to this day, whenever I'm feeling a off colour for whatever reason, ask me if I want a breezer.

Yes I quite agree I mean what's the point of being treated like sheep. What's the point of going abroad if you're just another tourist carted around in buses surrounded by sweaty mindless oafs from Kettering and Coventry in their cloth caps and their cardigans and their transistor radios and their Sunday Mirrors, complaining about the tea - "Oh they don't make it properly here, do they, not like at home" - and stopping at Majorcan bodegas selling fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel and calamares and two veg and sitting in their cotton frocks squirting Timothy White's sun cream all over their puffy raw swollen purulent flesh 'cos they "overdid it on the first day." And being herded into endless Hotel Miramars and Bellvueses and Continentales with their modern international luxury roomettes and draught Red Barrel and swimming pools full of fat German businessmen pretending they're acrobats forming pyramids and frightening the children and barging into queues and if you're not at your table spot on seven you miss the bowl of Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup, the first item on the menu of International Cuisine, and every Thursday night the hotel has a bloody cabaret in the bar, featuring a tiny emaciated dago with nine-inch hips and some bloated fat tart with her hair brylcreemed down and a big arse presenting Flamenco for Foreigners. And then some adenoidal typists from Birmingham with flabby white legs and diarrhoea trying to pick up hairy bandy-legged wop waiters called Manuel and once a week there's an excursion to the local Roman Remains to buy cherryade and melted ice cream and bleeding Watney's Red Barrel and one evening you visit the so called typical restaurant with local colour and atmosphere and you sit next to a party from Rhyl who keep singing "Torremolinos, torremolinos" and complaining about the food - "It's so greasy isn't it?" - and you get cornered by some drunken greengrocer from Luton with an Instamatic camera and Dr. Scholl sandals and last Tuesday's Daily Express and he drones on and on about how Mr. Smith should be running this country and how many languages Enoch Powell can speak and then he throws up over the Cuba Libres. And sending tinted postcards of places they don't realise they haven't even visited to "All at number 22, weather wonderful, our room is marked with an 'X'. Food very greasy but we've found a charming little local place hidden away in the backstreets where they serve Watney's Red Barrel and cheese and onion....... crisps and the accordionist plays 'Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner'." And spending four days on the tarmac at Luton airport on a five-day package tour with nothing to eat but dried BEA-type sandwiches and you can't even get a drink of Watney's Red Barrel because you're still in England and the bloody bar closes every time you're thirsty and there's nowhere to sleep and the kids are crying and vomiting and breaking the plastic ash-trays and they keep telling you it'll only be another hour although your plane is still in Iceland and has to take some Swedes to Yugoslavia before it can load you up at 3 a.m. in the bloody morning and you sit on the tarmac till six because of "unforeseen difficulties", i.e. the permanent strike of Air Traffic Control in Paris - and nobody can go to the lavatory until you take off at 8, and when you get to Malaga airport everybody's swallowing "enterovioform" and queuing for the toilets and queuing for the armed customs officers, and queuing for the bloody bus that isn't there to take you to the hotel that hasn't yet been finished. And when you finally get to the half-built Algerian ruin called the Hotel del Sol by paying half your holiday money to a licensed bandit in a taxi you find there's no water in the pool, there's no water in the taps, there's no water in the bog and there's only a bleeding lizard in the bidet. And half the rooms are double booked and you can't sleep anyway because of the permanent twenty-four-hour drilling of the foundations of the hotel next door - and you're plagues by appalling apprentice chemists from Ealing pretending to be hippies, and middle-class stockbrokers' wives busily buying identical holiday villas in suburban development plots just like Esher, in case the Labour government gets in again, and fat American matrons with sloppy-buttocks and Hawaiian-patterned ski pants looking for any mulatto male who can keep it up long enough when they finally let it all flop out. And the Spanish Tourist Board promises you that the raging cholera epidemic is merely a case of mild Spanish tummy, like the previous outbreak of Spanish tummy in 1660 which killed half London and decimated Europe - and meanwhile the bloody Guardia are busy arresting sixteen-year-olds for kissing in the streets and shooting anyone under nineteen who doesn't like Franco. And then on the last day in the airport lounge everyone's comparing sunburns, drinking Nasty Spumante, buying cartons of duty free "cigarillos" and using up their last pesetas on horrid dolls in Spanish National costume and awful straw donkeys and bullfight posters with your name on "Ordoney, El Cordobes and Brian Pules of Norwich" and 3-D pictures of the Pope and Kennedy and Franco, and everybody's talking about coming again next year and you swear you never will although there you are tumbling bleary-eyed out of a tourist-tight antique Iberian airplane...

See? This isn't tense; were just a bunch of guys and girls having a drink and shooting the Bacardi Breezer...

Sigod:

As I've explained, the Bacardi Breezer is the downfall of all civilized conversation. Its not to be encouraged.

Is that Marc Almond snuggled up next to Gary Kemp in the background, nursing their shandys??

Velvetclown wrote: Yes I quite agree I mean what's the point of being treated like sheep. What's the point of going abroad if you're just another tourist carted around in buses surrounded by sweaty mindless oafs from Kettering and Coventry in their cloth caps and their cardigans and their transistor radios and their Sunday Mirrors, complaining about the tea - "Oh they don't make it properly here, do they, not like at home" - and stopping at Majorcan bodegas selling fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel and calamares and two veg and sitting in their cotton frocks squirting Timothy White's sun cream all over their puffy raw swollen purulent flesh 'cos they "overdid it on the first day." And being herded into endless Hotel Miramars and Bellvueses and Continentales with their modern international luxury roomettes and draught Red Barrel and swimming pools full of fat German businessmen pretending they're acrobats forming pyramids and frightening the children and barging into queues and if you're not at your table spot on seven you miss the bowl of Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup, the first item on the menu of International Cuisine, and every Thursday night the hotel has a bloody cabaret in the bar, featuring a tiny emaciated dago with nine-inch hips and some bloated fat tart with her hair brylcreemed down and a big arse presenting Flamenco for Foreigners. And then some adenoidal typists from Birmingham with flabby white legs and diarrhoea trying to pick up hairy bandy-legged wop waiters called Manuel and once a week there's an excursion to the local Roman Remains to buy cherryade and melted ice cream and bleeding Watney's Red Barrel and one evening you visit the so called typical restaurant with local colour and atmosphere and you sit next to a party from Rhyl who keep singing "Torremolinos, torremolinos" and complaining about the food - "It's so greasy isn't it?" - and you get cornered by some drunken greengrocer from Luton with an Instamatic camera and Dr. Scholl sandals and last Tuesday's Daily Express and he drones on and on about how Mr. Smith should be running this country and how many languages Enoch Powell can speak and then he throws up over the Cuba Libres. And sending tinted postcards of places they don't realise they haven't even visited to "All at number 22, weather wonderful, our room is marked with an 'X'. Food very greasy but we've found a charming little local place hidden away in the backstreets where they serve Watney's Red Barrel and cheese and onion....... crisps and the accordionist plays 'Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner'." And spending four days on the tarmac at Luton airport on a five-day package tour with nothing to eat but dried BEA-type sandwiches and you can't even get a drink of Watney's Red Barrel because you're still in England and the bloody bar closes every time you're thirsty and there's nowhere to sleep and the kids are crying and vomiting and breaking the plastic ash-trays and they keep telling you it'll only be another hour although your plane is still in Iceland and has to take some Swedes to Yugoslavia before it can load you up at 3 a.m. in the bloody morning and you sit on the tarmac till six because of "unforeseen difficulties", i.e. the permanent strike of Air Traffic Control in Paris - and nobody can go to the lavatory until you take off at 8, and when you get to Malaga airport everybody's swallowing "enterovioform" and queuing for the toilets and queuing for the armed customs officers, and queuing for the bloody bus that isn't there to take you to the hotel that hasn't yet been finished. And when you finally get to the half-built Algerian ruin called the Hotel del Sol by paying half your holiday money to a licensed bandit in a taxi you find there's no water in the pool, there's no water in the taps, there's no water in the bog and there's only a bleeding lizard in the bidet. And half the rooms are double booked and you can't sleep anyway because of the permanent twenty-four-hour drilling of the foundations of the hotel next door - and you're plagues by appalling apprentice chemists from Ealing pretending to be hippies, and middle-class stockbrokers' wives busily buying identical holiday villas in suburban development plots just like Esher, in case the Labour government gets in again, and fat American matrons with sloppy-buttocks and Hawaiian-patterned ski pants looking for any mulatto male who can keep it up long enough when they finally let it all flop out. And the Spanish Tourist Board promises you that the raging cholera epidemic is merely a case of mild Spanish tummy, like the previous outbreak of Spanish tummy in 1660 which killed half London and decimated Europe - and meanwhile the bloody Guardia are busy arresting sixteen-year-olds for kissing in the streets and shooting anyone under nineteen who doesn't like Franco. And then on the last day in the airport lounge everyone's comparing sunburns, drinking Nasty Spumante, buying cartons of duty free "cigarillos" and using up their last pesetas on horrid dolls in Spanish National costume and awful straw donkeys and bullfight posters with your name on "Ordoney, El Cordobes and Brian Pules of Norwich" and 3-D pictures of the Pope and Kennedy and Franco, and everybody's talking about coming again next year and you swear you never will although there you are tumbling bleary-eyed out of a tourist-tight antique Iberian airplane...

classic!

The only thing missing is the great inflections (like the way he says "Dr. Scholl's" or "bleedin' Watney's Red Barrel") and Carol Cleveland saying "so d'you want to go upstairs?". An all-time favorite moment!

gdub411 wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: danbo wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: ^  Oops! I thought he had died recently -- sorry! Who was it that died, then, smartguy? You're probably thinking of Rodney ("somebody step on a duck?") Dangerfield. No, not Dangerfield.... I'm thinking of ol' what's 'is name, you know, the guy with the arms and legs! Be a pal and check the obits for me, will ya, Danbo? I know that guy. He's that  guy who lived in that one house.. with the windows...right?

Exactly! thanks Gdub -- now we're narrowing it down!

And he had a father and a mother....

James Lee wrote: Dude...I think it might be me.

  Yeah, Mr. Smee, but you're not dead.... Are you?

The guy I'm thinking was also known for saying things about stuff. Most times he was right, but sometimes he was wrong....

Peter Rideout wrote: James Lee wrote: Dude...I think it might be me.   Yeah, Mr. Smee, but you're not dead.... Are you? The guy I'm thinking was also known for saying things about stuff. Most times he was right, but sometimes he was wrong....

Wasn't me then...

...did he have, like, a face and hands and stuff? If he was wearing clothes, then I think I may be able to provide a clue;

He was walking past a house on a day when it was light. There was at least one bird in the sky, I remember, and somewhere in the world a person coughed at least once. Someone else was listening to music being played by a band that had musicians in (so it wasn't Doggy Rapper MC and the Dizzee DeeJayz).

I caught the 11:14 First Great Western to Paddington from Reading Station, which was 9 minutes late due to a bad point just outside Chiswick flyover and the wrong sort of wind. I did apologise for eating the wrong sort of cheese and tried to blame James Lee - but he told be that his bottom burped precisely 12 seconds prior to mine, and wasn't due another eruption for a good minute.

What were we talking about again?

uh...why is everyone so tense?

the question may be on its way to becoming moot, thank goodness...

Hey, I was in the military and flew fighter planes for the better part of 9 years. It was one of the most unfair jobs I ever had  and BELIEVE me nothing can offend me. You have to take everything with a grain of salt. If you don't you shouldn't have even been born. After all, the only way we know each other on this site is through this medium of cyberspace. Calm your jets. Take a warm shower have some sex spend some quality time with your pets. This web-site is not the end of the freaking world. Don't bicker. Move on to another thread or just don't participate. I happen to really like this site and will continue to visit it and write reviews when time permits. The only two other web-sites I visit are the official KC  and GG sites plus my e-mail. I hate complainers.

Peace and Love, vibrationbaby.