The Police???
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122921
Printed Date: December 01 2024 at 03:35
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Topic: The Police???
Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Subject: The Police???
Date Posted: May 05 2020 at 10:44
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I realize I am about to open a huge can of hair-splitting worms here, but I'm really interested in knowing: Why do Talking Heads qualify to be part of this site as Prog Related... ...while The Police do not qualify to be part of this site at all?
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Replies:
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 05 2020 at 11:30
Let the can of worms wriggle free, and use them as angling bait for another debate about prog. Personally, I don't think Talking Heads OR The Police should be included in ProgArchives.
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Steve Wyzard wrote:Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 05 2020 at 11:35
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%3ca%20href=" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38 "> http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38 read about it first nobody is saying Talking Heads is a prog band.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 05 2020 at 11:39
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Each act is evaluated on its own merits on a case-by-case basis but also compared to the most relevant related material/ acts that are in Prog Archives. Police are most Prog Related in terms of members in albums included in the Prog categories, I'd say. Andy Summers collaborated with Robert Fripp. Stewart Copeland was involved with Curved Air (in Eclectic), Oysterhead (in Prog Related) and Stewart Copeland is in Prog Related (the related to related part doesn't present such a strong case). With Taking Heads, there is the Eno connection and Adrian Belew. David Byrne is included in Crossover Prog,Brian Eno is in Progressive Electronic,Adrian Belew is included in Eclectic Prog, and there is that King Crimson connection. King Crimson's Discipline reminds me very much of Talking Heads and of course Belew joined King Crimson. The way that Prog Related tends to work is that if an act is seen to have sufficient support for PA, good relevant arguments are made for the addition that satisfy various of the Prog Related criteria (showing the relations) and then a Special Collab supports it and put it to the Admin, then the admin agree to it, then it is included. The Police have been suggested to PA in a poll form, but it didn't have much support (most were against it), I don't think really strong arguments were put forward for including it (The Talking Heads are here therefore The Police should also be would not be a good argument for inclusion), and I don't know that a Special Collab ever brought it forward to Admin. I didn't follow the Talking Heads or The Police discussions closely By the way, I moved this topic to General Music Discussions because the subforum you placed it in is intended for acts included in prog categories. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 05 2020 at 12:21
No idea. The Police should be on here as prog related but so should the Tubes and XTC as well as a few others probably.
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Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: May 05 2020 at 17:51
| Thank you for your detailed reply and for taking the idea into consideration! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 00:08
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I'd have no problem with The Police being included although one of the arguments for inclusion used to be that they should have made at least one 'prog' album. The first 3 Police albums are very much Indie/New Wave but you can se clearly they were stretching into new areas and embracing more experimentation on Ghost In The Machine and Synchronicity . The best stuff on those albums put them in touching distance of eighties 'electro prog' with their prog buddies Rush. I also think there may also be a case for Sting inclusion as a solo artist.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 03:03
And in no time, we'd have demands to add Magazine, Television, Patti Smith, Joy Division OMD, etc....   The day after that we'd have demands for Ah-A, Heaven 17 , Madona, Duran, and Culture Club...  No thanks!!  Nooooowwwwww, for TH, there are three links (Eno, Fripp and Belew, and the 80's Crimson is clearly TH-influenced. Indeed, both Stewart and Andy have prog links and Gordon was a jazz man before forming the Police. Gong's Mike Howlett also had something to do with the first police days as he was involved in Strontium 80. But the line's got to be drawn somewhere, and it doesn't have to be a straight line either. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 05:09
| The Police have no place on a prog rock site, TH have at least a link with a couple of their albums (Fear of Music and Remain in Light). |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 06:31
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Prog Related just means they have historical or personnel ties to prog without being prog themselves. Talking Heads seem an ideal candidate because of the Belew/Fripp/Eno connection, as Logan pointed out. I guess a similar case could be made for The Police (Summers worked with Fripp, Copeland played in Curved Air), but in general, I don’t think Prog Related is really a focus for the admin team (nor for the mission of the site itself). IIRC, new additions to this category have been done very sparingly, just to provide some necessary context for other forms of music as they relate to prog. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 06:56
And Andy Summers was in Soft Machine for a very short while after Daevid Allen was refused re-entry back in to the U.K, and also guested on Jon Lord’s Sarabande album. Copeland was in Curved Air and was long-term partner (married ?) to Sonja Kristina. Also along with Sting, they appeared on an album by Eberhard Scheoner. They have many links with Prog, wthout being Prog at all, even though their style of music is quite original and at times complex. |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 06:58
But why are Queen in Prog Related then? Their early work (e.g. Queen II, A Night a the Opera) is quite proggy (?)
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 07:28
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Actually I don't really think Talking Heads should really be here.  
Andy Summers stayed in the US after Kevin Ayers had him fired from Soft Machine (too chicken to do it himself, he asked Wyatt to do it)and he played in the Eric Burdon & New Animals for two albums, before studying music in University. When he did get back in the UK, he was actually hired by the same Kevin Ayers , but I'm not sure there is any recorded testimony of that, but it was circa the Deceiver or Mañana albums, though.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 07:56
| ^ .......after the smack kicked in.........Kevin, Kevin........lost soul....R.I.P. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: May 06 2020 at 10:04
I tend to agree. I don't think either one need to be here though imho some of the other bands in prog related and crossover aren't truly prog either. For instance Bowie....there is another thread on moving him around...but is he really prog rock at all? So,,is PA too inclusive or not inclusive enough...?  Having said that I like The Police, but never really warmed up to The Heads.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 09:24
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I love all five albums by The Police!!! They should not be here if XTC isn't. ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 11:28
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The Police are one of the biggest bands in rock music, they were at the top of the world for years. I think they would be in my Top 10 Bands of all time. Both Andy and Stewart came from progy bands, but I really don't think they created any of The Police music with prog in mind. They don't need to be listed on PA database, in any sub genre. -------------   
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 15:20
Yeah so? We already have Tori Amos. Are you ok with that?And she is under crossover prog no less! Oingo Boingo are on here too(under the same category). There are probably others on here as well but those stick out for me. I say this as someone who likes Tori's music too but then again I like a lot of things that aren't prog. If you stopped after Magazine or Television then fine. After that you just got a bit silly.
 Anyway, for prog related(as others have explained it to me)it's not so much just about lineage but also the sound. The bands I mentioned have very proggish moments. Most of of the ones you mentioned don't. ;) |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 15:28
But it's ok for Tori Amos and Oingo Boingo to be on here?
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Posted By: zeuhl1
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 19:09
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While personally I wouldn't include the Police despite an established prog history that goes deep into the roots of the foundation years of the genre and more recent lps with Fripp, I was a bit gob smacked to see a review of Metallica today? How did a thrash band slip past the goalie? I did buy the Strontium 90 single when it originally came out and bought each Police Lp upon release. But Metallica? |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 19:23
If not for his efforts, I doubt many would have bothered to consider them. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 19:34
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.....And justice for all (even Master of Puppets to an extent) was something of an instigator for the Prog Metal stuff that eventuated afterwards. They did broaden the horizon, but then so did Suffocation..... However, i do find it stretching it somewhat for their inclusion here. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 23:29
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I never had an issue with Metallica for some reason. I was way more annoyed at the inclusion of Queen. The point about XTC not being here then The Police shouldn't be then that's fair. There are bands from that era that have a stronger case for inclusion that The Police. The Stranglers and Magazine as well as XTC are obvious ones.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 08 2020 at 23:45
| I personally don't get the logic sometimes. Ultimately it seems very arbitrary to me. |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 01:02
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I reckon tou have to have at least one track over 20 mins to be proper prog...simple enough rule... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 01:08
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 01:35
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Given the inconsistency of how the definition has been applied for many of the additions in Prog Related, it's hardly surprising that this topic comes up on PA regularly. I've always suspected that the likes of Led Zep, Sabbath, Queen and Deep Purple are here as Max's 'click bait' when the site was in its infancy as an aid to generating more traffic = more advertisers. Reading the sub genre definition today, it betrays in places, signs of a desired solution being worked backwards to arrive at what is hoped will pass off as its equation. For what it's worth, although I adore many of the following artists, I don't believe they belong on PA in any of the existing categories: Talking Heads, Metallica, NIN, Led Zep, Sabbath, Queen, Deep Purple, Roger Glover, John Cale, Japan, Wishbone Ash, 10 CC, the Church, Rainbow. That said, for the site to survive into the future it has to grow, and inclusivity enables that while exclusivity probably hinders that. What I'm also pretty sure about is that most of the current Prog Related stable can be summed up as 'Rock artists that Prog fans like' As far as the OP and the Police are concerned, apart from some of the material on the Synchronicity album I see very little cause to admit them to PA. My favourite classification of music is probably the so-called 'Post Punk' I grew up with but as innovative, prescient and influential as Television, Cure, Talking Heads, the Sound, Banshees, Monochrome Set, PIL, XTC, Devo, Bunnymen, the Fall, Magazine et al were, none of them belong on PA either. The length of the Unreviewed albums list, http://www.progarchives.com/UnreviewedAlbums.asp" rel="nofollow - ------------- 
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 02:10
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Even though they are a very good bands, regardless of track lengths, odd-time signatures, clever instrumentation and whatever cliche is applicable with ‘Prog Rock’ - I find The Pineapple Thief and Radiohead stretching the limit as far as Prog goes. Though this is a Police thread. They did some very impressive stuff, and I’ve never talked to a Progger that doesn’t, at least, like some things they’ve done. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 03:37
Nope, I'm not OK with either TA or OB in X-over.  (didn't know the latter was here at all, FTM)Tori's first few albums were very Kate Bush-like, so I kind of agreed that she could be here in Prog-Related, but the screwed up thing is that the KB-copy is in a more proggy subgenre than the original As for OB (didn't know they were founded in 72), there is not even a link though band members and the ratings are stupidly high (clearly the work of fanboys  ). Since when have they been included?? (I see the first reviews dating from 2013)
It is totally that, of course. But clearly the thinking of: "If X is in, then Y or Z should be in" has always been +/- denied as a logic for PA inclusion. PF was caught in this ill-logic. We analysed the a couple of DCD albums were Prog Folk enough to be worthy of the label, but considering the rest of their discography, certainly not enough to be in PF. So we had asked to have them in Prog-related, which was refused. In restrospect, I think DCD's inclusion is a big mistake. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 04:02
| For all intents and purposes - Kajagoogoo could be Prog Related thanks to Nick Beggs being a hot-shot name in the Prog world, and the band’s experimental electronic piece entitled ‘Introduction’, which would’nt be out of place on any 80’s Prog-Electronic work. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 04:31
Yes, I suppose it could be viewed that way Indeed, M@X's inclusiveness and his will to have dfull discographies included (thus pushing Miles' Kind Of Blue in the DB) was dictated by this click-bait (in french we say "putaclick" - read pute-à-click - whore-click enticing). It's got it pros & cons, attracting attention to the wider public, but also angering the purists. - Sabbath & Purple being here on different grounds (mainly their very early works) I suspect that if the DP entry was called: Deep Purple MkI and entered in proto-prog, it wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. Similarly if Sab's entry only contained the first two albums and Bloody Sab (with Wakeman), it would gain credibility. I know I'm the creator of the latter entry (I was approached by Easy Living and M@X to worry abpout it), but I had the hope that one day the Prog-related sungenre we created, the bands included wouldn't have been listed in the alphabetical order of the DB (having its own separate alphabetical list.
Yup, we agree (and I think that's the same for a vast majority of the members). Most of these controversial additions were clearly done by personal agenda by a single or coupkle of members.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 04:40
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I think you’d find eatly Roxy as ‘Prog’ (really, try to classify their art....) Eno IS a prog artist. I love Japan, and Sylvian, Karn etc... They atre stupendous artists at what the they do. Not ‘Prog’ as most know it to be. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 04:53
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Had to check it out before posting this, but I'm glad Devo (OB's main early musical influence) never got included 
Yes for Eno being here, and there is a slight case for Roxy as long as Eno is in the band (first two albums, but especially FYP), after that they become a toy for Brian Ferry's croonership. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 05:29
| ^ Yes. And Devo, esp. Duty now for the Future should be very related to Prog. I don’t mind if they aren’t, I get it, but they were terrific at this point. Split Enz, as a very valid example, there you go. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 05:35
Well, for Split Enz, there had been a few rejection, but in face of the insistance, I looked into the band's pre-synthpop-new wave albums. I had no idea that they'd made a couple of proggish albums in the mid-70's and a third one +/- in the mould, so as embarrassing as True Clours & Co are, they're stance here is valid.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 05:42
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There’s this genre called ‘Zolo’ ?? I just dion’t get this sh*t.... As for Oingo Boungo - the only couple tunes I’ve heard of theirs is commercial pap.......that and the Simpson’s main tune. Rubbish. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 05:55
Never heard of Zolo either, but I found it on RYM As for their third album, I kind of like it better, because they've gor a Ska slant (I like Madness ), but that's itWhen I listen to their stuff, all I hear is Devo and the future Duran Duran.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 06:03
With Split Enz - sure their first 3 albums qualify as Prog, after all, they had that complex Vaudeville thing happening, and keyboardist Eddie Rayner was in a band playing Yes and Genesis covers in the early 70’s....... This is all good, but swinging back round to The Police, they were real good, but I’m happy if they stay miles away from this amazing site. C |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 13:47
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Zolo is a term I first heard around 1999 or 2000 or so which is right around the time I first rediscovered prog on the internet. It's usually applied to quirky bands like Oingo Boingo, Split Enz, Sparks, XTC, The Tubes, Devo and pretty much any artist or band who doesn't fit into a neat little box but mostly stuff that isn't really full blown prog. I've seen Frank Zappa described as Zolo also. I would say it's pretty similiar to art rock but not quite the same thing. There probably is some overlap though. I heard the term about maybe a year ago or so but before that I hadn't heard it in nearly 20 years. It's not super well known term(even among music fans)but it is apparently a real thing.
I found this online( https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=98978" rel="nofollow - https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=98978 ): I just happened across this strange tag on RYM, which contains several favorites of mine - Cardiacs, Gentle Giant, P-Model, even Moonriders. But what the hell is this genre? Some kind of New Wave/prog/buzzysynth hybrid? What albums fall under this definition? This is how RYM describes it: The term "zolo" was first coined by Terry Sharkie via his "Zany Zolo Muzik Hour" radio show to describe a cross-section of bands and artists with similar approaches to music. Zolo is characterized by hyper, jerky rhythms, synthesized bleeps and boings, polka-dot percussion, chipper falsettos, zany imagery, and a Zappa-esque sense of humor. While Zolo contains elements associated with Progressive Rock or New Wave, Zolo itself is a creative thread that runs independently of both of these genres. |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 14:20
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I would normally count Roxy Music as art rock. The one song that does sound proggy to me in some way is "The Bogus Man". |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 15:17
Thanks for the info but people will insist on putting any old wine in new bottles won't they? -------------
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 16:07
The difference is Roxy Music are on this site(under crossover prog). Many of the bands considered Zolo aren't.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 16:36
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 16:47
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^Frank Zappa doesn't consider Devo to be progressive rock so I guess they aren't. He also doesn't(or should I say didn't)consider Procol Harum or Traffic to be prog rock either. I agree with Devo not being prog but not PH or Traffic(especially not Traffic).
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 16:53
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 17:24
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I say FECK THE POLICE! hehe Somebody start a New Wave Archives and they'd be perfect for there but PA? nah -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 17:31
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For those who are wondering why some bands are in prog related and some are not. It works like this, if a well respected and well connected site member who really knows what he or she is doing and has a long track record of working the system here and getting things done without pissing off too many people and they push hard enough and develop well considered arguments, then there is a slight chance they may get the band on here. Without all the other stuff I mentioned, the band does not stand a chance. These are not rules, this is just what i have observed happen in my time here. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 18:05
No, he said sometimes for the others not for Devo, Traffic or Procol Harum.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 18:14
The Police are not, nor did tyey even want to be...... |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 18:55
I would have thought that the songs on the first two Roxy albums were too straight forward to be considered "prog". The music is clearly progressive, as in innovative, forward thinking and so on, but I think it lies more with the sonic textures (courtesy of Eno) rather than f.e. song structures. Personally I find it a bit difficult to figure out where the line is drawn on this site between prog (as a genre) and rock music that is progressive in one way or another. Before joining this site, I had a much more narrow concept of prog (the likes of Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Rush, King Crimson and so on), and there was no way I would think of f.e. Brian Eno and Kraftwerk in that category. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 20:14
| Yep - the ol’ Prog versus Progressive argument......when will it end ?? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 20:55
Metallica were rejected for Prog Related by the site owner (Max) on 30/05/07 but subsequently added on 13/10/2008 Those with sufficient intestinal fortitude can follow that bun fight here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29489&PID=2928809#2928809" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29489&PID=2928809#2928809 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29489&PID=2996639#2996639" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29489&PID=2996639#2996639 and the re-match here, where all manner of heinous subterfuge, including bun tampering was alleged:  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52554&KW=Metallica&PN=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52554&KW=Metallica&PN=1 It's not a case of 'the Police for PA' but lack of policing for many previous Prog Related additions -------------
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 21:41
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^ I take it you don’t like Metallica then ?? They are my least favourite Thrash band. Megadeth are more Prog than Metallica ever. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 22:05
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^ I'm not a fan but that's not the reason I believe their inclusion in Prog Related, like many other bands who I do like, is at best, dubious. There's no benefit to be gained by dredging up the past as long as we can learn from our mistakes moving forward. -------------
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 22:43
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Scrap the entire ‘Prog Related’ category all together ? When an album rates as 4 stars - excellent addition to any ROCK collection..... Do they really need to be here at all ?? And, yes, I admire many artists in this division. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 09 2020 at 22:50
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^ That would be a welcomed move, but I wouldn't hold my breath there.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 10 2020 at 08:12
This. Great band, but they are not prog and are barely bordering on prog related. Same goes for Talking Heads. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 10 2020 at 08:18
I totally agree. Next thing you know, there'll be calls for the Stranglers to be added to ProgArchives.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 10 2020 at 15:13
So you are disagreeing with Frank? How dare you! I disagree with him too though. PH might be proto prog for the most part but Traffic were prog imo. The police were sort of beyond categorization but maybe new wave or art rock. Anyway, here's how I see it. Most of us on here are big music fans in general and have a knowledge and appreciation for music that goes way beyond prog so we don't need to have certain bands on here just so we can say we like them more. That's just silly. There are many bands on here most of us know(and like) that aren't prog. The Police and the Talking Heads are just two. I'm sure if the Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin and the Doors weren't on here it wouldn't make them any more obscure to most of us either.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 02:15
I'm in complete agreement with you (especially the 'silly' part ) but whether we like it or not, there is a pervasive and stubborn perception out there that Prog Related is tantamount to 'Honorary Prog' status. I'm not sure how we combat this misunderstanding so that moving forward, additions are evaluated under the generally agreed criteria-------------
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 02:56
Have you actually taken a look in what/who's on the list? We'd have to save half to 2/3 of them and send them elsewhere in the DB. I mean some (a lot) of them are indusputably belonging to Prog-Related. 90% of the polemic is from those high-profile additions, the rest is quite OK to me. And I would may be approve of a partial clean-up from those bands (including Tory Amos and Oingo in upper subgenres) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 05:35
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I'd be comfortable with them as Prog Related particularly since I got interested in them with Synchronicity which is their most prog related album. I never went back beyond Zenyatta in adding albums of theirs to my collection. And I kinda agree with Sean that there are a lot of artists in crossover that would be at home in prog related. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 07:01
Yeah, I'd go for that! In all seriousness...I wouldn't ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 08:10
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Oingo Boingo got in solely on their final album, which was a departure from their earlier circus inspired dark humor tracks. The album blends Danny Elfman's orchestral soundtrack experience with even darker lyrics, and replaces the circus with a grotesque sideshow. Progressive? Yes. That album fills the bill. Previouslt, they had smatterings of prog, and even I, a big OB fan, would not have voted yes. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 08:13
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As for the Police, with their pedigree I would think they could be prog-related. But that is not my decision to make. They have maybe 3 or 4 songs that I think could qualify as crossover prog, nothing close to an album. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 09:32
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Not that this was some kind of official discussion to start with, but as a fan of Police personally here's where we stand regarding some questions raised if anyone is interested (feel free to continue in a relaxed tone or devolve this into a general Police appreciation thread otherwise): 1) Unless the admin team gets packed with people who are really into the idea, it's not gonna happen. And the situation at the moment is that there are no chances for Police to get on the site any time soon. 2) We still don't remove artists unless there has been some addition errors (can't really do it cleanly on the technical side either), so unless there is some strong case for it, we're not gonna do anything about it. Also, even for the borderline artists, not everyone would be happy with losing content like reviews. 3) If there is some great desire for a clean-up of misjudged artists, I'd rather be up for downward promotion of already existing bands from a full prog genre to prog related, than outright removal. There were some weird additions but I don't think we're on a slippery slope of any kind, it's just a point of cosmetics at this point. Like for some reason we have Nine Inch Nails in crossover but no one has been suggesting pure industrial rock acts as far as I know.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 10:11
OK, thanks for the specification, since you seem to be the main artisan of their inclusion. I guess it's the same case with Talk Talk being here for thir last two albums, which pioneered Post Rock
 My personal take on The Police is that Outlandos will always be my fave and that Regatta and Zenatta were carbon copies of their debut, and less artiistically successfull. Ghost is a weird thingie, because it's not that much of a Police album (less so than Synchronicity, IMHO). As for the last (and arguably proggier), it's really awfully recorded: sounds like a chicken shack or outdoor latrines. Can't believe that with the money they made with Ghost, they would actually stoop down to such bad sonics. Paghdam should've been fired, IMHO |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 11 2020 at 14:32
| ^ Their riches went up their noses 😂 |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 01:08
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Last night on date night my mrs was playing a carpenters playlist...calling occupants of interplanatary craft...that song is more prog than the police stuff i've heard...and no one is suggesting inclusion of the carpenters as prog related... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 02:10
The original of that cover .... .... is here: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=747" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=747 |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 05:45
easy... listen to the music.. other than being from the same era.. with punk roots they evolved into completely different and different sounding bands. the best comparison to the Police are not the Talking Heads but Asia... pretty much zero prog or art rock musical content.. or much of any influence on modern prog.. but bands made up of musicians with strong ties to older prog bands. Note that Asia were added solely on the strength of those ties.. and were added in the first days of the site unilaterilly by the site owner. and once the site established guidelines for addition... not another band was added to this site based on ties to prog... but additions were musical based.. thus the Police were never added. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 06:45
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I love The Police. I've loved their music ever since I first heard "Message in a Bottle", back in 1979. That being said, the fact I love them does not make them prog, or even related. The fact that all three band members were involved with prog bands at some point of their career had no bearing on the music they produced. If we start adding bands because one or more of their members were involved with prog bands, you know what's next in line? Motorhead . Unfortunately, it seems that here previous affiliations either qualify or disqualify a band/artist for addition. Based merely on MUSIC, The Stranglers have a much stronger case for addition than The Police, but their connections to punk have prevented them from being added to the DB. In my humble opinion, the strongest prog connection The Police have is in the way their sound influenced '80s Rush. Just listen to Reggatta de Blanc and Signals back to back - or even the song "Vital Signs" from Moving Pictures.
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Posted By: Boots
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 06:50
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The Police are not a prog rock band. They are English new wave/ reggae. I have been a fan of theirs for decades. I own all their albums and a few of Sting's solo records. ------------- It's always darkest before the dawn. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 06:57
nobody says they are, they are not suggested for a prog subgenre, but for prog-related. also whoever resurrected this thread -
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 08:29
| Wasn’t me (for once) he he. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 11:54
sheesh man.. who pissed in your corn flakes this morning. The damn thread is only two weeks old.....here.. have a thumbs down yourself  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 12:02
can't wait for that thread.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 12:10
six days of nice an' quiet were good, I'm just tired of the whole "if X is here, then so should Y" logic, there was a newbie that suggested Tears for Fears twice in the same day. But I guess people like these kinds of threads, after all it's got 4 pages already.  "who pissed in your cornflakes?" - kinda gross Micky...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 12:17
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not everyone has been here for years and until 'PA's: The Movie' is released (though it may not happen as my agent told me to hold out for more money from that tightwad f**king M@X and no movie about this site can happen without me i suppose haha) and people finally get the dope on the colorful history of the site we will always see these threads having to explain how additions here once worked here and the criteria we used... and why bands like this were not added.. and yeah.. subtlety has never been a strong suite of mine... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 15:22
Play to your strengths man. You have a flair for self-aggrandizement that even dwarfs that of Trump. If you're looking for a working title for your PA movie try Keyboard Warrior on the Edge of Time -------------
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 18 2020 at 23:53
Capricorn is prog. yep get them in
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 18 2020 at 23:54
HA!
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 19 2020 at 00:52
| ^ It has Mellotron, must be Prog ha ha ! |