Van Der Graaf Generator
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131998
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 01:42
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Van Der Graaf Generator
Posted By: Chord Change
Subject: Van Der Graaf Generator
Date Posted: November 01 2023 at 17:05
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Shockingly, there is no thread that I could find with search for Van Der Graaf Generator. Some have asserted that they are "allergic to that peculiar voice" in the album reviews, to which I believe your prog enthusiast credentials should be automatically revoked if that is the case. I am going to make the claim here that Hamill is a god tier musician and the team of Banton, Evans and Jackson are highly underrated. The fact that either Pawn Hearts or H To He are not in the Top 10 All Time list actually should be against the law. To any readers, I highly recommend the book 'Van der Graaf Generator in the 1970s: Decades' I do not recommend the On Track book unless you want to read someone describing the tracks of the 2004+ era albums. |
Replies:
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 01 2023 at 17:17
 ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 01 2023 at 17:47
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For Me, Still Life remains their best effort, but all their records are fantastic! ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 01 2023 at 23:55
PA wise Pawn Hearts and Godbluff are numbers 11 and 12. lol. I've long regarded Pawn Hearts as one of the best albums ever made prog or not. I would say that 1970 -1975 will never be matched for creativity in rock and prog music. VDGG are well up there, certainly a Top Ten Prog band and many would put them ahead of the likes of ELP and Camel. It's just good to have all these bands to listen to!
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Chord Change wrote:Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 05:59
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My favourite albums are 1. H to He 2. Godbluff 3. Still Life ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 06:04
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There have been a few of their records I haven't heard, but 1) Still Life 2) Godbluff 3) Pawn Hearts 4) H to He 5) World Record 6) The Least We Can do is Wave to Each Other 7) Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome 8) Present 9) Do Not Disturb and I have yet to listen to the rest of their catalouge, all of these are fantastic records, like King Crimson, they have no 'bad' albums ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 06:25
I like much to see this when talking about Progressive Rock. I also agree much in that case, even I wouldn't put it in such an objective way, and "never say never" - but I don't think we will experience it again.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 06:44
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Sadly, there doesn't seem to be much hope for another record from the group, leaving Do Not Disturb as a fitting send-off, it seems intentional that the last track they put out was titled 'Go', it seems they know they won't release another album, sad, but one must consider the age of the band ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 07:02
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Ranking VDGG's 13 Studio Albums 01.  1970: The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBP7gSa4G4wrUWTTlj2W_75" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBP7gSa4G4wrUWTTlj2W_75 02. 1970: H to He, Who Am the Only One - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDXW5vepShO5dF2126hcOUV" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDXW5vepShO5dF2126hcOUV 03.  1969: The Aerosol Grey Machine - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCpCWgcjr6WImrJ1KR4-xeQ" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCpCWgcjr6WImrJ1KR4-xeQ 04.  1975: Godbluff - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBXeu6ex9Aj-Oe7IPuF2zZR" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBXeu6ex9Aj-Oe7IPuF2zZR 05. 1976: Still Life - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzA7mBv_pBwS6qqutttXdZE2" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzA7mBv_pBwS6qqutttXdZE2 06. 1976: World Record - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCzfrki6u7F5DccGmU6G5Gt" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCzfrki6u7F5DccGmU6G5Gt 07. 1977: The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBvlXxx72XqK7UXnVGu49Mh" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBvlXxx72XqK7UXnVGu49Mh 08.  1972: Pawn Hearts - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzD_44Y4-KWyVY9UUPE1eyR5" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzD_44Y4-KWyVY9UUPE1eyR5 09. 2005: Present - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCYFqLXP-uzK_JkzSpnD977" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCYFqLXP-uzK_JkzSpnD977 10. 2008: Trisector - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzAHuQS-mM5bh-7Wd7DXoAhR" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzAHuQS-mM5bh-7Wd7DXoAhR 11. 2011: A Grounding in Numbers - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBGJNDad3BRCxvKiBxAGI-y" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBGJNDad3BRCxvKiBxAGI-y 12. 2012: ALT - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzC-niSKdAKrkxkKwNvygP7g" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzC-niSKdAKrkxkKwNvygP7g 13. 2016: Do Not Disturb - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBftm-VB4JPteX-n2yDLD0Z" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBftm-VB4JPteX-n2yDLD0Z |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 08:16
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01: Pawn Hearts is not just my favourite VdGG album, but my favourite album, period. 02: H to He, Who Am the Only One 03: The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other 04: The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome 05: World Record 06: A Grounding in Numbers 07: The Aerosol Grey Machine 08: Godbluff 09: Still Life 10: Trisector 11: Present 12: Do Not Disturb 13: ALT ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 08:50
Hi, In my book, the folks that do not like/care PH's vocals, are the rock'n'roll fans that go with their favorites and they don't like singers that know what they are talking about and what they are saying. Those folks will soon say that Bob Dylan is a turkey, that Roy Harper is crap, and that other well known "poets" don't belong in rock music! I agree that their "credentials" should be revoked, but then, that's like saying that The Grateful Dead was not progressive, and hearing the recent release of their first couple of albums and the different versions of some of their material, it's hard to not think something like ... no progressive folks ever heard this? I'm positive that Steve Howe did and learned to flow from it. Those new versions that made their bootlegs famous, are now available and they are worth it ... however, it is way too late for the "history" of progressive music to be changed, specially when we don't believe in history and only the solo matters! Expression, is what has made rock music famous ... and the best will always be remembered ... but to progressive folks, even hearing Janis Joplin is not possible because of her expressions and obvious state of mind in many of the pieces. Gimme "Ball and Chain" from that far out album (Cheap Thrills") and it is a lesson about a voice/vocal, not to mention a guitar style that was copied senselessly in "progressive" music! But folks here, don't like finding out that there were other things out there that might disturb their idea of their top five!  ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 10:34
To be honest, this combination of ranking suprises me, so I'd like to hear your reason for ranking Godbluff so lowly. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 11:09
yeah it's just an opinion but I feel quite comfortable with it
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Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 13:14
Although "Scorched Earth" is currently #4 in my ranking of VdGG tracks, and "Arrow" is also one of my favourite VdGG tracks, the other two tracks are not particularly appealing to me. Bear in mind that the alternative question is why I ranked World Record, A Grounding in Numbers, and The Aerosol Grey Machine higher (I think my top four is uncontroversial). In the case of World Record, this was my initial exposure to VdGG, and thus I am somewhat indebted to the album for enriching my musical tastes. Although the second half of this album is relatively weak, the first half is very strong, "A Place to Survive" rivalling "Scorched Earth" as one of my top favourites. In the case of A Grounding in Numbers, this is a very much underrated album where the trio have found their sound without David Jackson. The sound is somewhat different to earlier VdGG though they do hark back to familiar earlier times on occasion. Also, as a person who is into mathematics, I appreciate the title of the album and a song about Euler's identity. In the case of The Aerosol Grey Machine, this is where it all started. They hadn't yet found their sound but they certainly hint at it throughout the album. I do enjoy most if not all of the tracks on this album. One thing I like about VdGG is how varied their music is, so I can appreciate albums as diverse as Pawn Hearts, The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome, World Record, A Grounding in Numbers, and The Aerosol Grey Machine. I've never been one who wanted a Pawn Hearts II, with Pawn Hearts, H to He, Who Am the Only One, The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other, and the second half of Time Vaults providing that early-period VdGG sound that I love so very much. I should remark that between 08: Godbluff and 09: Still Life in my list is the boundary between VdGG albums I like and VdGG albums I never really got into. So I do like Godbluff, it just happens to be my least favourite of the albums I like. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 14:06
| @Chord Change. Are you the author of the recommended book? |
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 14:39
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1) Godbluff. 2) Still Life. 3) Pawn Hearts. 4?) The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage. 5) H to He, Who Am the Only One. By the way, I really, really recommend Ring van Möbius: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=10636" rel="nofollow - https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=10636 It is basically VdGG meets ELP: http://ringvanmbius.bandcamp.com/album/commissioned-works-pt-ii-six-drops-of-poison" rel="nofollow - https://ringvanmbius.bandcamp.com/album/commissioned-works-pt-ii-six-drops-of-poison One of the highlights of the year for me at least.
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Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 15:01
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I think Peter Hammill has been, and continues to be, as creatively prolific and culturally important (or more so) as, say, David Bowie (certainly in Europe) but has he been recognized as such?? I have always really enjoyed all the VDGG classic lps but its Chameleon in the shadow of the night, Silent corner and the empty stage and Nadir's big chance that have always really given me full on goose-bumps. I do recall that someone (possibly Guy Evans) said that Peter Hammill could really do with an editor! He really has been a remarkably prolific artist! In regards 'allergic reactions to certain voices' i note lots of similar comments about Roger Chapman of Family who i also adore! ------------- |
Posted By: Dapper~Blueberries
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 15:04
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VDGG took me a while to get into but they are so awesome! Pawn Hearts and H To He are my favorite albums from them. Peter Hammill's solo discography is also excellent, Silent Corner, Chameleon, Nadir, and A Black Box are just fantastic prog records. Hammill is the unsung hero of the current prog landscape for me. ------------- D~B |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 15:17
Hi, Thank you so much ... his work in both Family and Streetwalkers ... is so special in my book! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 17:02
I give it a new listen. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 17:22
i'd love to hear your reasoning behind these, i'm curious, why? ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 17:50
See his later post. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 18:01
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^ I see about Godbluff, but I need more on Still Life ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 18:44
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Regarding not finding anything, one has to use advanced search and set the date to any time as it defaults to the last week. Good to have an appreciation thread! Van der Graaf Generator is one of my favourite bands, and may well be my favourite of the bands that does get discussed a lot amongst the big names. I favour the 1970-1971 trio of albums, The Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other, H to He Who Am the Only One, and Pawn Hearts -- "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" especially remains magical to these ears. I do like the other 70s albums very much too. And I like the 70s Peter Hammill albums a great deal. |
Posted By: Chord Change
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 22:42
Loving all the replies. It seems here that VDGG are indeed very much appreciated. 
Moshkito, I would love to read your book. Please let me know where I can find this content! I also very much like the Cheap Thrills album, Janis was a truly great musician.
Hehe, I know. I was being a little cheeky. I just don't see the warrant of three PF albums and two Genesis albums in the Top 10, even though I would consider those albums very essential listening, they all sound pretty similar to each other, sonically. I guess this site is after all visited by people who where alive to buy these albums when they were released and VDGG never sold anywhere near close to PF or there label mates, Genesis. I agree with your dates. I am guessing this was the cut-off for classically trained generation of musicians with an affinity for blues.
I wish!  I have read both books recently, one after the other and I feel like I can save most people some money and time by recommending one over the other. The 'On Track' book is literally just descriptions of the albums and song. Where as 'Decades' does the descriptions (much better descriptions) for the 70's album and also includes autobiographical content, explaining all the very interesting tours VDGG were involved in, the timeline and trajectory for each of the members and what ultimately lead to their demise in the 70s, the book also touches on the reunion and other titbits including the PH albums of the 70s and Banton's organ building.
I completely agree.
Thanks for the search tip. I certainly am living up to the rank of "Forum Newbie". I probably should have made this a VDGG/Peter Hamill thread. My rankings are as such for the 70s, please note that I like all VDGG albums, unlike most bands that come back after 30 odd years, they still create remarkable whole albums, no fillers for this band. There 70s work is my favourite though, I haven't given enough time to the 2004+ albums to rank them. 1. H To He Who, Am The Only One 2. Pawn Hearts 3. Godbluff 4. World Record 5. Still Life 6. The Aerosol Grey Machine 7. The Least We Can Do Is Wave At Each Other
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 02 2023 at 23:05
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VdGG/VdG 1969-1977 are like KC 1969-1974 to me - and a vital part of my musical DNA. Two bands and fifteen albums I know I'll always return to. I've listened to the five first albums underneath in particular so many times that I know every song and every second by heart. The music is still packs an emotional punch every time. 01: Pawn Hearts 02: H to He, Who Am the Only One 03: Godbluff 04: The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome 05: The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other 06: World Record 07: Still Life 08: The Aerosol Grey Machine -The rest is quality too, but I have to admit I never listen to any of them. I guess I also have to admit that they feel less essential to me. Maybe that gets in the way of the listening experience somehow. Anyway they're really not fresh enough in memory for me to rank them. I should give A Grounding in Numbers another spin someday soon. I remember listening and thinking "hey this is really, really good!" - but I haven't returned to it in the last decade. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 01:10
| When I decided to give them a try, I ended up ordering their highest rated run, from The Least we can Do to Still Life... without having heard anything from them first. When the albums finally arrived, my first impression was that I finally went too far. However, thankfully the first song from the first album was Darkness, so that one soon grew on me and I kept listening. Refugees was a good anchor too. I wouldn't say I like every single song they made, but those that I do like, oh man, they are a ride indeed. About Hamill, my impression is that he has the chops to be one of the most technically gifter singers around, but somehow he just went anoher way... perhaps not as technically perfect as he could have been, but unique and great all the same... and not for everyone. As for the sax, David Jackson has become my favourite sax player around (not that I know so very many, though). |
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 01:58
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Pawn Hearts Godbluff H to He, Who Am the Only One
The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other World Record Still Life The Aerosol Grey Machine |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 06:53
Hi, Thank you very kindly. I appreciate it well, and a lot. PA, while having its good points and "thing", in the end, is way too commercial for me, and only "using" folks that are more attuned to "code" than music, is a bit of a problem. When you can't punt, you try to run a fake somewhere, right? ... and create a new area for some music! While not perfect, in some ways, it is a bit scary in that it is simply spreading folks away from "progressive" and into other areas ... however, the amount of music and things available today, are 50 (or more) times more than they were 50 years ago, so it is likely that more sub-genre's would be needed. PA, for all intents and purposes, is "my book" ... even though I am not sure that many folks here care or think of it that way, and some that do not even appreciate my point of view, which is far more historical than most folks that post here, who are almost exclusively attuned to "hit" and the "numbers", than they are into the music itself. My "book" is about its history, since, otherwise the art form will disappear and never thought of again, and this is the danger of a lot of this music going back to the late 60's ... in those days it was the media telling you that the sex, drugs and rock'n'roll was evil and bad ... today, the record companies continue pushing "numbers" and folks believe in them left and right, and they don't even realize "where" the music comes from and whose money is leading it! Thus, my point of view, is often contrary to many stated here and there and everywhere. I wish, that more folks were ATTUNED to the music, a lot more than they are towards their favorites, and they will be all over the favorite threads ... to show their choice. In the end, many of those folks do not realize how they are being brainwashed into something ... when you hear a song 150 times, parts of it cement to your brain. When you hear something totally different, guess what you compare it to? And it is difficult to get out of it and think something new is good, because what you are used to is leading you away. I don't have an answer ... just the hope that this music, AND ART SCENE, can survive a better idea than just some kind of numbers ... so that it can be taken seriously instead of only looked at by some database folks that might not exactly have the music's best interests in mind ... things have to fit into the "database" ... idea! The scene was preceded slightly by film and theater, and then cemented with jazz and finally came alive with rock music, the sales of which killed the selling of classical music that dropped into the toilets everywhere, and even mentioning it here ... too many folks go ... wtf???? I like to joke that "classical music" died ... and went to heaven, of course!" (... certainly not PA!) Again, thanks a bunch ... and welcome to the board ...
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: TheNefariousHED
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 07:49
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Simply one of the greatest rock bands ever, prog or not. Little sign of decay in their latter releases as well. ------------- http://churchofhed.com" rel="nofollow - Church of Hed https://quarkspace.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - CoH/Quarkspace Bandcamp |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 07:57
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I'm curious, does anyone have any information on if they'll release another record and/or do another tour? (I don't expect anyone too, and I doubt they will, but I'm curious) ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 08:34
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Has everyone listened to this album? The video is just a preview.
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Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 10:33
I'm disappointed that Peter Hammill is only on the first track. I bought the CD (from Bandcamp) when I really should only have bought the digital album. The main value of the album should be derived from The Amorphous Androgynous rather than Peter Hammill. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 10:41
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If looking closer at the rather early VdGG albums, I see in Pawn Hearts quite a lot of melodical similarity with H to He, and the same in Godbluff comparing to Pawn Hearts. That is one of the reasons for I haven't got Pawn Hearts in my collection.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 10:47
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 11:41
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VDGG are surely one of the greats, an always unique, deep and fascinating band. I think I've seen Peter Hammill five times live, solo (3) and with VDGG (2); I'm not sure anyone has reached six. Regarding albums I just make the observation that The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome is a stunningly good album, I have always rated it as high as Pawn Hearts and Still Life, my other two favourites of theirs. But then for some reason I never could make much sense out of Godbluff. Another great one that not many people love is ALT. Never standing still and often good for surprises...
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 11:46
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I have to say that I couldn't get into VDGG at first. This was about 20 years ago or so. I had the same troubles as I did with Gentle Giant. Then one day it clicked and I've enjoyed almost their entire discography, not just the 1970s, but also more recent releases. I would rank them in this order: 1. Pawn Hearts 2. H to He, Who Am the Only One 3. The Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other 4. Godbluff 5. World Record 6. A Grounding in Numbers 7. Trisector 8. Present 9. Do Not Disturb 10. Still Life 11. The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome 12. The Aerosol Grey Machine 13. ALT We're having a party at my place on August 14, 1972. Warm up your time machines! ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 11:48
Much of what I wrote above also applies to Still Life. However, the order in which I was first exposed to VdGG studio albums is: 1: World Record 2: Pawn Hearts 3: The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome 4&5: H to He, Who Am the Only One and Godbluff (which I got at the same time) 6: Still Life 7: The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other 8: The Aerosol Grey Machine ...etc... For the first five albums of this list, I enjoyed the album either from the first listen or maybe after just a few listens, but Still Life failed to grab me. I do like the title track as well as "La Rossa", but the others, not so much. I recall feeling at the time that the music on this album was a bit clichéd, and subsequently rarely visited the album. That didn't stop me from getting The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other, which I loved immediately that early-period sound (actually, I recently promoted this album to third position after listening to it quite regularly now). It was quite a long time after getting my first seven albums that The Aerosol Grey Machine eventually became available to me. Around the turn of the century, I embarked on digitally recording all of my vinyl records. For most of these, I manually removed any obvious scratches, but for my favourites, I diligently removed every scratch that I could hear. This meant intensive listening to Still Life, which I thought may have finally led me to appreciate the album. In a way, it did, but ultimately I rarely returned to the album. I don't dislike Still Life, but unlike the albums before it in my first list, it just doesn't appeal to me. I should remark that the albums after Still Life in my first list are all modern-day albums that have not received much attention from me. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 11:51
I think, it would be much better if the thread title was the full name. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 12:00
Heaven forbid anybody would confuse this for a thread about variable digestions of giant granadillas!  ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 13:13
If I don't remember incorrectly, Hammill's samples are to be found all over the album. The whole things is just a collection of variations of the first track. I thought that it was pretty interesting and masterfully mixed. I particularly enjoyed the Psych Recap.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 03 2023 at 15:05
I guess you don't own Foxtrot either?
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 03:55
Yes, I certainly do. Actually, Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, SEbtP and The Lamb. And regarding ELP, I own the debut, Tarkus, Pictures, Trilogy and BSS. How come this difference comparing to VdGG? Not least because I don't see the same melodical similarity betwen all these albums. Also in that way, I don't see the same melodical creativity in VdGG as in Genesis and ELP.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 04:15
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^I'm guessing richardh is trying to follow your logic, or lack thereof. At least if you had replied "correct I don't" to his question - that would have made a similar (non)sense to me. And that is probably what the comparison was about. Not so much the music. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 04:56
It's much a matter of the way, one collects. To me, diversity is very important, but I don't want to have a big collection. So my collection is "only" of about 500 albums but representing 360 artists from a very large number of styles and countries around the world, and also representing all the decades between 1950 and 2020. And then, I don't like to listen to an album and hear much of another one in it.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 05:06
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^ but Pawn Hearts is a prog masterpiece and if you like the VdGG-albums released before and after it, it's silly not to get to know what many considers their artistic peak on a deeper level. The similarities Pawn Hearts shares with the H to He..., is that the music is made by the same band. Pawn Hearts builds on where the band comes from, but it's grander, wilder, more ambitious and takes bigger risks than ever before. Just normal artistic development. The songs and the themes are brand new. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 06:48
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As I see it, H to He was the true masterpiece, including the lyrics and cover art. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 06:54
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^Sure. They're both among my (relatively few) five stars. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 06:59
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I wouldn't call any VdGG release a masterpiece.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 07:02
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Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: November 04 2023 at 07:45
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By the way, the remixes of the classic albums by Stephen W Tayler are absolutely top-notch. I guess that if your initials are SW, you are a genius of remastering and remixing old progressive rock masterpieces. Here you can read an interview done to Stephen about his work: http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/tayler_interview_july21.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/tayler_interview_july21.htm
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Posted By: Chord Change
Date Posted: November 05 2023 at 21:08
I agree. Title changed
Without assuming too much, I think I understand your sentiments and I have had similar feelings in the past about music in general. I'm a big fan of a lot of different genre's/sounds of the past and I like looking for the roads less travelled, for lack of a better musical term. I also like popular music and anything that sounds good.
Evans and Banton really stepped their playing up after The Least We Can Do... Evans' playing on H To He and especially Pawn Hearts is actually extraordinary. The albums in question do have some similarities, both contain Fripp guitar on one track for each album. Same studio, same producer and the same instruments(which I believe are stolen on the subsequent tour). The album artwork for Pawn Hearts is by Paul Whitehead just like H To He. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 06 2023 at 04:04
Obviously a lot of opinion in there and admittedly I was being facecious. To me there is a much bigger difference between Pawn Hearts and Godbluff than Foxtrot to Selling England By The Pound. ELP is a very tricky example because they used a huge amount of equipment compared to Genesis and VDGG. Emerson was keen to exploit everything Bob Moog gave him while Palmer started using drum synths in 1973. On top of that Lake's vocal dropped an octave or so! By 1973 they sounded quite a bit different to when they started.
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 06 2023 at 16:48
I was only talking about the melodical side of it. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 06 2023 at 17:19
| I don't have much to say about them. I know them better than some but not as well as others. They were probably one of the first "lesser known" prog bands I heard of but it took a long time for me to finally hear their music. I was really into them for a while but I listen to so much different stuff that I can't say that I am an expert on their music. Still, a good band to come back to every so often. Some favorite songs include "killer,""pilgrims," and "undercover man." |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 06 2023 at 20:44
do you mean compositional side otherwise I have no idea what that means
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 07 2023 at 04:42
the tunes ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 08 2023 at 02:41
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I can't say, I'm more fond of my VdGG albums than those of Genesis or ELP, but comparing to King Crimson's, the answer might be "yes", even not easy - and at least Jethro Tull's, even I love Aqualung. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Van Jackson
Date Posted: November 09 2023 at 11:10
| I love VDGG. H to HE, Pawn Hearts, Godbluff; all exemplary, top-tier prog! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 09 2023 at 13:35
Hi, Interesting that you would ask that ... I, for one, having been there from the very start (one of my first albums was H to He) in 1969 or so. maybe a year later. As much work as he has given us, over the years, even as a solo artist, I have no thoughts of more works, and if he retires, to my way of thinking, his now having the time to smell the flowers outside, and enjoy a sunset or two, is a rest that he probably deserves. I imagine that he will still leave us with 1000 pages of poems and whatnot! When you look at it, from an artist point of view, in the history of the arts, music, literature, painting for example, there are not as many folks that just created so much work, and did it so well and beautifully, for our enjoyment. We may like this or that better, but in the end, the amount of work is one of the most valuable and important of all singer/songwriters ever and he deserves that credit! I don't think that many, if anyone, will get close to his talent and listing of works.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 10 2023 at 02:56
Given that Peter Hammill had a rather serious heart problem (as far as I know) during the last tour, and given his age, I think it's rather unlikely, although he had gone through this before and came back. Of course I can't know any details about his health but I'm not optimistic in this respect.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 10 2023 at 07:18
Hi, I rather think that he needs to slow down and admit to himself that doing concerts is not healthy anymore and that he is ravaging himself each and every time he sings a lot of his work. I can see some solo albums making it through, but not live concerts, unless something comes off his home in a live recording setting, which I bet will be as good, if not better than anything else, and likely not as stressful, with all the goings on of travelling and setup, sound check, and then show ... making for a day that is way too long for anyone his age! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 22 2023 at 12:02
I can add that this characteristic of VdGG is also evident when comparing Still Life with Godbluff. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 22 2023 at 16:55
^Right now they're playing Childlike Faith in Childhood's End on Prog Radio (My suggestion). I love VDGG, but I get why some don't like them, but Each album has it's own sound to it. They don't make Stop-Gap albums. I don't see much of a similarity between Godbluff and Pawn Hearts, but hey, to each his own  This is why Still Life is VDGG's best , Lyrically, Vocally, and perhaps even musically their finest moment. (Even the album art work is their best)------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 23 2023 at 10:04
I surely like Still Life, just not listen to it shortly after Godbluff. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 26 2023 at 12:14
BTW, I can add that I'm also more fond of my VdGG albums than those of Yes - if talking about The Big Ones. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 26 2023 at 20:12
They're completely different records, both 10/10 records. Just... different. Still Life is sad, yet hopeful. Godbluff sounds angry, almost Punk-Ish. Hard to describe the sound of Godbluff, it's just so unique. ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 27 2023 at 07:31
HI, Poetry is like that ... tomorrow a different set of lines creates something else, and my take is that some folks don't like PH/VdGG mainly because it changes so much ... there is a similarity in that the instruments are often the same (same with all bands, no?), but it stops there. Since PH does his poetry, and not just lyrics for a song, it is different. It's more about the livelihood of the words than it is about it being a song. This, to me, is an issue to a lot of fans, even here, that I'm not sure they know the difference between "lyrics" and a "poem" ... and, of course, when you see the master singers that are about the poetry and not quite a song, things get tough. PH is not the only one. There are many out there ... but they are not always in one of the "top" bands, because their material is very different, and often changes from album to album ... of course it does ... the poem tomorrow is not the same as the poem today, regardless of what fans want and say! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 27 2023 at 08:33
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^Ah, but that's also what makes many of us love Van Der Graaf Generator and Mr. Hammill! Hammill is a master at his craft. The music is ever changing. It's challenging, I love it that way. On many a day, I could site them as being my favorite band. ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 27 2023 at 13:38
I'm most fond of the cover art of H to He, but I like the front cover of Still Life too, and especially on the original German version, where the colour of the lettering is different and the whole front cover maybe a bit darker.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: November 27 2023 at 13:47
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What Mr Hammill has been up to recently https://www.loudersound.com/features/peter-hammill-rerecord-albums" rel="nofollow - “Am I Prog’s Taylor Swift? That’s a debate that could run and run”: why Peter Hammill re-recorded his Enigma-era albums | Louder (loudersound.com) ------------- |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 28 2023 at 03:36
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Regarding VdGG lyrics, H to He are definitely my favourite ones and very probably also most favourite all-time disregarding the genre. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 28 2023 at 04:13
Good news as it probably means that he is OK health-wise. I'm not great on re-recordings generally but he has a point that those weren't recorded that well and the material is probably better than it originally sounded. (To be honest I always had the impression that mixing and recording isn't his major skill; some of his albums could've been better with a more professional hand in that respect. Which of course means my expectations for the re-recordings aren't that high.)
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Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: November 28 2023 at 04:17
My vote goes to Childlike Faith In Childhood's End for best VDGG lyrics ------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time... |