Which Albums by Rush are real Prog Rock? And Why?
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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Topic: Which Albums by Rush are real Prog Rock? And Why?
Posted By: GrafHaarschnitt
Subject: Which Albums by Rush are real Prog Rock? And Why?
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 11:46
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Just wanna know your opinion. There are several controversial albums. |
Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 14:30
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an opinion? Sure.. gots lots of those. Rush.. of course there are 'controverisal' albums. Rush fan es[ecially here doesn't like being told what others ears have long known... very patchy prog group that really didn't hit their stride until they left prog (along with near everyone else in the late 70's) and got really popular by doing some really neat AOR albums and doing neat MTV videos. no brainer in my opinion. Fly by Night might be a bit iffy to some by to me it is not merely a transition from the Led Zep clone of the debut to the shear awesomeness of their 3rd. It was a prog album.. just not as in your face. And the end.. most will agree.. especially those around these albums were coming out and saw the backlash.... Hemispheres. Permanent Waves pure AOR bliss.... but they did lose many a fan who loved them in their prog incarnation.. to their credit.. they gained far more by leaving prog. Much like Genesis whose real talent was doing pop songs.. not prog... Rush was doing high caliber AOR and not the cheesy* ( but admittedly so loveable  ) prog they did. It wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination (other than a few isolated masterpieceds like By-Tor and The Necormancer) but the one thing you could say about prog Rush.. it was damn fun to listen to while doing bong hits and tried to mimic Geddy's shrieking and laughing at the stupidity of Peart's lyrics haha------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 14:33
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^ Seconded more or less. Much less but seconded. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 14:52
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After a lifetime of appreciating the band, I can just say it.... The first three albums have everything you really need.
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 14:54
| Easy: 2112 to Moving Pictures. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 14:54
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^ big hell yeah to that.. of course others were good.. but those 3 itch the Rush scratch... in fact.. dead air here. Was going to torture Raff with some DAC after my last post.. but CoS it is... Raff owes you one Jim. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 15:40
what's "DAC"? I'm trying to figure it out...
 |
micky wrote:Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 16:58
Boom. Done. CoS was the prelude, Signals was the postlude. But that's indeed their prog "era." ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 16:59
Not this Rush fan. FBN was them cutting back on the runaway mimicry, but that's about it. Till the next album!  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: ForestFriend
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 17:16
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I'd probably say from Fly By Night to Hold Your Fire, then Snakes And Arrows and Clockwork Angels. I
can't agree that Moving Pictures is their last prog album - Signals is
stylistically very close. I think the only thing MP has the Signals
doesn't have is a song over 10 minutes long. There's no way that a song
like Losing It isn't prog. As far as Caress
of Steel to Hemispheres - that's certainly their Dungeons and Dragons
phase, and certainly the overtly "prog" elements of their music - nerdy
fantasy/sci-fi lyrics, extended songs with long instrumental sections,
etc. - started to fade away after that, but they still kept a lot of
subtle prog elements. Lots of time signature changes, a focus on
creating instrumental interest, unusual chords and song structures, and most Rush albums starting from
around Grace Under Pressure are concept albums - not rock operas with a
storyline, mind you, but all based lyrically around a
central concept. ------------- https://borealkinship.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My prog band - Boreal Kinship |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 21 2018 at 18:18
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This is too easy: A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres. The trio threw away all the trappings of what they thought was typical prog and came up with some doozies that actually was the real thing. Then they moved on, sadly. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 01:55
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Like Micky's first post
you'd have to include Caress in there as well, though. Even if you don't like it I'd say 2112 to Hemispheres... Outside Natural Science and CameraEye, I don't hear much prog in their respective albums (Jacob being a boring crescendo based on a bolero and XYZ , which suffers from La Villa's existence))
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 03:04
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A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres are the only two real prog albums by Rush IMO. You could argue a case for 2112, I guess. Hemipshers is my favourite Rush album, but close behind would be Permeneant Waves and Moving Pictures which are kind of prog related. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 04:13
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Not an easy question to answer. Fly by Night to Hemispheres period for me is "prog"(-ish, in the case of Fly by Night), but not very progressive, while the Permanent Waves to Hold Your Fire period (escpecially from Signals on) is not very "prog", but much more progressive to my ears. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 12:28
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I'd say from Caress of Steel to Signals. With CoS they started to make 10+ minute songs and after Signals there were hardly any odd time signatures. ------------- 
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 13:33
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As a band I am glad they did not stick to "prog rock", they actually progressed into other music styles. And as a listener/fan you have to not be stuck in the "prog" mentality to understand Rush's music as well as say Genesis. Prog is in their genes but is not all that they are.....As far as which albums I think everyone is on the same page. -------------   
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 15:23
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Hi, Nice band, but I do NOT listen to them for "prog" or "progressive". I listen to them because it is outstanding material and very well defined and put together. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 16:33
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If you plotted their perceived 'progginess' as a histogram, it would very much follow the classic, 'normal distribution' bell-shaped curve for much of their career. By-Tor' got things going on Fly By Night, and that style was built upon with Caress of Steel. The 2112 suite brought it up a notch more, followed by the more intricate and diverse A Farewell to Kings - Xanadu the obvious example. The wonderful Hemispheres was their prog peak for me, especially Side 1 and La Villa Strangiato. Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures maintained some of that, but by Signals that prog ambience was starting to fade, with maybe only Subdivisions providing an echo of those earlier days. After that, the style changed significantly and prog took a back seat, even though there were still gems to be found. Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels did provide a return to aspects of prog, as a coda to their career, although more on particular tracks than the whole album. I'll concur with earlier comments regarding Rush not being considered 'prog' by many of us at the time we were discovering them, compared to the likes of the Big Six, and only retrospectively did that prog link show more. They were a complex and intelligent, long-format rock trio that countered the more traditional rock bands of the time, and they were a refreshing change to the rather tired styles of many classic rock bands in the late 70s for many of us. ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 21:55
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In my opinion I would say the following: Caress of Steel 2112 (side 1 especially with side two being more art rock/hard rock) A Farewell to Kings Hemispheres Permanent Waves Moving Pictures Signals has pretty strong prog tendencies too and the other albums from the rest of the eighties do to some degree also(ok, maybe not so much Presto) but I don't feel they are as full on prog as the ones I listed above.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 21:58
Yep. This works for me even though signals seems to have strong new wave tendencies as well.
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 22 2018 at 23:29
THIS! AND THE ASSERTION THAT GENESIS GOT BETTER AFTER W&W IS THE MOST LUDICROUS STATEMENT EVER MADE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. Micky is Donald Trump nailed on.... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 23 2018 at 02:24
please stop using all caps. Are you screaming at us? All caps post are aggressive. So you disagree with someone, what's the big deal? So someone likes the trio Genesis more. I disagree as well.But there's no need to get all caps angry, throw insults etc. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: November 23 2018 at 02:28
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2112 and Moving Pictures. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: November 23 2018 at 14:53
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Mickey mouse dishes it out so he gets it back in spades...anybody who disagrees with him is a troll...I felt like shouting a bit...catharsis and all that... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 24 2018 at 14:57
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Am I the only person on PA who is not totally in love with Rush? I mean, they've done some good to near-great music, but Lifeson wasn't in the same league as Fripp, Howe, Hackett etc. Also, Geddy Lee's voice can really be irritating. What is it that I am missing? I see no beauty in their music, unlike Yes, King Crimson, Genesis etc. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 24 2018 at 15:41
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They're definitely not for everyone. Seems you either love Rush or you don't. I have the same issue with Porcupine Tree. I just can't get into 'em. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 24 2018 at 16:22
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The beginning seems easy: Caress of Steel. Fly by Night had the inklings of something special, and I f**king love that album, but it's not quite there yet. The end is much harder and is intertwined in the endless, unresolved, "what is prog rock?" discussion. In the most conservative sense, I'd say their last prog rock album was Hemispheres.
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Posted By: GrafHaarschnitt
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 07:30
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I don´t see the problem. He obviously isn´t serious about it xD. Edit: That was about cristis post. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 10:56
Nope. There's several on here that are not big fans. I'm sure you can find at least a few who don't like each of the big bands(Yes, Floyd, Genesis, KC, ELP, JT)and some who don't like the next bands up such as Camel, VDGG, GG, Moody Blues, Kansas etc.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 12:38
You don't have to be totally in love with any band. You confirm Rush has done good to near great music, to me that is more than enough to like a band a lot. Whether Lifeson was in the same league as those mentioned is subjective. I've never been a huge fan of Fripp or Howe, Hackett is better than all of them. Geddy's voice issue is a long in the tooth discussion, growing up I never had any issue with it and I suspect most of the prog/hard rock world does not either. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the 3 you mention made magical music before Rush came into their own. Those bands are influences to Rush members and Rush music, that's all. I don't think you are missing anything other than you may not enjoy harder prog or Zeppelin styled prog rock, at least in the early years.... -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 12:59
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Rush definitely invited super fandom for many reasons. I was never a big fan until I saw them live. Suddenly you're in with thousands of Rush fanatics while the band plays their heart out. Very infectious stuff. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 13:17
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 13:26
… an The Garden from Clockwork Angels (and IMO, many others). There is tremendous beauty in many of the lyrics as well, which may be hard for some to hear if they are put off by Geddy's voice.
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 13:43
It's well known around here that Barney is an angry, agressive a****le. No problem for me saying it since I'm not really serious about it. ------------- |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 14:56
| Wow, anyone who complains about Geddy's voice needs to hear Pavlov's Dog or Budgie. You will then appreciate Geddy. :D |
Posted By: grantman
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 17:29
| Caress of steel,farewell to kings and hemispheres, that,s prog or progressive rock these 3 are the gems |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 17:52
Uh, Roll The Bones  Now there's the prog rap song that somebody out there really wanted  -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 23:10
Well said! I've enjoyed some of their music over the years, but I just don't seek it out. They have done an amazing job as a 3 piece, and Geddy's ability to sing/play bass and also bring synth into the mix is very impressive. However, I don't find them as progressive as their peers like Yes, KC or Genesis in terms of composition or musical talent. I view them as more of an arena oriented rock band. They can be fun, I saw them on a tiny stage just after their second LP came out in the 1970s! Most of the bands I played in back then covered "Working Man" because it was fairly easy to play and was a good song. It's all good, believe me! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 02:47
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Rush are an enigma. They've been a prog rock band, they've been a rock and roll band, and they've been an 80's arena power rock trio. Fair paly to them. If they'd still been making albums like Hemispheres by the end of the 80's tey would have died a death commercially, and just a few thousands nerds in anoraks would still be following them. They managed to transition to a credible 80's sound, without dumbing down and selling out, like Genesis did, which has got to count for something. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 11:21
Bingo. Rush did that with far greater success than Saga managed to when the latter went full-blast pop with Behaviour and Wildest Dreams, and then attempted to regroup (somewhat) with Beginner's Guide to Throwing Shapes. Rush managed to hold on to both their hard rock base (well, some of it) and the prog fans with Moving Pictures, Signals and Grace Under Pressure. But they just had great songs. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 11:47
It's always all good!  See I don't think you can compare Yes, KC or Genesis to Rush music. KC was so huge into jazz/fusion base, they are on their own. Yes and Genesis had so much symphonic base/core to their music that the end results were different. Rush had more of a PF/psych core than symphonic and zero jazz fusion, throw in distorted guitars and huge drumming with lyrics and stories from books and you have Rush. Today Rush music is just that, Rush music...but I disagree on their musical talent, they are monster musicians making music like there are 5 of them. -------------
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 13:37
We all have bands that we KNOW we should like...but don't. For me it's a really long list: Harmonium, Ange, Magma, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Saga, Caravan, etc. Thank God we're all different!!!
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 14:28
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The late Chris Squire was once intimidated by a Geddy Lee animatronic figure, "Geddy Leap!" ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 14:32
Never associated Rush with Floyd (except maybe "The Twilight Zone" and other odds 'n sods). Rush was definitely the b*****d child of Cream and Zeppelin, with The Who and ELP being the godparents.
Absolutely. Neil's probably inspired more kids to pick up the sticks than any other rock drummer (jazz is a different ballpark). Same for Gedd. He's responsible for the creation of umpteen bassists. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 14:33
Yeah, but how did they fare with "Big Money"? That bassline is a b*tch! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 14:48
...and there in lies my point, Rush music is simply Rush music. I guess to me, they are more like PF even if just a smidge, but that smidge is much bigger than say Yes or KC and Genesis. PF more space art rock, closer to me what Rush was at one point......but Rush then progressed to other forms and created even more magic in the studio. -------------
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 15:06
Word. (Thumbs-Up emoji is misbehavin'.) ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 15:16
^ That reminds me of what Gene Simmons said in the Rush documentary: "What kind of band is Rush? Rush is Rush." 
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 27 2018 at 01:10
Ahhh yes I remember that, I think he said "What kind of band is Rush? It's Rush.....", but we r on same page. I think that is a main reason why people don't get it, they try to categorize it first, then listen with a predisposition and simply say "that's not prog, its just rock or AOR", cra-cra if u ask me. The last Rush album was littered with prog from start to finish. But again, as a Rush listener IDC if some people think they are not prog......It is still amazing, brilliant music that will stand the test of time easily, their mark on the world of rock music is massive, as they continue to be the biggest cult band ever. -------------
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 27 2018 at 06:52
Very true. For me the two that lately I've been trying are Enchant and North Atlantic Oscillation and other than a couple songs from each band, I just can't get into them...but somehow I feel like I should be into them. It's weird
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Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: November 27 2018 at 08:07
Oh man, That's too funny!!
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 27 2018 at 08:34
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I would say Rush's prog full on prog period is Caress of Steel through Hemispheres. Fly By Night is a transitional album and Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures and Signals all contain prog elements. Some of the later stuff does as well but if you want their "pure prog period", I'd say CoS through Hemi.
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 03:44
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I don't think you can really compare Genesis,King Crimson and Yes with Rush. Those bands are the first wave of "Prog" and they put out their best material before Rush even released anything. You have to remember that things in Canada and the US were different from the UK. Those bands had the luxury to do whatever the hell they wanted to a degree. Rush didn't, they worked for it and earned their keep. They also barely put out their 1st album in 1974.To me, Rush kept the "prog" alive after those bands fell from grace or disbanded and they turned many to those other bands (such as myself). As for Rush being "Prog?" You have to ask yourself What is "Prog" really?? Personally, I think it's both a distinct genre but it's also an ethos of wanting to move your music forward which to me is something they always did since Neil joined them. Which Rush albums are Prog? I say all with Neil Peart (Fly by Night - Clockwork Angels). Whether you consider Prog as a distinct genre and/or an ethos of wanting to move your music forward. Rush has always been Prog. Let me give reasons for this After the Hemispheres, they continued to experiment with sounds they never used before(electronica, reggae, ska, new wave and numerous other sounds). All that before Yes or King Crimson ever did anything to that degree, they were one of the first bands to do this in a rock context. That's pretty damn "prog" if you ask me. After that they continued to experiment with sounds such as a prog rap (Roll the Bones) and true 80s prog with albums like Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire and even after that. Who else was doing this kind of music? Because I can't think of any other band. Anyway, to me they've always been "prog" ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 04:09
Lol no, many on here despise Rush. ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 05:56
However embarrasingly bad Caress Of Steel is, it's still a prog album.... and TBH, I don't find much prog in PW and MP.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 07:58
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Caress of Steel - Half prog half rock(hard rock) 2112- Half prog half rock(hard rock) A Farewell to Kings- prog Hemispheres- prog Permanent Waves- prog(other added influences permeate throughout though such as new wave, reggae and hard rock) Moving Pictures-prog (ditto above) Signals- mixture of prog and new wave sounds The ones that are the most traditional prog sounding are A farewell to kings and Hemispheres but the two after it are still very much prog albums. Starting with Signals and also Grace Under Pressure they added new wave elements. After that they moved further away from prog but still had their own sound and didn't sound like other bands of the time.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 08:26
This pretty much nails it. Sure there were prog leanings on Caress of Steel but the album as a whole wasn't prog. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 13:25
That works for me as well...though in the old days...I never really thought of them as prog at all....they were Rush . I didn't think of them as prog until I found this place. ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 07 2019 at 14:44
What about 2112 then? Side two just sounds mostly like regular rock/hard rock to me. Not much prog on side two at all except for maybe the mellotron on tears.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 00:26
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at heart they were a hard rock band and that has been made clear by Lifeson. I think while they were experimenting with technology then they wee at least borderline prog. By Test For Echo there is no trace of prog although I still like what they are doing. The last album Clockwork Angels had some ambitious ideas and was arguably their only borderline prog album after about Presto but it's a bit weak unfortunately.
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Posted By: progROCKS123
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 21:07
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even in the 1980s rush was still a prog band
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Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 18:05
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One of my favorite bands, but I have always thought of them as more proggy than hard-core prog. Fly by Night through Moving Pictures feature their proggy material. I have a soft spot for Prince By-Tor because a snow dog is my constant companion. I feel they lost direction, which made their catalog really spotty after Moving Pictures. Some of the later concert videos are great, though. |
Posted By: SambaTisst
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 00:23
| 2112 (at least side A), a farewell to kings and hemispheres, great trilogy! |
Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 00:39
Who says music always has to be "beautiful"? ------------- Take me down, to the underground Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 00:57
I don't think of "beauty" when I think of King crimson. They have more experimental, quirky songs than they have beautiful songs. I also don't think of "beauty" about the Rush sound either.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 01:10
| 'beauty' is an interesting concept when talking about music. Rush were a hard rock band who soaked up a lot of prog influences. Geddy's voice certainly was a tad annoying in the seventies and that's one reason I think their most elegant and beautiful tracks came in the 80's - Analog Kid and Subdivisions especially. In the seventies it was more about how fast could Peart play and how screechy Geddy could get but you still had some sublime prog moments, Xanadu springs to mind as well as La Villa Strangiato. Always worth noting that Rush became massively popular during a period when prog had all but been but wiped off the map. They were the only show in town for most of us! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 09:20
Hi, And not just prog influences I would imagine. I don't want to sit here and decide if band A or B or R ... belong to "Prog Rock or not. I really find it somewhat insulting, since most "artists" do their work for how they feel, not because it is this or that ... and the compositions came alive. I doubt, and I'm not sure that Geddy Lee would sit here and say "we're progressive rock" ... and then make us wonder what all this fuss is about. One of the grand ones, Mr. Robert Fripp has stated many times that he is not "progressive" and neither is his band ... and where is he and the band classified? In too many ways, he is about the composition and the expression of that composition broken down and rehearsed to a superlative point where it is way beyond the level of most cheap rock music that can only work off a riff and not develop the music from it, beyond the refrains that the audience recognizes and "remembers" about that song! And you and I know that KC has never been about that! And guess what ... we can remember many moments and I even cry when hearing "Starless and Bible Black" ... just some moments beyond time ... that makes the word and meaning totally worthless and wasteful. This is the best I can say about all this ... it's tough ... I feel bad for a band like RUSH that did so much fine work for so long, and some folks still have to "question" it's place within the musical halls of heaven. Gosh knows they deserve it and then some! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 15:09
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Caress of Steel up to and including Hold Your Fire. On Fly by night only by tor and the snowdog is prog. On stuff after HYF only leave that thing alone and where's my thing and maybe monkey business and one or two other instrumentals. All my opinion of course.
I changed my mind about this because you can't call Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, ATTWT and Duke prog or 80s Yes and not the 80s Rush. If songs don't have to be complicated and have time signatures then there's no reason why that stuff can't be prog (and Pink Floyd too ;) ).
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 16:25
....you all are hosers... -------------
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 17:41
Being a Rush fan for just over 40 years and reading and listening to countless interviews, they hardly lost direction. They've always been very clear that they made exactly the kind of music they wanted to make. It wasn't always a success but they did it their way. Usually, the people who don't like their 80s stuff are the ones who make claims about them losing direction or some such excuse. Just like Yes and King Crimson and Genesis changed with the 80s, so did Rush. ------------- We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain. My face IS a maserati |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 18:47
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The Rush debut album was a hard rock one. Then, after Neil Peart joined, their next two records, Fly By Night and Caress Of Steel are what I would call "borderline progressive" -leaning towards prog, but not full blown yet. Then came 2112, which was the real mccoy! I consider all their later material to be progressive rock, even though I don't personally like any of their albums after Moving Pictures, but not because they weren't prog rock, but the later "style" of their music never appealed to me. Why are most of their albums progressive? Because after Neil Peart joined, they were a band that never shied away from complexity and intricasy in their music.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 14 2022 at 23:43
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Rush and Fly by Night aren't prog, not in the slightest. But they don't have to be. Grace Under Pressure is my favorite Rush album. I don't care what it is. It's just awesome.  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 07:19
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Never thought of Rush as a prog band. Love their first three heavy rock albums, in the same way and to the same extent that I love Uriah Heep, Wishbone Ash and Deep Purple. Then 2112 and Hemispheres. Nothing else. I grew up in Ireland and London in the 60s and 70s, so my prog was there on the radio from day one and it didn't include Rush. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 11:50
Hi, It's much easier to do, when you have a drummer that can do a heck of a lot more than just keeping time ... they work on making sure they can augment the moments in the music, and that can not be done when the high schoolish drummer can only do the same beat and timing. That's about 50% of all the "progressive" bands, btw, when everything is "progressive" and the drumming is elementary, and sophomoric! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 12:30
By-Tor and the Snow Dog isn't prog?
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Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 13:10
| None are prog, nevertheless lot are top ! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 14:32
About as prog as Triumph's "Blinding Light Show/Moonchild" (8:43) and "The City" (9:20). ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 14:37
That makes those songs a little bit prog, at least to me. ------------- We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain. My face IS a maserati |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 14:56
| The correct answer, if you aren't the Prog Police, are the ones you choose. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 15:00
I love both bands, though they each have at least one album I can't listen to all the way through. Too bad Trumph's flame went out so early. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 15:04
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You can’t even agree on the definition of “prog”, which makes it difficult to answer the question. Music is not black and white where every single album can be deemed either prog or not. It’s all a mix of inspirations and talent. I’m also amused at the topic title, asking for “real prog”. Certainly prog police work. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 15:10
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"What is Prog?"
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 15:24
It's like we're back in 2008 PA again ------------- Take me down, to the underground Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 15:25
is prog what?
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 15 2022 at 16:55
I miss Queen ByTor and SnowDog.......  -------------
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Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: November 16 2022 at 00:41
Either way it’s? ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: November 16 2022 at 12:58
I second everything you wrote. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 16 2022 at 13:06
Silly me, I've just noticed the "real prog rock" in the title. As opposed to false or fake prog rock everywhere, right? TBH I dislike it (to put tit gently) when anyone puts words like "real" or 'true" in front of genres, i.e. "true metal" and 'true prog" and so on. Maybe I'm not getting something here... oh well...
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 16 2022 at 13:09
Death to False Prog!!  All Men Play On 9/8
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 16 2022 at 13:23
| I actually don't disagree with the 2112 to MP opinion (although is side two of 2112 really prog?) but my personal (subjective) defintion of prog stretches a bit beyond MP. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 16 2022 at 13:26
I agree but maybe not Presto. Anything in the 80s before it though.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 17 2022 at 00:27
exactly 5.75% of the music on this site is real prog rock. After that you have the fake prog represented by 80's King Crimson and Peter Gabriel entire solo career plus the AOR crap that no one cares about and the weird stuff that strange human like persons think is important. <runs and hides>
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 17 2022 at 00:30
who said that AOR is real prog? what's a "strange human like person"?
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Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: November 17 2022 at 00:34
Now now children remember one man’s prog isn’t necessarily another man’s prog? ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: TexasKing
Date Posted: January 31 2024 at 09:20
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Rush is much less PROG than Yes, Genesis and King Crimson but much more prog than Pink Floyd. My observation on the progness of Rush output: Fly by Night - not a prog album, only By-Tor is prog Caress of Steel - half prog (two epics are prog) 2112 - half prog (a side two is not prog but standard rock) A Farewell to Kings - mostly prog (Closer to the heart and Madrigal are not prog songs) Hemispheres - pure prog Permanent Waves - partially prog (Jacob's ladder and Natural science are prog) Moving Pictures - mostly AOR, two prog songs (The Camera Eye and YYZ) Synth-era albums have some proggy moments but they are not really prog. Snakes & arrows and Clockwork angels have some proggy songs, but they're not real prog. None of their albums inbetween are prog or even proggy.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 31 2024 at 09:26
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^Come on. Madrigal is more of a prog song than Cinderella Man. It seems that maybe you have fallen into the trap that many people have which is thinking that a song has to be complex to be prog.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 31 2024 at 09:39
Nitpicking like this, I can list songs that are not prog from all the prog-greats.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 31 2024 at 11:09
| ^Maybe "more fool me" isn't a prog song but imo "I know what I like" qualifies. I stand by what I said. I remember asking a guy at a prog festival if he thought "wonderous stories" and IKWIL are prog and he said they were. I suppose we can all argue until the cows come home as to whether they or other songs are prog. I guess it ultimately it depends on our own interpretation and opinion on what makes something prog. |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: January 31 2024 at 11:20
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Sometimes the cows don't come home. Sometimes they go over to the neighbors because they have pizza. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: January 31 2024 at 11:37
Rush's progginess or lack of.... has there been any other subject that has been discussed as much on this site over the past 20 years? I'm sure it would make an excellent doctoral thesis..  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |