Will Brazil win for the 6th time or will Messi win Argentina their 3rd tournament or will a black horse like Denmark win it all? 

Feel free to discuss!

Fair enough.. I was anticipating this to being posted. Mind you, other World Cups were also held in countries where the policies of their governments are not agreed by everyone either........ I won't name them, because that'll start a political discussion here...

I don't want this thread to become like another one of those Progarchives political threads like the ones we have seen on Ukraine.....

Argentina looks like a great team this time around! Denmark are IMO the real dark horses. They have a complete team. Just not a great bench...

I've just noticed, you've beaten Scotland 2-1 in a friendly, and one of our centre backs, Mr Soyuncu, who has been out with a calf injury for nearly two months has mysteriously just put in a 90 minute shift for you tonight...  meanwhile one of our ex-players, Under, scored your winner... 

I'm actually pleased to have a break from the domestic football season as my team (Wolves) are not doing great. Also it's just another excuse to go down the pub for a drink. 

Putting my serious hat , England have a real chance. the squad is chocked full of experience and quality and Southgate has realised that only major tournaments matter. In a sense we have adopted a more German like mentality in that regards. The group is deceptively tricky though as England have never performed well against Wales and USA and struggle to overcome minows like Iran. However this is good time of year for England players who won't be exhausted from a long PL season as normally happens. Hopeful.

progaardvark wrote: Go Antarctica!!

Him & Platini should've gone to jail on more than one occasion for all the crap they've done in the last 30 years 

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I also can get excited about this WC, but nothing to do with Qatar (though that certainly doesn't help), neither does the time of the year). I've stopped believing a while ago that Belgium's golden generation will ever win anything.

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I'm a little surprised that everyone states South American teams as winner, when clearly in the last 5 cups, it's all been Europa.

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I've seen Argentina beating Italy 3-0 in the Cup of Champions and they were fantastic. Way better than any European national team I've seen in the last few years. Of course that's just one game so you never know, but if they play like this they could well make it.

Personally I'm torn - I love football and WCs are usually great for me, but giving it to Qatar has tainted it a lot for me and the Nov/Dec period is also worse for me workwise than the usual timing. So chances are I'll watch something here and there but not remotely as much as normally.

Looking at your squad, it's still incredibly strong, but you get the feeling it's now or never. We have four Belgians in our first team who have hauled us out of the mess we recently found ourselves in; three are of course in your squad. I hope Wout Faes gets a game; he was a snip for £15m and has been superb for us of late... seems to have boundless energy and gets his body behind just about everything.

Winners and seconds of the pools 

Jared wrote: Sean Trane wrote: I've stopped believing a while ago that Belgium's golden generation will ever win anything. Looking at your squad, it's still incredibly strong, but you get the feeling it's now or never. We have four Belgians in our first team who have hauled us out of the mess we recently found ourselves in; three are of course in your squad. I hope Wout Faes gets a game; he was a snip for £15m and has been superb for us of late... seems to have boundless energy and gets his body behind just about everything.

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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Brazil is the favorite according to many commentators, but also the computers. Argentina is usually the 2nd pick. I personall think Argentina has a real chance this time as they have a very good squad and they have looked very good... I'll be rooting for Argentina over Brazil if they meet!  It'd be great if Messi can finally win the World Cup! 

For many years, BRAZIL was my favorite. And it is really easy to see why ... from 1959 to 1965 in Brazil there were a hundred million little radios, and everyone had one and all the soccer games were on it. And when the WC was on, it was like the world came to an end, or at least a stop!

Nowadays, in America, no one cares, and the networks would rather show you the football games since they invested so many billions in it, and the other network would rather give you basketball since they also invested billions, and the WC, even with Americans in it? Fudge it ... the newspapers only do a small say nothing article, and too much of the American soccer media is just a bunch of names famed folks that do not even know how to talk a critical theory ... and instead say stuff that does not show a technical knowledge of the game, as you and I would expect. Reminds me of the early days of Mr. Madden, when he would easily tell you what the play was and which side it was going! You KNEW he was watching and paying attention. I don't see this nowadays!

Fast forward to November 2022, and honestly? I don't care who wins, and I'm not sure that we should have gone to Qatar, and I think I was against it right from the start, although I can see the idea of wanting to open up the game a bit more into areas that are not known as a soccer country. But, for me, the political and everything else state in many of these, is disgusting, not to mention the economical "control" that these folks exert when they can buy anything they want, and of course, we allow them to and will gladly take the almighty money and go home with our boats and cars! We're rich now and not have to work!

I would like to see some stuff happen to show a side of things that needs to be addressed ... the control of the large business entity over the game ... I would like to see Ronaldo score 5 goals and that would be the biggest finger to a company that is about money and control, and does not care about the players, anyway and has been that way for many years! I would like to see the "gods" favorites (Mbappe, Neymar for example) to not do anything great and take them down some. I would like to see an African team show up and all of a sudden be in the semifinal and cause a stirring around the world. Those teams have always been "close" but never have been able to advance a whole bunch and many of the teams (eventually) succumb to the worst of situations inside each and every one of those countries ... the "controls" of the teams are corrupt and horrible, and in some cases punish players badly! It's just as well that some folks can get away quickly and do not step back into their country anytime soon!

Japan, Korea and the likes from that side of the world need Roger Rabbit to help them jump higher so they can also play the aerial game a bit better, or just about all the European teams will eat them up time and again. But would love to see Son (Tottenham's) pull off a bunch of goals ... few people deserve it as much as he does.

Anyway ... I think I would like to see Messi pull off a big miracle ... and maybe, just maybe, they can go far into the tournament!

I think I will close my eyes to all the games ... no TV and there are no games in the Internet that are not gouging you ridiculous, so ... again, for the past 12 years ... no ability to watch any of the games ... and I'm fine with that ... I have enough writing and work to do as it is ... so ciao soccer ... 

Yes, lifelong Leicester fan.. come from the County and I used to go quite regularly at one time. Our owners also own Leuven, so there are strong links and I like to see you do well because of it. Tielemans is odd; he can be world class and then go very quiet. Castagne very solid and consistent, been a good servant for us. Faes is one to watch; gives 100% and is gaining confidence in the premiership all the time. The fans have really warmed to him. Praet went out on loan 2nd half of the last season, spends a lot of time warming the bench, partly because we have good cover in midfield; I think he wants out this year as he's not getting regular first team footie, which has probably led to him not being selected for you this time around. 

I get that in spades but just what if USA were to get to the latter stages , ie Semi- Finals? I feel the lack of interest may be linked to general acceptance that USA has no chance of winning, BUT and its a BIG BUT , what if they could have a chance of winning?? I mean their FIFA ranking is 16th and that's only 5 places behind Germany!

I did wonder how Hereford had 4 Belgium internationals 

My team (Wolves) got rid of Leander Dendoncker to Villa. Not sure he's done much their and like at Wolves permanently warming the bench. The player that could make the difference for Belgium is Leandro Trossard who is having a fantastic season at Brighton. Looks one of the best forwards around just at the minute. 

I see the USA getting past the group stages and maybe the round of 16, but an exit before or at the quarterfinals seems more likely.

But then Germany aren't that good these days either.

What do our Belgium experts think of Martinez?

He's probably OK but not the kind of quality manager you'd need to win a major trophy at the world stage, or is he?

Hi,

The whole thing is way too European centered and Latin America countries, do not, spend a whole lot of time in Europe, because of the expense ... remember that all Latin America moneys do not go very far in Europe except the American Dollar, and that kinda makes the point ... why am I taking a game in Madrid, when they will make a million, and by the time I come home I have less than 50K to distribute between the players and the Federation? 

So some players take the money, but sadly, this has never really helped a whole lot of the national teams ... 

The FIFA rankings need to change. To be ranked an European team needs to do 4 teams from Latin America, and 4 from Asia and 4 from Africa, and the rest from Europe ... so to speak ... and the same thing for ALL teams in all other places on the face of the earth. The European teams, rarely come here to America as well, and they know that it is not a place where they are guaranteed a win and some free money! Some of the bigger teams like to come over and "tour", and they bring home a little bacon, but not as much as they can from European games! The costs for such a tour are difficult ... and we should know that because NOTHING HAS HURT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC MORE IN AMERICA than that! Too many foreign bands have lost money travelling around and only playing the bar circuit for  a small fee that might, just might get you enough gas on the bus to take you from Portland to SF or even LA!  The rock media here is the problem with really bad ability to share the issues and help each other more so more folks will show up at shows ... but why would I spend $250 dollars to see France, England or Spain and sit a hundred miles away and not be able to see a whole lot except I can hear the screams and the shouts and the applauses ... and the boos!

This is very awkward, plus a huge loss of sales for Budweiser as they have shipped millions of cans of beer to Qatar beforehand...

Belgium has suffered many foreign coaches because of the eternal French/Flemish dispute and the flemish separatist issue (at one point, they "nationalists" even wanted to hurt the national team, because it was an obstacle to their objective). All of the more successdfull coaches were French-mainly  speakers (Thys, Goethals, Waseige, Wilmots) so the solution often came to find someone foreign (and often Dutch, to please the Flemish). During the 2002/2012 drought (no EC/WC qualification at all), only Flemish or Dutch coaches were named and managed poor results. Until Wilmots (he was the heart of the last good team as a player in Japan/Korea) became the coach and managed two qualifs in a row (2012, I think) and a great/bright future for the NT.

 In 2014, a royal Blvd to the final opened in the EC (all the biggies in their half of the tournament had been eliminated), and they stumbled on Wales  - which provided the chance for many frustrated flemish critics to say it was his fault. Goalkeeper Courtois (flemish despite his French name), became the main opponent claiming they lacked a strategist coach (which was probably half-right), so they fired Wilmots  in full ascenscion of the team.

Martinez benefitted of all the work of his predecessor Marc Wimots, who had given the chance to all that golden generation and made them a bunch of buddies... RM is not a bad coach (quite the contrary) but never really managed to go the next step: a 3rd place in Russia was Belgium's best showing ever, but a failed Nation League final against Schweiz (they were ahead 2-0 before losing 2-5) is his biggest failure.

I believe Martinez speaks good enough French but no Dutch so he only speaks English to the medias and on the job/field.

I don't undertstand the Belgian federation trying to sign him up for another 4 years before Qatar, though. Probably thinking they could renew the contract at a lesser price than if they are in the final 4 again - highly unlikely. And that seems so stupid to sign him up again, if you have to fire him a few weeks later (costing much money), in case they don't qualify for the last 16.

TBH, if we can find a good coach available (everybody is eyeing at Preudhomme), it's time for a change. He's very popular in Flanders, but he's French-speaking bilingual and this would only add salt on the wound that won't heal.

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Hi,

I think those rankings are too high, or too nice. Both Argentina and Brazil did not play a whole lot of European teams to get that ranking, and most of it has come off their ability to make it to the WC so well with so many games. 

I think both teams would have some serious issues against, Spain, Italy, Croatia and the tougher defense teams in Europe, although the one thing that is widely known is that almost all the players in Argentina and Brazil are well known in europe ... the same can not be said in reverse.

Many Argentinian and Brazilian players knows the players from those European teams very well... As they play in the same leagues as they do... In fact, some are teammates!

Boycott

Divestment

Sanctions

But I'm sure you horse jockeys are on that since you would never treat human rights like a buffet.

"Everyone's a liberal until it costs them a quarter"

-Mort Sahl

I'll watch once the single-elimination starts. I know the US will go nowhere. I guess I prefer The Netherlands, which is like a second home outside the US, but mostly because they have never won.

The Qatar team looked way out of depth against a disciplined Ecuadorian side, but they still did not concede more than 2 goals. They will be not so lucky against Netherlands and Senegal.

As for tomorrow, looking forward to the US Wales match, but also the Senegal Netherlands match. (Sorry England fans, but your match is too early for me!)

Ouf, that's quite a loaded statement. As long as Israel is not "legitimizing" (i.e. recognizing) Palestinian territories, BDS is a normal reaction towards an occupying/suffocating entity.

Someone please explain how Maguire being wrestled to the ground with both arms is not a penalty but Stones having one arm across is. 

The Netherlands and Senegal match was really good. Sucks for Senegal though. They played well, but still lost...

This is the fundamental problem with VAR, a lack of consistency.

Hi,

And the worst? The USA did its usual Berhalter game that does not provide results! And to a team that had not had a win in the last 5 games! 

I get it ... the USA is building things up! But this is the WC ... it is time now to show up or go home. I am not sure that 4 points (Win against Iran hopefully if we don't invent a high line that screws up! Plus the Wales point) is going to help. The next round the team gets the team that toped a group somewhere, and that is an immediate exit for the USA team that simply does not have the ability, or desire, to do better than it can. I think that there is "too much" tactics and not enough playing, to the point where the players do not have enough freedom to develop forward ... we're too slow moving forward and WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A DEFENSE THAT IS NOT SET! Guess what all the great players do? They burn defenses that are not set, and jump on the moments that things open up and it is likely too late to close down the opening! 

So right now it looks like England 6 or 7 points, depending on which game they can afford to give away ... and I think that their Wales game is likely the one to give away if England beats the USA. Giving the game away with Wales should give England 7 points, Wales 5 and the USA 4 ... ciao baby ... go home early and sulk the ability that you don't have, and don't want to learn and improve from.

My concern is that the USA has not played enough European teams in Europe to GET TOUGH and play better. You can even look at Ecuador, though their opening game was easy when you consider that to get the WC they played Brazil twice, Argentina twice and Uruguay twice ... and if that doesn't make you tougher, I am not sure that anything else will either.

Of the 6 teams, I guess England looked the best, but their defense allowing 2 is an issue, which makes the Netherlands game more valuable all around.

Looks interesting ... let's see about tomorrow, now, so we all can cry some more.

And the politics? Please leave them at home for a few days ... this is about something else that we should be celebrating, not bringing down with .... whatever! And who the fudge needs beer to enjoy a game! I just drink water anyway! So FIFA has to give back the hundreds of millions for the no sales and profits for Budweiser! No tears for that one!

I think that we might see some more of these incredible scores that we would think were impossible ahead of time. 

The thing we forget is how the game, these days, is coached with so much visual content, so you can determine fast enough what so many teams like to do ... and Argentina was not smart enough to notice that Saudi Arabia had a beam on their offside and they got stopped each and every time ... meaning that Argentina, forgot they had enough players to do better than just keep on trying offside shanks!

I'm not sure that is a sign of strong/flexible coaching that can see the game fast enough and help the players off set that ability. If you do not adjust, and it looks like Argentina didn't, they deserve to lose. There is only one team that doesn't know how to use modern facilities to learn how to play the game better and it is because they think that the word about "play" comes from God ... not what a laptop or notebook screen can show you!

This is one of the biggest issues with the American team ... not be able to make good enough adjustments, because the coach is not smart enough to go play in Europe more games so he can learn more and get better acquainted with teams that are SMARTER and use their smarts really well. The chances of the USA to move forward? I think they won't make it ... I doubt that the Americans can beat England. More like 3-1 England, I would imagine unless a hand of God ends up changing that score to 2-2 ... I think that 5 points might make it through, but 4 won't.

The US can play with England. I truly believe that a draw or even a win is possible against England.

This can explain a few things

The invicible armada trounced the opposition.

Belgium didn't deserve to win. Canada was clearly the better team in the first half.

Two penalties should have been given! Arch above me is right. Canada should have won this game.

The Zimbawe referee has been caught for corruption a few years ago (why was he chosen), but I've seen much worse

Archisorcerus wrote: The first half of the Belgium vs. Canada match was very fun. Both tried to score really enthusiastically which made it a pleasure for the viewers. The second half was a bit of a mixed bag. I think Canada were very zealous, but their lack of experience in the WC tournaments evinced itself. Oh, the referee of that/this match was really bad. He made at least 3 critical mistakes. Among these, I believe 2 penalty kicks of Canada were not given. Neither was THAT undisputble, but they were still fouls, I think. In one of them, a Belgian defender tripped a Canadian "offender" up. And in the other, a Belgian defender put his arms in front of himself and the ball came there. That could sometimes be done to protect your face; but not your torso. It was a deliberate move; the defender literally used his arms to "confront" the ball, and I believe it was a penalty position. Correct me if my not-so-great knowledge of such rules is wrong on this one. As for the offside flag that Nogbad mentioned, I figure I missed that one. I can't remember, really.

Diagree about this issue... it was clearly a protection move (intentional indeed), but the arm movement did not increase the player's surface of blockage - it actually diminished it. Not to mention that it was natural instinct to protect his face, as it was not clear that the ball wasn't heading directly at it.

TBH, I hate these new rules obligeing defenders playing with their arms behind their backs, as to not be called for accidental hand contact. FTM, for the stopped PK (rightly called), the yellow card was unjustly given to Carrasco, because his arms were extended well before the ball got to him, so ball contact wasn't intentional. PK, yes but YC no. 

I don't remember the off-side leading to a goal that would've been annuled.

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Other than that , though I'm not complaing, the systematic long extra times are making these matches 100 minutes. This is much more notceable at the end of the game than at the halftime (first period) 

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Re England v Iran , the penalty decision against England by the letter of the law was correct but when you look at the amount of technical fouls in the penalty area that happen during any average football match the number of penalties could be well off the scale. I wonder if the decision would have been given if it had really mattered?!

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Is it just me or did it look like Neuer flinch out of the way on Japan's 2nd goal?

He certainly has something to answer about that.

In my view that penalty was correct (if something is correct by the letter of the law, it is correct full stop - note though that the letter of the law in football, maybe necessarily so, leaves some space for interpretation). But an Iran defender got away with something at least as bad, and that wasn't correct.

WOW

Iran just beat Wales ... and this does not look good for the USA. They have scored 4 goals in 2 games ... the USA in one game, just 1 goal, and I doubt they can plug 3 into England!

Total stunner, but it looks like Queiroz had the right attitude and game plan to take on a team like Wales. Remember this guy took Brazil to the WC before. He knows what he is doing! And I don't think that the USA can best that coach, specially when Iran will need the point, or two and the USA will be scrambling to just get another point, before they go home!