Bruford says Jazz is best
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19419
Printed Date: February 05 2025 at 19:37
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Topic: Bruford says Jazz is best
Posted By: Phil
Subject: Bruford says Jazz is best
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:11
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Bought a Bill Bruford album recently which had a free CD with it
sampling some of his Earthworks output. It included an interview with
him. In it he says (I parpaphrase) - "if a tennis player wants to be the best, he wants to play at Wimbledon. If a percussionist wants to be the best, he wants to play jazz. It's the ultimate technical challenge for a percussionist". He considers himself a jazz player who "played for about 20 minutes in a rock group" (meaning Yes). Bill doesn't talk much about his time with KC, but he seems more fond of them than Yes (the interview is mainly to plug Earthworks). So is he right - is jazz the pinnacle for any drummer, meaning only those that aren't up to the task stick with prog or rock? (PS I really like Bill Bruford's drumming......but he does come across as a bit of a snob in this interview!  ) |
Replies:
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:21
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Let's put it this way - Buddy Rich's rock playing is said to have sucked. If you don't feel a genre, you won't be able to play it well, no matter how technically skilled you are. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:27
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Tht's really relative, it's not strange, if you take in view that he (at least in yes) played in a jazzy way, but i don't know. I know a lot of drummers that says that jazz is the most difficult syle for a drummer, but i don't know if that's true 'cause i dont play drums. From my personal taste, i find that the most beautifull prog drumms are those who are very influenced by jazz, but... just my taste. Here in Uruguay there is this style called Candombe, a style where percusions are the most important part, and drummers from these lands says that Candombe is as difficult as Jazz.
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Posted By: soundspectrum
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:37
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JAzz is difficult because of it's use of polyrthyms. i think anything that uses polythrythms (greek, latin, and african music) is just as hard as jazz... |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:49
| Candombe uses polyrythms, it's a style made by black people that has been brought here as slaves from Africa, mixing the african's native styles with other music from here. Now is very modernized and you see drum playing bass and keyboards |
Posted By: Publius
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:53
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There's no such thing as prog drumming...nor prog anything really, you just have to play in counterpoint and polyrhythms, which are common in jazz. Jazz drumming is the best style of drumming for prog because it is complex, just how it should be. ------------- I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8 |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 09:56
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counterpoints are not only used in jazz, in fact in a lot of styles, like funk and also reggae, but i agree that there's no prog drumming style, it just take stuff from other styles of drumming, and different groups plays with differen styles. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 11:10
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If Bill thinks jazz is the nazz then so be it. But he's invading some very hallowed ground when he says that. From Joe Morello to Billy Cobham and Lenny White, he's got some serious competition. He was his most innovative with Yes because he was injecting very unconventional ways of playing around the downbeat when no other drummer on the charts was going there. Just listen to "Roundabout" and realize that it was actually a hit song! I've visited his website and am really disappointed in his attitude regarding his days with Yes. His arrogance is not justified in my book. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 11:10
| I really like Brufords' drumming, I admire his desire to improve himself, but I do think he's a bit of a musical snob! Mind you if I were to name who I thought were the best drummers I'd find myself with a list that included many jazz players, like Billy Cobham, Tony Williams, & Lenny White....as well as BB! |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 11:13
| Any style is as hard as one makes it. One could probably get away with playing more simple things in rock, but there's no need to. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 11:15
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Well the man did spend around two decades playing with Fripp If that does not affect you, nothing will! But you are right that his attitude can be a bit precious to rockers ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Phil wrote:
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 11:24
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 12:18
heheh true true If Bruford says that he spend 20 minutes in a rick band, then he must also consider KC to be jazz, right??? Well, in a way it is...he at least plays very jazzy drumms...I don´t mind if he is a bit of a snob...but actually I have heard that Bruford is a very down to earth kind of guy... ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 14:02
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Is it me or does everyone seem to avoid being categorized as prog like the plague? What's the deal with that? ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 15:32
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------------- 
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Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 16:13
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Some artists lose favor with their eariler work. Doesn't mean that you can't like it. anyways, as a drummer, Jazz drumming is incredibly difficult. while technical skills are of some help, the ability to lock into time and groove are paramount. Latin music is incredibly hard to play as well. Thirdly, I think Bill really hit his strie once he linked up with Fripp. but that doesn't take away anything he did with Yes, as he helped to make that band and those 1st few albums. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 16:33
| billy cobham rules :D. Drummers in prog bands are pretty much jazz drummers anyway. Bruford seems to be more of a rock drummer than most prog drummers. He pretty much only uses is his snare in vroom. He didn't need the cymbals, bass drum and tom toms, which was a bit disappointing ;) |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 16:52
| Progressive rock suits jazzy drumming. Fact. Bruford showed this, as do the likes of Pip Pyle and the late Pierre Moerlen. I'll have to disagree with Goose about any genre being as hard as you make it. That style of bland so-called rock churned out by the likes of Coldplay and Snow Patrol could never be as complex as Bruford's work with Yes or KC, let alone his later jazz-based work. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 17:16
or Mani Neumeier in Germany (who, by the way, started as a jazz drummer with the Irene Schweizer Trio and only switched to rock because quote Neumeier "all the young chicks went with the rock musicians" unquote) -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: February 24 2006 at 20:44
I remember seeing an interview with Bill regarding YES. He said they were a rock band with R&B vocals and jazz drumming. It's not a stretch to understand what he'd said. Rather "spot on" if you ask me. Polyrythms are the key. Many modern Prog Bands are missing that key ingredient. Too much 4/4 IMO. 
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 00:12
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I totally agree |
Posted By: IcedSabbath
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 00:28
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I agree with Bruford. Without going into too much detail, jazz appears to be the most difficult style of drumming to play. If you could play different styles of jazz drums, you could probably play anything. I should also note that I'm not a drummer... |
Posted By: S Lang
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 05:26
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To Bruford, jazz appears - rightly - as a progression. He is though, not a jazz drummer, more like a talented rock artist who appreciates the finer things and strives to be considered as one who can also deliver such thing.... He is no Chester Thompson though, Chester who can do practically anything in any genre. I used to love Bruford's tight drumming until he opted for the electronic drum pads. After that he was history to me. It just doesn't have the warmth. I am somewhat embarrassed to say that for many decades I ignored the talents of Ian Paice - yes, of Deep Purple. The guy could do a Buddy Rich any day - should he have the personal ambition. Pierre Moerlen did manage to swing and qualify to be considered as a jazz artist, Bruford keeps trying. I still love his solo (Canterbury) releases with Holdsworth, Jeff Berlin, Dave Stewart, though. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 06:36
You're not alone. One of the most underrated drummers in rock history. |
Posted By: TheLamb
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 06:41
An example for a modern prog drummer that uses complex time signatures and polyrythms is the guy from The Mars Volta, which I can't bother to remember his name..... Can't ever remember all those latin names :P ------------- 
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 07:36
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^ Jon Thedore...the best drummer ever...regardless of what genre! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif - |
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 07:49
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I've heard him say the same thing in other interviews, Bruford is
speaking here about training and education. Strictly in terms of what facilitates the best technical development for a drummer, jazz is essential, is what he's saying. It's not a qualitative assessment of genres, as if jazz is better than rock or classical. That's just his opinion on what brings the best technique. Certainly all the millions of rock drummers don't develop into virtuosos...with some experience in jazz, they have a better chance. Others, like Carl Palmer & Terry Bozzio, made their education in classical percussion. But this is no different than saying that for keyboardists, the best technical training is playing Bach's 2 and 3 part inventions, which few people would deny. As for his attitude to Yes, in the DVD Yesteryears he speaks very positively about the band and the experience, he was playing at this reunion recently, and said he's very into his solo career now, but if he were to play in a band again, it would be Yes. There's absolutely nothing "snobby" about his attitude. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 12:38
Is dificult a synonym of best? Seems many people here believes this is true because I have seen at least 100 times someone claiming a guitar player is better because he can't play his music and other virtuoso is mediocre becauise it was easy for him to play his solos. A jazz player may not fit in a prog or metal band and a metal drummer could have problems in a jazz group. Even a power trio drummer llike Palmer could have problems because of his strenght and loudness in a 6 piece band being that he would make the other instruments hard to listen. I just don't believe that difficult is always better. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 12:57
Where did you see Bruford anywherea Spyrogira album? The drummer is Dave Mattacks (as guest while he was in Fairport and future Jethro Tull - one of my least liked drummer) But Bruford is not mentioned in any of the three albums, or on the posthumous Burn The Bridge release He did have a link with Spyrogyra's Barbara Gaskin in National health ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 13:22
Seems you don't chek the mistake section of Prog Archives Hugues. I already posted this twice and if you check Prog Archives page for Spirogyra you'll find Bill Bruford added, in the three first albums. but if this is not enough, here's my original post: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17746&KW=Spirogyra - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17746& amp; amp; amp; amp;KW=Spirogyra
Seems they played with two drummers, and both are credited as guest musicians. And if you read my post I clearly mention he didn't played in Burn The Bridges released in year 2,000. But during the live of Spirogyra, Bruford played in every album. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 13:41
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Just in case, here is the lineup from Bells Boots & Shambles and Old Boot Wine: CREDITS http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/email/send.cgi?ALBUMID=981434">
http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/album/album.cgi?ALBUMID=981434 - http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/album/album.cgi?ALBUMID=98 1434 (Old Boot Wine in Musicmatch) CREDITS http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/email/send.cgi?ALBUMID=1089344">
http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/album/album.cgi?ALBUMID=1089344 - http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/album/album.cgi?ALBUMID=10 89344 (Bells, Boots & Shambles in Musicmatch) Iván -------------
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 13:56
 )
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Posted By: TheLamb
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 16:21
Thanks, hmmz that's not so hard to remember then... I thought it was another latin guy like rodrigez lopez santiago de rodrigo el montana.... or something like that..... he's a great drummer I agree............ mm..... best? I'm not that sure. He's great though... Wow there's some amazing drumming on Frances the Mute.... -------------
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Posted By: zabriskiepoint
Date Posted: February 25 2006 at 16:45
hermano charruaaaa |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 01:43
La Garra Charrua se hace presente en Progarchives jajajajaj!!!
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Posted By: Jmoog
Date Posted: February 27 2006 at 08:10
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Quite simply Bill Bruford is my favorite drummer of all time. I do think that he can be a bit of a snob but with the talent level that he possesses I'll let him slide. Speaking as a multi-instrumentalist who dabbles in drums I would have to agree with Bruford about the Jazz thing. I don't think there is a more demanding style of drumming out there. I guess you could say Prog but a lot of the drumming styles used in Prog come right out of the Jazz dictionary anyway. |