The Best Progressive Rock Band of The '60s?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130306
Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 23:38
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Topic: The Best Progressive Rock Band of The '60s?
Posted By: David_D
Subject: The Best Progressive Rock Band of The '60s?
Date Posted: January 03 2023 at 21:55
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Inspired by Drew's poll, I certainly find this question interesting and very well suited for a thorough discussion. So, what is your answer to it, and why? And I hope you'll enjoy it, and happy New Year!  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 03 2023 at 22:18
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I'd have to say Tull, as they were the only fully shaped & functioning, album-producing 'prog rock' band that existed pre 1969... though, like all English rock bands, they initially started as blues/folk-rock. Floyd maybe, but they were closer to Cabaret than prog, like the Doors were. Probably Zappa for the states. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 04:46
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^ Both Procol Harum and The Nice were such. King Crimson is the obvious answer but rock music was moving towards a more art rock direction after Revolver. The Who, Led Zep and The Doors were all equally important in this regards. It was a general mind set change.
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Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 07:03
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I guess it depends on your own definition of progressive rock. IMO, first full blown progressive rock album was ITCOTCK. It means that everything released before October 10th 1969 cannot be considered as progressive rock. The bands like the Nice, Procol Harum, Moody Blues were progressive (innovative, moving forward), but I personally wouldn't called them progressive rock bands. They definitely influenced many other bands that follow their steps. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 12:51
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Moody Blues -------------   
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 16:32
On the one hand, this point of view seems quite plausible to me, but on the other, I see this problem that it's like no Progressive Rock band existed before October 1969, and then suddenly from that month, it did - unless, King Crimson did.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
enigmatic wrote:Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 17:06
Not true. Many albums that came before ITCOTCK are considered full blown prog. KC was the one who popularized prog and turned it into a serious genre. Examples: Hansson & Karlsson "Monument" 1967 The Electric Prunes' "Mass In F Minor" 1967 and "Release Of An Oath" 1968 Caravan debut 1968 East of Eden - Mercator Projected Febr 1969 Colosseum - Those Who Are About to Die Salute You Mar 1969 Ekseption - s/t July 1969 Zappa & Mothers - Uncle Meat Apr 1969 Van Der Graaf Generator - The Aerosol Grey Machine Sept 1969 High Tide - Sea Shanties also Oct 1969 Probably others but these are the ones i can think of on the spot :) -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 19:09
Exactly, no progressive rock bands existed before October 1969. Who would you have in mind? The Beatles, the Nice, Procol Harum, Moody Blues? They were not progressive rock bands. They were definitely proto-prog bands, but not prog-rock bands. One or two prog-rock infused songs don't make entire albums FULL BLOWN PROGRESSIVE ROCK ALBUM. |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 19:16
With all do respect, siLLy puPPy, none of them are full blown progressive rock albums in my book. Just my very subjective opinion. And don't get me wrong, I simply love few of them you mentioned. Do you know what they are missing? Those moments that lift you to fifth dimension. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 19:22
Which track on Mercator Projected for example don't you find progressive? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Argentinfonico
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 19:49
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The Mothers of Invention without a doubt ------------- -Will I see you tonight? -I never make plans that far ahead. Casablanca (1942) |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 00:33
Can you say some more about it, Atavachron?
or Richardh? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 00:39
Does that mean you don't see Progressive Rock as a real, separate movement in the 60s, Richardh?
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 00:46
Still, what about King Crimson? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 02:59
According to the liner notes of Caravan's debut LP, released October 1968, Progressive Rock bands (and movement) did exist in the late 60s. The notes say: "Caravan belong to a new breed of progressive rock groups - freeing themselves from the restricting conventions of pop music by using unusual time signatures and sophisticated harmonies. Their arrangements involve variations of tempo and dynamics of almost symphonic complexity".
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 03:09
It's a fair point, almost like progressive rock was in the process of progressing rock but hadn't quite managed it yet. In fact of those listed, I think the High Tide has the most 'fifth dimension moments'. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 03:10
| King Crimson (1969) and before that, The Moody Blues. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 03:18
Well both the Doors and early Floyd were acts as much as they were rock bands ... it was a good way to attract attention. Hendrix, Zeppelin, ELP too and the Nice before them, all superb but well aware of the realities of Show Biz. Spectacle Rock is not necessarily Prog Rock, just like Glam Rock is not necessarily Arena Rock. I happen to think The Thougts of Emerlist Davjack displays the first evidence of true prog rock, but it isn't necessarily the first prog album and certainly isn't the most effective or influential or successful one. It's a matter of context. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 05:11
But I surely like this ambition in your understanding of Progresssive Rock, Enigmatic. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 06:53
I have a bad news David, this text is from 1972, not 1968. No one would write that in 1968. Progressive rock as a label/term wasn't defined in 1968. This is from 1972 MGM reissue of Caravan's debut. Liner notes were written by David Hughes who used to write for some independent UK magazines. Plenty of his interviews were with progressive rock artists / bands. The original liner notes from 1968 Verve release are completely different, written in typical 1960s style. Look in discogs.com. Find the LP, download the image of back cover to your PC, zoom it. There are some references to Hendrix and Jefferson Airplane, but nothing about progressive rock. "I think Caravan like Hendrix..(..) they work in the Airplane direction of overall sound, John Coltrane's sheets of sound, each tune constructed, built up with layers of sound." |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 07:00
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Btw, some interviews by David Hughes from early 70s can be found here: https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Writer/david-hughes |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 07:30
If that is correct, it's certainly not bad news, Enigmatic, but very good to correct some important historical informations. I had it from Edward Macan's book Rocking the Classics, which I considered to be a reliable source.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 10:58
Groundbreaking, innovative album. I simply love it. My 3rd favorite album from 1969 releases, right after "In the Court.." and Soft Machine Vol. 2. Borderline progressive and proto-prog to my ears, not full blown progressive rock. Again, this is just my subjective opinion, we don't have to agree on everything siLLy puPPy. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 14:03
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It's astounding that Tull has been around since 1967 and is still [Anderson] making music & touring. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 15:19
Zappa was releasing records that had never been heard before, fusing all genres of music into something unheard of, new, and exciting. If the definition of progressive rock means to create music that is pushing boundaries, is not the popular stuff played on the radio, or the music does not have the repetitious verse - chorus - bridge - repeat - format. Zappa towers above any prog artist in the 60's. |
Posted By: Argentinfonico
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 16:33
^ You got that right, fella  ------------- -Will I see you tonight? -I never make plans that far ahead. Casablanca (1942) |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 04:06
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On basis of the discussion so far, I see this important question to answer: Can a band be considered Progressive Rock band before releasing a full blown Progressive Rock album? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 04:37
| ^That is subjective. What may be a "full blown" prog rock album for some isn't for others. I don't consider the KC debut or the Moody Blues full blown prog. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 05:54
Surely agree, the question is more about what when not released album yet. Like KC in the period between being formed in January 69 and releasing ITCOTCK in October 69.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 06:57
Question for you Grumpyprogfan - which album in your opinion is FIRST full blown progressive rock album ever recorded? |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 07:09
Guess it depends what you consider progressive. Granted KC introduced something mind blowing but just because it was the best doesn't mean it was the first. Not my opinion. That's just the definition of progressive rock by the majority. In the end it doesn't really matter. Just enjoy the music :) ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 08:38
| ^ Exactly. BTW, I just played Mercator Projected in the background while working. I work remotely from home. What a great frickin' album! Probably first true progressive rock album. By "true" I mean entire album can be considered as progressive rock versus one or two songs. It's still not full blown prog-rock, IMO. It misses the complexity, unconventional chord progressions, shifting time signatures included on ITCOTCK. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 08:55
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^ the second album Snafu is even better, at least to my ears. Well even KC's debut isn't as complex as other albums to come. Henry Cow for example so where exactly the term "progressive rock" picks up from "adventurous art rock" will always be up to individual interpretation. Personally i'm OK with Hansson & Karlsson's Monument being considered the first prog rock album. The term doesn't mean ridiculously complex, it must means that rock has taken on elements of classical, jazz and other complex musical styles. Same with Days of Future Passed. Crazy time signatures are only one aspect of prog. We could debate this forever! Haha! ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 09:30
And I find Renaisannce's debut album more full blown than ITCOTCK. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 09:44
I somehow feel the same with Days of Future Passed, but otherwise, to decide what to think, I usually compare to the typical standard of Prog Rock from the early 70s.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 09:52
I guess it's good to distinguish between those two.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2023 at 14:51
I'd add: The Mothers of Invention Freak Out (1966) through Uncle Meat (1969) Don Ellis Orchestra 'Live' at Monterey! (Jan 1967) Strawberry Alarm Clock Incense and Peppermints (Oct. 1967) The Moody Blues Days of Future Passed (Nov. 1967) The Soft Machine s/t (December 1968) John McLaughlin Extrapolation (Jan. 1969) Chicago Chicago Transit Authority (April 1969) Tony Williams Lifetime Emergency (Aug. 1969) The Soft Machine Volume Two (Sept 1969) maybe some Byrds, The Doors s/t debut (for "Light My Fire") and a Hendrix album or two--not to mention a Beatles album or two (or three). ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 02:19
Anyway, I see some good reason in considering the bands like The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, the Nice, The Soft Machine and Pink Floyd to be the first wave of Progressive Rock in UK. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 06:13
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My personal favourite band of the 60s is Pink Floyd, also being very progressive already beginning in 1966 - even not in the Symphonic but the Space Rock way. Pink Floyd was very appreciated too and the most important forerunner for Kosmische Rock. Besides that, and not least, their albums from the 60s are still very appreciated today.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 06:21
Hi, I think that David D is underestimating the musical ability of many of the folks in Caravan, and indeed almost all of Canterbury ... these were all well educated and about to become upper level students in music, and the rock bands, in some cases, were just some fun on the side, although I think they took them a bit more serious. These were not school/street kids that decided they liked rock this and that ... and went out to create some "new" music. These were folks that knew what they were doing, but when they decided to do something together it had to be very different from the "norm" (WHICH WAS WHAT THE ART SCENE WAS ABOUT!!!) .... however, I don't think that David D knows/understands the feelings at the time, and how so much of the music we like and consider "progressive" was not just a "song" in the same format as all others. To him, it's all songs, not music, and even someone like Hugh Hopper once said ... "I might as well go wash dishes if you are not here for the music!" And the worst side of it, is that David D has no idea what the connection between many of the Canterbury folks and so many writers and artists, hanging around, including well-known actors. It's a different world when you are into an artistic group, instead of simply thinking "just another rock'n'roll song" (how pathetic!) or let's do a "progressive song" (they wouldn't know progressive from polka dot reggae!). The influences, when it comes to creativity are MASSIVE and they helped what became known as "progressive music", something that David D, I don't think, understands or can relate to. I don't think that David D is always "wrong", he has many good posts out there, but knowing and understanding the history of some of these things is important ... it's bad enough that you can't tell people in this board that there is no difference between Damo and Kinski, because they will ignore it and have no idea why that comparison was made! Like Canterbury, "krautrock" was an art scene, not a rock music scene. SF was an art scene before it got corrupted by idiots with flowers in their hair! NY was an art scene, until someone thought that MM and a Tomato Soup can was more far out than the work itself as an art form ... it became the end of "art" in America!!!! Maybe one day we will give "Progressive Music" some credit it deserves other than being just another pop song out there!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 10:48
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Previously mentioned here were The Beatles and The Doors. It is odd to think back to those times and being exposed to that music through my sister. When I was 10, 11, and 12 my sister was trying to get me to pay attention to the lyricism. It was philosophical and cosmic. Several songs by The Beatles and The Doors were new to those times and I don't believe there were an abundance of bands doing that sort of thing until at least a year after The Beatles and The Doors. Keep in mind that the idea to pursue that style became a major foundation for Progressive Rock regarding concept albums. Jefferson Airplane released Crown Of Creation I believe in 68' and it was an influential album. There are electronics used on that album or perhaps strange sound effects. A style later pursued by Curved Air. The song "Lather" is very much like a Syd Barrett song in several detailed comparisons. It could have been accidental that it sounded like one of his songs. ..or the answer was simply that Barrett listened to Jefferson Airplane. If you put it out of your head that Grace Slick is singing it and try to imagine Barrett singing it instead it all falls into place. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 11:55
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Have you missed pissing me off, Mosh? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 12:31
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As far as progressive rock as we know it, it's ITCotCK by Crimson. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 13:09
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Most important album- King Crimson- ITCOTCK Personal favorite? Jethro Tull Most prolific and amazing during 60s? Miles Davis All Around? Frank Zappa
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Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 13:35
Finally someone who makes sense in this thread. 😀 Thank you SteveG!!!! |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 14:24
Well, I won't say I'm pissed off by that.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 16:27
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Giles, Giles & Fripp. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 17:44
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^ Good argument to be made for them, both Cheerful Insanity and the Brondesbury comp are very significant-- 'Tremolo Study A Major', 'Erudite Eyes', 'Suite No. 1', and of course an infant 'I Talk to he Wind'. Underappreciated outfit, and in a way, the original King Crimson. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 07 2023 at 18:05
Great way to put it. Basically don't get hung up on categorization. It's simply a tool to navigate complex systems. NOT a be all, end all for musical enjoyment :) ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 09 2023 at 07:08
Thanks, mate, that's exactly how I feel about GG&F as well!  I was gobsmacked by their early use of Mellotron, Fripp's very advanced guitar technique, and of course, the Giles brothers contributing. I appreciate your comments! Fripp's chordal work in this song blows my mind! Plus, Mellotron! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 09 2023 at 07:40
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To all of you mentioning American artists, what connection do you see to the British Progressive Rock, or maybe just, how do you see them to be a part of Progressive Rock? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 10 2023 at 04:24
In the case of Frank Zappa and The Mothers, I see stylistic similarities with the Canterbury Scene, and probably being the most important originators of '70s Avant-Prog. Besides that, I surely also think of them as a part of the '60s Counterculture.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 10 2023 at 07:24
Keith Emerson actually admitted that Zappa was a huge inspiration on a lot of musicians. BTW ELP were formed in the seventies as you obviously know, but their previous bands the Nice, King Crimson, The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown and Atomic Rooster were all very significant in the late sixties prog/psyche scene.
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Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: January 10 2023 at 21:35
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The Classical element in the Prog Psychedelic of the 60s soon felt dominating in the world of Progressive Rock in the 70s. In 67' Procol Harum were borrowing signature lines or actual pieces written by Classical composers to fuse with Rock. This gave the band a deep and dark sounding edge to their albums. The music and the lyricism of Keith Reid produced a distinctive style that began surfacing through Progressive Rock. Of course this had already been a plan in motion with the Moody Blues. Bands like The Nice, Beggars Opera, Deep Purple, Lucifer's Friend, Argent, Rare Bird , Curved Air all had keyboardists that dominated the music by borrowing Classical music .. The idea for certain bands to perform or record with an orchestra . ...although Procol Harum didn't feel or seem like Progressive Rock . Instrumentals like "Overture" and "Underture" from Tommy ..The Who seemed far more adventurous than anything Procol Harum could ever do. The fast snare drum rolls played by Keith Moon on "Underture " were more in the style of Carl Palmer and it was unlikely Procol Harum would sound anything close to that. What was termed Art Rock then...imo..was derived from European Classical music and fused with Rock by the British. It contained elements of surprise and a unique combination of the two styles. I believe it inspired musicians in Italy, France, and Japan to follow that path of writing. Stomu Yamashta pursued that style working with Hugh Hopper and others of the Canterbury scene..although there probably wasn't a real scene. Realistically it was merely musicians shifting around. Different aspects in the writing style of Hatfield and the North, National Health, Egg, Gilgamesh, Gong, etc are reminiscent of early Frank Zappa. ...Certain American bands in the 60s were eclectic such as Electric Flag , C.T.A, but hardly ever fusing Classical pieces with Rock. That to me was the heart and soul of England. It inspired American musicians...a huge impact |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 10 2023 at 22:34
| Imo, there was hardly any real prog in the 60s so it's kind of silly to ask this question. Given that many people think KC's debut was the first prog album that means that(to them at least) it was not only the best but just about the only one. I won't go quite that far but I still think it would be like asking for the best african prog keyboard players or something (and no I'm not being racist but just trying to make the point that there aren't many). |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 07:14
How about "In Held Twas in I"? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 07:27
Nevertherless, this is one of the good answers to my question. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 09:09
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 09:15
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Am I allowed to mention Psychedelic Rock bands too, even though they're not True Prog/Real Prog? If so, I can feel another A-Z list coming on.
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 09:41
And I easily imagined, that not everybody would find FKC's answer to be good.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 09:45
An A-Z list may be a bit overwhelming in this case. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 12:15
But it might be interesting to discuss. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 12:20
Agree with you 100%, Mike. The question is how can we convince David and the others that progressive rock didn't exist in true, real, full blown form in the 60s besides KC? I am going to try one last time. Many artists, bands were called progressive in the 60s, it doesn't mean they played, composed and recorded progressive rock songs. Bob Dylan was called progressive artist in the 60s because of his lyrics. Miles Davis was called progressive. One of the most influential jazz musician of all time, why not call him progressive (moving forward, groundbreaking). It doesn't mean he was a progressive rock artist. Days of Future Passed by many considered first progressive rock album, but why? People, there is nothing proggy about this album. Innovative, groundbreaking, yes, but this is not progressive rock or symphonic rock. Bunch of well written, beautiful pop-rock songs, with psychedelic influences, mixed in with classical interludes performed by London Festival Orchestra. The orchestra and the band never played together, they were never in the recording studio together. The classical pieces were arranged by Peter Knight, the orchestra's conductor. And you call this album first symphonic rock album ever? C'mon! One of the most influential 60s album, yes definitely. I believe in early 2000s, Deram reissued early Moody Bluess albums. They all come with bonus tracks and the insert included the interview with one of the members of the band. Justin Hayward was asked by interviewer "were you ever considered yourselves as progressive rock band? His answer was no, we were never part of progressive rock movement. I guess people are confused by the term proto-progreesive. The term means that the artist / band might influenced other bands to become progressive rock bands and were essential to the development of progressive rock. It doesn't mean that the band itself was or become later progressive rock band. The Beatles were the most influential bands of the 60s. They never played progressive rock or become one. The same with Moody Blues, Procol Harum, the Nice and the rest of the 60s bands mentioned in this thread except for King Crimson. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 13:09
That is indeed interesting. Can you also tell who wrote those "classical interludes/pieces"? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 13:16
| Some of them by Peter Knight, some by him + Moody Blues member. Wiki has all the details under "Track Listing" section. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 14:05
thanks ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 14:35
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One more post that maybe better explains what I tried to explain above: the difference between "progressive" used as an adjective and progressive rock (style of music). This was written by HolyMoly, retired PA admin in 2013: "There is a distinction between "prog" the style and "progressive" the adjective. That said, I've been a lifelong Moody Blues fan (literally; I was listening to them daily at age 4) and I see their first four (not counting the Denny Laine period, natch) albums as crucial building blocks for what would become "prog" the style (exemplified by Crimson's first album). However, I do believe that all of their "big seven" albums are progressive (the adjective). Subtle difference, but one I've come to accept here." |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 17:30
David D...I stand corrected. In Held Twas In I does in fact have music characteristics of Progressive Rock. I never thought Robin Trower was a Progressive Rock guitarist, but the rest of the band seem to produce a Progressive Rock style in that piece...but I'm probably thinking of Progressive Rock to be more along the lines of Steve Howe, Rick Wakeman, Chris Squire, Keith Emerson, Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, and Michael Giles..which that style of playing didn't seem to exist in the music of Procol Harum. I'm definitely thinking more about the style that the aforementioned played in the early 70s. But I'm being one sided about that and yes you are correct about this.. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 18:29
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Actually, that's AFKC. The first part is for "A flower?" which of course was a line in Supper's Ready. As to whether my answer is good or not depends on whether someone feels there was a lot of true (or real prog) in that decade. I'm ok with whatever as long as the Moody Blues and The Nice fit in there somewhere. Also, I don't necessarily think that "the red faced guy" album was the very first prog album but it was probably the first official one.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 19:04
 Blood, Sweat & Tears ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 20:22
| ^ No, definitely not.God, I beg you, say something, anything? No? Okay, maybe next David's thread solves anything on this site.😉 |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 11 2023 at 22:07
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^ Oh yes my friend: one of the tightest, most inspired rock-fusion bands of the era... even their hits were progressive - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFEewD4EVwU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFEewD4EVwU K I C K A S S ! ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 03:45
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My A-Z of the Most Influential Sixties Bands (subject to discussion) A - The Animals B - The Beatles C - Cream D - The Doors E - Edgar Broughton Band F - Free G - Grateful Dead H - Jimi Hendrix Experience I - Iron Butterfly J - Jefferson Airplane K - King Crimson L - Led Zeppelin M - The Moody Blues N - The Nice O - Orpheus (USA) P - Pink Floyd Q - Quicksilver Messenger Service R - The Rolling Stones S - Spirit T - Traffic U - Ultimate Spinach V - Vanilla Fudge W - The Who X - Xhol Caravan Y - The Yardbirds Z - The Zombies
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 04:58
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Frankly speaking, I'm not sure what to think - my OP question can be viewed and tried to answer from several different perspectives. But I like the idea of ItCotCK being the first full blown Progressive Rock album. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 06:01
I've got an idea for a thread which you might be the best man to run: "Your Top 10 of the Most Influential Sixties Bands" ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 06:36
My hopes for "my" threads are more like good discussions than solutions - but maybe a part of the basis for some good solutions. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 09:38
Great list, Paul. I am not familiar with Orpheus (USA), but I wouldn't be able to suggest any other influential band with a name starting with a letter "O". |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 09:55
Thanks! Here's a list of six British Psychedelic Rock bands beginning with the letter "O" who are even more obscure than Orpheus.  1969: Octopus - Restless Night - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCr5GCgiM7pZsEQsonE6TyISJSSAHB2bt" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCr5GCgiM7pZsEQsonE6TyISJSSAHB2bt  1969: The Open Mind - The Open Mind - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_niMtBPdXLnBhA38aPchHkn-vqNpF1nNbA" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_niMtBPdXLnBhA38aPchHkn-vqNpF1nNbA 1969: One - One - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peI71PYgzqs" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peI71PYgzqs 1971: Open Road - Windy Daze - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kqM-1B9NoHQcILgrrgFhfYReqW_WuWL6o" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kqM-1B9NoHQcILgrrgFhfYReqW_WuWL6o  2009: The Onyx - Kaleidoscope of Colours - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLUvk66O2BM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLUvk66O2BM 1968: One in a Million - Double Sight - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3sCvymB1_w" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3sCvymB1_w |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 11:29
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Hmmm....tough question considering ,as many have said , there really weren't many people doing 'full blown' prog then. The Nice and East of Eden were prog rock to my ears and Zappa on Hot Rats... and are listed that way here... Moody Blues and Procol are listed as 'crossover'. KC's debut works for me for lack of a better choice ,but hell it came out in Oct 1969...the 60's were gone by then. Maybe best prog band of the 70's is a more relevant question..?  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: telefunk
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 11:49
| Sixties? Nobody was progressive except the jazz guys. Yeah OK maybe Abbey Road. |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 14:32
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Incredible String band. Ok they weren't a rock band but they were definitely forward thinking MF's (to borrow Julian Cope's favourite phrase) and had made a string of mind bending and influential albums before the 60's were out.. ------------- |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 15:10
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My thanks to everybody for the good discussion we've had. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 22:46
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And I'm glad that nobody has mentioned The Beatles as the best Progressive Rock band of the '60s - or OK, maybe almost nobody. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 12 2023 at 23:43
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By now I find it even more interesting with the evolvement of Progressive Rock in the late '60s (and early '70s), and not least how to view the characteristics, importance and influence of the Canterbury and the American scenes vs King Crimson, VdGG, Jethro Tull and the Symphonic Prog - for not to talk about Pink Floyd and Space Rock.  Is it for instance historically speaking best to view the Canterbury scene as a part of Progressive Rock or as a separate movement? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: January 13 2023 at 17:19
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It takes a moment to even think who were around in the 60's and doing prog., but I'd give the vote to: Moody Blues I don't consider early Tull to be prog. It wasn't until Aqualung / Thick as a Brick that they really got going in that direction.
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Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: January 13 2023 at 19:51
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Justin Hayward probably stated that the Moody Blues were not Progressive Rock..however Threshold On A Dream and To Our Children's Children's Children flowed like Progressive Rock albums. Perhaps he perceived that as accidental. He could have easily written songs which blended with Pinder, Thomas, and Lodge songs and their albums felt like concepts. I believe that 60s bands applied the usage of specific elements and ideas that later surfaced in Progressive Rock. George Martin and The Beatles were responsible for a lot of it. Beaver and Krause were influential to Progressive Rock because they introduced the synthesizer to Pop Music and by doing so..it gained the interest of new Progressive Rock bands who were just forming and using the synthesizer to create a signature sound in Prog. Paul Beaver helped design Keith Emerson's first synthesizer. It was a fascinating time period |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 14 2023 at 01:13
| ^ not Bob Moog then? |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: January 14 2023 at 07:22
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Seatrain should be on this list, somewhere. |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: January 14 2023 at 10:44
Bob Moog because he invented the instrument. Musicians were unable to play synthesizer sounds on a keyboard and Bob Moog made it possible for them to do that when he invented the Moog Synthesizer. Beaver And Krause, Wendy Carlos, Mort Garson, Ruth White, etc..all consulted with him. It seemed more of a situation where they were the Musicians and Bob Moog was the inventor opening their world to new ideas and concepts for music. As if Beaver and Krause notified Bob Moog that they were going to set up a Moog Synthesizer at the gates of Monterey Pop Festival and that maybe Bob Moog said.." Great..go for it". and shortly after Beaver and Krause began assisting George Harrison and The Doors to produce Psychedelic Music using a synthesizer. I believe that Keith Emerson probably explained what he wanted out of a Moog Synthesizer and that Paul Beaver put all of his energies into designing it for him. Paul Beaver had assembled musicians at Grace Cathedral to record 5 instrumental pieces . The cathedral contained a hollow reverb quality and a short delay . This became an idea for European musicians to pursue. It was the beginnings of Ambient and later New Age...however the idea was utilized later on by Jade Warrior, Steve Jolliffe, Stomu Yamashta, and probably several others as years progressed. The band YES utilized the sound to create soundscape backing for Jon Anderson's voice. It's possible that Paul Beaver came up with the concept, but using real instruments and less synthesizer..which became a ritual for bands like Pulsar . It's conceivable that Delia Derbyshire was a major influence on the idea of making Rock more cosmic in Europe..as Paul McCartney was very interested in consulting with her after writing "Yesterday". On her album DREAMS she creates the same ambience that Brian Eno used in the 70s. Her usage of sound generators and cutting tapes to form melodies formed an odd style of phrasing which is present in the "Dr. Who" theme but later adapted with more advanced keyboard technology in 70s Prog. Delia Derbyshire was a major influence on keyboardist sounds , rhythmical patterns, and creepy phrasing later on in Prog. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 15 2023 at 04:15
| Interesting, Emerson only seemed to give credit to Moog but that was presumably for commercial reasons! |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: January 15 2023 at 04:34
I Love the sound of Seatrain!
 I'll add them to my Strange Psychedelic Daze blog. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 15 2023 at 09:24
While RYM classifies them as Psychedelic but more in the Folk or Folk-Rock category. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: enigmatic
Date Posted: January 15 2023 at 17:22
I know what I will be listening to tonight,after my wife goes to bed. Thanks for the recommendation! |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: January 16 2023 at 01:31
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The Moody Pop?  No------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 16 2023 at 04:13
According to my info, On August 1969 a set of concerts called Jazz in the Garden was held at the MoMA (Museum of Modern Art) in New York, in which one of the concerts (on August 28th) was a demonstration of the Moog's synthesizer. Bob Moog prepared a set of synths specifically for this concert, and they were played by Bob Moog himself, Herb Deutsch and a couple of other musicians. One of the modular sets was a custom model which they called 1Ca, modified from the standard-spec 1C orienting it more to live performance (and crucially including a primitive 5-preset sounds box which stood on its top). When ELP recorded their debut album, and most well-known the Lucky Man solo, Keith did not have a Moog himself yet, he used the borrowed one from Mike Vickers of Manfred Mann, which was the first which had arrived in the UK. A few months later Keith contacted Moog as he wanted to buy one, and they sold him the 1Ca from the Jazz in the Garden show, which he went on expanding from then on. In this pic we can see Keith still with the 1Ca before it became much bigger in a 3C cabinet.  |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 16 2023 at 04:20
| cheers, great photo! |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: January 16 2023 at 07:16
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Soft Machine - a supergroup in reverse. Honourable mentions to the pioneering work of The Nice, Moody Blues and Pink Floyd of course.
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: January 17 2023 at 15:47
Great post. Thank you. ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 18 2023 at 09:47
Good lp..their first 3 are all good. Another one with similar vibes was The Flock. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: January 18 2023 at 13:32
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The Doors ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |