sydbarrett2010 wrote: Hi, I'm hoping to get an answer on where to start with Gong, are they really that big a deal? I just listened to Radio Gnome Invisible from Flying Teapot and I'm, well not impressed (not that I didn't like it), but I guess I know what's going on with them. Recommendations would be appreciated.

My favorites are probably You and Shamal. The first one is the third and last chapter of the Flying Teapot trilogy. More space/jazz fusion than the previous two (and less "silly", I personally love their silly stuff, but it's not for everyone), the latter a sort of transitional album in between Allen's and Moerlen's Gong. Spiritual jazzrock fusion. Pure magick to my ears.

There was a time I would play that one on repeat and love it to death! 

I really like the Dada structure of this one and the one before that (Brother).

Allen was an early member of Soft Machine so I assume the Dada nature of the debut and Vol 2 was influenced by him. 

It's not for everyone, but I am partial to early Gong!

I bought the album for the princely sum of 59p back in the day. 

Hi,

Suggestions here will be all over the place. I do not recommend following any of them, including mine, but starting with "Downwind", which really is no longer GONG, and what it started with AT ALL ... I'm not sure it is a good idea. 

The whole band, coming from Canterbury (Daevid specially!), is not your average rock band, and neither is it a jazz band, and it is mostly a theatrical music experience, something that rock audiences do not always like ... so the pick of Downwind, is already not the theatrical material that the band started with ... that's not to say that the music is not great ... of course it is ... but it is a version of GONG that is nowhere near what the band started out with, and pretty much "finished" before Pierre Moerlin decided to do his own version, which is far out, no question about it, but in many ways it does not relate to GONG a whole lot, although I'm not sure that Pierre Moerlin would have sold as well, WITHOUT the word GONG in the band's name.

I would say, usually, to start at the beginning, and MAKE YOUR OWN IDEA AND JUDGEMENT. You might find a lot of excellent musicianship along the way, with uncanny timing ... but expecting/hoping that someone tell you which album is better? Good luck!

Hi,

Daevid lived in London with Kevin Ayers, and many other folks and artists and writers. Both Burroughs and Ginsberg are often mentioned and you know that they influenced what these folks ended up doing, not to mention that Robert Wyatt became the best "beat poet" of all in all of his albums ... all different and all interesting, and all ... many times way out of this world! 

By the time Burroughs comes around, it really is not anymore "dada" per se, but it has a bit of that flavor for folks not quite on par with the literature around it, is my take on it ... you gotta remember the most important part of it all ... this came from an ARTISTIC SCENE, that was not just music! We still, even here on PA, don't like to hear that because we think a screaming guitar created progressive garbage! You can get a better idea of the time period and its folks in the special "Tonite We All Love in London" and realize that the bands are not listed that play in the art venue which makes things more confusing and takes the "moment" away from the ensuing music and arts, as the film then changed to focus on John and Yoko! Dada, just became ... nothing! But both Burroughs and Ginsberg are well remembered ... and we still don't seem to understand this part of the scene that gave us so many bands, and a scene outside London.

moshkito wrote: but starting with "Downwind", which really is no longer GONG, and what it stated with AT ALL ... I'm not sure it is a good idea.

I agree.

moshkito wrote: I would say, usually, to start at the beginning, and MAKE YOUR OWN IDEA AND JUDGEMENT. You might find a lot of excellent musicianship along the way, with uncanny timing ... but expecting/hoping that someone tell you which album is better? Good luck!

Which means you reccomend he'll go back to Magick Brother after having listened to Radio Gnome Invisible - which didn't impress him. A terrible idea. I think there's albums that are a perfect introduction to a band or an artist, and albums that aren't. To me, sometimes they don't come chronologically.

That's always been my approach too - to start at the beginning of a discography and work my way through to the end, judging each album on its own merits along the way, just as I did with Gong and every other artist I've ever listened to online. 

Shamal from 1975 is a good place to start if being happy with more mainstream oriented and yet exotic Jazz-Rock.

I think the key to fully appreciating the band you have to understand the mythology they've concocted which was integral to their early material -- especially You, Angel's Egg, and Flying Teapot. We're talking about Octave Doctors, Radio Gnome's, Pothead Pixies, Orgone Accumulators, The Invisible Opera Company of Tibet, the Gong Power Symbol, and all kinds of other fantastic (literally) entities. Their lyrics directly relate. You cannot separate their music (at least during that early period) from their underlying mythology.

I have a 32-page booklet written by Daevid Allen in 1979 which he handed out at concerts. I'll try to scan it and put it online if there's any interest.

Hi,

I might be mistaken and we should ask Johnny (Green if he is still around at GAS) ... about it ... but to my knowledge, all of those things, including some things I have off emails and other articles from many years ago, I would imagine/think that it is all rather well known, though not in America, where the band was not as much appreciated and seen in concert with a much larger crowd than the bar locations that GONG was a part of, which even Pierre Moerlin made a comment about it at their 2nd tour here in Portland. He didn't mind the music, but he was not excited about the bar crowd. Bloomdido and him spent a lot of time yapping at the veranda in the hotel (next to the venue - Crystal Ballroom) ... you could easily take a picture of them and they would likely wave at you! To Mike H. (talked to him more than once) it didn't matter and he said it was about the music, not anything else, and he didn't care of there were 10 folks or a thousand out there ... he'll still be the dependable Mike H. each and every time! His funniest comment was in the sound check in Eugene ... "is it too bass'y?" ... I didn't think so at all ... but it wasn't my call!

GAS, at one time had at least 2 CD's full of comments by Daevid and various interviews. I would think that if there was a booklet, that Johnny would have some of them ... and Daevid also gave away some paperwork during his first go round on his own when he was in Santa Barbara at a friend's house, and played a couple of shows at a place called "The Wolf" ... it was him, several tapes and a speaker or two as tall as he was! it was a wonderful, lovely, intimate show ... and he called it The Divided Alien ... I'll try to find those bits and pieces and notes. I also have a "Professor's Certificate" made by Daevid for me. 

The one part that is apparently lost is the Gilly stuff ... she had massive amounts of poetry and written works, and we shared a lot of poems in various emails ... and no one knows anything about it, or seems to know about it, and the folks in Australia for some reason never (either) bothered, or simply could not find anything ... being the "beat poet" that she was ... it would not surprise me if she did not keep anything, so that tomorrow's line and poem will be fresh and new.

Classics apart ( I love the trilogy and Shamal), I would suggest an underrated one that is Shapeshifter.

As Moshkito says, it's no longer GonG, and since a lot of years, but I think it's a good album not too difficult for starters and with some hints of the old GonG here and there.

Acid Motherhood

Zero to Infinity

Time is The Key (Pierre Moerlens Gong)

About Time (New York Gong)

Floating Anarchy (Planet Gong)

Playbax`80 (Daevid Allen)

Good Morning (Daevid Allen)

Guru & Zero ( https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=54835" rel="nofollow - Makoto Mango ) (Daevid Allen and Acid Mother Temple)

Acid Mothers Gong : either one of the two live albums !!

Rejoice Im Dead

Expresso II (might have been mentioned, but "Heavy Tune" is the perfect intro to newbees !!!)

Happy Hunting !

Hi,

NY Gong was interesting, however I think the recording and time was not exactly a good one for Daevid, and I think it shows.

Floating Anarchy is my FAVORITE "acid rock" album of all time ... welcome magick brothers and mystic sisters ... and off they go ... the last piece alone is a massive blowout. It's the meditative hard rock, if we have to describe it. And it's excellent!

Acid Mothers Gong is a very nice live album. Not sure it is great as the guests were a bit over the top, however the Gong folks maintained really well and made the show a bit better than just a thrashing show with Gong. But several moments stand out really well.

Their LIVE stuff in the later years before Daevid passed away were also very good and included Steve Hillage, that added a really nice touch to things, and in many ways was much closer to the Trilogy Gong, than otherwise, but it was clear that even after so many years doing their own thing, they had not lost a note or a touch. Miquette's added touches also helped, as some of the Live versions of Gong were missing keyboards really bad! Made it a bit "rock'ier" but also took away a bit of the far out tripping effects and made less room for Gilly.

BTW ... three drummers, and 3 different Gong's ... in their 1st American tour it was Pip ... and the well known picture that I took here in Portland that they used for several years. The 2nd tour was Pierre Moerlin. The next tour was the drummer that came from Soul2Soul (I think it was) ... the first one was with a jazzy touch, Pierre's version was very much more rock touched and strong, and Chris' version was more on the trippy side of the music ... still very good ... but very different. I have a tape (no idea what condition it is in ... have to check!!!) made by Mike (was the sound man in those trips and became the bass player in Allen's later material) is the Pierre version which I will take an ear to right away.

I gave those three albums a mention near the top of Page 1, along with 55 other Gong albums. 

Gong had many more drummers than 3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gong_band_members" rel="nofollow - List of Gong band members - Wikipedia

Hi,

That's over their lifetime ... but in their first go round in America starting in 1995 (I think it was), it was Pip. the next tour was Pierre. Their 3rd go around (1999 SF Progressive Music Festival) had Chris.

Of these three my preference is for the Pierre version ... very powerful and totally far out.

Maybe sample Angel's Egg, Expresso II / Gazeuse!, and some later on. Those two albums mentioned sound nothing alike.

Hi,

There's the rub as the Bard would say!

A "hint" for me, is not original and has little meaning. The old "GONG" was very original and did not exactly copy anyone and you might be hard pressed (as would I) in saying ... that's a bit of this here ... that's a bit of that there ... and so on.

I have no issue with the "new" GONG ... they can do whatever they please ... but calling themselves GONG is more of a publicity thing than it is meaningful otherwise. Without that name, they would not sell that much or as many people give it a listen. That's not to say they do not have anything nice or interesting, but sadly the "creativity" is left behind to stuff that is seen and heard all over 100's of other "progressive" rock bands out there. I would, almost, call it "pedestrian" and not original. GAS (Gong's label) had that issue before ... many solo albums, and far out and special things ... and no one knew much about them ... and you did not review the Glissando stuff or the Tibetan thing at all ... and still no one knows any of that stuff because Daevid and/or Gong is not on the name first!

But this is PA ... and the majority of folks that post only like "the classics" because they don't listen enough to new material. Very simple. And then hearing RV do her thing, seems far out and neat. 

Pal ... it's easy to do what folks already know ... but these folks don't have the guts to tackle something that is not as well known or heard ... and in this area, only Guy Guden stands out consistently ... he still plays more new material than anyone, and his choices for the show, even includes stuff going back to the 50's ... his musical knowledge and appreciation for NOW is what it is about ... but we do not have enough appreciation for NOW ... and think we have to bark and pee at the graven tree of TW so we remind ourselves of what "progressive" is ... it ain't progressive. It's theatrical, first!

moshkito wrote: I would think that if there was a booklet...

There IS a booklet. Why do you doubt it? Here is page 1...

Here is a link to the full booklet, in PDF format (13 MB)...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TAsAQcqwyep6yjn-EPhITtVwN0i-98VV/view?usp=drive_link" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TAsAQcqwyep6yjn-EPhITtVwN0i-98VV/view?usp=drive_link

Hi,

I didn't say there wasn't ... I said that Johnny G would probably know about it and might even have already set it out on a CD with various bits and pieces from Daevid. That's why I stated that GAS would have known about it. 

I never doubted it because Daevid had fun coloring and drawing stuff in many places and did so for at least an hour here in Portland! And there was some stuff for his show in Santa Barbara at "The Wolf" ... so you saying I was doubting it, is incorrect!

Hi,

They are fine with me ... with or without Daevid's blessings. But I imagine that it is impossible to be an "original" since there is only one Daevid ... I have heard at least 2 CD's, but have not bought any of them ... go figure ... I kinda thought there was much more demanding and interesting stuff around for my tastes, which is not to say that this version of GONG is not good. They are fine!

DAEVID ALLEN    Gong but not forgotten: the magic and the madness of Daevid Allen (1938-2015).  He comes from a land Down Under, where women glow and men chunder, but Daevid Allen is as firmly rooted in the Canterbury Scene as the Archbishop of Canterbury himself, having co-founded firstly Soft Machine and then Gong, with almost as many offshoots and branches of Gong as Barclays Bank. 

1979: Daevid Allen - N-existe pas!

This is a really interesting and good album. The song "333" is nicely spacey, "No Other than the Mother is My Song" is a great melodic composition in the Allen/Gong style, "The Turkeybirds Breakfast" captures Daevid's zany side, and "Non God Will Not Go On or the Wrong Way to be Right" (the best track, IMO) has a proggy groove similar to "Master Builder" from the album You.

Here's a Bandcamp link:  https://daevidallen.bandcamp.com/album/nexiste-pas" rel="nofollow - https://daevidallen.bandcamp.com/album/nexiste-pas

OUCH, I LOVE all of these 3 albums, maybe not 5 star albums...but

 N-existe pas! 3 1/2 stars

Divided Alien Playbax 4 stars of not 4 1/2 !!!!!!

Seven Drones : Since i always falls asleep to this, it`s a 5 / 5 to me.......

And the "New" Gong is totally legit to me, I even prefer "Rejoice" / "The Universe..." to the very last with Daevid called "I See You" - but even that one is great !!!

Gongzilla

Planet Gong

Mother Gong

Daevid Allen`s Gong

Pierre Moerlen`s Gong

Mother Gong

Acid Mother Gong

New York Gong...........

Who cares !?!? All of this and more is so great !!!!!!

WHY is this album IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND !?!??!!?!?!?!