New Book
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Books and Miscellaneous Reviews
Forum Description: Reviews of prog books, memorabilia, etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=123158
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 18:25
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: New Book
Posted By: DocDan
Subject: New Book
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 03:50
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Prog Gnostic is a new book, created to help people explore Prog Rock. It is centred around over 300 reviews of the greatest Prog albums ever, with background information on bands, sub-genres and other topics. It is a colourful hyper-connected PDF with hundreds of links directly to Spotify and YouTube, so you can read about albums and click the links to hear the albums. It also has many links to ProgArchives, Discogs and Wikipedia. It is mostly designed for people who want to expand their Prog listening, but anyone who likes Prog might enjoy this book. It has taken 18 months to create, listen and research. I am releasing it for free as a PDF. I hope you enjoy it. Please download and enjoy, and feel free to pass on. I'd love any feedback anyone might have. https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6mlc86e8eyut2k/Prog%20Gnostic%20Book.pdf?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6mlc86e8eyut2k/Prog%20Gnostic%20Book.pdf?dl=0 http://https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6mlc86e8eyut2k/Prog%20Gnostic%20Book.pdf?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/av45f8qv377lxjr/Screenshot%202020-06-06%2010.24.15.png?dl=0" rel="nofollow -
------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Replies:
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 07:15
| I tried to download but only the picture downloaded. I was not able to view any of the actual content. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 08:48
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Hi, I guess we have to deduce from the picture how good the book is ... not sure I can read invisible books, though!  ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 09:41
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Many apologies for my stupidity. The link in the post above should now be fixed. I will also put it here (and check it again) just in case. http://www.dropbox.com/s/b6mlc86e8eyut2k/Prog%20Gnostic%20Book.pdf?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6mlc86e8eyut2k/Prog%20Gnostic%20Book.pdf?dl=0 ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 19:38
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Ok, so I just went through the entire thing very quickly. A few thoughts. First of all the graphics and presentation are amazing. The reviews(while I didn't read all of them thoroughly of course)seem to be very well done also. Also, I would say about 99 percent of the albums in the main section are essential for pretty much any prog fan. My only criticism is that it sounds like you don't really care much for some of the albums listed(especially the ones listed alphabetically after the main section)since some of the reviews seem to be lukewarm at best(this is just based on what I observed rather quickly though). Also, I really thought I was going to see Going for the One by Yes in there but somehow it didn't quite make the cut. :P Oh well. Really great job nonetheless!
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Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 05:47
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Thank you, I'm glad you appreciated it. Yes it's true there were some I liked more than others, including in the extras that I included to round things out a bit. In those extra ones I didn't really want to do too much to expand on bands already included, although that kind of flies in the face of the fact that I included 90125, Genesis and Invisible touch, and some King Crimson.... oh I don't know I guess I had to draw a line somewhere. The question of what should be included in something like this is tricky. I am not at all surprised that people will call me on this. As I was formatting it up after all the writing I was wondering, for example, if I should have put an album by The Flower Kings in. Anyway, thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 06:36
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Hi, Thanks, this kinda blind old man can finally get a touch or two ... looks really nice and the list of bands at the top is nice, for a change, although I am of the opinion that it is missing things like Sadistic Mika Band, and a few other bands from around the world that were major ... and not quite just from another country that nobody knows ... Japan in those days, and these days, probably had the highest output of music of all kinds. The only other comment so far, is the one about "krautrock" which is better as a definition, and includes the comment from Edgar Froese on that one special (about the teachers and parents) ... however, one of its better points is badly missed ... it was not a "rock scene" alone ... it was an ART's SCENE and there are many film makers, writers, playwrights and other folks that were also involved. Werner Herzog filmed AD2 and then went on to use Popol Vuh in many films ... and just so you know, the best example of all is the difference between Damo Suzuki and Klaus Kinski ... absolutely none ... one improvised to a microphone and the other improvised to a film camera. AND, there was a reason why Wim Wenders used so many musicians in his films, many of them German. Sadly, because so many folks into rock music, learning, seeing and appreciating films, plays, or other materials is not going to happen ... otherwise they would be mentioned a little more. "Krautrock" by itself, makes no sense ... it would be impulsive or/and just another stoned trip at the Fillmore and nothing more (which we know is not the case ... there are many folks that were not doing drugs already in that scene!!!!!!!!!!!!) ... but as an art scene with other examples, it comes alive a lot better and explains its work way better. It may even have had its source, more than likely, in many Fassbinder films that were also known to be improvised, which would have provided an interesting idea to do with instruments and other disciplines. However, Davis Stubbs' book has another suggestion that is very different but just as valuable ... there were at least 4 or 5 different "scenes" in music, and not all of them were "krautrock" at all ... some were revolutionary and just plain weird for the sake of weird (in my book!). Thus a "generalization" about this music, leaves behind a lot of musicians that helped bring it up and about, the best known of which would be TD and KS. And I would imagine that Peter Michael Hamel, would not like the intro either ... in one of his books he trashed all music that had any connection to popular music! My thoughts lean towards the fact that a lot of the "krautrock" folks had already turned against the drugs, specially after the commune days that AD2 specifies ... and dumps on in their first album ... the main cut and title is pretty obvious ... you get stoned, and then you have a party full of everything and excess available, a veritable orgy. But some folks think that the album is about an imaginary something or other, when it seems clear that Renate and other women, were tired of being taken advantage of, left and right and up and down. When one combines that with the school folks (CAN, AGITATION FREE, BETWEEN, TD, KS), who would not exactly be able to go to school stoned, the scene takes on a much different look.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 10:37
As much as I like the Flower Kings and as good as some of their albums were I'm not really sure they had any albums that stood out in a way that it would make it easy to choose one over the other. In other words it would be sort of a like domino thing(if you put this one in then you have to include this one, etc). That said I guess I personally would probably chose space revolver but it's by no means the only solid album in their discography.
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DocDan wrote:Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 10:54
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Congratulations for the work! I've gone through it and it's really nicely done, with lots of attention to design and layout. |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 13:02
Thanks for taking the time to write all this, I found it very interesting. I know generalisations can be difficult, but are often necessary. I suspect that one of the reasons that the music of Krautrock is more well known than other arts aspects that may be been connected, is that music, especially instrumental music, does not suffer from the same language barrier that some other things do. Thanks for taking a look ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 13:13
Deciding what should go into the extra reviews was definitely one of the hardest things to work out for the book. The main set of reviews was totally drawn from the lists I had found (and so was easy). As I said in the book, I was trying to complete the picture a bit, and I definitely "felt" my way through that. Inevitably it is very biased by my own limited knowledge and experience. I agree that there is a lot of similarity in the Flower Kings albums, and they are somewhat similar to modern Kaipa and Transatlantic. I like them a lot but it's hard to pick out stand-out classics. The Sea Within is many of the same people, but sets a new level as far as I am concerned, which makes me hope that there is much more good stuff to come. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 13:17
Thank you, you are so kind. I spent a lot of time trying to make it look nice, and is the first time I have done something like that on this scale. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 12:41
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That's impressive for working on it for just 18 months. I'd be lucky if I got 20 pages out of 18 months. I don't have any faults with the way you laid this out or what you have covered. What I find interesting about the way you formatted this, is that it really has a modular-like feel to it. What I mean by that, is if you want to add more reviews in the second grouping of albums after the Top 238 section, you can just insert them without having to change any of the pages around the insertion and the flow will remain intact. The other thing that caught my attention is I appreciated that you inserted some lesser-known or more obscure albums, even some that aren't typically considered prog. I'm a big fan of throwing curve balls at readers and I think by doing this, it might actually get some readers to want to explore the more obscure stuff out there (and there is much of it). There were several that I hadn't heard of myself, and I probably will go back and read your reviews more closely (I only gave this a browse-over, it's over 500 pages!). I also like that you were critical of an album and why you were critical about it. We don't all agree on what is the Top 100 or 500 or whatever. And being honest about why you don't like can be helpful to a listener in more ways than one. The only suggestions I can make are: 1. You could expand the Prog Live section, by inserting reviews of live albums you think might be helpful for the folks you're writing this for. 2. An index or indexes at the end of the book (maybe one for the albums and one for the groups). I don't know enough about PDF books to know if by doing this and having the index link to specific pages, whether those links remain intact when you insert pages at a later date (I'm thinking in terms of it being modular as I noted above). I can see this being a lot of work and potentially being a big hassle, so scrap the idea if it isn't feasible. 3. If you ever do want to expand this book, having a revisions page might be useful so the reader knows that they have the latest edition. With the way you designed this, I'm thinking like a colophon-style page, either before or after the legal page. Given the three suggestions above, you may also want to consider how big you want this book. Maybe the 500+ pages you have it at is where you want it. Will someone read a 1000+ page book? I think it depends on who you're writing for and how much time you want to spend on it. In other words, you can get carried away. But if it's a labor of love, who am I or anyone else to tell you how big of a book you should make? I happen to like big books, but I'm weird like that. Overall, I'm really impressed. Great job! ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 14:33
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You include a brief section about the musical instruments frequently used in Prog. I wonder if you might like my book "The Musical Instruments of Progressive Rock: An Illustrated Guide" http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122091&PID=5723084#5723084" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122091&PID=5723084#5723084
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 18:31
Hi, Possibly, however, film lasts a lot longer and is going to have a longer history than the pop music. Some musicians will survive it better, like EF/TD, KS and probably another one or two, however, in film alone, the listing of directors is much bigger and better known INTERNATIONALLY. Both Fassbinder, Herzog and Wenders are shown in Film School classes. I don't see academic schools talking about "krautrock", and the main reason for it, in my non-existant book ... is that we (specially here!!!) do not consider it an art form that needs more respect and understanding ... we continually talk about it from a "popular" and "commercial" point of view, and both of those have been known for a long time to not exactly have been the best and most well defined of all arts ... one can almost say it's almost all just another "song". For TD, KS and the major film makers, it's not quite about ... just another film. They do their work because it is their life ... and the major bands in "krautrock" had more on par with those folks than they did rock'n'roll'rs ... specially when you consider the school in Berlin making it clear they wanted music that did not have any western music similarities. Again, it's a lot more ... I wish that we all could see these things more than just another song ... and a lot of that early music was not about a song ... it was about a moment in time, and experience. And for some bizarre thoughts and ideas, people seem to think you can only have that when you are ripped on dope and at a Fillmore or in London in their favorite district! Even Jim Morrison screamed ... "WAKE UP" .... and his words behind it were major. But we stopped listening a long time ago, right? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 10 2020 at 14:02
Thanks! That's really nice praise, it makes me feel all glowy inside  I have created this in Microsoft Publisher, and the internal links all stay perfectly intact as you add things, which is great. At the moment I am considering it to be "done", (unless I get alerted of glaring errors that really need to be fixed), but it would be possible to expand it if I wanted. It would certainly be tempting, as time goes by, to insert reviews of newer albums, for example. However, I do feel like it is big enough, and there is a danger that if I keep tinkering and adding I will never really finish, and it will just keep growing, and growing. I shall mull this over. I am also not sure about indices (or indexes, I don't know which is correct) - you are the second person who has mentioned this. My "excuse" for not doing so is that as a PDF you can easily use the search function. My actual reason is more mundane - laziness. The publisher document has got so big that it actually takes about a minute to insert a link now. However, I'll think about it, and thanks for the suggestion. My next "big" project like this is to go mainstream. I have compiled a list of the 1000 greatest albums of all time (like this book, by combining existing lists). I reckon it will take me about 5 years in total and will be an amazing voyage of discovery. Time I plan to do it as a blog rather than a book. Thanks again. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 10 2020 at 14:03
That is a great book! Thanks for sharing that. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 10 2020 at 14:19
I'm not really sure of everything you are saying. You obviously know more about the arts in Germany around the Krautrock time than I do, and it's great that you are sharing that knowledge with me. You seemed to first say that it is a shame that the other arts at that time don't get as much recognition as the music, and yet here you rightly point out that these film-makers are studied worldwide. I think you are right that "popular" music is not as recognised academically is it could be, although I think there are degree courses out there where all sorts of rock and pop will be analysed. It has often been the case that populist art forms are not taken as seriously as others, and it is interesting that film has managed to spark academic interest in ways that rock/pop, television, computer games and comic books have not, despite there being some excellent and thoughtful works in all of these areas. I guess you get more academic attention for Citizen Kane than you would for Avengers Assemble. However, I do think that music, certainly in Prog and related genres, has created a lot of music that is not considered to be "throwaway". And I have had many amazing moments listening to music, I have never been to Filmore, and have never used recreational drugs. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 10 2020 at 19:44
Hi, I appreciate your time and effort ... it is meaningful, but I hope that it wakes you up to a lot of works that made the grade that are not exactly appreciated, and rock music in Germany had many examples of it. I think that the most important part of it all is taking all this music and "art" away from the hands of pop music reviewers and fan-boys (so to speak), because most of their like/dislike (and their need to say it is all "subjective" to justify their comments!) has nothing to do with the art details ... and this is where I differ from many of these folks, although there are quite a few folks here that are very valuable to me, in this area ... they also saw, and knew a lot of the things that I mention. But what is strange to me, is seeing the quantity of material that Holger Czukay had stated and posted in the CAN website, about school, and this included many others, that are also being ignored. Edgar Froese, at the very least, had stated some very knowledgeable details about it all, and made a declaration that was important ... but around here, it is like no one saw the 5 parts of the special on the subject (the 6th had too much David Bowie and I think it was scrambled on purpose!), in order to be able to understand it better, than just consider it all about a note, a chord, and the worst ... just a riff! That the bass has to sukk up to ... which Guru Guru made fun of when Mani stated that he doesn't play with anybody except the lead guitarist! And of course, this throws off the "equation" that bass is for rhythm ... not music ... and many folks will intentionally ignore that kind of music because it doesn't sound "right" to them! Sadly, a lot of these things and comments, but many of those artists, are all getting lost and disappearing ... and many books that are written ... and I am a writer mind you ... is missing the SOURCE ... and what do we have left? ... someone with a blue guitar and an organ, and a lead guitar riff ... like everyone else in rock music has not had that from day 1! I hope to be able to pile up enough nickels to buy your book ... what I saw was OK in my book, and I don't want you to feel that I am trashing what you put together ... but I have been, forever, one of the many folks that was THERE, and played all the stuff when it came out ... and most people are simply looking at the stuff in retrospect and comparing it to the stuff they like ... and you don't go to the Louvre to compare the Mona Lisa to a Rembrandt or Vermeer ... and that's all you need to remember ... the arts are all over, everywhere ... it's all a matter of what you see with your eyes, ears and so on ... nothing else! My work is about who helped who ... and if you read the "Director on Director" series of books, one or two maybe, you will find that these folks talk about what inspired them, and if you go back to Bunuel, it was all about the folks around him for a long time! Until he was able to get away to Mexico and the rest is history!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 12 2020 at 13:19
I am enjoying your posts, even though sometimes I struggle to understand your points. From context I deduce that you may be German, and if so, or regardless, if English is not your first language, well done for carrying on such an in-depth discussion in a non-native language. I think though, that there are times that you hint at things and I don't get the hint, or maybe refer to things that are outside my knowledge, like the 5 parts of a special on a subject - was this TV? I don't know of it. I recognise that I could have gone into much more depth and detail in my book. If I had done, though, it would be a very different book, and the research I would have had to do would have been very different. The intention was to help the proverbial seeker to discover music that is new to them that they would enjoy. Of course I had no desire to mis-represent anything in the process, but I did want to keep context relatively light and simplified and let the music speak for itself. When writing the reviews, the intent was to give an honest impression of the music in a way that would inform the reader, so they would know what to try and what might suit them. And, yes, there is some flippancy in there as well, I'm sure there are people who would be horrified by what I said about Meshuggah, for instance. Whether somebody was "there" or not, at the time of a musical or artistic movement, surely is not something under the control of most people. Of course people discover music in retrospect much of the time. Many people are like me in that as they get older they discover more and more different areas of music and the arts and their appreciation deepens. And yes, of course it is true that for some people, the more they know about the context of that music or art, the more they enjoy it, but for many people they find they are able to enjoy music that is new to them without making a deep, academic study of what was happening. I think it is a shame in some ways that contemporary classical music went down the route where it was almost impossible to enjoy without contextual information. Music, however serious the intent, can just be something that somebody puts on in the background while they work, and there should be nothing wrong with that. We shouldn't try to put barriers up to the enjoyment people get from music, no matter how shallow that enjoyment is. I was very interested in what you said about reviewers justifying their reviews as "it is all subjective". I hope I am not like that. Quality and appreciation are very complex, and this is something I discuss in my job regularly. It is self-evident that different people enjoy different music. It is also self-evident that there is such a thing as quality in creative contexts, and this applies to music. I think, however, that it must be complex, and that actually there are more than one quality parameter that can be considered. So "good" music depends on what experience you want when listening to it, as background music for working, for dancing to, something with thought-provoking lyrics, songs that express what you are feeling, complex music you can say "hmmm, that's interesting". Yes, a lot of music that finds its way onto the radio is shallow, or lacking in substance in some ways, but even in pop there is good pop and bad pop. It's just that although there may be widespread agreement about what is good and what is not, there are many individual tastes and differences in opinion. I'm also quite interested in what you say about bass. As a bassist, myself, I know that bass can be so much more than rhythm, but I think a lot of people don't really notice the bass that much, or don't think about the bass, they more likely feel the bass unconsciously. Because I am a bassist I do notice the bass more than others. I think the bass can play varied roles in music, from laying down a solid, but boring foundation (like in Miles Davis' electric period jazz), to holding down a wicked groove in funk, to pounding out a beat in dance, to being complex and show-offy for Mark King of Level 42, to complex lines like Chris Squire. Probably my favourite bassist is John Deacon of Queen, for whom the bass is at times more like a classical cello, with understated harmonic lines which add an extra element of beauty to the music. I think the last thing I want to say is, you don't need to pile up any nickels to get my book - it is free. Please download and enjoy. I'm looking forward to what you come up with next. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 12 2020 at 14:08
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Hi, Portuguese, by way of Brazil, ended up in America at 15. English is my 2nd language. Father is well known name in Portuguese Literature. The original BBC (I think it was ... !!!) special on "kraurock" had 6 parts, and the 6th was scrambled, likely because it had too much David Bowie is my guess. Edgar's comments were on the first hour of that special, but the rest is interesting and sometimes not great ... seeing one of the FAUST folks just hit a cement mixer and calling it music, is nove and silly, but sometimes it stretches the whole thing into oblivion. But the number of folks talking in it, was excellent. Being "there" is not important ... but the understanding is ... and my comment was more about the way that folks look at a lot of that music, instead of getting into and figuring out why it was so different. The funny thing is that this particular scene also had film, theater, and other arts and it is like no one realizes that the mixes in people's heads are basically the same but the instrument they used was a musical instrument, the other was a pen, the other a camera, the other a stage ... it's the same thing about the other great movements of arts in history ... all of the "major" periods of art included music, paintings, literature ... and so on ... thus, to simply recognize rock music by itself completely isolated from its roots, is removing it from its source. I do not think of "shallow" when people misinterpret music or the arts ... the visceral reactions are all valid, however, many of these are related to some things that are not artistic ... like religion, and a government or two. I came from a Fascist government and if there was a "shallow" bunch of folks they were it! Same thing in Spain and Italy. To the point that my dad, who had gotten a name as a reviewer of films by Elia Kazan and other major film makers, had a publication with 30 reviews EDITED ... so the review was totally incomprehensible. Someone published these together to give folks an idea, and by the time you look at it, the comments ... just won't stop! As to the "death" of classical music, from its glory days that kind of ended in the 60's, when major stars sold out in minutes, to the point much later when even Pavarotti could not sell out the Met! But, in my book, Jethro Tull's cover for "Passion Play" had already predicted that ... with a dead ballerina in the cover! It was time for a new music and this has been the case. My views on "subjective/objective" will remain private. I do believe that some folks are using "subjective" as an excuse to say something personal that has nothing to do with the art whatsoever ... sort of like ... you go to see Mona Lisa ... and say "stupid" and move on to the next room. Sadly, the history and the time and place, meant absolutely nothing, and the same thing is happening with a lot of those folks ... in my book. Doesn't make them bad people ... but I think they are hurting the music more than they are helping. I never find music lacking in "substance" ... what I find is the ILLUSION that lyrics often give us that this music is about this and that ... and if you take the lyrics out, no one will remember the lyrics, and your vision will be totally different than mine! I remember an album, Mahler's 3rd Symphony I think it was ... and it is all instrumental (of course), and the terror I had thinking that some rock music folks ... all they can say is ... just meandering crap that is not needed! ... and it reminds me of the end of the film by Ken Russell ... he wrote something for his wife ... and she still walked out without bothering to listen to it! Bass guitar ... I had one for years, but never had the time to learn it ... and in the middle of those years my pinky on the left hand lost some nerves and I have switched hands ... the funny think about what I liked to play, was that I was trying to learn something else at the same time ... my teacher actually liked it ... in a bunch of songs, we would play and such, and somehow I always had a different touch of ending, that he always enjoyed hearing ... it was as if I was bored, but I wasn't ... but on different days, times and places, the feeling is different and that ending will be different again! There are a lot of bass players I like and many I don't seem to worry too much about ... the experimental ones are the most important, since they go all over the place and almost no one else does. My tastes in music changed 55 years ago, when I became more aware of how good rock music and jazz music was ... which at the time were considered just pop music and not valuable ... but in the middle of all that I went almost straight to ECM ... sister had Keith Jarrett for several years, and then I hear Jan Garbarek and followed him (didn't click on that early jazz stuff at all!!!!), and then one day in 1972 I heard Egberto Gismonti ... and a lot of the pop music took a dump ... I only kept YES, ELP (had been with Keith since the start ... he is a classical music composer and one of the best!), The Doors (always ... movie music!!!), and a lot of the SF stuff, though I also had Chicago. I'm not sure I can think of one I like better than the other, because so much music is so different ... but one of my favorite listens is LOTHAR MEID with Amon Duul 2 (all the way to Vive La Trance), whose touch is unlike so many others ... it's like he is on his own ... you don't think of what he is playing as "rhythm" at all ... and Renate once said that they wanted to have a sound that was more classical music oriented ... and that means that the rock music ideas are out the door, as well as the ones from the Berlin Music School ... music with no western influences! And that meant that the bass being played like we teach it ... as rhythm and must be in tune with the drums ... is not what music is about ... and I think that is a major idea ... although I would definitely step aside to hear an opinion that makes sense of the music a lot better than I did, and can explain the differences ... a "bass" in an orchestra is not there for "rhythm", thus, for my ears, a bass is wasted in a rock band, just like the drummer is, when you can use a metronome to keep track of the time, and all the drummer can do is hit the snare drum every 4 beats and double up on hits on transitions! Wow ... a great musician! No wonder it's a joke in classical music circles! I do like Chris Squire a lot, although I think that he became a copy of himself after Relayer ... the last great album by that band for me ... but I would have a hard time comparing him to Charlie Haden, and other great well known bass players, even Stanley Clarke .... Jaco Pastorius comes to mind ... some thing it was too much, but he managed to make it seem fine within the work he was doing. Mick Karn. Tony Levin is considered one of the best Stick players, but Don Schiff is much better to my ear and the stuff he did with "The rocket Scientists" a few years back ... and his resume, is scary! You're not gonna get that much work without being good! That's about it for now ... thx for asking! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 12 2020 at 15:37
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you know.. I'd pay damn good money to read a book of yours Pedro.. cheaper and safer than dope, coke, and Jack.. make it so man... get to writing.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 13 2020 at 00:38
Hi, Thank you Micky ... but I'm not writing about "progressive music" because there is not enough interest in it, and folks, for the most part, only want kiss-as$ material to satisfy their commercial hunger. What I'm writing about, is something that does not interest you folks ... I'll only say it is about "improvisation" and it already has several chapters on it. However, musicians are not a part of this at all, and thus, not important for the annals of the PA global enterprise, just like they would not be interested in writers. But there are a few musicians that I have been showing this to, but as far as I know and think, only someone like ENO would be valuable for comments on it ... or maybe RICHARD PINHAS ... but I don't think they have the time to do this right. But if there was one person I would have loved to have comment on it, it would have been Daevid Allen, since so much of this work is based on some "inner conversations" that I have in dreaming (all written down already but not available until after I pass away!), because it will interfere with the image people have of GONG and their work! As for PA, as much as I like this place, I gave up on it a long time ago! Writers are not for them since databases don't like writers ... they like meaningless words, since the database would not know the difference. There is some poetry (most old stuff ... I hope to update that soon! Read "You're no longer a vision, or a poem), and 3 short stories ... my novels will never be published until after I'm gone because they also feature some sex that is not for children (so to speak!) and I did not want to "censor" my characters, who had their life. To me, these stories are "all-inclusive" instead of hiding behind the peep hole and idea. I can only remember Ann Rice doing something similar, but even her "sexy" stuff is soft porn'd for my tastes, but it is way better for her novels and makes much better sense of "vampires" than anything else has in the past 100 years. In some ways, Micky, writing about these musical things and such, is a sort of "inspiration" for a lot of the work I do, and some folks have stated before that a lot of my poetry is "musical", and I guess it could be since there used to be some music in the background upon writing a lot of it ... but for me, specially these days, the "focus" is more valuable, pretty, in full color and the greatest movie ... with music, too, that I have never heard ... thus silence has become my greatest friend ... now you know why "lyrics" are such merde in my comments ... most of them try to convince you of the old stuff like ... Major is happy and Minor is sad, the kind of thing that jazz blew out of the universe forever ... but we still cling to "melody" in rock music and haven't grown past it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2020 at 06:09
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ahh Pedro... you know you have always been one of my favorites here. If not for you people would pick on me more than they do for my stream of conscious style which probably verges on the edge of unreadable. Mine though do stay topical though so I suppose my point does get across through shear lack of tact or subtlety and pure stubbornness.. you though..wow man.. furcking A man you are out there and i mean that in a very affectionate way. You are an idealist in a way i am with many non musical avenues but yeah you are right to give up on the forum. I count myself in that lost cause group. Music to me is not something you think about. and your thoughtful commentary is often lost on me as my eyes glaze over and i feel an urge to snort a line and down a bottle of Jack. For me music .. much art.. is not about feeding the head but feeding the soul and that is nothing easy .. in fact is perhaps impossible .. to put into words. that said... forum time is fun time.. but I'd do a book of yours no doubt for you do have some really interesting notions and insights into art and music... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 13 2020 at 08:28
| I like it! Visually appealing, and interesting way to choose the albums to review. Also, you have an engaging writing style. |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 13 2020 at 08:52
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P & M: You guys make me want to laugh and you make me want to cry! You two should just get a room. (...and that bottle of Jack.) But, seriously, I know the forums for me serve as more of a quick in-and-out--like snack food. Yet there are times (and topics--the right topics) that I'm drawn in and read everything OP to most-recent. I know far less about music and art than you guys, and my opinions are far less based in scholarship, but I know what I like (major seventh chords, odd rhythm, and space [the roomy kind, not the extraterrestrial kind]). Ofttimes I find deep, cerebral writings too dense for my little brain, but if it has humanity (major seventh chords), eccentricity (odd rhythm), and room for me to digest (space), then I'm in heaven. Plus, I am mesmerized by the mysticism of music: it's unseen, otherworldly, and has undeniably spiritual effects, and yet it is created by creatures of Creation! Such strange and unexpected circumstances! Keep writing, you guys. I love trying to figure out where you're coming from, Micky, with your spacious "streams of consciousness," and I love trying to figure out where you're coming from, Pedro, though the density of your art is a little more work for me. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 14 2020 at 07:04
Thank you. that's very kind ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 14 2020 at 07:38
I'm loving the crazy direction this thread has gone off on. So many things in here I could pick up on. I think at the top of the list is the idea that a drummer is wasted in a rock band!!?!!??!!? There is so much more to good rock drums than keeping a beat. There is a subtlety to good drumming that is nigh impossible to replicate with a drum machine, that I'm not sure how to even describe, but must be about the accenting of certain beats and the slight differences in timing that can give different moods, urgency, laid-back, feeling of groove, and so on. As a bassist I have played with drum machines and with drummers and there is nothing quite like the "lock" that happens when a bassist and a drummer get to know each other well and play off each other. I'm not opposed to sequenced music, or to drum machines, (although synth bass can somewhat offend me) but there is "feel" that you will get from John Bonham, and from Bill Bruford that... oh well I think you know what I am saying. So I don't know Don Schiff, but I love Tony Levin as a bassist, especially his dowel finger playing. To my mind, some of his best work is with Peter Gabriel. You mention Mick Karn which took my by surprise. Many years ago I bought two LPs in a record shop, merely because they had similar art on the cover (by Maxwell Parrish). One of which was a Moody Blues album which I was never that bothered by, the other of which was The Waking Hour by Dali's Car, a one-album project involving Mick Karn. It's not my usual kind of music, but I love it, and the bass playing is extraordinary on it. Another bassist I really like is Herbie Flowers, who as well as being in Sky, did the bass for The War of the Worlds, and some for Variations. Also Bootsy Collins. I think there is some truth that some music is reliant on the lyrics. This is OK, and for some music, the lyrics are the important focus, but sometimes the lyrics aren't that great. I think it is more of a challenge to make engaging music that is instrumental. I have been a songwriter for years and found it a challenge when I decided to record some instrumental music, but a good challenge. There's a link below if you want to check it out. I don't know many people who would turn their noses up at music if it didn't have vocals, but I do know people who prefer instrumental music to vocal music. I probably like both equally. I think I saw the BBC series you are talking about - I saw some such series several years ago, and remember the cement mixer. I don't remember it well though. It probably taught me a lot about the Krautrock scene, and may have been the start of me listening to some, but I would say I have learned more from listening to the music, a bit from Julian Cope's book, and some from my brother. I would not claim to be any kind of expert, but then I hesitate to call myself expert in prog in general on this esteemed forum. There are some very knowledgeable people hanging around here. I don't think classical music has died, and I think there is (certainly in the UK) more interest in it than there was in my youth, but more in older work than the contemporary/experimental sorts that started last century. The most significant area of new classical music that is still traditionally orchestrated, and is less experimental in terms of harmony (in particular) than the experimental stuff, is film scores, and some of the most well-known "classical" music of the last 40 years is orchestral music by John Williams and others, written for film scores. Where are we going next? Who can say? The world is your lobster. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 14 2020 at 08:58
|
Hi, Kinda strange ... I don't look at music and think ... that's not my cup of tea ... there are good players in all kinds of music, however, the market these days is ruling too much music, and too much of it has to be "matched" up to what we know, and the desire to just go forward, and not have to do the same as everyone else is lost ... because you have to play with me, or I have to play with you ... which we don't ... but we could agree to catch up with each other at certain points. BB mentions in his book a bunch of gigs that were all improvised from beginning to the end, and he didn't know what he was going to play or vice versa, and he says that some of those were some of the best things he ever did, and my guess is that he is talking about having to color the music just as much as the other player, not necessarily "playing the drums" ... and there are a few drummers that I like listening to ... for example, Steve Gadd, in how he made Rickie Lee Jones sound better, and then to see him years later playing with Kate Bush and coloring music that had no "beat", so to speak ... it just flowed non-stop ... and that is something that scares 9 out of 10 musicians. You don't know where it is going, but concentrate on the feeling ... and it will happen and work! Lyrics ... the first thing you learn in theater, about acting and directing (I majored in Directing in Film and Theater), is that what you want, what you do, and what the audience gets is three different things from three different universes, not to mention that the drunk Friday Night audience is rowdy (Heheheh!) and the Saturday Night audience is all the intellectuals and they don't laugh, cry or move until the end, when they applaud. And you're gonna tell me that the lyrics of a song are going to be understood ... Shakespeare has been at it for 500 years ... and folks still don't know what the fudge he is saying, and argue about its content, if you do the iambic crapper as opposed to the modern jargon crapper. The fights between Theater folks, and English Department folks at the Universities the world over is the worst because of this ... and someone telling me that Stairway to Bullsh*t is going to arrive at its climax and everyone is pleased ... that's an ideal ... not a reality, but you might be enchanted by the fact that you were there and you saw Robert try to do that song again! That has nothing to do with the lyrics ... and this is one area where folks get confused! To this day, a lot of folks hate REVOLUTION #9 ... and I keep telling them ... for crying out loud, get a recorder and walk down the street for 15 minutes and then edit and clean it up to 10 minutes, and you got REVOLUTION #10 ... and it has more meaning than lyrics ... why? IT'S REAL ... although it could be said that your trimming to down a wee bit of the realism. I think that the Beatles learned from George Martin that lyrics were like jokes ... one day good, the other day bad ... and GM had done the majority of SOUND EFFECTS for the Goons and even did comedy albums for Sellers and Milligan. But folks are taking "lyrics" seriously, and think that they "represent the music" and that is one of the greatest lies and concepts ever invented. I like to say ... one has to get over oneself for his/her words ... I like to say that words matter, mostly because I come from a house of literature, and song lyrics for the most part do not amount to one page of a good book, and I would not trade them, either! So, it sort of becomes like saying ... oh well, they haven't read good books ... to know better or the difference. Or heard poets read their work ... it's not the same ... and I don't like (sorry) the idea that we think that these lyrics are so valuable to our lives ... they aren't! And neither are all poets ... but some are better than others, specially when you hear them. Classical Music has died in America, and is going to die further, since the market is all about the "hit" and the "sales" and it is hurting ... but it is good ... I think in the end, the classical music folks will have to re-evaluate their problems and finally come to grips that several unions though doing the right thing, hurt the concerts and the process of creating music to the point of making it impossible and the only thing they do is the stuff they already know. I think that rock music is going to end up in a similar hole sooner or later ... everything is the same. It is, likely, different in Europe that has a lot more respect for the history of the arts, but in America it is as if ... let's kill the past ... past music is crap. And yes, some soundtrack musicians are for me the best in "classical music" in the past many years ... I still listen to Ryuichi Sakamoto, Vangelis, and the sdtks by Tangerine Dream ... and love them all ... and how they were used and once in a while you get a director that knows how to color music and I find that enchanting, though (again) you have to remember that without that visual, your memory would see something else ... and thus, that is not the "ultimate" definition of that music! The most recent soundtrack I have really enjoyed is KIN, done by the band Mogwai. I do 'foreign film' reviews and the one thing that always stands up is music for me ... and how the director used it ... and you know right away the commercial directors from the "artistes" ... Btw ... all of this was written while listening to "BODY:MIND:SPIRIT" and what a massively great and enjoyable listen that was. Have a wonderful day! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 14 2020 at 09:19
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hmmm... not on one beer.. I'll wait for till #4 to try that one.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 15 2020 at 01:13
|
Huge job, really  Didn't read my colleagues' posts, but IMHO, missing in the genre is prog folk (Gryphon, Tull, Harmonium, and big bits of Gentle Giant... let alone all of the acts in PA's datrabase. a few (gentle) remarks in the first third of the book: I'd have included Renaissance's debut as one of their main album (after all Haslam & Dunford owe everything to it). Maybe Supertramp's Brother rather than BIA as well. Little Krautrock in your band list as well (outside AD2 and Grobschnitt). I didn't see Can or Neu! (you cite Terry Riley, though as minimalism) Surely Hogarth's Marillion deserves at least one albm in their section. Not sure I'd include G&C witthout associating 10 CC in the same space. Nice to see Zrank Fappa filed under F  Ditto for Rerry Tiley  For SM, I'd maybe include Bundles rather than Fifth. It's more "à propos" I'd really avoid Miles and the KOB controversy that PA has introduced here. |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 15 2020 at 12:44
Thanks :) and thanks for the comments. There are always going to be things that people think should have been in, and your suggestions make sense, I think. The main list of albums was derived from combining several lists from several sources, and I basically let that be. In that sense that was not decided by me. The "extra" albums were decided by me, to fill things out a bit (but I had to draw a line, and I did actually try to not just put in my favourite albums, honestly!) The Acts (mostly band) list was also mostly out of my control, in that I decided that any act with two or more albums would get an act page, those with only one could have the act information in with the review. So I guess I had some influence there by what albums I chose for the extra albums. Complicated and convoluted? You bet. Good point on Prog Folk, maybe it should have had a page. I'll think about that for if there is ever a second edition. I love Brother where you Bound and I nearly included it in the extra albums. I felt like it was too self-indulgent given how many Supertramp albums were already in. It's a shame, though as it is probably their most "Prog" album. Krautrock - I hear you on Can and Neu! The list, as I said, was dictated by external forces. For the extras I bowed to my brother to suggest a smattering of krautrock to include. Hogarth's Marillion - you could be right, in the extra albums. To my shame I am not very familiar with them. (You can shoot me now if you want). G&C - so I did wonder about adding some 10CC also, another band I love by the way. Consequences and Freeze Frame made it in the extras because they are so unusual. Zrank Fappa and Rerry Tiley - aw man! Alphabetisation seems like it would be so simple, and yet.... So years ago I made a decision that I would alphabetise by firstname in my own music collection, for a combination of reasons, but mostly because I needed a consistent approach, and got sick of putting in commas (like Gilmour, David) and had had the occasional mistake like Springfield, Buffalo. You caught me! SM: I did what was in the list. I did not feel it needed adding to, so Bundles didn't get in. TBH I expected to like Soft Machine more than I did. Miles - I presume you are talking about Miles Davis. What is this KOB controversy of which you speak? This sounds like a can of worms. Oh, must be Kind of Blue. What controversy? IMHO, brilliant album, but definitely not prog. Have I just taken an inadvertent side in a vendetta? I'm a bit of a stranger in these parts (PA forums). Thanks for your comments :) ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 15 2020 at 13:56
Yeah, I really like that side of things, and when it comes to prog, although I love the Third Wave, I wish there was more space in the crafted stuff for some genuine improvisation. One of the albums in the book is THRaKaTTaK which is effectively a compilation of live improvisations and it is amazing, but a difficult listen all the same. I think improv, especially "experimental" improv is hard to do well, or at least I think so because I'm not really sure what "well" means. There are some of the Miles Davis electric period albums that are very improv, but I find boring. I've been to Jazz gigs and played in Jazz band for a while so I appreciate that in-the-moment flow thing, but not sure sometimes how much an audience can enjoy it. I think it's a brave thing to turn up on stage with no plan, and maybe it's a brave thing to go to a gig where you know that is going to happen.
I'm pretty sure he died at some point.
I listened to rap album the other day (I felt like an adventure) and felt very much the same. I can follow Willy Wobbledagger better to be honest. Mind you some parts of your posts make me scratch my head just as much.
I just played part of it to my 10-yr-old son. He wasn't impressed. He didn't like the repeated "No, 9" - it irritated him. If you like that sort of thing you might like Trash Vortex: http://www.mediafire.com/?zm1txew9vf9k3" rel="nofollow - http://www.mediafire.com/?zm1txew9vf9k3
There have always been good lyrics, and pap lyrics, and occasionally good lyrics masquerading as pap lyrics. There is an art to a well-turned phrase and I think lots of people think they can do it when they can't. However, I think there's also something to be said about the delivery. I blame the X factor and shows like that for aggrandising vocal technique over actual expression of meaning. I think the epitome of this is Alexandra Burke's version of "Hallelujah" which is a travesty. I think this is why I favour acts that write their own songs, because it's too easy to mechanically parrot out somebody else's song with all of the notes and none of the soul.
Wow, thanks! :) Take care. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 07:42
Tell him, for fun, that his steps and walking are just as repetitive, and we don't have to mention his heartbeat! (Gotta have fun with those comments ... )
No question on that, and someone like Jim Morrison, or Peter Hammill are great examples ... but their "edge" is of a more poetic sentiment and the music adjusts to it, than the music dictating the singing and the lyrics as is the case with most rock/pop music ... and now the singer shuts up for the SOLO by the guitar! Which ought to tell you how important the lyrics are when you "change" the focus! There are folks that have a knack for good set of words, and I won't even question someone like Mick Jagger who is one of those folks that can not only come up with the lyrics, he also finds a way to say them right ... and this is important ... but it is not present in all of his work! But vocal "techniques" are an interesting acting phenomena ... and one wonders how Joe Cocker, and Roger Chapman, made it ... but their vocal feeling and quality is so clean and well done, that it is hard to ignore. ... I'm not sure it matters if it is written by the same person or not ... some folks are excellent "actors" and know how to use their voice really well, as opposed to the opera styled singer whose most important value is hitting the right notes, and emotion is secondary because there is not enough time to do it, and it will throw the orchestra off the pace and the conductor's baton! Another detail that has hurt a lot of the operatic (sung) materials in classical music ... both rock and jazz have far more emotional (sensitive) materials than any opera out there. That means that any younger audience is not going to spend money on the classical music in their lifetime more than likely and at 65 (I'm 69), they will still go see King Crimson and other bands, but you won't get me to see the Portland Symphony even for a free concert! (Conductor turned me down when suggesting doing some Frank Zappa ... and instead brought in Pink Martini yet again ... and they are still complaining of their lack of funds ... and no interest in getting a new audience! One of the things to remember in acting ... VERY IMPORTANT ... and the same goes for singing ... is that one word, or one small sentence can be said/sung in a bunch of different ways, and all of them will imply something else. I might sound a bit strange here, but I tend to like the poet reading/singing his own words ... somehow they shine. I remember reading Allen Ginsburg and it did nothing for me ... it was too plain, or maybe just "pedestrian" (not in a bad way!) ... and then you hear him reading his own words in the film TONITE WE ALL LOVE IN LONDON, and the material explodes and is quite vivid and strong and meaningful for the total design experience of the film, although the bands in it, did not really want anything to do with the political side of things ... they liked the idea of playing in that environment, not to mention that some of these writers lived in a house with many actors and other musicians and writers ... Burroughs being one of them, and Daevid Allen had many stories to tell about that! It's not a coincidence, and many of these folks learned a few things about their art ... they probably shared their ideas to justify what they were trying to do, is also my guess. And then Daevid and Gilly became the best "beat poets" ever in rock music ... second to none! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 07:55
on the PA forums , some irritating members   keep bringing the KOB issue back to the front ... hence the can of worms. Weird thing, though is how I don't get that on a prog rock forum Bitches Brew is not ranked above KOB, especially so that BB is the main reason for Miles' presence on this site. |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 13:44
I would definitely say that KOB is a better album than BB, but surprised the KOB is here as it is very hard to argue that it is prog. I guess there is a question about the reviews here, whether they are rating how good it is as an album, or how prog it is. I wouldn't really say BB is prog either, I think you only really get proggy when you get Return to Forever and Mahavishnu Orchestra. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: DocDan
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 14:06
I think its a sad thing that people with voices like Peter Hammill and Mark Knopfler, and to be honest Bob Dylan, would struggle to get a recording contract these days. I still can't put my finger on why Mark Knopfler's voice works, when he wanders around the note, mumbling in half-spoken, half-sung ways, but somehow it just does work. ------------- The purple music project is an instrumental prog rock project. http://www.purplemusic.org" rel="nofollow - http://www.purplemusic.org Dan |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 18 2020 at 07:40
Hi, And that's when you know that someone is "serious" about their work, and not just another pop song. Bob Dylan, for all intents and purposes, would probably use that auto tune thing these days to get attention, but his style/method is road-proven and he's fine with that ... but remember, that he started with his WORDS ... even though the music was very good as well. Go back to BLONDE ON BLONDE and listen to the whole album, and the whole thing is an acting masterpiece. He knows what he is saying and how ... and he changes it every night in concert which was one of the reasons for the incredible number of bootlegs of his shows way back when ... between him, Led Zep, and later PF, they just about "ruled" the bootleg world! Acting words is tough ... Peter Hammill is an example that he doesn't write songs ... he rips up portions of his SKIN to come up with a song, so he can deliver it right ... goes back to his really early days and being able to scream and get really tough in singing his personal material in the earlier solo days ... SILENT CORNER EMPTY STAGE ... being evident. he would have a terrible time with this today, but a lot of folks would fall for it quickly because it is so strong. Oddball moments ... Sir John Gielgud in PROSPERO'S BOOKS ... Willy's The Tempest is a very difficult read ... you have no idea what is being said and things change so quickly you lose track of the story and where it goes ... and then you see Greenaway's film ... and the only thing you gotta do is CLOSE YOUR EYES and listen to Sir John Gielgud ... never have words felt so pure and so clean ... and this is rare, and not found in a lot of popular music, because people that are this good, will not waste their time with bubble gum quality of words about the great big book, or some cartoon version of yet another this or that. The importance of the modern this or that and technology ... a lot of material that has been driven into the ground so badly. Or is you want some surrealism ... listen to Sir Ian McKellen deliver his last lines in the film RICHARD III ... and it will bust your brain globules to pieces when it comes to ideas ... Words can be magic, within any context ... but you will never get me to bite on Harry Potter or Steven King! There is way far better literature out there, with much better words, than those, or any SONG in the history of rock music, progressive or punk! In fact, watching PENELOPE SPHEERIS three films there were many bands in her films whose words were far more valuable and important ... but we think it is some sort of "revolution" that is going to corrupt your kids ... !!! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Droxford
Date Posted: September 06 2020 at 13:15
|
Thank you very much DocDan for making the 'Prog Gnostic' book available . Very generous offer. Started reading the book, and enjoying it. Particularly pleased to see that you have included the Mahavishnu Orchestra and Miles Davis. Impressed by your knowledge of bands, and like the humour as well. |