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EXTREMEEE!!!!! metal vocals

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129276
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 18:27
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Topic: EXTREMEEE!!!!! metal vocals
Posted By: Hrychu
Subject: EXTREMEEE!!!!! metal vocals
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 02:11
I hate them. Growled/screamed/extreme vocals are the reason I can't stand prog metal. :( Does anybody feel the same?
EDIT:
Here's one of the many examples:


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Replies:
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 02:21
Once upon a time, I did. Hated them with as much passion as you appear to. But I didn’t hate them so much for how horrid and ugly they sounded to me ears, so much as because they were the one hurdle I couldn’t seem to get over to listen to music I was sure I would enjoy.

The amount of times I would be absolutely loving some music, and thinking “oh yeah, this is for me”, only to be ruined as soon as the vocalist opened his mouth seemed to be unreal. I hated the vocals for ruining the music for me. They were a barrier, that seemed to deny me entry into a world I could tell was otherwise one I would most likely enjoy,

It took me years to get over my aversion to harsh vocals. I eventually managed to build up a tolerance to them. I still didn’t like them (AT ALL!!!), but I could manage to listen past them, in able to enjoy the music. Once I had managed this, a whole new world opened up to me. There were some bands that I still couldn’t listen to, because not all harsh vocals are alike. Some are far harsher than others, and many were still beyond my tolerance level. I also couldn’t listen to any bands that utilised only harsh vocals at this time. I needed to have a mix of clean and harsh (the greater the ratio of the former to the latter, the better).

But over time, my tolerance seemed to almost naturally grow. There are still bands I can’t listen to, and some vocals I can’t deal with, but I can listen to a lot. And in some cases (a minority, it is true), I actually not only tolerate the vocals, but enjoy them! 😱 I still prefer to have some clean vocals, but I no longer be require them, and I do own and enjoy some albums that have solely harsh vocals.

What it comes down to me, always, is the music. If the music is good enough, I can hear last the vocals. And, to be fair, this is something I have always done (and in some cases HAD to do). I like Yes, but can’t stand Jon Anderson’s vocals. I like Smashing Pumpkins, but can’t stand Billy Corgan’s vocals. For a lot of people, those vocals are one of the main drawcards. For me, they are no different in many ways to harsh vocals - a hurdle that I need to get over to enjoy the music.



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Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 03:21
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Growled/screamed/extreme vocals are the reason I can't stand prog metal.

This is like saying, "I hate horror movies because of the gore". You know that there are loads of horror movies without gore, right?

It is better to say, "I can't stand prog metal with extreme vocals". I would largely agree with that. I find the majority of the extreme vocals in prog either outplaced or disturbing.

But a creative artist with a genuine intuition, that means a real artist who knows what would suit where, can incorporate virtually anything into his/her music, including the extreme vocals.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 05:53
Just what we need, a hate thread.

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Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 06:07
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Growled/screamed/extreme vocals are the reason I can't stand prog metal.

This is like saying, "I hate horror movies because of the gore". You know that there are loads of horror movies without gore, right?

It is better to say, "I can't stand prog metal with extreme vocals". I would largely agree with that. I find the majority of the extreme vocals in prog either outplaced or disturbing.

But a creative artist with a genuine intuition, that means a real artist who knows what would suit where, can incorporate virtually anything into his/her music, including the extreme vocals.

This is absolutely true. I focussed on harsh vocals in my last post, because that was clearly the complaint of the OP. But there is absolutely far more prog metal WITHOUT harsh vocals, than with. So if someone is suggesting that they don’t like prog metal because of the harsh vocals, it very much comes across as that someone not even having any real idea of what prog metal actually encompasses, and probably has listened to very little, if any.

I don’t think everyone needs to be open-minded, and I don’t think everyone needs to like everything, or attempt to give something a second go (or third, or…) after being initially put off. If someone doesn’t like harsh vocals, so be it. I can definitely understand that, having once been put off completely by them, no matter how much I might like the music. And if someone doesn’t like the music either, then there is even less reason to try and appreciate the music.

The OP is hardly alone in not liking harsh vocals. I dare say the majority of forum users probably don’t. Nor is the OP alone in not liking prog metal (or making a judgement of it, without actually listening to much of it, or any). But let’s hope this doesn’t turn into a crushingly negative hate fest. It is possible to have a constructive discussion about harsh vocals. It’s even possible to express a critical opinion of then, and remain constructive. Unfortunately, the tone of the OP does suggest that they are unlikely to be willing to be anything other than negative. 🤷🏻‍♂️



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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 06:07
Growls are not my pint of ale. They make me laugh and I lose interest. Shame because the music can be fierce.


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 06:10
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Growls are not my pint of ale. They make me laugh and I lose interest. Shame because the music can be fierce.
They used to make make me laugh, or make me feel sick in the stomach. I honesty used to find some harsh vocals vomit-inducing. And, yeah, it was a shame, because the music could be fierce.

But, harsh vocals are never going to be everyone’s pint of ale. Luckily we can all sit in a pub and chat, and sup on whatever pint we do enjoy. Vive la difference! 🍻 



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Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 06:38
So don't listen to these bands I like very much: Opeth, Agalloch, Amorphis, Borknagar, Enslaved, Orphaned Land and Subterranean Masquerade ! Wink

But I think they only represent 10 % of the progressive metal scene. So you can listen to Threshold, Shadow Gallery, Vanden Plas, ...


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 07:18
Some extreme vocals I like, some I don't. I just listen to the ones that work for me. 


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 07:22
ClapClapClapClap


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Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 17:02
Originally posted by PhideauxFan PhideauxFan wrote:

So don't listen to these bands I like very much: Opeth, Agalloch, Amorphis, Borknagar, Enslaved, Orphaned Land and Subterranean Masquerade ! Wink

But I think they only represent 10 % of the progressive metal scene. So you can listen to Threshold, Shadow Gallery, Vanden Plas, ...

Love those bands, specially Agalloch, Enslaved. Borknagar and Opeth, i{ll add two more bands, Ulver (their first 3 albums) and In The Woods...


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 17:18
I love them. In fact the more extreme the better.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 17:35
I can listen as a contrast to other things going on. Difficult when it's wall to wall through an entire song. Though as a novelty, it can be amusing. Of which, this was on America's Got Talent last week.



They claim to be the world's only full metal choir, but there had to be others, no?


Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 17:50
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I hate them. Growled/screamed/extreme vocals are the reason I can't stand prog metal. :( Does anybody feel the same?

Those vocalists certainly seem like they are very upset about something, I just can't quite make out what.


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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas


Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: July 05 2022 at 19:28
of what i heard the music was stellar but the growling ruined it for me.. Recently i came across this, and i really dig it.. not all growling but mixed in nicely.




Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 01:09
Originally posted by Progmind Progmind wrote:

Originally posted by PhideauxFan PhideauxFan wrote:

So don't listen to these bands I like very much: Opeth, Agalloch, Amorphis, Borknagar, Enslaved, Orphaned Land and Subterranean Masquerade ! Wink

But I think they only represent 10 % of the progressive metal scene. So you can listen to Threshold, Shadow Gallery, Vanden Plas, ...

Love those bands, specially Agalloch, Enslaved. Borknagar and Opeth, i{ll add two more bands, Ulver (their first 3 albums) and In The Woods...
I had an album of In The Woods, and I've got a CD by Ulver. Very good ! Smile


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 07:07

ClapClapClapClap


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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 12:36
I get a chuckle any time someone tries to tell me how difficult it is to make your voice do that.

I usually respond with a growling "No it's not"

I don't mind little bits of growling, but constant throat-vomit sounds turn me off.
I especially don't like it when I'm listening in my car, with the windows open.  It's embarrassing when someone hearts me go by.


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Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: July 06 2022 at 17:39
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

I get a chuckle any time someone tries to tell me how difficult it is to make your voice do that.

I usually respond with a growling "No it's not"

I don't mind little bits of growling, but constant throat-vomit sounds turn me off.
I especially don't like it when I'm listening in my car, with the windows open.  It's embarrassing when someone hearts me go by.

Do you mean like this:





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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas


Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 08:16
I can't stand this either. It's too white-noise-y to me. Like, I can stand some weird or noisy stuff, but this has no sense of harmony or relation to the rest of the music anymore. It'd be the same to me as putting the sound of a vacuum cleaner over the music instead of a vocalist.

It's interesting though, my mom listens to this kind of stuff, with growling vocals and blast beats (another thing I find is just white noise that distracts from the music), but she finds stuff like Zappa or ELP noise and 'nervous'. Go figure.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:08
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:


It's interesting though, my mom listens to this kind of stuff, with growling vocals and blast beats (another thing I find is just white noise that distracts from the music), but she finds stuff like Zappa or ELP noise and 'nervous'. Go figure.
Your Mom sounds pretty cool. Does she know about this site? Smile

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Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 15:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Your Mom sounds pretty cool. Does she know about this site? Smile
I doubt it...she's not really into prog. She really only listens to types of screamy metal I don't even know the genre names of.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 07 2022 at 16:10
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Your Mom sounds pretty cool. Does she know about this site? Smile

I doubt it...she's not really into prog. She really only listens to types of screamy metal I don't even know the genre names of.
Sounds like she's into our prog sub genre "Technical/Extreme metal".

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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 02:24
I have no problem with extreme vocals, but sometimes when they are either performed in a generic fashion, or just don´t suit the instrumental part of the music, I´m put off...but that goes for regular clean singing too. So it all depends on the singer.

Personally some of my favorite extreme metal singers are those who are able to articulate every word while delivering a face melting growl. If they add a spoonful of aggression, I´m usually all in.


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Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 07:35
"All extremists should be shot". 

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 08:00
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

"All extremists should be shot". 


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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 21:55
First, there are many prog metal bands that don't use extreme vocals... actually, the ones I would consider the most representative ones don't (except for Opeth). If you do like the metal element and combined with prog, but without harsh vocals, then you might check out (if you haven't yet) Dream Theater, Ayreon, Pain of Salvation, Riverside, and Haken. I myself am not a fan of harsh vocals either, though I have come to tolerate them a bit better with time. First, well, before getting into metal, prog metal... or even prog as such, I guess, I came to know Pink Floyd and the song Careful with that Axe, Eugene... first I though WTF... but soon I came to love it... But well, now for metal and harsh vocals... I guess the first I tried to know were Opeth (besides many symphonic metal bands with harsh vocals that my wife liked), mostly looking for the songs they had without harsh vocals... and most of the songs I like from them are those ones; there is only one with harsh vocals that I came to like, "The Drapery Falls", live version from Lamentations... though strange enough, it has become my favourite song from them. Then, looking for some more prog metal I came to know Devin Townsend. Now, I have come to tolerate harsh vocals on a very few songs that I like so much that I decided to just enjoy them despite those vocals (like "The Drapery Falls" that I already mentioned), but Devin Townsend is the only artist that has made me actually enjoy his harsh vocals (in some cases)... I don't know, it's just something in the way he uses them that works so well, like he really gives meaning to the grunting and the growling and the screaming.
Now, the selected songs that I do like that feature grunting are: Forever, by Macbeth; Cry for the Moon, by Epica (though there seems to be another one from their latest album that I might add to the list); The Final Victory, by Haggard; Alma Mater, by Moonspell; Seclusion, by Penumbra; Ecstatic, by Trail of Tears; Star-crossed, by Sirenia. I got to know all of these because my wife had all this albums, and I decided to give them a try, otherwise I might have never know this music. Also The Drapery Falls from Opeth, and the songs that make up an epic song on Wilderun's album Sleep at the Edge of the Earth. And from Devin Townsend the ones I have liked best are "Earth Day" and "Planet Smasher", as well as Loser from Ayreon, in which he is a guest singer.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 08 2022 at 21:57
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:


It's interesting though, my mom listens to this kind of stuff, with growling vocals and blast beats (another thing I find is just white noise that distracts from the music), but she finds stuff like Zappa or ELP noise and 'nervous'. Go figure.
Your Mom sounds pretty cool. Does she know about this site? Smile


My Wife also likes some Metal with extreme vocals (mostly symphonic metal), and when she heard some Van Der Graaf Generator that I got she really hated his vocals... specially on songs like The Sleepwalkers and La Rossa (which I think actually border grunting).


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 09 2022 at 03:57
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:


It's interesting though, my mom listens to this kind of stuff, with growling vocals and blast beats (another thing I find is just white noise that distracts from the music), but she finds stuff like Zappa or ELP noise and 'nervous'. Go figure.
Your Mom sounds pretty cool. Does she know about this site? Smile


My Wife also likes some Metal with extreme vocals (mostly symphonic metal), and when she heard some Van Der Graaf Generator that I got she really hated his vocals... specially on songs like The Sleepwalkers and La Rossa (which I think actually border grunting).
VDGG also has the Peter Hammill factor that's takes hard to listen to vocals to a whole other plateau. LOL  Nice to see you Omar. Hope all's well.

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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 09 2022 at 04:15
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

"All extremists should be shot". 

Wouldn't you say that was a little... extreme?

Care to stand against that wall sir?

Big smile 


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 09 2022 at 20:23
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:


It's interesting though, my mom listens to this kind of stuff, with growling vocals and blast beats (another thing I find is just white noise that distracts from the music), but she finds stuff like Zappa or ELP noise and 'nervous'. Go figure.
Your Mom sounds pretty cool. Does she know about this site? Smile


My Wife also likes some Metal with extreme vocals (mostly symphonic metal), and when she heard some Van Der Graaf Generator that I got she really hated his vocals... specially on songs like The Sleepwalkers and La Rossa (which I think actually border grunting).
VDGG also has the Peter Hammill factor that's takes hard to listen to vocals to a whole other plateau. LOL  Nice to see you Omar. Hope all's well.


Yes I know, but if you like extreme vocals you would think Peter Hamill wouldn't be so bad.



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