Cylli Kat (0fficial) wrote: My apologies if this topic has been touched on prior to this... I was just listening to Fates Warning's Perfect Symmetry and it struck me how really solid the playing of Joe DiBiase is.

"Monument" alone elevates Joe DiBiase above the run-of-the-mill. Great bass player. Perfect for Fates.

Indeed. He does not get enough cred.

Don't worry, Greg Lake was an excellent bassist. I rate John Wetton above him, but both were excellent bassists whose vocals and songs got more attention.

Fantastic, Doug!!  Right on the money, he was amazing (I can say that as I saw them live). 

I'd suggest a couple:

a)  Mike Howlett, of Gong - check out his work on Gong's "You" LP 

b)  Lothar Meid, of Amon Duul II - great work on "Wolf City" and others, RIP! 

Thanks so much, Chuck!  How lucky you were to have seen Helmut live.

         That Gong bassist is new to me, will check him out; Lothar Meid was great in AD 2 and also the debut album of Klaus Doldinger's Passport! 

Good call, brilliant bass player. 

Mick Karn (Japan and solo)

John Jowitt (Arena, IQ, Drifting Sun, Rain)

Lee Pomeroy (Wakeman, Hackett and sessions galore)

Paul Webb (Talk Talk)

Ralphe Armstrong (Ponty, sessions) 

Percy Jones (Brand X, sessions)

Fabio Zuffanti (Finisterre, La Maschera di Cera) 

I have many more....

Percy Jones is not underrated. One can make a case for any of the others.

I noticed "new bassist" John Jowitt immediately when I first heard IQ's Ever. Glad I was able to see Arena and see the Jowster get his bass on. 

John Glasscock - Carmen/Jethro Tull

Ray Shulman - Gentle Giant

Justin Chancellor - Tool

Hi,

Mike was always on the money and he could play and not worry about being up front or behind. He was really tight and careful and detailed and it showed many times. His work on some of the live albums is just as good, and we also did not see that he played with Pip, Pierre and then the S2S kid ... three very different drummers, and his playing still fit ... did we miss a beat? Never.

Lothar Meid is one of the great ones, that is ignored. His work on the MM Soundtrack is even better and shows some patience and touch that is not a part of most bass players ... it's about the silence and when not to play and still have a touch left to help propel the music forwards.

I seriously doubt that these two will get any credit. However there are/were several very nice choices, though I do not think they are necessarily the best. John G. Perry did an outstanding job with Caravan for one album and quit the bass it seems. Helmut Hattler is very special but I don't think that most folks here listen to Kraan, Guru Guru (in a couple of albums), and other bits here and there. The live Kraan albums are a good start for what this guy can do! 

I was thinking that Hugh Hopper should also be mentioned in this group.

Honorable mention ... thx to DE for putting John Glascock on this list. His work in Carmen was out of this world, and I'm not sure that he shined as much on JT albums as he did on Carmen, but maybe this was because he was not to be as close to the front as he was in Carmen.

Last addon. Dave Pegg of Fairport Convention and with Richard Thompson on a couple of live albums ... outstanding!

Thanks, M, great comments!  Also, thanks for Dave Pegg and Rich Thompson!  You listen!  

I have a soft-spot for self-taught bassists....Bob Fripp taught Boz Burrell how to play the instrument, and when he joined Bad Company, he brought the sweet sound of fretless bass to the AM radio waves!  

Geoffrey Hammond-Hammond of Jethro Tull was another "project" bassist, taught to play by Ian Anderson.  His work on Tull's albums was sublime, and he was nearly as flamboyant onstage as Ian!!  Great thread!!

Underrated is maybe not the best terminology for this type of thing. Perhaps under appreciated or deserving more attention would be more apt? Anyways, let's not split hairs:

Lee Jackson (the Nice and Refugee)

Jim Rodford (Argent)

Jan Patrick Djivas (PFM)

Petr Vink (Finch)

Holger Czukay (Can)

Victor Wooten (Bela Fleck & the Flecktones)

Colin Hodgkinson (Back Door)

John Deacon (Queen)

Simon Gallup (the Cure)

Andy Rourke (the Smiths)

Les Pattinson (Echo & the Bunnymen)

Barry Adamson (Magazine, Bad Seeds and others)

Steve Hanley (the Fall)

Geezer Butler (Black Sabbath)

Steve Severin (Siouxsie & the Banshees)

Jean-Jacques Burnel (the Stranglers)

Fred Smith (Television)

Bruce Thomas (Elvis Costello & the Attractions)

Colin Moulding (XTC)

Bruce Moreland (Wall of Voodoo)

Hi,

I'm not sure it was that these folks were taught by Bob or Ian ... more than likely those folks wanted a very specific touch of the bass on this or that passage which helped make the piece more attractive. The majority of bass players are too concerned with beat and the drum, than they are with the whole of the music in front of them, so a bass player being asked/told to do this or that is not out of the question (see note below) ... it only means that one person is much more attuned to what their music is about, which another player would not be, thus being asked/told to do this bit or that bit this or that way, is far out. But the "talent" inherent in the player himself/herself is the issue, and Boz went on to do even better work on the fretless which is a credit to his ability. Geoffrey had become one of the folks that added the "personality" to JT, which Ian slowly took out and replaced as his own vision and take on things, although it seems that Geoffrey left on his own. John G was a very nice substitution, but I think he lost the ability to be out front and drive the music, since Ian was the driver not any other musician! That's when I fell out of JT ... I thought the touch of "band" was gone. Still fine and really well done, but not half as valuable or important as the older stuff that we all love and still talk about. But that's not to say that JT albums were not good at all from then on. 

I think there is a lot more to the bass playing than we think about ... the ones that stand out are not just about the beat and staying with the drummer ... when you hear Dave Pegg with Richard Thompson in those live albums (specially Live More/Less), you will find that Dave is magnificent at adding to the space that Richard intentionally leaves open when taking his time on the piece or notes! Those versions, of "Night Comes In" and "Calvary Cross" still are the best I have ever heard, and I think that Dave Pegg is the difference.

Note: One of the worst bass lessons of all, is when a teacher tells you that you are rhythm, and have to play with the drums ... meaning that you learn your instrument without learning to hear and pay better attention to the rest of the music. In rock music, I suppose the simplest thing to say is stay on the drummer, but by the time you get to jazz and more free form music, staying with the drummer, means you can't play!

Your historical revisionism is laughable and dead wrong. Jeffrey Hammond left Tull on his own accord to continue his painting career (which was always his first concern, and he has been quite successful as an artist). Jeffrey even tried to rejoin the band in the late 80s,  "but the bass player declared himself unable to play the rather difficult music of Jethro Tull and decided to give up."

Actually, Ian and Jeffrey were great old school friends, and Ian included Jeffrey in several songs: "A song for Jeffrey", Jeffrey Goes to Leicester Square" and "For Michael Collins, Jeffrey and Me".

moshkito wrote: John G was a very nice substitution, but he lost the ability to be out front and drive the music, since Ian was the driver not any other musician! That's when I fell out of JT ... I thought the touch of "band" was gone, and that Ian's version of things was not as strong or complete. Still fine and really well done, but not half as valuable or important as the older stuff that we all love and still talk about.

I would suggest that neither Jeffrey Hammond nor Glenn Cornick, both fine bass players, had the chops to play the bass lines found in Songs from the Wood or Heavy Horses. I would suggest further that the change you mention did not occur until after Stormwatch, when Ian fired John Evan, David (Dee) Palmer and Barriemore Barlow. They became more Ian-centric after that point and lost the magic.

moshkito wrote: I think there is a lot more to the bass playing than we think about ... the ones that stand out are not just about the beat and staying with the drummer ... when you hear Dave Pegg with Richard Thompson in those live albums (specially Live More/Less), you will find that Dave is magnificent at adding to the space that Richard intentionally leaves open when taking his time on the piece or notes! Those versions, of "Night Comes In" and "Calvary Cross" still are the best I have ever heard, and I think that Dave Pegg is the difference.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

I agree with both points re: bassists and post-Stormwatch Tull. I've long maintained the late John Glascock, who was taken far too soon, was the best bassist Tull ever had. I shudder when I wonder what all the Broadsword songs would sound like with his basslines.

Some of these bassists will never get the attention they arguably deserve because some of these bands are no longer on the radar. You also have two who were in very high-profile bands that will never fall off the radar.

Vic Wooten is regarded by jazz/fusion aficionados as one of the best.

Nice to see a mention for Colin Hodgkinson! He's really good.

Hi,

Updated and cleaned up per your comments. I'm not afraid to be wrong and definitely not stupid enough to know when to correct things. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will try to fix things the best I can, and did here!

that was a fantastic band generally. I've probably listened to them as much as anyone in the last 12 months or so. Bill Nelson is one of the great rock talents , just too good to be pigeon holed!

Another guy who surely deserves a mention is Gregory Spawton (Big Big Train). Maybe not that 'showy' but rock solid as it comes and he plays with NDV so he must be good!

https://www.greatbritishlife.co.uk/people/jethro-tull-guitarist-jeffrey-hammond-7012490" rel="nofollow - https://www.greatbritishlife.co.uk/people/jethro-tull-guitarist-jeffrey-hammond-7012490

Pignatelli is a monster , one of my all-time faves . 

We are brothers-in-arms! 

Yes!! I can't believe I forgot to mention KPM. Eloy would not be the same without him. 

Sorry, I missed this and yes you did tweak the terminology

Definitely Jon Camp!  He was one of the 1970s "Rickenbacker Masters" including Squire, Rutherford, Ray Bennett (Flash), Gary Strater (Starcastle) and a few others I can't recall this late at night! 

Speaking of which, I'm quite remiss in not nominating my friend, bassist Ray Bennett of Flash!  He was a flat-mate of Chris Squire in London, and they seemed to cross-pollenate each other's style!  Here, dig! 

someone with an interesting career arch going from top jazz fusion bassist to 80's power pop purveyor.

Totally agree here. 

Pete Trewavas of Marillion is great IMO. 

yeah, the death of Terry Kath... But I do love that there are close a hundred shows with him, some with great quality.

Back when even the "ballad types" had great bass... This is FULL of counter-melodies.

"Something In This City Changes People"

Bit late to the show (always behind the beat, like bassist should), I'd say _me_.

How quick we forget some folks ... I was thinking Jack Casady deserves a mention, but I'm not sure anyone here listens to JA much, or probably thinks it's just a pop band. 

My thoughts are that a lot of European musicians are less tuned (or at least WERE) to the "song/hit" mentality of things in America, and it may have helped the development of a player a lot more. The "song/hit" mentality tends to hide and not allow time for a bass player to let loose and show some intelligent and amazing work, which European music, with its longer content, was able to do. 

I think that American record companies really hurt music after the 60's by not wanting to do so many long cuts ... and might not have helped that many of these record companies owned a lot of the radio stations ... meaning "their product" was played, important or not. FM Radio, however, started out free form and it wasn't until the late 70's when the great Corporate Rape took place and these corporations bought all the FM stations, and still own them to this day ... and all you hear? Their product as "hits and classics" ... but they never owned up to someone like Chris Squire ... one guy at a station even thought that CS was a jerk, and played like one ... and this was when CTTE came out!

It was much like the Internet these days ... there is always someone not respecting the music!

He's awesome. He needs to issue his "Bass Noodles" as a legit CD.