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Carmina, an unknown zeuhl band - Pt. 2

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=133164
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 11:55
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Topic: Carmina, an unknown zeuhl band - Pt. 2
Posted By: ThyroidGlands
Subject: Carmina, an unknown zeuhl band - Pt. 2
Date Posted: June 29 2024 at 12:48
A few months ago, I shared the video I uploaded to YouTube of a concert by this band, and I mentioned that I had a second (and final) recording that I would soon upload. Well, here it is.



00:00 Hamra (early version)
15:19 Track 2
55:02 Track 3
1:14:19 Track 4

Olivier BROCHART: keyboards, vocals.
Michel DEUNEUVE: vibraphone, keyboards, percussion, vocals.
Benoit LALLEMANT: vocals, percussion.
Michel RADEL: bass.
Manuel DENIZET: drums.

For those who haven't seen it or don't remember the post, here's a brief introduction to the band with all the available information about them:

Let me introduce you to Carmina, a Zeuhl band from Chaumont, France, known for singing in Latin. There's very little information about this band, and I wanted to recommend it here because it's not in the Zeuhl section, nor has it ever been mentioned on the forum (yes, it's that obscure). The scant information available about this band can be found on the Kohntarkosz Blog. The band opened for Magma a couple of times in 1976, although apparently, their musical direction differed slightly in 1977.

Not very much is known about this band. Very few recordings exist. The drummer, Manuel Denizet, later went on to play with John Greaves of Henry Cow fame. And, according to Canterbury expert Aymeric Leroy, Gisselman was supposed to join National Health. And, from the Ork Alarm article, "Phillippe Gisselman to join Yochk'o Seffer's Neffesh Music. Gisselman then joined Serge Bringolf's Strave and worked with Seffer on John Greaves album 'Accident' in 1982."



This is the concert I shared that time, from May 24, 1977, when they opened for Nico. Here is what seems to be the final version of Hamra.

I wanted to bring this band to your attention so at least some of you can get to know them, as they're unknown even on Progarchives. I thought about putting them in the "Unsigned Bands" section since they don't have official releases, but they're not an active band.

If anyone has information about this band, can contact any member of it, knows someone who might know something about them, or was a member of it, it would be great if you could comment. And if someone can get in touch with the people at Soleil Zeuhl to see if they know anything, that would be great.


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Bloody bloody racket and rumpus



Replies:
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: June 30 2024 at 04:37
This is what ChatGPT has to say about it:

Carmina, a relatively obscure zeuhl band from the 1970s, hails from Chaumont, France. This band, though largely unknown, is of particular interest due to its unique contributions to the zeuhl subgenre, characterized by its intense and celestial sound, heavily influenced by the pioneering band Magma.

Carmina's most notable period was around 1976-1977, during which they opened for Magma on several occasions. Their lineup consisted of Olivier Brochart on keyboards and vocals, Michel Deuneuve on vibraphone, keyboards, percussion, and vocals, Benoit Lallemant on vocals and percussion, Michel Radel on bass, and Manuel Denizet on drums【6†source】【8†source】. 

One of their prominent performances was recorded in Angers on May 24, 1977. This concert showcased a piece titled "Hamra," an extensive work nearly forty minutes long, highlighting their ambitious musical style. The band's instrumentation during this era featured a mix of drums, dual keyboards, vibes, bass, and male vocals【7†source】.

Despite their potential, Carmina did not release any official recordings, and much of their music is known through bootleg recordings and transfers from old cassettes. These recordings capture the essence of their live performances and the evolving sound that differentiated their 1976 lineup from their later configurations【6†source】【8†source】.

Carmina's distinctiveness also lies in their choice of language for their lyrics, often using Latin, which adds a mystical and archaic dimension to their music, resonating with the otherworldly themes typical of zeuhl【8†source】.

Given the scarcity of official releases, the primary sources of information about Carmina are dedicated blogs and forums such as Kohntarkosz, which focus on zeuhl and progressive rock, and where fans occasionally share rare recordings and reminiscences【6†source】【7†source】. For anyone interested in exploring the depths of zeuhl beyond the well-known bands, Carmina offers a fascinating, albeit challenging, journey into a niche yet profoundly imaginative corner of progressive rock music.


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: June 30 2024 at 05:39
I personally wouldn't use ChatGPT to get info about a band as obscure as this. :p It seems like the more obscure the subject, which you "ask" the bot to "write" about, the more it is likely it's gonna output incredibly vague results with vanilla commentary.

Also, you didn't preserve the links to the sources when you pasted that.

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong


Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: June 30 2024 at 08:40
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I personally wouldn't use ChatGPT to get info about a band as obscure as this. :p It seems like the more obscure the subject, which you "ask" the bot to "write" about, the more it is likely it's gonna output incredibly vague results with vanilla commentary.

Also, you didn't preserve the links to the sources when you pasted that.

It breaks the web if I try to paste it regularly for some reason.

But it was basically what the OP already shared. As you can read when it quotes PA. So, basically, ThyroidGland seems to be the biggest expert in the topic. 


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: June 30 2024 at 08:54
It's a matter of preference. Since you openly labeled that text as generated with ChatGPT, it's all good. 😎👌

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong


Posted By: ThyroidGlands
Date Posted: June 30 2024 at 09:50
Well, ChatGPT also says this about Carmina:

"Carmina has released several albums that have been well received by Zeuhl enthusiasts. Their records are typically characterized by complex musical structures, intense atmospheres, and a strong vocal and instrumental presence."

Not even ChatGPT has any idea about this band.



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Bloody bloody racket and rumpus


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 02 2024 at 08:18
Hi,

I've heard, so far, over 20 minutes of the thing ... the only comment I have is, how it is "slower" than Magma in terms of evolving the themes and continuing. That part is rather nice, actually, and while I would not suggest that sometimes Magma is too fast, they do know, and show it, what they are doing and why and how. I had the thought (I had the thought!!!) that this band was taking it slow, so they could make sure that their material made it as far as they could take it ... 

I can't say this is good or bad. I kinda think of it as a slight copy of Magma, but there are subtle differences that make it stand out as well ... 

I will continue to listen, and will redo this blurb if needed. It's nice stuff, but I have to admit that it did not slpa me awake like Magma did when I first heard it. Maybe I was already well sided with the "style" and the "idea", but I am not sure that this is as strong or valuable as Magma has been with their work.

I wonder if we became enticed by Magma's use of their own language for what they do, which, of course, means that you and I do not really know what is going on, even if Christian Bander gives us a hint or two in the liner notes, or other ways. For me, this is a serious issue for a lot of the zeuhl bands out there, and somehow, formal lyrics do not seem to work as well, probably because we have already heard the original, and everything else is not as strong.


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: meurdhek
Date Posted: August 27 2024 at 02:33
Hello ! This is my first post on this forum. I'm discovering it thanks to your YTBE video on Carmina. Thanks for posting this. I'm very into zeuhl and have a lot of stuff like this. Could you share with me the original files of your Youtube posts on Carmina? That would be great :-)


Posted By: ThyroidGlands
Date Posted: August 28 2024 at 18:28
Yes, of course! What is your email?

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Bloody bloody racket and rumpus



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