NOT to say there isn't great music being made now, but the greatest prog was made in the 70s. (Just look at the top albums list) 

The classic era of prog is "almost over" ?   It's been over since 1981.   You, Billy, of all people should know that.

Pretty sure you read that wrong, unless you were just joking 

I'm stuck between baby boomers and the Gen X (not Z) generation. I was 14 in 77, but fortunately, I started early (age 11 in 74) both prog and rock, so I caught the tail end of the golden era.

However, one of my biggest sores is not to have been born 10 years sooner, so I could've been ready in 67 (at 14 instad of 4), rather than 77. Hey, who knows if I'd been precocious, I'd have opened to music & I might've even lived through modal jazz era and enjoyed it.

And if I'd been born 10 years sooner, I'd also be retired now instead of slaving away for another 5 years to come.

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Frets N Worries wrote: ... but the greatest prog was made in the 70s. (Just look at the top albums list)  Your wrong. Just because something is popular does not mean it's better.

Nope, you is wrong

Without the 70's prog pioneers, there wouldn't be "modern prog"

Hi,

This is tough, but one of the issues with a lot of art.

Do you say the same thing about Mozart? Beethoven? Stravinsky? Shakespeare?

The answer is NO.

The "history" of the arts is full of "movements" that created a lot of art, and what became known as "progressive" was one of them ... if you appreciate them as the artistic greatness that they had, then, you have nothing to worry about, and "seeing them" is not necessary ... appreciating the great work is!

You grow into that as you get older. I never had the chance to see Vangelis, Peter Hammill, Amon Duul 2 or even Mike Oldfield ... but it does not diminish my appreciation for the beauty in their work. And this is the most important side of it all, not the fan idea that you have to see and touch in order to "understand" and "remember" ... or worse, to get a stupid piece of the pig!!! ... something which is more of a media thing than it is anything having to do with the art, although we always find that there is something that the live music also offers ... but if you can't feel that when you see the video, you are not listening, and neither are you "feeling" ... things right.

I can not watch a bunch of the Tangerine Dream videos anymore, since so many of them have moments that make me cry, for the beauty of the music and its interpretation, which changed so much with time ... and their version since EF left us for a new universe, does not have that feeling ... something that "lives" and you "feel it". The same goes for others, however this is reserved to a few of the folks whose strength and touch is beyond the ordinary. 

To me, that is the only important thing ... stop thinking that some of these bands were Gods ... they were folks like you and I. Heck, I didn't make it to Haight-Ashbury, or to the Fillmore ... but a lot of the music that has (FINALLY) shown up in concerts, has given me a tear or two of appreciation ... and even seeing a special on the tube about Janis ... made me cry ... 

Validating your seeing them ... is not THE TRUTH ... or the end of the world. Your FEELING it, is!

One more comment ... a very tough one ... 

Be free and appreciate all the arts and all the works over millennia ... instead of being stuck in time. There are many other periods just as important ... with one issue that I see ... you mention the bands and you fail to mention all the arts around it, that helped those bands develop ... and that is a sign of being influenced by the machine a lot more than the artistic appreciation for the time and its arts and folks.

Faul_McCartney wrote: Whenever I listen to late 70s prog, a sense of sadness comes over me, because I know the classic era of prog is almost over. I don't exactly feel like I was "born in the wrong generation". But I feel wistful, knowing I'll never get to see any of my favorite bands perform, at least not in their prime. Something like a medieval peasant looking at the ruins of ancient Rome. I think late 70s prog, especially Genesis from this period, has a sort of sadness to it anyway but it could be my bias.

Funny to read the responses and what people picked up on in the OP. See above for what I thought his main issues was.

Or have a couple of yahoos get in a fist fight in the aisle right next to your seat

Or have jerks standing where they shouldn't be standing, blocking your view

Or have to wait an hour or two to actually get your car out of the parking lot after the show.

At one concert in the 80s, there was a woman asleep two seats in front of me. Why was she asleep? because she was plastered and passed out. Yeah, that's what you want. Go to a concert stupid drunk, pass out, and miss most of the concert. Idiots

I can't say, I'm a younger Prog aficionado, but I haven't seen the classic Prog artists perform, either. Nevertherless, I don't 

miss it, as when listening to the classic albums, I can better experience the MUSIC as of a special, magic world in that way.

I hope we agree that music is more important than the artists themselves. 

Honestly, I never get see any decent prog artists anymore.  Even modern ones!  Living on the west coast of the US, there's an absence of any kind of concert scene that I can find.  I know Hackett and Kansas just came through here, but that was an anomaly.

We used to have Baja Prog, Cal Prog(with the occasional related show), Progfest, Progwest... That was just in SoCal!  Now, I find out about single concerts here and there that I would have liked to see a few weeks late! When they even happen.

For this reason alone, I would love to live on the East coast(or better, Great Britain).  I would be a retired concert junkee!

I'm not sure you've got my point there, JD. Or to be sure it's clear, I was opposing digging the artists themselves more than the music they create.

I suppose there are talented performers who don't produce their own, or maybe even very good, music. Is that what you meant? Lots of musical gymnastics without any real substance.

We're living in a culture with much worshipping of famous persons not least because they're famous, and that can be difficult to avoid.

I also used to think I was born in the wrong decade. It seemed like I got into prog at the wrong time (I'm 53 and so I discovered it and got into it in the mid 80s). But now I wish I was young or younger because getting old is no fun. Lol. I think I once saw a t- shirt that said something like "I may be old but I got to see all the cool bands." I doubt younger folks think that way though and probably think Green Day is way better than Led Zeppelin. It's all about perspective.

Since I'm on the young side, it's cool to discover all these new bands for myself and find forums like PA where I can learn about such music. Taking it all in is a lot, rewarding, but a lot. 

I'd love to see some of these new bands in concert, but I don't have time/money to drive to see them, they never come anywhere near where I live which is a shame.

I know some of the more modern stuff, since many of my friends listen to it, lots of Indie. You can hear various influences, a great number of Hip Hop artists are massive prog fans. Take Ye's 'Power' he samples '21st Century Schizoid Man' I'm sure that is the first time they've heard that, and it's crazy to think they have no idea that it's from a much different song. 

Since discovering Prog last year, my life has changed, and making and listening to music has helped me a lot, for the better. So again, not born in the wrong generation, perhaps I just wish there were more HQ concert films from that time 

^BTW, most kids these days are focused on pop/rap artists, some poppy and dark R&B type stuff. And LOTS of country-pop. I can't think of a single person I know that loves Green Day, maybe a friend of a friend, and that was only once

I was born in 1955, and saw Yes on their Close to the Edge tour (July 1972), Jethro Tull with Thick as a Brick (October 1972), King Crimson on LTIA tour (April 1973) and so forth.  They were amazing experiences! 

Fortunately, in the 21st century, we have ways to go back in time! 

a) YouTube - I saw this Genesis broadcast on the day it happened, and I was hooked!! 

b) Tribute Bands - if you haven't seen a good prog tribute band, seek one out!   I love Canada's "The Musical Box" and have seen their Foxtrot, SEBTP and Lamb shows!  Amazing stuff!! 

https://www.themusicalbox.net/" rel="nofollow - https://www.themusicalbox.net

c)  musicians themselves!  By all means, seek out whomever is touring, such as Steve Hackett! 

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/steve-hackett/2023/spodek-katowice-poland-2ba77cb2.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/steve-hackett/2023/spodek-katowice-poland-2ba77cb2.html

And, don't discount some of the new, upcoming artists who compose & perform in the manner we enjoy!  I am always finding new acts to learn about! 

Enjoy the trip, Charles! 

Hackett toured kinda near me, i REALLY wanted to see it, sadly i was busy that day, and it was something i couldn't really cancel. 

YouTube is an amazing resource. I agree

(P.S. Love 'The Grasshopper' Reference)

I listen to music on youtube but it's not part of my "serious" listening. I'm a cd guy. I may return to vinyl one day. Nothing against spotify. I have that too but it's on my mother's account and don't listen to it much. 

Anyway, some of these responses are amusing to me. In some ways you could say anyone under 60 is young in prog circles or if they are too young to have been into it during the first wave (70s) which would be the case for me.  

Well... free on YouTube and Spotify at least. 

For me, 'Young' in prog circles means under 30. which means I'm a little baby

Nah, young is under 60. 

Or if you want to say they first got into prog in the 2000s or later then ok but in my mind it's anyone who was too young to be into it in the 70s. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I'm entitled to my reality however delusional it might appear.  

Or perhaps subjective is a better term

I don't want prog to devolve into something like, well, barbershop-quartet music or other archaic art form!  (mind you, I've sung a bit of barbershop, it can be jolly good fun, but its time has come and gone). 

There is some amazing young talent emerging....Gabriel Severn is becoming a jazz-rock bass guitar master, Justin Lee Schulz is an amazing multi-instrumentalist, Rachel Flowers always amazes, and so forth.  

 Sometimes you have to dig around to find musicians who create music in your area of interest, which is why I enjoy PA so much!!  I've never seen such global talent in music appreciation as with this group!  

I was very glad to see a lot of legendary bands play my home town Swindon back in the late 90's and early to mid 00's. I've seen Colosseum, Leslie West, Mountain, Focus, Wishbone Ash, Steve Howe, The Carl Palmer Band and Jan Akkerman there , 150 paying customers fully treated. Those give me great memories. I don't feel I've missed out that much. There are still great new bands and Big Big Train are an absolute treat to see live. The new line up is going to be very exciting so don't miss out if you want to see these guys and have a chance to see them.

I'm satisfied with the concerts on YouTube. What I do have that gets me very close to the musical feelings of back then is my records that were made in the 70's. I can sit back and and get immersed in what's coming out of the grooves, and I can envision what was going on in the studio.

In the early 1990s, I was living in, and working in, Exeter, Devon UK!  A Yank out of water!  Loved it!  I looked very hard for any prog, but Oasis (ugh!) seemed to be the dominant band!  

I'm familiar with Swindon, were you able to hop into London to see music?  Stateside, it is not unusual to travel for hours to concerts.  However, I'm finding that very acceptable concerts/tours are finding their way into smaller venues ad you mentioned, and so I've been satisfied within my budget.  Cheers!

Would it be great to see Allan Holdsworth or Gentle Giant live in person? Absolutely. But I get Snarky Puppy and Haken, so I'll live.

 

Yep I went to London quite a bit. Saw so many bands I can't name them all but included Porcupine Tree, Ars Nova, Magenta, IQ (inc all of Subterranea), Pallas, Keith Emerson Band, The Nice, Yes (Symphonic tour), Roger Waters (The Wall), The Flower Kings, IAmTheMorning, and that's just the capital. Swindon was well placed for Bristol ( Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Steve Hackett, Anderson and Wakeman to name a few) and Birmingham (Australian Pink Floyd many times! plus Roger Waters twice and J M Jarre twice) and Muse and Marillion at Cardiff International Arena , all very memorable. Latterly I now live down in Cornwall but still caught a few bands this year (Muse at Plymouth, Kasabian and War On Drugs at The Eden Project) and have got Aussie Pink Floyd lined up for December. 

It's a myth people blindly trust for some reason. Prog was born in the UK, but soon it spread onto other places, like the rest of Europe, the US, and later other countries where there were already strong rock music scenes, like, I dunno, Canada, Japan, Argentina and so on. And by 1979 prog was made all over the map, despite its decline in the UK.

Oasis (ugh!)

DON'T YOU DARE TALK SHІT ABOUT OASIS!

Welcome to the show (Prog Archives)! 

ITCOTCK was my introduction to prog, I was 12 year old and the older brother of a friend had the LP.  I was hooked by the sound of the Mellotron!   I'm now 68, still play guitar & bass, and enjoy finding new music! 

 

Maybe a person is considered young if their parents were into prog.

 

Despite being old enough, as I'm born in 1962, I too have missed a lot of bands. I didn't have the opportunity to see Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Syd Barrett end many others performing live. In Italy in the 70s the political situation coused a sort of blackout. Nobody wanted to perform in Italy, so I have missed Emerson Lake and Palmer, just to mention one of the bigs.

Neither RPI bands did, with the exception of Area, but I've missed them too, as they were active mainly in Milan, some 600km from where I live. My first international gig has been Patti Smith in Florence in 1978, not a great performance actually. It was better in the 80s, when Pink FLoyd (without Waters, of course), Bowie, Yes, Wakeman, Marillion, Jethro Tull and many others came back on stage here.

My grandpa may have regretted to have missed Mozart.

 

It's also good to point here that Prog in many countries was something much else than just a copy of UK Prog.

Oasis are the last watering hole I'd choose to stop by at. I'd much rather listen to the sweet sound of Gallagher & Lyle than the noisy and arrogant Gallagher brothers. 

Seriously? Oasis sucks ass.

Yes. Seriously. Oasis was a great band with memorable and well written songs. Noel's songwriting really shined, and the powerful emotional arrangements with that characteristic overdriven guitar and squeaky clean acoustic guitar accompaniment were pretty superb. Liam's vocals are acquired taste but I like them. Besides, I've heard multiple times, from prog fans, that Oasis sucked, yet nobody was able to ellaborate on their opinion as to why.

Hardly a myth. The Big Six is recognised to be ELP, Yes, Genesis, ,Floyd, Tull and Crimson. There is a reaon for that. The other bands came later so 'progressive rock' in its purest form was set down by British bands.

I am a little annoyed that you took my comment out my my main comment and totally ignored the fact that I credited Italy as being very significant. The likes of Banco and PFM are very important but it still doesn't change the main fact that I stated. I'm not being a petty little Englander. Even prog fans from the USA admit they were late to the party. Yes it spread there but again USA prog fans make a distinction between Prog and Fusion. Actual prog bands from the US in the 70's are harder to find and are hardly discussed (Cathedral are an example, heard of them?). Kansas are the most famous but they were leaving any Symph style behined as early as 1975 (Masque) and creating what would eveb now be called 'Crossover'. It was already 'prog lite' even at that point IMO.

HAR!  OK, songs like "Champagne Super-Nova" represent the HEIGHT, nay, the very PINNACLE of musicianship of the era!!  In fact, they rivaled weaker compositions such as, oh, "Close to the Edge" or "Fracture."  

I'll say it again.  Oasis, ugh.  Good riddance.  

Hi,

It's scary that a thread that is really more about "philosophical" thoughts and ideas, ends up with folks simply mentioning their favorites and not saying anything about what makes them feel they fit into the discussion.

This thread should probably be more interesting than folks simply mentioning their favorites ... so sad to see this, and the lack of appreciation for a thread of this kind! 

It shouldn't be that one composition is stronger/weaker than another ... one should express WHY!

Sure the major record label (have they consolidated into one single entity yet?) almost completely ignores the genre, it absolutely is far easier to find progressive bands than it was in the miserable 1980's, and the somewhat less dreary 1990's.

I still find new artists that can give me the same feeling now, as I felt half a century ago when I would buy an album and listen to a completely transcendent performance, especially when played by artists I've never heard of before.  

I will admit that I receive plenty of promotional downloads due to my position as a reviewer and team member here, but when I find and album (or sometimes just a song) that blows my mind, I go out of my way to purchase a hard copy when possible, or at least a high-quality download, and pay them more than the asking price when the option is there.

Oasis was a vacuous, media creation that amplified vapid songwriting and inferior musicianship into a brief fling with popularity.

No different than what happened with the Monkees and other groups.  For those who liked Oasis, best wishes. 

However...where are they now?  I never hear their music anywhere.   Mediocre music that was plumped up by a media machine.  Same with Justin Frickin' Bieber.  

                  I did not discover Triumvirat and other progressive rock really until the mid 1980s, but as I did not like 80s music at the time, I was enamoured with 70s prog, so I am kind of in between those who knew early prog like the back of their hand, and those that were born much later on.

                 I have to say that I am saddened by the passing of many of these prog pioneers that are/were my musical heroes; it hurt like hell when I heard that Triumvirat's Helmut Koellen died so long ago back in '77, and it is even sadder living in an era now where not a couple of weeks pass without us losing another musical person.

                 I stopped going to live concerts in around 1990 due to permanent tinnitus but still listen avidly on record, and always will.

inferior musicianship

I disagree. The musicianship in Oasis was amazing.

1) Liam's voice is worse than fingernails down a blackboard

2) The band are average musicians

3) The songs are dreary and boring.

How's that for starters?

Are you sure you're on the right site?

my thoughts in italics

Thank you!! 

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Without the 70's prog pioneers, there wouldn't be "modern prog" OK, so what does that have to do with Frets statement that "the greatest prog was made in the 70's"?

Sorry Grumpy, I hadn't seen your reply.

Outside the obvious pioneer thing, I can understand that one may think TFK is better (consistent) than Genesis, not only on the length of their body of work (TFK and SB have a very focused on prog discography) and may have better individual virtuosi at their respective instrument (though beating P Collins on the stool ...), but their body of work is very derivative of the works of the pioneers, which in itself is a flaw. This is an even bigger trait in what one calls "retro-prog" - which is my favoured genre in modern prog, so I'm not condemning it.

Yes (the affirmation, not the band), the fact that the 90's bands with 25 year's hindsight & insight, they already knew they would remain within the "prog realm" for their entire career & discography (no matter fhow long it would've been). The 70's bands had no idea where they were heading 5 years down the line, so every new album was different to the previous one.

.

I don't feel sadness when I hear prog from that era at all and I am happy to conclude that the 2010's have been a great decade for the genre and the 2020's are doing fine so far.

I'm 64 too and I jumped on the prog bandwagon in 1973 with Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells - my first prog album (although I had no idea it was prog at the time). It took me another forty years and the birth of the Internet before I bought my first CD's by Caravan, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd and YES. Between first going online in 2010 and now, my CD collection went up from just 400 to 3,200 in the space of thirteen years. It's not easy finding prog albums in charity shops and car boot sales though. After rummaging through the usual dross of boy bands and Brit-Pop albums by Oasis and Blur, all I usually find prog-wise are eighties Genesis albums by the bucketload, which hardly anyone wants anyway. I had to think twice whether I really wanted to spend a whole pound on Invisible Touch recently. 

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Some people seem to resist the idea that prog was born in the UK. I remember not too long ago getting into a debate (or was it an argument) with a guy in a facebook prog group about what was the first prog album (or first prog band).

Hi,

I am not sure that this was true ... it's almost like saying that "progressive" didn't exist in America. 

There were many things that were "progressive", but we seem to be stuck on a set of bands that happen to be English, BUT MADE THEIR MONEY IN AMERICA! Which ought to specify the story a bit, but it's like saying the Fillmore was crap, and that LA and NY did not have a progressive groove. Or Italy! Or France! Or Japan! Or anywhere else!

richardh wrote: Hrychu wrote: Seventies prog was very UK centric It's a myth people blindly trust for some reason. Prog was born in the UK, but soon it spread onto other places, like the rest of Europe, the US, and later other countries where there were already strong rock music scenes, like, I dunno, Canada, Japan, Argentina and so on. And by 1979 prog was made all over the map, despite its decline in the UK. ... Hardly a myth. The Big Six is recognised to be ELP, Yes, Genesis, ,Floyd, Tull and Crimson. There is a reaon for that. The other bands came later so 'progressive rock' in its purest form was set down by British bands....

I like to say that "prog" or "progressive" was born in America with the FM radio band, and it lived until the great American Corporate Rape that ended in 1980 or so, by which time all the INDEPENDENT radio stations that played those top 6 to the hilt, all became "classic" stations, or in the case of one station in LA, it became a New Age/Wave radio station and it was a number 1 station to give you the idea of the Rape and the Evil around it.

But, by 1980 these bands had brought in massive amounts of money and were given the "credit" for having started it all. They didn't start anything ... they were a part of it all! 

With the outlet of the FM Radio band playing everything and anything out there as an independent (in America ... FM Radio didn't jump as fast in England because the BBC stopped it as much, and as fast as possible. Read Dave Cousins' book on this ... !!!

But, because the huge sales and fame of the big six went down, it didn't mean the music died, or the movement died. By that time it had settled strongly everywhere else in the world, and it continued. For every sale that the big six lost, we gained Le Orme, Banco, Ange, Sadistic Mika Band, ECM stuff that is out of this world, and so many other bands that it was/is impossible to list them all and do them justice. 

... 'progressive rock' in its purest form ... is (in my book) a part of the problem, because the same thing was happening in America, and Italy, and France, and Japan, but was being ignored by the new radio format (which went on to only play the stuff that the main company released or had money in!!!!), and it continues to be ignored by these comments ... we are being ethnocentric again ... take the attitude of "master of the universe" kind of thing. 

              it was a totally different dynamic; the progressive rock "Big boys" were selling out massive arenas, and who would have imagined that an interest in Continental European rock would occurr there-at first with Kraftwerk and Triumvirat from Germany making waves in America, and PFM from Italy and Focus from Holland. 

           If I may say, that dynamic with Europe was most strikingly the case with Triumvirat, a group who were given nothing better than the middle finger from their German homeland, entered the Top 50 and consecutive Top 30 album charts in the USA, much to everyone's surprise. 

                         It was great until the "Corporate Rape" changed things so drastically in a fairly short time. 

I was born in the 80s and didn't go to my first concert until 2000. And now many of them are gone. I like the 60/70s, so the only benefit is being able to listen to anything/everything (popular or obscure prog) without paying anything, but the experiences of not seeing enough great live bands (certainly none in their prime, or classic formation) does suck.

I guess I'd recommend finding rare concerts from the 70s, interviews, etc.... Also, there's a lot of great albums from the 70s that might barely have any views, but still great. I know I've found many just from this site alone, and the recommendations, etc..

I am totally fed up to the back teeth with the petty points scoring attitude of this forum , I mentioned the Italian bands and how much I like them, you then spout a lot of petty nonsense and highlight stuff that I basically alluded to. Its so bloody annoying and now I have to repeat myself again!

The respect USA bands and musicians had for the top UK bands and their influence is self eveident. Nothing to do with sales of albums but just how f**king good they were. The likes of Yes and ELP ruled when they hopped over the pond because USA had nothing like it. I mentioned Italian bands, go back and read my comments and stop being a child.

I think, we need to compromise here. UK was definitely the main scene for Progressive Rock in the '70s, but there was also much of it in other European and non-European countries around the world, and not least in the second half of the '70s. 

The same jerks who get annoyed if you tell them to please keep it down, or go someplace else to speak

Progressive/Compositional rock is non-commercial in general and could have become popular without the above

Prog is most critically reviled music today, mostly because of the group politics Media judging the group of individuals playing it, not the music itself, where it is very politically incorrect (read bigoted) for Music being played by a significant number of Whites, Males, Europeans, Middle Class persons

Prog Archives is great for discovering new bands, and Prog Radio and Youtube (except when they interrupt with commercials in the middle of the song - where I don't buy such products advertised when done)

There are plenty of good dvds out there 

I agree with this. especially as it applies to England, the place from which most classic prog came.

At the end of the seventies, these classic prog acts had become so big that they really didn't so much need the English music press' support and gradually started distancing themselves from the main music publications like NME and Melody maker.

The presses reaction at first was to start throwing support behind acts that where more willing to go along with these music publications, and ultimately to big up "punk" whilst at the same time ridiculing any perceived "dinosaurs" (industry code for musicians who make a lot of money without the help of publicity and support from the music press).

It was to the music industries advantage to reduce everything to Year One and start again, with a fresh crop of pimple faced youth ready to do anything to promote whatever the hell it was they were angry about ('cause punk was all about being angry).

But then, punk wasn't about music. It was a fashion statement.

At one time music dictated fashion but then fashion started to dictate music.

The tail was now wagging the dog and that poor hound would never be the same again (poor, confused critter).

Arabs In Aspic - Powerful Norwegian band very early King Crimson and early Floyd influenced, incredible artwork on their albums as well.

Tauk - USA instrumental combo, their latest 36 minute album (The Equaliser) is a joy.

35 Tapes - Another Norwegian band, rich in melody, loving their latest as well.

I feel this way. It was a moment in time. I do think there is good prog music being made now, but it is almost unlistenable with the production values prog-progmetal basically adopted in the 90s. This reverbed out 'live' sound is just awful. Wobbler, with it's in-studio sound a la Fragile, is a recent outlier at least in part because of the production. Why can't this warm, more immediate sound be seen as a production choice rather than labeled 'vintage' or whatever?

It IS a production choice and just happens to be "vintage" since it was established in the 70s.

Errrr....Stanley Clarke?  Frank Zappa?  Chester Thompson?  Billy Cobham??  Plenty of examples of black musicians in prog!