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Beatles in two periods

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Topic: Beatles in two periods
Posted By: patrickq
Subject: Beatles in two periods
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 05:58
Choose one event, album, single (etc.) to divide the history of the Beatles into just two meaningful periods.

For example, Period 1: Before George Martin, Period 2: After. Rationale: they were a great live act and would’ve probably had a few hit singles without him, but hooking up with Martin was the turning point in their career.



Replies:
Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 06:00
...but for me, it’s Rubber Soul. Period 1: great pop/rock band. Period 2: greatest pop/rock band.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 06:23
The one event that changed them was the giving up of touring which enabled them to spend more time in the studio.


Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:05
The Beatles can actually be divided into three periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  


Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:14
That's impossible because whatever periodization one might think of with the Beatles, it is the result of many different things.

For instance the transformation from happy dance pop á la "She Loves You" to deeper and more artistic music can not be fixed to one specific event. There are many aspects: Discovering Bob Dylan (1964), cannabis and LSD (1964 and 1965), influence from other forward thinking musicians, exploring avant-garde, new recording techniques etc.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:25
Beatles before "Rubber Soul" and Beatles from "Rubber Soul" on


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:27
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  
That's only 3 and I really don't think you can call Abbey Road "drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism"


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:28
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  

I don't agree with this; the "White Album" is in my opinion the peak of the Beatles, not the usually mentioned "Sergeant Pepper". "Rubber Soul", "Revolver" and "Sergeant Pepper" are all great too though. but the "White Album" is simply superb; it is so extremely diverse

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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:44
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  

I don't agree with this; the "White Album" is in my opinion the peak of the Beatles, not the usually mentioned "Sergeant Pepper". "Rubber Soul", "Revolver" and "Sergeant Pepper" are all great too though. but the "White Album" is simply superb; it is so extremely diverse
I couldn't agree more, although perversely it's a bit like 4 solo albums (or 3 solo albums and a single from Ringo).


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 08:48
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Beatles before "Rubber Soul" and Beatles from "Rubber Soul" on
 

My thoughts also.


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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 09:12
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

The one event that changed them was the giving up of touring which enabled them to spend more time in the studio.
My opinion too.


Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 09:21

[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with this; the "White Album" is in my opinion the peak of the Beatles, not the usually mentioned "Sergeant Pepper". "Rubber Soul", "Revolver" and "Sergeant Pepper" are all great too though. but the "White Album" is simply superb; it is so extremely diverse[/QUOTE]

 
Agreed Jean,  The White Album is my favorite Beatles album as well, some great stuff on it and as you said, very diverse.


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 11:28
Liverpool. The world.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 13:37
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:


Liverpool. The world.
conciseness award!


Posted By: Foxprog
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 13:39
White album is incredible, a true masterpiece!


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 13:40
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Beatles before "Rubber Soul" and Beatles from "Rubber Soul" on

yes, pretty much!
I agree Smile


Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 14:07
Originally posted by patrickq patrickq wrote:

Choose one event, album, single (etc.) to divide the history of the Beatles into just two meaningful periods.
 
I thought most people believed it was Yoko Ono that divided The Beatles.


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https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 14:18
I think Revolver marks the point the Beatles became more experimental & adventurous. I think from that point forward they were a more evolved ground breaking band. 


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 14:25
Pre- and post-Epstein.  (summer '67)

"I knew that we were in trouble then ... I thought, 'We've had it now."
-John

"I don't think they'd have got anywhere without Brian."
-Cynthia

"If anyone was the fifth Beatle, it was Brian."
-Paul


Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 14:31
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  
That's only 3 and I really don't think you can call Abbey Road "drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism"

Sorry, not sure why I typed four.  I have fixed my original post. 

Come Together = Drug Addled Gibberish
Maxwell's Silver Hammer = Even many Beatlemaniacs don't like this one
Octopus's Garden = Silly indulgence, and juvenile at that.  
I Want You (She's So Heavy) = Mind numbingly repetitious, so yes, indulgent.  And what does I Want You have to do with someone being So Heavy?  And who the hell is "she" anyway.  The song is musically interesting enough to hold for about three minutes (like most Beatle songs) but wears out its welcome long before it hits its 7+ total.  As for the lyrics, they're done even sooner.  

Other silliness follows in some of the subsequent songs.  


Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 14:36
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I couldn't agree more, although perversely it's a bit like 4 solo albums (or 3 solo albums and a single from Ringo).

And thanks to the miracle of modern technology, we can treat it as such.  I actually kind of like the George Harrison solo EP contained therein.  


Posted By: judahbenkenobi
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 23:05
Whoever decided to release The Beatles 1962-1965 and The Beatles 1966-1970 answered this question decades ago


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 23:09
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Beatles before "Rubber Soul" and Beatles from "Rubber Soul" on

This. My favorite Beatles year is 1967. Magical Mystery Tour is my favorite album followed by Sgt. Peppers. Revolver is good too. I like the other stuff especially white album but find they were sometimes off the mark a bit.


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 20 2019 at 01:22
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Beatles before "Rubber Soul" and Beatles from "Rubber Soul" on

Before Rubber Soul, John Lennon did imitation Everly Brothers songs while Paul McCartney had a couple of outstanding songs including I Saw her Standing There. Rubber Soul took them into a whole new world until The White Album, when the partnership between Paul McCartney and John Lennon was irretrievably broken and George Harrison came into his own and the three wrote their own music, which they turned into The White Album. Let It Be was bits and pieces while Abby Road was Paul McCartney's swan song as the group called The Beatles, working with George Martin in the studio and using a couple of songs of George Harrison and a couple from John Lennon.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 20 2019 at 05:35
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  
That's only 3 and I really don't think you can call Abbey Road "drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism"

Sorry, not sure why I typed four.  I have fixed my original post. 

Come Together = Drug Addled Gibberish
Maxwell's Silver Hammer = Even many Beatlemaniacs don't like this one
Octopus's Garden = Silly indulgence, and juvenile at that.  
I Want You (She's So Heavy) = Mind numbingly repetitious, so yes, indulgent.  And what does I Want You have to do with someone being So Heavy?  And who the hell is "she" anyway.  The song is musically interesting enough to hold for about three minutes (like most Beatle songs) but wears out its welcome long before it hits its 7+ total.  As for the lyrics, they're done even sooner.  

Other silliness follows in some of the subsequent songs.  
I'll give you Octopus' Garden but we'll have to agree to differ on the others. Read up a bit on Come Together and I Want You ("she" is Yoko and there is a reason behind the lyrics).


Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: June 20 2019 at 09:46
Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

Whoever decided to release The Beatles 1962-1965 and The Beatles 1966-1970 answered this question decades ago
hmmmm.....


Posted By: Prog Loving Deadhead
Date Posted: June 20 2019 at 13:49
That's an easy one!

Before lsd.  After lsd.


Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: June 20 2019 at 18:05
I really like the White Album, but it is not very cohesive. There are some of their best songs ("Blackbird", "Happiness Is A Warm Gun", "Dear Prudence", "I'm So Tired", "Long Long Long" and "Revolution 9" [sic] are probably my favourites), but there are also a lot of mediocre fillers. Plus I still find it very hard to cope with "Obla di Obla da".

On the other hand, it has all kinds of everything on it, and it is almost like a collage. That's probably the most fascinating thing about it. It displays a band breaking up, consisting mainly on what is essentially solo material, so it is, if you like, a great album by accident.


Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: June 21 2019 at 13:03
Thank you everyone to responding to my query!


Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: June 22 2019 at 18:31
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Beatles before "Rubber Soul" and Beatles from "Rubber Soul" on

oh yeah


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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 11:13
Candlestick Park: 1. the end of grueling, thankless tours 2. the beginning of full-time attention to their future recording endeavors

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 16:17
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  
That's only 3 and I really don't think you can call Abbey Road "drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism"

Sorry, not sure why I typed four.  I have fixed my original post. 

Come Together = Drug Addled Gibberish
Maxwell's Silver Hammer = Even many Beatlemaniacs don't like this one
Octopus's Garden = Silly indulgence, and juvenile at that.  
I Want You (She's So Heavy) = Mind numbingly repetitious, so yes, indulgent.  And what does I Want You have to do with someone being So Heavy?  And who the hell is "she" anyway.  The song is musically interesting enough to hold for about three minutes (like most Beatle songs) but wears out its welcome long before it hits its 7+ total.  As for the lyrics, they're done even sooner.  

Other silliness follows in some of the subsequent songs.  
I'll give you Octopus' Garden but we'll have to agree to differ on the others. Read up a bit on Come Together and I Want You ("she" is Yoko and there is a reason behind the lyrics).

Octopus' Garden is a very good funny country pop song.
Maxwell is a weak song but it's not bad
Is "I want you" self indulgent? Yes, luckily!!! Like most of Dylan's masterpieces and prog's masterpieces.

I want you is one of the greatest masterpieces by the Beatles.


-------------
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.


Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 22:06
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  

That's only 3 and I really don't think you can call Abbey Road "drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism"



Sorry, not sure why I typed four.  I have fixed my original post. 

Come Together = Drug Addled Gibberish
Maxwell's Silver Hammer = Even many Beatlemaniacs don't like this one
Octopus's Garden = Silly indulgence, and juvenile at that.  
I Want You (She's So Heavy) = Mind numbingly repetitious, so yes, indulgent.  And what does I Want You have to do with someone being So Heavy?  And who the hell is "she" anyway.  The song is musically interesting enough to hold for about three minutes (like most Beatle songs) but wears out its welcome long before it hits its 7+ total.  As for the lyrics, they're done even sooner.  

Other silliness follows in some of the subsequent songs.  

I'll give you Octopus' Garden but we'll have to agree to differ on the others. Read up a bit on Come Together and I Want You ("she" is Yoko and there is a reason behind the lyrics).



Octopus' Garden is a very good funny country pop song.
Maxwell is a weak song but it's not bad
Is "I want you" self indulgent? Yes, luckily!!! Like most of Dylan's masterpieces and prog's masterpieces.

I want you is one of the greatest masterpieces by the Beatles.


Dylan actually exceeds the fabs in the overrated department.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: June 24 2019 at 22:27
Ah, i thought this was gonna be before the real Paul died and the fake Paul took over LOL

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 25 2019 at 00:13
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Ah, i thought this was gonna be before the real Paul died and the fake Paul took over LOL
 

Ah, the one and only Billy Shears turns up LOL … finally. So Sgt. Pepper was the turning point (Paul allegedly blew his mind out in a car on 9 November 1966).


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Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: June 25 2019 at 00:35
^
So Paul is dead! I always suspected that.


Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: June 25 2019 at 10:15
pre- Rubber Soul
post - Rubber Soul


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 25 2019 at 22:28
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

pre- Rubber Soul
post - Rubber Soul
 

at the risk of being pedantic that would make 3 periods

I think it's well established that Beatles changed from mop top pop group to a serious and often experimental band from Rubber Soul onwards. That's when a lot of bands were becoming inspired and 'rebelling' against record companies to a degree who just wanted a puppet. The Who and The Kinks and even The Rolling Stones (bless) were part of the revolution. The Beatles though were the more pretentious end of this and that can be more easily traced through to their influence on the likes of Robert Fripp and progressive rock.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 26 2019 at 04:34
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

pre- Rubber Soul
post - Rubber Soul
 

at the risk of being pedantic that would make 3 periods
 
LOL


Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: June 27 2019 at 01:12
Originally posted by patrickq patrickq wrote:

...but for me, it’s Rubber Soul. Period 1: great pop/rock band. Period 2: greatest pop/rock band.
 

This^


Posted By: Rogertheshrubber
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 17:14
Or call anything they did "gibberish". It was the end of the 60s. No baroque dreams for flutes floating around.

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I have nothing to say occifer!


Posted By: Rogertheshrubber
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 17:26
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The Beatles can actually be divided into four periods.  

The first dividing line seems to be pretty well agreed upon.  Help -> Rubber Soul.  Where they went from catchy but still simple and unremarkable little ditties/boy band pop songs and emerged into a massive explosion of what could be done in pop music. 

That middle period, comprised of Rubber Soul and Revolver, and to some degree, Sgt. Pepper, was the peak of Beatle awesomenedd before the third and final period, when all that creativity and experimentation went awry, descending into a mix of drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism.  
That's only 3 and I really don't think you can call Abbey Road "drug-addled gibberish, silly indulgence, and mindless hippie escapism"

Sorry, not sure why I typed four.  I have fixed my original post. 

Come Together = Drug Addled Gibberish
Maxwell's Silver Hammer = Even many Beatlemaniacs don't like this one
Octopus's Garden = Silly indulgence, and juvenile at that.  
I Want You (She's So Heavy) = Mind numbingly repetitious, so yes, indulgent.  And what does I Want You have to do with someone being So Heavy?  And who the hell is "she" anyway.  The song is musically interesting enough to hold for about three minutes (like most Beatle songs) but wears out its welcome long before it hits its 7+ total.  As for the lyrics, they're done even sooner.  

Other silliness follows in some of the subsequent songs.  

Thanks for your input Sgt. FridayTongue


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I have nothing to say occifer!


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 17:55
Maybe their meeting with Bob Dylan? Not sure. I would say rubber soul was more or less the dividing line. Not sure whether to include it with later or earlier Beatles since it has elements of both. I'll say rubber soul anyway as the turning point for the band.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 17:56
Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

Whoever decided to release The Beatles 1962-1965 and The Beatles 1966-1970 answered this question decades ago

Oh yes, the red and blue albums respectively. We had those when I was a kid. Two of the best compilation albums ever and you are right they pretty much settle this argument. Wink



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