UK - UK Discuss
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122138
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Topic: UK - UK Discuss
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Subject: UK - UK Discuss
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 13:28
First UK release with Bruford, Holdsworth, Jobson, Wetton. This album, to me, is perfect. It still sounds fresh, the playing and songwriting... killer. What are your thoughts?
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Replies:
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 14:15
It's a great album. Too bad they couldn't keep that lineup for a while. Imagine what they could have done.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 14:49
Argo2112 wrote:
It's a great album. Too bad they couldn't keep that lineup for a while. Imagine what they could have done. | Bruford's first two solo projects had Holdsworth on them
so half the lineup continued on. And Eddie and John made Danger Money which was quite good. But yeah, no telling what they could have done. Ended all too soon.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 14:59
An excellent anacrusis to Danger Money, which is top 10 for me.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 15:31
Word of the day is anacrusis. DM is excellent also.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 19:37
I heard so much praise towards this album / band that I ended up getting it (and the first live one too), however I ended up rather disappointed. It just won't click with me, I feel the melodies don't really come together, and I just can't get past Wetton's singing (even though I have learned to tolerate them with Crimson). I wonder if the newer live album sounds any better.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 05 2020 at 00:40
I love both their albums. The debut is more fusion based so it took me a while to warm to it but I got their in the end. Still sounds fresh to this day. Danger Money is one of the few examples of a band out 'ELPing' ELP . Carrying No Cross is just imperious keyboard based prog. I also purchased the re-issue of Night and Day. This captures the trio during their Japanese tour and is good fun. I stopped short at buying the stupidly expensive box set though which includes the 90's reunion stuff (again its the trio with Bozzio). Petty that Wetton and Jobson didn't do more together but I guess John decided that 'paying the bills' was the priority over artistic endeavour.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 05 2020 at 01:41
One of my favorite records of all time. It's underrated IMHO because of who is involved relative to their former works, and how "late" this came out. It's a peak in that style IMHO. Prog perfection, overlooked. This is what ELP should have been for me.
In the Dead of Night is one of the most succinct, aggressive, perfectly articulated prog rock epics of all time.
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Posted By: Frankh
Date Posted: February 05 2020 at 02:11
Man, oh man...
When they hit the stage with Alaska / Time To Kill.
Man. Oh, man.
(This is all to indicate how good the memories are. lol)
------------- Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 05 2020 at 05:18
I think Bruford is the best drummer in the world, but on the other hand I havenīt been very interested his music outside Crimson & Yes (and that small period in Genesis). What I read about UK, it havenīt sound very interesting. But I guess I have to listen it some of these days (at least there are great drum playing). Also, I havenīt ever cared about Holdsworth.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 05 2020 at 05:21
Excellent album, I often get back to it. A shame this line up did only one album.
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Posted By: Frankh
Date Posted: February 06 2020 at 03:13
Mortte wrote:
I think Bruford is the best drummer in the world, but on the other hand I havenīt been very interested his music outside Crimson & Yes (and that small period in Genesis) Also, I havenīt ever cared about Holdsworth. |
Do yourself a favor and look into this. The rewards are great and the effort little!
------------- Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know.
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Posted By: hugo1995
Date Posted: February 06 2020 at 12:24
I just don't like the song "In the dead of night" It has a really annoying cheesy passage in it. The guy who does the Prog Rock Dock mixes has included In The Dead of Night on a few mixes and I just can't escape the song.
This bit https://youtu.be/AeXSQl56no8?t=89
No wonder prog died in '78 for a bit :S
------------- interests: Moon Safari, Gilgamesh, Egg, ELP, Soft Machine, Gong, Opeth (Everything pre watershed), Brighteye Brison, The Flower Kings
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 06 2020 at 14:58
Both studio lp's are good...play them from time to time. I especially like In The Dead of Night. Wish the original line up had done both and even a third lp.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 13:27
I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes. I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 15:38
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes. I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
|
I'm from the Boston area, and was born a good 10 years after that debut album came out. Words cannot convey my envy for you on that evening, lol. What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge?
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 17:56
Exceptional record. Danger Money has a better production but the content is about equal on both.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 18:21
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes. I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
| Sounds awesome. I saw Allan several times when he went solo. IOU tour in the 80's. After the show he would have a beer or two at the bar and hang with the fans. He was very humble and never was happy with his performance.
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Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 19:10
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
... What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge? |
Jeez, man! That was 40 years ago! Sorry, I cannot remember...
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 20:05
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
One of my favorite records of all time. It's underrated IMHO because of who is involved relative to their former works, and how "late" this came out. It's a peak in that style IMHO. Prog perfection, overlooked. This is what ELP should have been for me.
In the Dead of Night is one of the most succinct, aggressive, perfectly articulated prog rock epics of all time. |
I fully agree with all you wrote.
Also, I want to add that I find all other "UK" albums to be terribly disappointing--both on their own (i.e. if the UK album never existed) and in comparison to the peak achievement of the debut.
------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 00:59
^ So should ELP have added a guitarist?
Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 01:22
BrufordFreak wrote:
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
One of my favorite records of all time. It's underrated IMHO because of who is involved relative to their former works, and how "late" this came out. It's a peak in that style IMHO. Prog perfection, overlooked. This is what ELP should have been for me.
In the Dead of Night is one of the most succinct, aggressive, perfectly articulated prog rock epics of all time. |
I fully agree with all you wrote.
Also, I want to add that I find all other "UK" albums to be terribly disappointing--both on their own (i.e. if the UK album never existed) and in comparison to the peak achievement of the debut. |
I haven't even made it all the way through Danger Money. It just makes me want to listen to the debut instead LOL.
Atavachron wrote:
Exceptional record. Danger Money has a better production but the content is about equal on both.
|
I've yet to give this one as fair a listen!
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
... What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge? |
Jeez, man! That was 40 years ago! Sorry, I cannot remember... |
SO YOU'RE LYING THEN!!!
I'm just joking. I love the area and know it very well, hence my fan boi ism. It was probably a club that was finished before I came around in '88!
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 09:18
richardh wrote:
^ So should ELP have added a guitarist?
Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll |
Yes..they should have added Hendrix.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 12:25
I love the first LP, they were all in top form. I saw them live at the Riviera Theater in Chicago, July 17, 1978. It was the first time I saw Holdsworth, whom I only heard a few times on some Gong LPs.
We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Wetton was in top form that night, it was always amazing to watch him sing AND play bass as fast as he could!! RIP John.
The entire band smoked as hard as the non-stop cigarette jammed into Holdsworth's guitar neck! You had to see that to understand!
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 14:07
cstack3 wrote:
We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason. | Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.
Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 08 2020 at 23:55
dr wu23 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ So should ELP have added a guitarist?
Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll |
Yes..they should have added Hendrix.
|
Yeah, I guess if that Hendrix thing had actually happened, he might have been a good fit for the band... in a different way than we ever got to know. Also, I remember reading that Emerson always wanted a keyboard driven band for ELP, but if he had wanted a guiter player, it would have been Howe, which I also think might have worked rather nicely (but I prefer he was part of Yes). But yeah, now that you mention it, Holdsworth might have been even a better choice for them.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 09 2020 at 00:59
Hard to imagine Hendrix & Emerson would have been in the same band. The first has so great style of whatīs sounding great and the other...I believe Holdsworth would have been better choice, but then I believe I would have liked ELP at all. But thatīs would be just me, I believe there would have been many others who had been in heaven.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: February 09 2020 at 01:01
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason. | Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.
Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band. |
Allen had a temper. I saw him in a tiny bar in Chicago (Tuts) with his IOU project (Chad Wackerman, Jeff Berlin) and he exploded with rage at some of the electrical problems the band was having. I can't say I blamed him, he had a very complex rig (he called it "mission control") and the hassles were disrupting him.
Also, I had not heard about the "play the solos the same" story, but it is possible. I know that the chemistry was far from perfect and wish UK had replaced Allen for "Danger Money," as I think their sound really needed a guitarist.
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 09 2020 at 02:58
cstack3 wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason. | Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.
Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band. |
Allen had a temper. I saw him in a tiny bar in Chicago (Tuts) with his IOU project (Chad Wackerman, Jeff Berlin) and he exploded with rage at some of the electrical problems the band was having. I can't say I blamed him, he had a very complex rig (he called it "mission control") and the hassles were disrupting him.
Also, I had not heard about the "play the solos the same" story, but it is possible. I know that the chemistry was far from perfect and wish UK had replaced Allen for "Danger Money," as I think their sound really needed a guitarist. |
I've read Holdsworth got hot regarding having to play the same notes the same way. I don't blame him honestly. His magic is his magic. Even Bruford said he could "just tell" when Allen was tracking that Dead of Night solo that was the take he'd use. Pure magic.
My theory is the best bands will always, always have the most unstable chemistry. You get crazy sh*t short term; often better than most bands' entire catalogs...but that's it. In fact, that pattern is prevalent a lot in art. One and done, but the best of the best in the process IMHO!
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 09 2020 at 06:53
UK UK ook ook Back in the day I paired this one up on a cassette with Bruford's One Of A Kind. They pair very well.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: February 09 2020 at 12:59
Slartibartfast wrote:
UK UK ook ook Back in the day I paired this one up on a cassette with Bruford's One Of A Kind. They pair very well. |
I was very glad to have seen both bands in concert, UK on July 17, 1978 and Bruford on July 5, 1980. Your comment is very valid!
Bruford's band featured a former guitar student of Holdsworth, "The Amazing" John Clarke. He truly was excellent, and I wish he had replaced Allen in UK, as there would likely have been less fireworks and the subsequent albums would have been more like the debut.
Bill's bassist was the amazing Jeff Berlin, who isn't mentioned much on PA. The guy was a very decent vocalist and amazing bassist!
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 13 2020 at 19:05
Jeff's a virtuoso. He subbed for Tony Levin when I saw ABWH at the Greek Theatre!
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: February 13 2020 at 20:12
verslibre wrote:
Jeff's a virtuoso. He subbed for Tony Levin when I saw ABWH at the Greek Theatre!
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Yeah, not many players could have pulled that off!
I saw ABWH with Tony and have spoken with friends who saw Jeff Berlin sub, they raved about him! It was a GREAT show!!
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 13 2020 at 22:55
^ Having heard already both the original An Evening of Yes Music by ABWH (with Jeff Berlin) and Live at the NEC (with Tony Levin), I believe I do slightly prefer the sound Tony achived... it kind of had a more personal touch, it did sound sort of more special. Yet, perhaps a highlight for me is Heart of the Sunrise, which even though I do like the original, it has never been one of my very favourites... yet the version on An Evening of Yes Music is my very favourite version of the song, even above the one with Tony Levin on bass.
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 14 2020 at 06:56
Danger Money connects more with me personally but it would have been interesting indeed had they been able to keep the debut album lineup together
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 14 2020 at 10:02
cstack3 wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Jeff's a virtuoso. He subbed for Tony Levin when I saw ABWH at the Greek Theatre!
|
Yeah, not many players could have pulled that off!
I saw ABWH with Tony and have spoken with friends who saw Jeff Berlin sub, they raved about him! It was a GREAT show!! |
The ABWH show was amazing. It was my first time seeing "Yes" live! Wakeman blew me away.
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay
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Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: February 14 2020 at 10:38
^ I saw that ABWH show. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd after Tony got sick & Jeff had to step in. I didn't know who was playing bass I just knew it wasn't Tony Levin because he had hair! I found out later it was Jeff Berlin.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 14 2020 at 12:38
Argo2112 wrote:
^ I saw that ABWH show. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd after Tony got sick & Jeff had to step in. I didn't know who was playing bass I just knew it wasn't Tony Levin because he had hair! I found out later it was Jeff Berlin. |
You were at the Greek Theatre??!!
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay
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Posted By: Spacegod87
Date Posted: February 14 2020 at 23:58
The outro in 'By the light of day' is just phenomenal. Gives me chills every time.
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Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: January 18 2021 at 16:30
Perfect in every way. I cannot express how much I love this. The playing of Holdsworth is just beyond human. Incredible.
------------- "I always say that its about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 18 2021 at 18:02
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
First UK release with Bruford, Holdsworth, Jobson, Wetton. This album, to me, is perfect. It still sounds fresh, the playing and songwriting... killer. What are your thoughts? |
I quite agree. There is just something about the soundscape captured here that is and has always been so magical and unique. I remember the first time I ever listened to it (as a new release in 1978) I felt as if I was being sucked into my own totally unique universe--and what was more amazing, the band somehow maintained it over the course of the whole 47 minutes. I was trapped, immersed, and ever so happy. I think it was Jobson's violin and synthesizer landscapes, the whole thing just works: Holdsworth has never been better, more jaw-dropping yet melodically engaging; Bruford is at his absolute peak, and the others just blend together so well. One of my Top 25 albums of the 20th Century, Top 15 Prog albums.
------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: February 08 2021 at 11:33
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes. I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
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I'm from the Boston area, and was born a good 10 years after that debut album came out. Words cannot convey my envy for you on that evening, lol. What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge? |
According to setlist.fm, U.K. played 3 times in Boston in 1978:
1) July 11 - Paradise Rock Club 2) September 11 - Paradise Rock Club 3) October 7 - Orpheum Theatre
I'm not sure how accurate that is, as I definitely wasn't there at the time.
Also, put me down as one of those who consider the first album in my All-Time Top 10. Danger Money is slightly less great.
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Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: February 08 2021 at 11:40
Bruford was absolutely on a roll at the close of the 1970s.....didn't really get into Earthworks until their latter stuff, but ANYTHING Bruford touched anytime in the 70s turned to gold.
------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 08:31
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes. I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
|
I'm from the Boston area, and was born a good 10 years after that debut album came out. Words cannot convey my envy for you on that evening, lol. What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge? |
I just listened to a recording on YouTube of their concert in Boston, July 11th, 1978 at the Paradise Theater, and that WAS the concert I attended. (https://youtu.be/mo_2SstPCBo). The Paradise just opened a year earlier, and in those days they had table seating -- so it was more like a lounge than a concert venue. Sometime later they remodeled, removed the table seating, made it standing room only, and renamed it to the Paradise Rock Club. At the time, I had just finished school at Wentworth Institute, and was spending my summer working to save money to go to WPI. Wow, brings back memories!
------------- I dont like country music, but I dont mean to denigrate those who do. And for those who like country music, denigrate means to put down.' Bob Newhart
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 14:00
This is typically the sort of supergroup of the late 70's that, as
gifted as they were, did nothing to help the state of affairs of prog
among the weekly press. I, for one, did not care that much about UK and
other groups of that era as they did not have a very fresh approach to
music and it seems that most of those musicians had fewer inspirations
and only seemed interested to do more music as to keep busy and keep the
bucks coming in. Of course this incredible line-up was simply too
good to make a bad album, but by the time in their career, these guys
were not freshmen anymore (most of them were already professional since
the start of decade minimum, so they are seasoned veterans) and this
debut album lacks the enthusiasm of the debut album of a group starting
out with their very first album. UK's debut album has more of a feeling:
"OK, guys!! This group is now together, how can we make an album that
the music industry will carry on (or promote) while the talk of the town
is about three chord rock tunes?" So the best way I can describe this
album is that it is a very professional album, with all the negatives
this can imply regarding the artistic integrity. What strikes
right away is the start of their best-known track, In The Dead Of Night,
the intro borrows heavily from Genesis' Watchers Of The Skies (and this
is no coincidence, right Bill?), even though the rest of the track
shifted onto something else just after. It's obvious that the level of
the musicianship is enormous in this band, but with the lack of fresh
ideas (every passage sounds like someone else), it becomes a bit of a
show-off. The major instrument passage sounds again like a cross of
Supper's Apocalyptic Watcher. If the first track was energetic, despite
sounding borrowed, its alter-ego By The Light Of Day borrows on its
predecessor and crosses it on a Yes-like short track where Anderson
would've let out all of his testosterone to sound Wetton-like
accompanying some disputable Jobson synth sound choices no doubt the
CS-80 from Yamaha, that sounds like Asia and the early 80's.
Holdsworth's guitar sounds are not exactly suiting my eardrums, either.
Presto Vivace sounds like a third grade ELP reprising the lead-off
track. Thirty Years is another Asia preview and easily the worst of this
album. The flipside doesn't fare better, starting with Alaska's
elongated intro preceding the ELP-like main-body. The instrumental track
segues directly into the disastrous Time To Kill, which sounds like
Pre-Asia stuff, partly due to Wetton's way over-mixed (and over-rated)
vocals. A few acoustic arpeggios, sounding like everyone around at the
time, are opening Nevermore, which is butchered instantly by Wetton's
uninspired vocals trying to sound like Caravan (Hastings + Sinclair)
this time; and quickly the track turns into a piano bar fiasco, with
only Holdsworth's guitar to save it from ridicule, Jobson's synth
interventions stinking up the place. Just a pure mess, one that would
only prove right the punk's laughter. The closing Mental Medication
should find a better a third word title in "Needed", because I have no
idea why anyone let Wetton sing out soooooo wrong (let's stay polite).
This track's vocals are so cringing that you can barely listen to the
music itself, first a cross of Yes & ELP, than in its middle
section, the two instrumental passages somewhat raises the overall level
of the album, but not enough to avoid the album from sinking. When
over-professionalism encounters lack of ideas. I am probably
reading too much into this but I thought this deserved to be at least
once said. Don't get me wrong: this is an awesome line-up and the
musicianship is great. If you plan to belt me for only three stars
given, avoid the head and crotch areas
I'll round it up to the upper star out of respect for Bruford and Holsworth.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 15:05
^Three stars ain't bad. Five stars for me. Still love it, and looking forward to the live blu-ray. Machaceck and Minnemann are awesome.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 21:20
Sean Trane wrote:
This is typically the sort of supergroup of the late 70's that, as
gifted as they were, did nothing to help the state of affairs of prog
among the weekly press. I, for one, did not care that much about UK and
other groups of that era as they did not have a very fresh approach to
music and it seems that most of those musicians had fewer inspirations
and only seemed interested to do more music as to keep busy and keep the
bucks coming in. Of course this incredible line-up was simply too
good to make a bad album, but by the time in their career, these guys
were not freshmen anymore (most of them were already professional since
the start of decade minimum, so they are seasoned veterans) and this
debut album lacks the enthusiasm of the debut album of a group starting
out with their very first album. UK's debut album has more of a feeling:
"OK, guys!! This group is now together, how can we make an album that
the music industry will carry on (or promote) while the talk of the town
is about three chord rock tunes?" So the best way I can describe this
album is that it is a very professional album, with all the negatives
this can imply regarding the artistic integrity. What strikes
right away is the start of their best-known track, In The Dead Of Night,
the intro borrows heavily from Genesis' Watchers Of The Skies (and this
is no coincidence, right Bill?), even though the rest of the track
shifted onto something else just after. It's obvious that the level of
the musicianship is enormous in this band, but with the lack of fresh
ideas (every passage sounds like someone else), it becomes a bit of a
show-off. The major instrument passage sounds again like a cross of
Supper's Apocalyptic Watcher. If the first track was energetic, despite
sounding borrowed, its alter-ego By The Light Of Day borrows on its
predecessor and crosses it on a Yes-like short track where Anderson
would've let out all of his testosterone to sound Wetton-like
accompanying some disputable Jobson synth sound choices no doubt the
CS-80 from Yamaha, that sounds like Asia and the early 80's.
Holdsworth's guitar sounds are not exactly suiting my eardrums, either.
Presto Vivace sounds like a third grade ELP reprising the lead-off
track. Thirty Years is another Asia preview and easily the worst of this
album. The flipside doesn't fare better, starting with Alaska's
elongated intro preceding the ELP-like main-body. The instrumental track
segues directly into the disastrous Time To Kill, which sounds like
Pre-Asia stuff, partly due to Wetton's way over-mixed (and over-rated)
vocals. A few acoustic arpeggios, sounding like everyone around at the
time, are opening Nevermore, which is butchered instantly by Wetton's
uninspired vocals trying to sound like Caravan (Hastings + Sinclair)
this time; and quickly the track turns into a piano bar fiasco, with
only Holdsworth's guitar to save it from ridicule, Jobson's synth
interventions stinking up the place. Just a pure mess, one that would
only prove right the punk's laughter. The closing Mental Medication
should find a better a third word title in "Needed", because I have no
idea why anyone let Wetton sing out soooooo wrong (let's stay polite).
This track's vocals are so cringing that you can barely listen to the
music itself, first a cross of Yes & ELP, than in its middle
section, the two instrumental passages somewhat raises the overall level
of the album, but not enough to avoid the album from sinking. When
over-professionalism encounters lack of ideas. I am probably
reading too much into this but I thought this deserved to be at least
once said. Don't get me wrong: this is an awesome line-up and the
musicianship is great. If you plan to belt me for only three stars
given, avoid the head and crotch areas
I'll round it up to the upper star out of respect for Bruford and Holsworth. |
Its the fusion aspect of it that interests me, although you have dissected it expertly to be fair! On the subject of Jobson, he was always an Emerson wannabe but that's probably why I like him. They went further down the ELP road with Danger Money which was nearly as good as anything ELP did. Jobson was and still is an immense talent and you have to be to shadow Emerson. I could also say similar things about Moraz and Fritz.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 08 2023 at 09:48
richardh wrote:
Its the fusion aspect of it that interests me, although you have dissected it expertly to be fair! On the subject of Jobson, he was always an Emerson wannabe but that's probably why I like him. They went further down the ELP road with Danger Money which was nearly as good as anything ELP did. Jobson was and still is an immense talent and you have to be to shadow Emerson. I could also say similar things about Moraz and Fritz. |
I'm convinced Trane has a severe allergy to melody.
But seriously, I don't think Jobson's an Emerson "wannabe." His style sounds like what you'd get if you blended Emerson, Wakeman, van der Linden and Lord together. B&H brought the fusion aspect, as that was their forte; J&W brought the prog. Together, they made great music.
(Fritz, though, I agree.)
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 08 2023 at 18:52
^ It's certainly an interesting album chocked full of ideas if not always that original as Sean Trane suggested. However it could arguably also be too full of ideas and so lacks coherency. Danger Money was more symphonic as J&W added a drummer who was more in 'tune' to what they wanted which perhaps was not so much on the side of fusion. That said I still like the debut but it was always a bit of a mixed affair to my ear with no actual direction.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 08 2023 at 19:38
richardh wrote:
^ It's certainly an interesting album chocked full of ideas if not always that original as Sean Trane suggested. However it could arguably also be too full of ideas and so lacks coherency. Danger Money was more symphonic as J&W added a drummer who was more in 'tune' to what they wanted which perhaps was not so much on the side of fusion. That said I still like the debut but it was always a bit of a mixed affair to my ear with no actual direction. |
Yeah, Danger Money is much more focused. The guys sound much more comfortable playing in a decidedly more rock context. Money is aging better, IMO. Bozzio was the kick in the pants they needed! He can play anything but excels at that kind of stuff (see: Zappa).
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Posted By: alienatarea51
Date Posted: November 28 2023 at 14:07
Reunion - Live In Tokyo , from 2013 is for me their best .
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