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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130204 Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 23:35 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Is "Nektar" real Psychedelic Prog?Posted By: O666
Subject: Is "Nektar" real Psychedelic Prog?
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 12:10
Hi
From 3 months ago , I started to listening oldies album by album. When I reached to Nektar , I heard different touch than I listened before! I found too many "YES" musical elements in their 70's era music.
Honestly , I doubt about their sub-gen in PA as Psychedelic/Space Rock prog. Its clear (for me ) that they are not Symph Prog or Eclectic but I'm sure they are not P/S .
What is your opinion about it? I really want to talk about it if anyone interested to talk. Perhaps I mistake about it but in this time , I really think they are not Psychedelic.
Thanks
Replies: Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 12:17
It rather depends on the album, but I'd put it as more space rock than psych rock. I think it's appropriate for the Psychedelic/ Space Rock category at PA where it is.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 12:19
One of the downfalls of this site is that we can't multiple tag individual albums like RYM
The answer to your question is that Nektar were quite eclectic and were symph, space, funk, Kraut, hard rock as well as a jam band.
Often we evaluate on a single album's experience and make our decisions based on a particular album.
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
I'd probably prefer an eclectic tag as well but ultimately we have better things to worry about than reassigning artists that are somewhat OK with where they sit.
I'm OK with Nektar in the psych category myself.
There are many artists on PA i would love to see reassigned but considering we are short staffed there are more important things to focus our attention on :)
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 12:38
siLLy puPPy wrote:
One of the downfalls of this site is that we can't multiple tag individual albums like RYM
The answer to your question is that Nektar were quite eclectic and were symph, space, funk, Kraut, hard rock as well as a jam band.
Often we evaluate on a single album's experience and make our decisions based on a particular album.
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
I'd probably prefer an eclectic tag as well but ultimately we have better things to worry about than reassigning artists that are somewhat OK with where they sit.
I'm OK with Nektar in the psych category myself.
There are many artists on PA i would love to see reassigned but considering we are short staffed there are more important things to focus our attention on :)
Hi.
Ofcourse you (or anybody) cant do it (about multi tags) . I guess you mean , you focused on 2-3 albums and then reach to the agreements about genres. Its logical but I cant say "Remember the future" is a Psychedelic album.
About Nektar first 3 albums that you mentioned , in compare to Pink Floyd (as a near sample) , I convinced Pink Floyd is a Psychedelic Prog band and we know all of PF albums are not Psychedelic. In Nektar case , I didnt find exact Psyc elements like Ummagumma .
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 12:43
Logan wrote:
It rather depends on the album, but I'd put it as more space rock than psych rock. I think it's appropriate for the Psychedelic/ Space Rock category at PA where it is.
Hi Logan. How are you?
I dont agree . With this POV , Xover is a better Sub-gen for Nektar if we see all of their albums together IMO
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 13:17
I think Nektar belong in the same category as Motorpsycho, whatever that is.
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 13:32
O666 wrote:
Logan wrote:
It rather depends on the album, but I'd put it as more space rock than psych rock. I think it's appropriate for the Psychedelic/ Space Rock category at PA where it is.
Hi Logan. How are you?
I dont agree . With this POV , Xover is a better Sub-gen for Nektar if we see all of their albums together IMO
I'm fine thanks, yourself? I only know the albums up to and including Recycled with Journey to the Centre of the Eye being my favourite, which I do think is the classic period that people into Prog at least tend to think of. That contains the albums that I have seen see come up again and again at PA over the years.
I would far prefer album tagging and multi-genre tagging for album rather than just placing a band in a sub-genre, but this is a limitation of the site architecture. Not sure if you got the point I intended, however. While I don't want to get into the "real" Psych Prog thing too much, as that's a can of worms, and we risk going madly into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman" rel="nofollow - "no true Scotsman" territory, I meant that I was thinking that I tend to think that of the "classic" period, even if it is not Psych enough to be considered truly Psych, I believe that it is Space Rock enough to be a fair addition to the Psych AND Space Rock category.
By the way, on side-note, I think it's fair to evaluate suitability (hardly ideal under our system) for a category based on the most relevant to PA albums, the ones that one thinks Proggers will be most interested in, and the ones that tend to get the most acclaim and notice. Genesis could be in Crossover based on all of the albums. How Space and/or Psych Nektar is depends on the album.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 14:09
One of the best things about this site is we don't have multiple tagging for individual albums.
It's also worth mentioning that Psychedelic Rock and Space Rock have always been two entirely different genres to me, even if to no one else here.
And when I think of Space Rock, it Sounds Like This.....
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 14:15
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
...
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
...
Hi,
I think that Nektar was considered "psychedelic" more because of its art work and the light shows, which, if you remember, one member of the band is the lighting man!
The light shows, all the way up until RTF were on all sides of the stage, including above, so it was like a theater box set, and it should rightly be considered "psychedelic", with its images and designs a really good primer to what the Fillmore and many other places showed all the time. In another post of mine in regards to light shows, I thought that these done by Nektar were more FOCUSED on the subject matter, instead of the effect and craziness of the old light shows which had very little meaning other than the show factor and its far out moments.
However, in the album SOUNDS LIKE THIS, I don't see the two LP's as psychedelic at all ... more like a far out long cut rock band, just splitting the ears left and right with some outstanding material, at least 2 pieces of which became a part of their shows and were well known, even though SLT was not released in the USA until much later ... giving it a different touch and experience.
RTF and the album blow out with Larry Fast, were "psychedelic" in presentation, although I think that the lyrics take it away from that and (specially) in RECYCLED were mostly a bunch of songs, some of which had already appeared on their shows (MM for one), and in many ways the whole thing was not psychedelic, but the powow attitude and presentation of the assault in the album from beginning to end, made it seem like psychedelic, although I would not consider it so at all ... it was way too serious for that in my book.
Being listed in "psychedelic" is not the worst of all places ... worst would be "symphonic" simply because the band has keyboards, and they are not symphonic at all ... in terms of musical terms and proper definitions.
Regardless, NEKTAR, was spectacular with outstanding shows, and SLT is a perfect example of the quality you saw in concert ... non-stop and totally strong ... until the days in the life of a preacher came to an end ... when Roye passed away out of air and energy. A sad going away, but the legacy and the beauty left behind is special ... very special, regardless of how it is "labelled" and thought of.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 14:33
O666 wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
One of the downfalls of this site is that we can't multiple tag individual albums like RYM
The answer to your question is that Nektar were quite eclectic and were symph, space, funk, Kraut, hard rock as well as a jam band.
Often we evaluate on a single album's experience and make our decisions based on a particular album.
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
I'd probably prefer an eclectic tag as well but ultimately we have better things to worry about than reassigning artists that are somewhat OK with where they sit.
I'm OK with Nektar in the psych category myself.
There are many artists on PA i would love to see reassigned but considering we are short staffed there are more important things to focus our attention on :)
Hi.
Ofcourse you (or anybody) cant do it (about multi tags) . I guess you mean , you focused on 2-3 albums and then reach to the agreements about genres. Its logical but I cant say "Remember the future" is a Psychedelic album.
About Nektar first 3 albums that you mentioned , in compare to Pink Floyd (as a near sample) , I convinced Pink Floyd is a Psychedelic Prog band and we know all of PF albums are not Psychedelic. In Nektar case , I didnt find exact Psyc elements like Ummagumma .
Perhaps you are limiting yourself to what YOU think psychedelic rock is. The term has a broader meaning than you would expect which is why heavier rock bands like Hawkwind are there. It's not just Pink Floyd.
According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct but this is fairly accruate): (just apply this to progressive rock and it makes perfect sense why Nektar is psychedelic here and not just heavy)
Psychedelic rock is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre" rel="nofollow - genre that is inspired, influenced, or representative of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelia" rel="nofollow - psychedelic culture, which is centered on perception-altering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen" rel="nofollow - hallucinogenic drugs. The music incorporated new electronic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_effect" rel="nofollow - sound effects and recording techniques, extended instrumental solos, and improvisation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-PrownNewquist48-3" rel="nofollow - [2] Many psychedelic groups differ in style, and the label is often applied spuriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
Originating in the mid-1960s among British and American
musicians, the sound of psychedelic rock invokes three core effects of
LSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization" rel="nofollow - depersonalization , dechronicization, and dynamization, all of which detach the user from everyday reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3] Musically, the effects may be represented via novelty studio tricks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music" rel="nofollow - electronic or non-Western instrumentation, disjunctive song structures, and extended instrumental segments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063–66-5" rel="nofollow - [4] Some of the earlier 1960s psychedelic rock musicians were based in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz , and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues , while others showcased an explicit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical" rel="nofollow - Indian classical influence called " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_rock" rel="nofollow - raga rock ".
In the 1960s, there existed two main variants of the genre: the more
whimsical, surrealist British psychedelia and the harder American West
Coast " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock ".
While "acid rock" is sometimes deployed interchangeably with the term
"psychedelic rock", it also refers more specifically to the heavier,
harder, and more extreme ends of the genre.
The peak years of psychedelic rock were between 1967 and 1969, with milestone events including the 1967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Love" rel="nofollow - Summer of Love and the 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_Festival" rel="nofollow - Woodstock Rock Festival , becoming an international musical movement associated with a widespread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s" rel="nofollow - counterculture
before beginning a decline as changing attitudes, the loss of some key
individuals, and a back-to-basics movement led surviving performers to
move into new musical areas. The genre bridged the transition from early
blues and folk-based rock to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rock" rel="nofollow - hard rock , and as a result contributed to the development of sub-genres such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music" rel="nofollow - heavy metal . Since the late 1970s it has been revived in various forms of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-psychedelia" rel="nofollow - neo-psychedelia .
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 18:42
I recall their first album being a combination of Psychedelic and or Space Rock..but..somewhat in the style of Krautrock. A Tab In The Ocean is not Psychedelic to me as I feel that it is more like YES ...in the sense that it begins with sounds of the ocean ( I believe?) and it's somehow reminiscent of Close To The Edge within the idea of how it's structured. What I mean is how the mood of the writing was conceived and that it seemed structured or pieced together in a relation to what YES would sometimes create...but they are not playing like YES or emulating personal elements of the musicians in YES like Starcastle seemed to do.
Remember The Future contained "Funk" rhythms in certain songs. I wasn't particularly fond of it. I listen to Funk and I love it. As a teenager I felt disappointed in Nektar's Funk style. I don't understand why...but perhaps it was something childish like I didn't expect Nektar to play that way and my hope was in the band staying cosmic or Progressive.
Maybe I was a fan of Tab In The Ocean and desired to hear more of the same. In the 70s I didn't think of Nektar being Psychedelic. I thought of Pink Floyd Ummagumma being experimental. The fact that "Several Species Of Small Furry Animals " was practically lifted from Ron Geesin produced an Avant-garde experimental style more so than American Psychedelic or British Psychedelic. Although Pink Floyd were part of British Psychedelic they sometimes drifted into obscure areas. For example..Rick Wright's keyboard work on the studio side of Ummagumma sounded a lot like Tangerine Dream on Atem and Zeit.
Certain Krautrock bands produced a Space Rock sound that wasn't consistent and Nektar seemed to fall into that category. For example...Hawkwind would often hold back on electronic oscillating sounds to compromise with the song writing itself. For example...I can hear..( in my head)..The Moody Blues singing Assault And Battery and the abundance of Mellotron in that song and "The Golden Void" comes across with a trademark of The Moody Blues. "Levitation is a song which doesn't represent Space Rock and is "straight ahead" Rock..where the rest of the album features spacey electronics divided in sections of songs as opposed to dominating them as they did on Space Ritual. Nektar seemed to be spacey at times..but sparingly..
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: December 12 2022 at 23:23
I think if you look at the criteria for Space Rock, then some of early Nektar can be seen as such, justifying the classification, while at the same time arguing they are not psychedelic prog.
A band in the category of psychedelic/space rock could be thought of as being one, the other, or both.
In the post/math rock category, it seems more distinct where very few bands I would consider as both post and math rock. Can't think of one at the moment.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 00:46
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 04:21
siLLy puPPy wrote:
O666 wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
One of the downfalls of this site is that we can't multiple tag individual albums like RYM
The answer to your question is that Nektar were quite eclectic and were symph, space, funk, Kraut, hard rock as well as a jam band.
Often we evaluate on a single album's experience and make our decisions based on a particular album.
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
I'd probably prefer an eclectic tag as well but ultimately we have better things to worry about than reassigning artists that are somewhat OK with where they sit.
I'm OK with Nektar in the psych category myself.
There are many artists on PA i would love to see reassigned but considering we are short staffed there are more important things to focus our attention on :)
Hi.
Ofcourse you (or anybody) cant do it (about multi tags) . I guess you mean , you focused on 2-3 albums and then reach to the agreements about genres. Its logical but I cant say "Remember the future" is a Psychedelic album.
About Nektar first 3 albums that you mentioned , in compare to Pink Floyd (as a near sample) , I convinced Pink Floyd is a Psychedelic Prog band and we know all of PF albums are not Psychedelic. In Nektar case , I didnt find exact Psyc elements like Ummagumma .
Perhaps you are limiting yourself to what YOU think psychedelic rock is. The term has a broader meaning than you would expect which is why heavier rock bands like Hawkwind are there. It's not just Pink Floyd.
According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct but this is fairly accruate): (just apply this to progressive rock and it makes perfect sense why Nektar is psychedelic here and not just heavy)
Psychedelic rock is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre" rel="nofollow - genre that is inspired, influenced, or representative of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelia" rel="nofollow - psychedelic culture, which is centered on perception-altering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen" rel="nofollow - hallucinogenic drugs. The music incorporated new electronic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_effect" rel="nofollow - sound effects and recording techniques, extended instrumental solos, and improvisation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-PrownNewquist48-3" rel="nofollow - [2] Many psychedelic groups differ in style, and the label is often applied spuriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
Originating in the mid-1960s among British and American
musicians, the sound of psychedelic rock invokes three core effects of
LSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization" rel="nofollow - depersonalization , dechronicization, and dynamization, all of which detach the user from everyday reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3] Musically, the effects may be represented via novelty studio tricks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music" rel="nofollow - electronic or non-Western instrumentation, disjunctive song structures, and extended instrumental segments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063–66-5" rel="nofollow - [4] Some of the earlier 1960s psychedelic rock musicians were based in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz , and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues , while others showcased an explicit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical" rel="nofollow - Indian classical influence called " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_rock" rel="nofollow - raga rock ".
In the 1960s, there existed two main variants of the genre: the more
whimsical, surrealist British psychedelia and the harder American West
Coast " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock ".
While "acid rock" is sometimes deployed interchangeably with the term
"psychedelic rock", it also refers more specifically to the heavier,
harder, and more extreme ends of the genre.
The peak years of psychedelic rock were between 1967 and 1969, with milestone events including the 1967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Love" rel="nofollow - Summer of Love and the 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_Festival" rel="nofollow - Woodstock Rock Festival , becoming an international musical movement associated with a widespread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s" rel="nofollow - counterculture
before beginning a decline as changing attitudes, the loss of some key
individuals, and a back-to-basics movement led surviving performers to
move into new musical areas. The genre bridged the transition from early
blues and folk-based rock to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rock" rel="nofollow - hard rock , and as a result contributed to the development of sub-genres such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music" rel="nofollow - heavy metal . Since the late 1970s it has been revived in various forms of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-psychedelia" rel="nofollow - neo-psychedelia .
Come on! Why you accused me to limited mind guy?! I just share my opinion about one of the most impressive band in Progressive history.
I dont have any problem with genres . I always try to find out new stuffs in music that I thought no one talked about it and try to learn more .
You refer me to bad source . I dont expected it from guys like you....
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 04:24
moshkito wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
...
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
...
Hi,
I think that Nektar was considered "psychedelic" more because of its art work and the light shows, which, if you remember, one member of the band is the lighting man!
The light shows, all the way up until RTF were on all sides of the stage, including above, so it was like a theater box set, and it should rightly be considered "psychedelic", with its images and designs a really good primer to what the Fillmore and many other places showed all the time. In another post of mine in regards to light shows, I thought that these done by Nektar were more FOCUSED on the subject matter, instead of the effect and craziness of the old light shows which had very little meaning other than the show factor and its far out moments.
However, in the album SOUNDS LIKE THIS, I don't see the two LP's as psychedelic at all ... more like a far out long cut rock band, just splitting the ears left and right with some outstanding material, at least 2 pieces of which became a part of their shows and were well known, even though SLT was not released in the USA until much later ... giving it a different touch and experience.
RTF and the album blow out with Larry Fast, were "psychedelic" in presentation, although I think that the lyrics take it away from that and (specially) in RECYCLED were mostly a bunch of songs, some of which had already appeared on their shows (MM for one), and in many ways the whole thing was not psychedelic, but the powow attitude and presentation of the assault in the album from beginning to end, made it seem like psychedelic, although I would not consider it so at all ... it was way too serious for that in my book.
Being listed in "psychedelic" is not the worst of all places ... worst would be "symphonic" simply because the band has keyboards, and they are not symphonic at all ... in terms of musical terms and proper definitions.
Regardless, NEKTAR, was spectacular with outstanding shows, and SLT is a perfect example of the quality you saw in concert ... non-stop and totally strong ... until the days in the life of a preacher came to an end ... when Roye passed away out of air and energy. A sad going away, but the legacy and the beauty left behind is special ... very special, regardless of how it is "labelled" and thought of.
Hi.
You mentioned to very important points . Specially about Lyrics . I like your POV . Thanks for your time. I always learn from you . Thanks
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 04:50
Let me explain about my post.
I dont want to drop in "Sub-Gens" argue trap. I dont want to say Psych/SR is fit for Nektar or not in PA or anywhere and I dont care about it.
I want to know other opinions about this kind of bands that shift from genres but its dont hurt to their musical touch and solidarity.
Sometimes (as moshkito said) , We can focus on their live performance and Lyrics. In some cases Vocalists do it and in many cases Guitarists do it.
Nektar's RTF remind me YES's "Starship troopers" in first meet and it grew up in my mind at every listens during over 35-36 years.
Another important thing that I want to talk about it is IMO in late 60's era , most of Progressive Rock bands that worked at that time , used Space Rock elements in their music and in early 70''s era , they find their style and identity. I can talk about why serious musicians did it in late 60's era but I afraid from feedbacks in this forum!!! Some "Special Collabs and 5 star " guys try to dictate their opinions by attack and accuse guys like me!!!
My English is not good enough and it tied my hands.................
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 05:00
Logan wrote:
O666 wrote:
Logan wrote:
It rather depends on the album, but I'd put it as more space rock than psych rock. I think it's appropriate for the Psychedelic/ Space Rock category at PA where it is.
Hi Logan. How are you?
I dont agree . With this POV , Xover is a better Sub-gen for Nektar if we see all of their albums together IMO
I'm fine thanks, yourself? I only know the albums up to and including Recycled with Journey to the Centre of the Eye being my favourite, which I do think is the classic period that people into Prog at least tend to think of. That contains the albums that I have seen see come up again and again at PA over the years.
I would far prefer album tagging and multi-genre tagging for album rather than just placing a band in a sub-genre, but this is a limitation of the site architecture. Not sure if you got the point I intended, however. While I don't want to get into the "real" Psych Prog thing too much, as that's a can of worms, and we risk going madly into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman" rel="nofollow - "no true Scotsman" territory, I meant that I was thinking that I tend to think that of the "classic" period, even if it is not Psych enough to be considered truly Psych, I believe that it is Space Rock enough to be a fair addition to the Psych AND Space Rock category.
By the way, on side-note, I think it's fair to evaluate suitability (hardly ideal under our system) for a category based on the most relevant to PA albums, the ones that one thinks Proggers will be most interested in, and the ones that tend to get the most acclaim and notice. Genesis could be in Crossover based on all of the albums. How Space and/or Psych Nektar is depends on the album.
I'm not good Logan. I am living in Iran. We are in a very harsh situation. I dont want talk about what happened in Iran in this post. I guess people around the world knew about us and our fight to brutal regime.
back to topic , I dont want to argue about how you tag genres to bands. Its not important for me and its not my problem. Basically , I dont have any problem with it.
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 06:14
O666 wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
O666 wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
One of the downfalls of this site is that we can't multiple tag individual albums like RYM
The answer to your question is that Nektar were quite eclectic and were symph, space, funk, Kraut, hard rock as well as a jam band.
Often we evaluate on a single album's experience and make our decisions based on a particular album.
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
I'd probably prefer an eclectic tag as well but ultimately we have better things to worry about than reassigning artists that are somewhat OK with where they sit.
I'm OK with Nektar in the psych category myself.
There are many artists on PA i would love to see reassigned but considering we are short staffed there are more important things to focus our attention on :)
Hi.
Ofcourse you (or anybody) cant do it (about multi tags) . I guess you mean , you focused on 2-3 albums and then reach to the agreements about genres. Its logical but I cant say "Remember the future" is a Psychedelic album.
About Nektar first 3 albums that you mentioned , in compare to Pink Floyd (as a near sample) , I convinced Pink Floyd is a Psychedelic Prog band and we know all of PF albums are not Psychedelic. In Nektar case , I didnt find exact Psyc elements like Ummagumma .
Perhaps you are limiting yourself to what YOU think psychedelic rock is. The term has a broader meaning than you would expect which is why heavier rock bands like Hawkwind are there. It's not just Pink Floyd.
According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct but this is fairly accruate): (just apply this to progressive rock and it makes perfect sense why Nektar is psychedelic here and not just heavy)
Psychedelic rock is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre" rel="nofollow - genre that is inspired, influenced, or representative of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelia" rel="nofollow - psychedelic culture, which is centered on perception-altering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen" rel="nofollow - hallucinogenic drugs. The music incorporated new electronic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_effect" rel="nofollow - sound effects and recording techniques, extended instrumental solos, and improvisation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-PrownNewquist48-3" rel="nofollow - [2] Many psychedelic groups differ in style, and the label is often applied spuriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
Originating in the mid-1960s among British and American
musicians, the sound of psychedelic rock invokes three core effects of
LSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization" rel="nofollow - depersonalization , dechronicization, and dynamization, all of which detach the user from everyday reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3] Musically, the effects may be represented via novelty studio tricks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music" rel="nofollow - electronic or non-Western instrumentation, disjunctive song structures, and extended instrumental segments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063–66-5" rel="nofollow - [4] Some of the earlier 1960s psychedelic rock musicians were based in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz , and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues , while others showcased an explicit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical" rel="nofollow - Indian classical influence called " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_rock" rel="nofollow - raga rock ".
In the 1960s, there existed two main variants of the genre: the more
whimsical, surrealist British psychedelia and the harder American West
Coast " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock ".
While "acid rock" is sometimes deployed interchangeably with the term
"psychedelic rock", it also refers more specifically to the heavier,
harder, and more extreme ends of the genre.
The peak years of psychedelic rock were between 1967 and 1969, with milestone events including the 1967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Love" rel="nofollow - Summer of Love and the 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_Festival" rel="nofollow - Woodstock Rock Festival , becoming an international musical movement associated with a widespread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s" rel="nofollow - counterculture
before beginning a decline as changing attitudes, the loss of some key
individuals, and a back-to-basics movement led surviving performers to
move into new musical areas. The genre bridged the transition from early
blues and folk-based rock to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rock" rel="nofollow - hard rock , and as a result contributed to the development of sub-genres such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music" rel="nofollow - heavy metal . Since the late 1970s it has been revived in various forms of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-psychedelia" rel="nofollow - neo-psychedelia .
Come on! Why you accused me to limited mind guy?! I just share my opinion about one of the most impressive band in Progressive history.
I dont have any problem with genres . I always try to find out new stuffs in music that I thought no one talked about it and try to learn more .
You refer me to bad source . I dont expected it from guys like you....
Well i'm on the PSIKE team so i guess i don't know what i'm talking about.
This is how psychedelic rock is defined. Either accept it or not.
It makes me no difference but i guarantee you that Nektar is not moving.
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 06:16
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
All genres are descriptors! People get too hung up about this stuff. Eclectic simply means that no genre is the dominant one. I love the tag eclectic because it tells me that the artist at hand cannot easily be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. To me it makes more sense than RPI here.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 08:14
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
All genres are descriptors! People get too hung up about this stuff. Eclectic simply means that no genre is the dominant one. I love the tag eclectic because it tells me that the artist at hand cannot easily be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. To me it makes more sense than RPI here.
Good for you.I still think Eclectic is silly as prog is eclectic by default. Practically every song on every 1970's album by Genesis and Yes is eclectic and neither of their careers can be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. Same goes for Banco, Le Orme and PFM...
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 08:31
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
All genres are descriptors! People get too hung up about this stuff. Eclectic simply means that no genre is the dominant one. I love the tag eclectic because it tells me that the artist at hand cannot easily be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. To me it makes more sense than RPI here.
Good for you.I still think Eclectic is silly as prog is eclectic by default. Practically every song on every 1970's album by Genesis and Yes is eclectic and neither of their careers can be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. Same goes for Banco, Le Orme and PFM...
You're totally missing the point of the genre. Of course all prog is eclectic but every single early Yes and Genesis is clearly symphonic prog dominated. Eclectic prog means NO genre is dominate. Eclectic is the PA way of having multliple genre tags with equal standing.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 09:25
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
All genres are descriptors! People get too hung up about this stuff. Eclectic simply means that no genre is the dominant one. I love the tag eclectic because it tells me that the artist at hand cannot easily be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. To me it makes more sense than RPI here.
Good for you.I still think Eclectic is silly as prog is eclectic by default. Practically every song on every 1970's album by Genesis and Yes is eclectic and neither of their careers can be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. Same goes for Banco, Le Orme and PFM...
You're totally missing the point of the genre. Of course all prog is eclectic but every single early Yes and Genesis is clearly symphonic prog dominated. Eclectic prog means NO genre is dominate. Eclectic is the PA way of having multliple genre tags with equal standing.
Which is completely inane.
-You're missing my point. And has it cought on anywhere else. No, of course not.
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 09:28
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
All genres are descriptors! People get too hung up about this stuff. Eclectic simply means that no genre is the dominant one. I love the tag eclectic because it tells me that the artist at hand cannot easily be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. To me it makes more sense than RPI here.
Good for you.I still think Eclectic is silly as prog is eclectic by default. Practically every song on every 1970's album by Genesis and Yes is eclectic and neither of their careers can be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. Same goes for Banco, Le Orme and PFM...
You're totally missing the point of the genre. Of course all prog is eclectic but every single early Yes and Genesis is clearly symphonic prog dominated. Eclectic prog means NO genre is dominate. Eclectic is the PA way of having multliple genre tags with equal standing.
Which is completely inane.
-You're missing my point. And has it cought on anywhere else. No, of course not.
The reason it hasn't caught on elsewhere is because multiple genre tags are allowed elsewhere. This site came out before many of the more modern ones and has proved impossible to add the multiple tag feature without reinventing the entire site. What's so hard to understand about this? Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 13:59
My introduction to Nektar was the double lp 'Nektar sounds like this' which is basically them jamming live in the studio; it sounded to me (as a teenager) like a looser, spacier Deep purple or Uriah heep.. kind of what was called 'Stoner rock' (ugghh i hate that term) in the 90's/2000's. Then i heard 'Remember the future' and i heard a gentler, almost Caravan/ Fruupp sound.. i was never so keen on 'Tab in the Ocean' (but the word 'Tab' should kinda give a clue to their mindset..). They toured with Man, Hawkwind, Help Yourself etc so they fitted in that Space-rock/ Jam rock/ UK 'West coast' sound and the light-show with the ink slides over weird images definitely puts them in the very early Floyd/ Jefferson Airplane camp which i guess is Psych (certainly in terms of presentation). I also think they are very much like Eloy in their progression and evolution. I do understand those who have to put tags on these things and good for you for making whatever decision you have to make but it doesnt mean a bean to me what 'genre' they are in the long run
-------------
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 14:30
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Nektar started out as some sort of space/psychedelic version of progressive rock and you'll find elements of that on all their relevant albums. As long as it's only possible to select one genre for an entire discography, Psychedelic/Space Rock is nektar's natural place. Eclectic is an embarrassing Progarchives-invention that should be scrapped. It's not a genre but more of a descriptor. All progressive rock-bands needs to be somewhat eclectic.
All genres are descriptors! People get too hung up about this stuff. Eclectic simply means that no genre is the dominant one. I love the tag eclectic because it tells me that the artist at hand cannot easily be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. To me it makes more sense than RPI here.
Good for you.I still think Eclectic is silly as prog is eclectic by default. Practically every song on every 1970's album by Genesis and Yes is eclectic and neither of their careers can be pigeon-holed into any particular genre. Same goes for Banco, Le Orme and PFM...
You're totally missing the point of the genre. Of course all prog is eclectic but every single early Yes and Genesis is clearly symphonic prog dominated. Eclectic prog means NO genre is dominate. Eclectic is the PA way of having multliple genre tags with equal standing.
Which is completely inane.
-You're missing my point. And has it cought on anywhere else. No, of course not.
The reason it hasn't caught on elsewhere is because multiple genre tags are allowed elsewhere. This site came out before many of the more modern ones and has proved impossible to add the multiple tag feature without reinventing the entire site. What's so hard to understand about this? Seems pretty straight forward to me.
I understand everything. I just disagree with all your arguments - and still think the way I do.
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 13 2022 at 17:48
^ LOL. They're not arguments. Just trying to give you perspective in
how the databases work. These are facts not opinions. Whatever!
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: December 14 2022 at 00:09
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ LOL. They're not arguments. Just trying to give you perspective in
how the databases work. These are facts not opinions. Whatever!
What? I understand how it works. Your argument is basically "Eclectic is the PA way of having multliple genre tags with equal standing" - which doesn't change my mind regarding me finding the "invention" of Eclectic Prog-genre laughable. PA's approach to sub-genres has been flawed from the get go, and that's why "we" have to come up with these ridiculous new genres. What arguments do I actually need? "Eclectic prog means NO genre is dominate" - and you'vedecided that King Crimson, Van Der Graaf Generator and Gentle Giant fits that description moreso than Genesis. Looks completely random to me.
"The Eclectic category recognizes bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core".
-I'd say VdGG and Gentle Giant has a clearer referential core than... most profilc bands/artists on PA, really.
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: January 03 2023 at 11:37
siLLy puPPy wrote:
O666 wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
O666 wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
One of the downfalls of this site is that we can't multiple tag individual albums like RYM
The answer to your question is that Nektar were quite eclectic and were symph, space, funk, Kraut, hard rock as well as a jam band.
Often we evaluate on a single album's experience and make our decisions based on a particular album.
The band's debut "Journey To The Centre Of The Eye" was the most psychedelic of their canon and rightfully featured a predominant psychedelic first tagging.
Starting on the second album "A Tab In The Ocean," the psychedelic elements while still present were equally matched by hard rock and good old fashioned King Crimsonian prog.
I'd probably prefer an eclectic tag as well but ultimately we have better things to worry about than reassigning artists that are somewhat OK with where they sit.
I'm OK with Nektar in the psych category myself.
There are many artists on PA i would love to see reassigned but considering we are short staffed there are more important things to focus our attention on :)
Hi.
Ofcourse you (or anybody) cant do it (about multi tags) . I guess you mean , you focused on 2-3 albums and then reach to the agreements about genres. Its logical but I cant say "Remember the future" is a Psychedelic album.
About Nektar first 3 albums that you mentioned , in compare to Pink Floyd (as a near sample) , I convinced Pink Floyd is a Psychedelic Prog band and we know all of PF albums are not Psychedelic. In Nektar case , I didnt find exact Psyc elements like Ummagumma .
Perhaps you are limiting yourself to what YOU think psychedelic rock is. The term has a broader meaning than you would expect which is why heavier rock bands like Hawkwind are there. It's not just Pink Floyd.
According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct but this is fairly accruate): (just apply this to progressive rock and it makes perfect sense why Nektar is psychedelic here and not just heavy)
Psychedelic rock is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre" rel="nofollow - genre that is inspired, influenced, or representative of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelia" rel="nofollow - psychedelic culture, which is centered on perception-altering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen" rel="nofollow - hallucinogenic drugs. The music incorporated new electronic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_effect" rel="nofollow - sound effects and recording techniques, extended instrumental solos, and improvisation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-PrownNewquist48-3" rel="nofollow - [2] Many psychedelic groups differ in style, and the label is often applied spuriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
Originating in the mid-1960s among British and American
musicians, the sound of psychedelic rock invokes three core effects of
LSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization" rel="nofollow - depersonalization , dechronicization, and dynamization, all of which detach the user from everyday reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3] Musically, the effects may be represented via novelty studio tricks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music" rel="nofollow - electronic or non-Western instrumentation, disjunctive song structures, and extended instrumental segments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063–66-5" rel="nofollow - [4] Some of the earlier 1960s psychedelic rock musicians were based in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz , and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues , while others showcased an explicit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical" rel="nofollow - Indian classical influence called " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_rock" rel="nofollow - raga rock ".
In the 1960s, there existed two main variants of the genre: the more
whimsical, surrealist British psychedelia and the harder American West
Coast " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock ".
While "acid rock" is sometimes deployed interchangeably with the term
"psychedelic rock", it also refers more specifically to the heavier,
harder, and more extreme ends of the genre.
The peak years of psychedelic rock were between 1967 and 1969, with milestone events including the 1967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Love" rel="nofollow - Summer of Love and the 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_Festival" rel="nofollow - Woodstock Rock Festival , becoming an international musical movement associated with a widespread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s" rel="nofollow - counterculture
before beginning a decline as changing attitudes, the loss of some key
individuals, and a back-to-basics movement led surviving performers to
move into new musical areas. The genre bridged the transition from early
blues and folk-based rock to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rock" rel="nofollow - hard rock , and as a result contributed to the development of sub-genres such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music" rel="nofollow - heavy metal . Since the late 1970s it has been revived in various forms of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-psychedelia" rel="nofollow - neo-psychedelia .
Come on! Why you accused me to limited mind guy?! I just share my opinion about one of the most impressive band in Progressive history.
I dont have any problem with genres . I always try to find out new stuffs in music that I thought no one talked about it and try to learn more .
You refer me to bad source . I dont expected it from guys like you....
Well i'm on the PSIKE team so i guess i don't know what i'm talking about.
This is how psychedelic rock is defined. Either accept it or not.
It makes me no difference but i guarantee you that Nektar is not moving.
Who was talking about moving Nektar?! Are you Ok? I guess you are angry mate. Calm down .
I dont care about you are in which team and its not my business. I just talked about my opinion about a band. BUT I never let anybody to dictate his/her opinion to me.
I recommend you : if you cant talk and argue about music , dont write in this kind of topics. I am not here to fight against you....
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: January 03 2023 at 11:46
Saperlipopette! wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ LOL. They're not arguments. Just trying to give you perspective in
how the databases work. These are facts not opinions. Whatever!
What? I understand how it works. Your argument is basically "Eclectic is the PA way of having multliple genre tags with equal standing" - which doesn't change my mind regarding me finding the "invention" of Eclectic Prog-genre laughable. PA's approach to sub-genres has been flawed from the get go, and that's why "we" have to come up with these ridiculous new genres. What arguments do I actually need? "Eclectic prog means NO genre is dominate" - and you'vedecided that King Crimson, Van Der Graaf Generator and Gentle Giant fits that description moreso than Genesis. Looks completely random to me.
"The Eclectic category recognizes bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core".
-I'd say VdGG and Gentle Giant has a clearer referential core than... most profilc bands/artists on PA, really.
Absolutely agreed
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 03 2023 at 18:52
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct but this is fairly accurate): (just apply this to progressive rock and it makes perfect sense why Nektar is psychedelic here and not just heavy)
Psychedelic rock is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre" rel="nofollow - genre that is inspired, influenced, or representative of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelia" rel="nofollow - psychedelic culture, which is centered on perception-altering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen" rel="nofollow - hallucinogenic drugs. The music incorporated new electronic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_effect" rel="nofollow - sound effects and recording techniques, extended instrumental solos, and improvisation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-PrownNewquist48-3" rel="nofollow - [2] Many psychedelic groups differ in style, and the label is often applied spuriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
Originating in the mid-1960s among British and American
musicians, the sound of psychedelic rock invokes three core effects of
LSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization" rel="nofollow - depersonalization , dechronicization, and dynamization, all of which detach the user from everyday reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
...
Hi,
I'm not a great fan of posting material that is badly written, and really not quite well studied or possible. I really wanted to call that write up middle class garbage, because it is generalized to the point of destroying what the music is about.
First of all, the true "psychedelic" stuff had NO MEANING, beyond the experience itself ... thus saying that it is strictly about detaching yourself from this or that would be inaccurate. Why bother if yo are not curious and want to learn? Did you check/read your Aldous Huxley, Lilly, Monroe and the many other studies around the whole thing?
1. There is a lot of literature, music and art that is centered on perception altering anything, and they are not considered "psychedelic" ... Edgar Allan Poe!
2. Like there has never existed any art that has no "depersonalization, dechronicization and dynamization, that show a side of detachment from reality in general. This comment is ridiculous and uneducated!
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
Musically, the effects may be represented via novelty studio tricks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music" rel="nofollow - electronic or non-Western instrumentation, disjunctive song structures, and extended instrumental segments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063%E2%80%9366-5" rel="nofollow - [4]
...
Like it never happens elsewhere in everything else!
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
Some of the earlier 1960s psychedelic rock musicians were based in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz , and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues , while others showcased an explicit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical" rel="nofollow - Indian classical influence called " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_rock" rel="nofollow - raga rock ". In the 1960s, there existed two main variants of the genre: the more whimsical, surrealist British psychedelia and the harder American West Coast " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock ".
...
Another horrible generalization. Surrealism was not British ... it was FRENCH/SPANISH for a start, though English Theater is better known for it. Surrealism is very whimsical, on a personal level, not on a literary, or cultural level at all. This comment needs to be fit into a bit of literary/artistic history to make sense.
The varieties of the genre were similar in all places ... although the West Coast is given more "free form", mostly because the Fillmore was a haven for it, and other places were not as open to it all ... likewise there is also a West Coast /East Coast thing about the really early electronic music in America, and the differences there are very wide, but I think that in the pop/rock/jazz areas, it was a lot less about anything except the "experience".
The weird side of it is comparing it to a RAGA ... and if you study/read about "raga's", it is not quite the freeform exercise that we think, and some of it has structure, at least from the start. See Peter Michael Hamel's book about music. There are, really, not many rock ragas, although it is easy to put them side by side, because in many ways, they have some similarities, but I seriously doubt that a lot of the Fillmore "raga" was anywhere near the Hindu versions and designs, though it is possible. I think we use the term, very loosely, to make it seem better than it really is, however, for me, it takes away the originality of the rock version of the pieces. A lot of the free form stuff in the Fillmore, so much of which is STILL not released by a handful of folks, is still some of the very best free form rock music ever done, and a lot of European musicians loved listening to it, and you can hear some of the folks from AD2 even talk about LA and SF a lot, and in fact it was the biggest dream for the band ... that didn't happen!
I simply would like to see a lot of this stuff cleared up so that the music itself can stand up to the history of music and the arts ... as it is written it is nothing ... and in fact, all the descriptions show no originality or talent whatsoever ... and my friend, I'm afraid that even leaves out something like "krautrock" that was very psychedelic in its start, but developed into solid music and work as time went by ... the problem with the stuff in England and America is that it became so commercialized that it could not go anywhere or get better ... and instead got ripped and destroyed everywhere it went ... only to be remembered so fondly 50 years plus later!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: January 04 2023 at 05:57
moshkito wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
According to Wikipedia (which is not always correct but this is fairly accurate): (just apply this to progressive rock and it makes perfect sense why Nektar is psychedelic here and not just heavy)
Psychedelic rock is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre" rel="nofollow - genre that is inspired, influenced, or representative of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelia" rel="nofollow - psychedelic culture, which is centered on perception-altering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen" rel="nofollow - hallucinogenic drugs. The music incorporated new electronic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_effect" rel="nofollow - sound effects and recording techniques, extended instrumental solos, and improvisation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-PrownNewquist48-3" rel="nofollow - [2] Many psychedelic groups differ in style, and the label is often applied spuriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
Originating in the mid-1960s among British and American
musicians, the sound of psychedelic rock invokes three core effects of
LSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization" rel="nofollow - depersonalization , dechronicization, and dynamization, all of which detach the user from everyday reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063-4" rel="nofollow - [3]
...
Hi,
I'm not a great fan of posting material that is badly written, and really not quite well studied or possible. I really wanted to call that write up middle class garbage, because it is generalized to the point of destroying what the music is about.
First of all, the true "psychedelic" stuff had NO MEANING, beyond the experience itself ... thus saying that it is strictly about detaching yourself from this or that would be inaccurate. Why bother if yo are not curious and want to learn? Did you check/read your Aldous Huxley, Lilly, Monroe and the many other studies around the whole thing?
1. There is a lot of literature, music and art that is centered on perception altering anything, and they are not considered "psychedelic" ... Edgar Allan Poe!
2. Like there has never existed any art that has no "depersonalization, dechronicization and dynamization, that show a side of detachment from reality in general. This comment is ridiculous and uneducated!
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
Musically, the effects may be represented via novelty studio tricks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music" rel="nofollow - electronic or non-Western instrumentation, disjunctive song structures, and extended instrumental segments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHicks200063%E2%80%9366-5" rel="nofollow - [4]
...
Like it never happens elsewhere in everything else!
siLLy puPPy wrote:
...
Some of the earlier 1960s psychedelic rock musicians were based in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz , and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues , while others showcased an explicit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical" rel="nofollow - Indian classical influence called " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_rock" rel="nofollow - raga rock ". In the 1960s, there existed two main variants of the genre: the more whimsical, surrealist British psychedelia and the harder American West Coast " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock ".
...
Another horrible generalization. Surrealism was not British ... it was FRENCH/SPANISH for a start, though English Theater is better known for it. Surrealism is very whimsical, on a personal level, not on a literary, or cultural level at all. This comment needs to be fit into a bit of literary/artistic history to make sense.
The varieties of the genre were similar in all places ... although the West Coast is given more "free form", mostly because the Fillmore was a haven for it, and other places were not as open to it all ... likewise there is also a West Coast /East Coast thing about the really early electronic music in America, and the differences there are very wide, but I think that in the pop/rock/jazz areas, it was a lot less about anything except the "experience".
I simply would like to see a lot of this stuff cleared up so that the music itself can stand up to the history of music and the arts ... as it is written it is nothing ... and in fact, all the descriptions show no originality or talent whatsoever ... and my friend, I'm afraid that even leaves out something like "krautrock" that was very psychedelic in its start, but developed into solid music and work as time went by ... the problem with the stuff in England and America is that it became so commercialized that it could not go anywhere or get better ... and instead got ripped and destroyed everywhere it went ... only to be remembered so fondly 50 years plus later!
Hi ..
You explained everything very clear and as always I learned from you too many things. I really appreciated .
Posted By: Dapper~Blueberries
Date Posted: January 05 2023 at 02:04
I find that Nektar is like a mixture of various genres. You can definitely hear the symphonic Prog side but you can absolutely hear the space and psych rock stuff. They can also get a little jazzy from what I have heard from them. They are definitely an odd band of Prog
------------- D~B
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: January 17 2023 at 11:45
Dapper~Blueberries wrote:
I find that Nektar is like a mixture of various genres. You can definitely hear the symphonic Prog side but you can absolutely hear the space and psych rock stuff. They can also get a little jazzy from what I have heard from them. They are definitely an odd band of Prog
Hi. You completely right. Most of Progressive great bands play with different genres but they have their specific sound.
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 17 2023 at 11:49
Labels, 'shmabels!!! Who cares, Nektar is great music........If it was called DISCO would you not listen to it??
-------------
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: January 17 2023 at 11:53
Catcher10 wrote:
Labels, 'shmabels!!! Who cares, Nektar is great music........If it was called DISCO would you not listen to it??
Psychedelic Disco! That sounds like my kind of music.
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: January 17 2023 at 12:24
Catcher10 wrote:
Labels, 'shmabels!!! Who cares, Nektar is great music........If it was called DISCO would you not listen to it??
Perhaps , If I never listen their music and I heard they are a Disco band , I never try them. No one cant listen to all albums around the world.
But after I listen their music and people call them Disco band , Its not important for me. Genres not essential parameter of a band but they can help people to choose what they want to listen.
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Who cares, Nektar is great music........If it was called DISCO would you not listen to it?? 
