softandwet wrote: I was not expecting that lmao

Don't worry, the neo fans will be here soon enough. Just be patient.

softandwet wrote: I am waiting for you...

I don't have to change your mind about anything music related, we all have different taste, like different things.

Why don't you like neo-prog? What have you listened to that made you dislike it?

Maybe you started with the wrong band, wrong album, some godawful stuff, every subgenre has them.

For example I love Marillion, whether it's with Fish or Hogarth and a few other bands, but I haven't discovered a good neo-prog band in years, these days I just listen to the ones I like and I'm glad when a neo band I enjoy releases something new, like Pendragon did recently.

softandwet wrote: I think I don't like Neo Prog because it is way too outdated and has a very 80-90ish sound : too much clearness, a lack of emotion, a digital sound (not an analogic one). This is definitely not my cup of tea for a 70's prog lover as me but the fact is that I don't dislike 80's and 90's music but I like it punk, so the Neo Prog domain is maybe too Pop for me, too clean. I don't know. But I feel like making a mistake when I see the high ratings of Neo Prog albums such as IQ's, Marillion's or Flower King's.

we posted in the same time.

Thanks for explaining why you dislike it.

You are making no mistake, it's perfectly fine not to like it, no harm done.

When did Spock's Beard become neo prog? 

What I understand is that you've been listening to the cliches that started the genre back in the day. Although most of it is really good stuff and I get back to it again and again, I want to be the one to recommend to actually take a look at what's going on at this very moment.

F.E.A.R was the one album that actually made me leave everything and travel to see Marillion live. They're working on a new album as we speak, too, and I'm sure it'll be brilliant.

Gazpacho hasn't released new material in a while, but there's a new album coming very soon, and their latest is amazingly atmospheric. Give it a spin.

If you do want to check out some new stuff, maybe give This Winter Machine a chance? I know they draw a lot from Marillions (etc.) early work, but have a modern touch and some skills, especially in song writing. They released 2 albums within 2 years and are writing a new one as we speak, if I understood correctly.

So forget the ones with best reviews. The albums have been there for a while now for fanboys to bathe them with praise. That's the problem with a niche genre. Sure they're good too, but I'd suggest checking the newer material. Neo is not just the 80's anymore.

Hrychu wrote: Check out Somewhere but Yesterday by Citizen Cain . It's so good that it's not even labeled as Neo Prog on PA.

I gave up on this band, I remember them being a Genesis pastiche.

I'm gonna give them another chance, see how I feel about them now.

I mean, yeah, I think they're fine under crossover, but that's the problem with neo really. It's basically full of old bands that repeat the same songs from the 80's but with a lot of heavy guitar and angst (IQ, Pendragon, Arena, what ever). But if you consider Marillion, after '91 and Holidays in Eden, neoprog, then I think Gazpacho fits in as well as a lot of crossover does. I guess that's why they don't like the term neoprog either.

Man, I used to be a real prog head, but looking at the classifications here, it seems all my bands have been moved to crossover. I'm pretty sure Pure Reason Revolution was neo as well, when their first album came out. That's how I used to find new bands, checking the neo list one by one.

softandwet wrote: Can Phideaux be considered as a Neo Prog band?

no, crossover prog

if you're not sure what neo-prog is, check out the neo-prog page on PA (obviously).

In terms of the new classification, Marillion ceased being a neo band as long ago as the early nineties, certainly with the release of Brave. Their music sweeps a broad spectrum of intelligent rock music, and an earlier post mentioned FEAR. This is exceptional, and as far away from neo as you are likely to get.

Ditto Pendragon. Until the latest, incredible, release, they had moved into far heavier territory with the past four or so releases. The latest one is simply an emotional tour de force.

For consistent sound, IQ have not moved far from their roots, and if you never did like them, recent releases will not change your mind.

The sub-genre classifications in this site are simply far too narrow to provide you with the depth and breadth of most long-standing artists we have. Again, for example, Floyd. They could never be described as a psych band post Meddle, ever.

And there is your problem......Who cares!! Do you like Phideaux? If you do then what is the problem? Why insert a musical category buffer that not many people even consider a genre anymore.

So many people lose out on simply sitting down and listen to music without having to FIRST categorize it, then decide if its worthy of a spin.

Honestly, neo-prog is not a genre of music but a period in time and that period has come and gone. 

I would not say it's gone, otherwise how can anyone explain the rise of Polish neo-prog. Even Riverside were influenced by it earlier in their career, their early albums.

Softandwet... have you listened to any of the recommendations you were given?

I suspect if there is Polish neo-prog, Riverside would know about it. Everything I have read on Riverside and who influenced them always they point to Dream Theater, Rush, Yes, Marillion and a lot of heavy metal like Iron Maiden, Slayer and Black Sabbath. This is what I hear in Riverside's albums, pretty much all of them.

The problem I see with Neo-prog is a large % of bands that got dumped there are no longer there with their new output. So what might be correct to be in Neo-prog is only because of a time frame, neo to me is a forced categorization.

I can follow this rationale much better than the dumping rationale........ie, I Think I'm Going Bald is nothing like The Necromancer.

I spun it twice last night....also thanks to another forum and thread on the album. We discussed the awesomeness of the album and that got me in the same mentality as you.

I think of that album and in the context of their whole catalog, I remain amazed. 

M27Barney wrote: Riverside...now there is a mighty fine band...prog metal if you ask me more prog than metal tho....not neo prog...???

Nobody said Riverside is neo-prog. I said they were influenced by it (big difference) on their early albums, I for one hear Marillion and even IQ on their first 3 albums. That's all.

dougmcauliffe wrote: I'm not super picky when it comes to music but I guess i'm taking a risk anyways. It has a good review from BrufordFreak and hes a reviewer I often find myself agreeing with so I figure eh, what the hell. Also, maybe its silly, but If I actually buy a physical copy I find I am more likely to keep re-listening to it even if I don't initially like it as a way to get my moneys worth. So i'm excited to try this band out!

well, you like Camel, you might enjoy Pendragon's last work.

If its the motorcycle DLC I say 100% go for it

softandwet wrote: I think I don't like Neo Prog because it is way too outdated and has a very 80-90ish sound : too much clearness, a lack of emotion, a digital sound (not an analogic one). This is definitely not my cup of tea for a 70's prog lover as me but the fact is that I don't dislike 80's and 90's music but I like it punk, so the Neo Prog domain is maybe too Pop for me, too clean. I don't know. But I feel like making a mistake when I see the high ratings of Neo Prog albums such as IQ's, Marillion's or Flower King's.

 

the early IQ albums (Tales From The Lush Attic and The Wake) were a bit rough ( not clean and polished as you suggest) and there was also a bit of a punk vibe going on with the band. I can't imagine these 2 albums could be described as 'pop'.

After that it did change certainly and there is more polish to the music.

A lot of people don't like Neo Prog and you have explained some of the reasoning.

For me it works well when the vocals are strong and there is plenty of atmosphere. I don't need music to sound 'rough' but I'm wondering that if you don't like music sounding too 'clean' then how do you get on with a lot of prog rock that was made in the seventies? It's not as if ELP, Yes, Genesis or Tull were particularly punkish in any way shape or form.

M27Barney wrote: Soft and wet....you cannot possibly like DSOTM then...😂

that's off topic

There's a few bands on here who I strongly feel are in the wrong category. One that comes to mind off the top of my head is Echolyn. They are here under symphonic but other than their first two albums that doesn't really apply to them much at all. A better category would be ecelectic or even crossover. 

I guess the key there is "first two albums" I don't know how easy it is for or even a priority with all the new music going on out there for admins to move an artist after they have been put into a category.  Not a criticism but sometimes we all neglect housekeeping heheheheh.  But this is why I try not to get too hung up on the categories.  For some artists it is easier than other.  And after all, wouldn't be boring if all the artists just behaved and stuck to making music that fit their category? 

That's what Logan and I were discussing earlier here. Looking at tracks in some cases rather than whole albums and lumping them into a category.

I've said pretty much all new music that we call prog can be labeled Crossover/Crossover Prog, I also like the label Eclectic.

But one thing I dislike a lot is allowing the label/tag to dictate the music, again what I mentioned earlier to the OP, forget about Neo-prog and just listen to the bands. I think we get lost, we think Echolyn and IQ are trying to create neo-prog music.

I tried out IQ - The Wake for a few minutes on YouTube just before but the sound quality was woeful so I'm currently listening to IQ - Ever. It's not bad. The vocals are sometimes edging to that power metal ballpark that I don't like, but at least it's well-sung. Musically not upsetting at all. Few nice hooks here and there... 

So what to do? Well, we could alter some of the definitions, but that could get really dicey. Take Neo-Prog. I think the definition here is actually very good. It's more exclusionary than Wiki, and that's actually good because it helps you differentiate between bands (and it's not like those bands like Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Echolyn, etc. don't belong to their own categories). I think it would be a better idea to give bands multiple sub-genre labels where applicable. Someone mentioned Echolyn earlier, and how their first two albums could be labeled symph, but the rest eclectic or crossover. And Marillion, the subject of several earlier comments. Were they Neo-Prog at some point? Hell yes! Later on? Crossover for sure. 

This would help for so many bands, including the founding fathers. Early Tull? Prog Folk. Middle Tull? Prog Folk/Symph. Later Tull? Crossover/Prog Related/Folk. It would certainly make the highest rated album sections a lot less confusing. Brave deserves a spot on some sub-genre's highest rated list, but not Neo (in my opinion, not hating on it, I enjoy Brave, and am neither a Neo hater nor a Neo gate keeper).

I don't mean to seem exclusionary. I am in no way saying "_____ doesn't belong in ______ because [reason that is more based on not liking the band despite liking other bands of the sub-genre]." I just think this can clear up confusion. Probably because I'm just pedantic. I realize this kind of stuff isn't easy to just implement on the spot, too.

If you ask me, Haken is a progressive metal band, always been. .

 

So Neo-heads, feel free to recommend me some poppy 80's Neo-Prog!

I also think Deep Purple belongs under Heavy Prog tbh. And Blackstar by David Bowie is a modern prog masterpiece but doesn't get to be compared to the other prog albums which is kinda unfortunate. I mean if Peter Gabriel is Crossover prog I see no reason why Bowie cant be.

Well if you haven't heard Once Around The World by It Bites, that's where you should go next...

Bowie is listed as Prog Related, IMO seems accurate for his catalog in total, but when you read both definitions I think he could fit in Crossover too.

What I always had issue with was some of the descriptions in Prog Related. For example Zeppelin and Iron Maiden.....Prog Related discusses what a band was doing early on and how that was not considered prog but may have been, just the prog label did not exist in the 70's. I think the rock world would agree that Zeppelin was a blues band that played with distortion and heavy drums, not till Graffiti and House/Holy did the lyrics become psychy, but not prog. Iron Maiden in the early days was straight up metal, nothing more nothing less and not prog.....but both are listed as Prog-Related.

To me Marillion early days with Fish was as Neo-prog as it gets, with a lot of pop elements in songs like Kayleigh, Freaks and Lady Nina.....Post Fish 90% of the output has been Crossover or Prog Related.

The Wake was very 'DIY' and does sound like it was recorded in an attic (ironic given the title of their previous album) .

They set up their own studio in the 90's and label (GEP) signing some well known bands such as Threshold and even Spock's Beard! Ever is a much more professional and polished recording compared to anything they did previously although on that side of things I would reckon that The Seventh House is even better so I would go there next or maybe Dark Matter.

I would only get physical with Olivia Newton John.  

See, if we gave sub-genre listings to different periods, or even album to album, we could be more accurate with artists like David Bowie and Peter Gabriel. The first four Gabriel definitely belong in Crossover, but So? Maybe not so much (not a comment on the quality of the record, mind you). Same deal with Bowie's discography. I know it would be pretty difficult to go album by album, so I'm not about to complain that it hasn't happened yet, but there has to be something that can be done at some point. I know the site has undergone changes in the past.

Here's a challenge for you -->  https://www.swsleep.net/spiro-nellecosistema/" rel="nofollow - https://www.swsleep.net/spiro-nellecosistema/

Liquid music from Italy.

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Have you heard Sanguine Hum, The Psychedelic Ensemble, Frost*, Subsignal, or Sylvan?

I love Subsignal, but I'm unsure about their classification of neo-prog.

dougmcauliffe wrote: Recommendation of the new Pendragon album to all, second listen today and I LOVE IT! Is it 5 stars? Ehhhh im not convinced yet, but its awesome! This is coming from someone who has never heard a pendragon album before this.

 

Excellent recommendation I would add IQ Subterranea 

No need to change your mind because I 100% agree with you. I don't get the attraction to it either.

Refreshingly candid post 

And yet when they tour they always gather crowds. 

Have you seen them live, because apparently they are quite popular in the Netherlands.  

There are always Marillion weekends in Holland (and Canada).