Is it just me?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112107
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 12:51
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Topic: Is it just me?
Posted By: condor
Subject: Is it just me?
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 16:49
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Or is Fragile infinitely more inventive and dramatic than CTTE? Also, why is quality the ultimate value when comparing albums? Fragile isn't as good, but is miles more interesting.
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Replies:
Posted By: mlkpad14
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 17:08
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Personally, I have never been too big on Fragile. CTTE is way more experimental and interesting in my opinion. It is fun to listen to whenever I am in the mood for it. Quality is not the ultimate value when comparing albums. The whole entire avant-garde and experimental movements favor the "interesting" ones way more. The other day I heard the post-rock album Spiderland (by Slint), for the very first time. That album was so interesting, and I definitely was not paying attention to its quality the first time I listened to it. Later on, I realized just how good the quality was as well, but well, that was besides the point. That being said, quality has to be there. It would be irritating if musicians decided to record drums through the "voice recording" option on GarageBand (it produces a very scratchy sound that does not exactly resonate with the ear.) ------------- https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/ |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 17:15
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While CttE is more polished and perfect, flows amazingly well, I have always felt way more connected to Fragile. The individuals, all, shine so well on all of the songs, not just the "solo" compositions. And there are many more "peak" moments on Fragile than on CttE (though there are also more lows). I have always rated and favored Fragile more highly. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 18:01
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CttE...well, I've never been a fan of Siberian Khatru so that's always kept it from being a 5 star equal to Tales & Relayer for me. As far as Fragile goes, I think the solo pieces drag it down a bit and sound somehow out of place, so it's never been my fave Yes album either. If only Khatru were on Fragile and Heart of the Sunrise were on CttE  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 19:38
| I think both albums are quite different, but equally good an important. Fragile was first, and was the last step before the most creative, classic, progressive period of yes' music. CTTE was the first full album of that period, and it was an amazing era not only for Yes, but for progressive music in general, but without Fragile taking them into that direction, it would have never happened. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 19:58
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Big Generator blows the both of their asses out of the water. LOVE WILL FIND AWAY rules!!!! -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 21:16
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Is it just me or is The Yes Album better than either one? It shouldn't be. There's no Wakeman or Roger Dean. In fact the cover is pretty lame. But it was the first one I heard and it occupies that same sweet spot in my memory as Aqualung and Dark Side. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 22:54
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BrufordFreak wrote:Posted By: Frankh
Date Posted: October 13 2017 at 23:48
The Yes Album ends up almost being their mission statement. There's a palpable purity of purpose there that may never have appeared as intensely again. Also, Fragile may be more interesting, yes. Less passionate! Not that it was sans passion: Heart Of The Sunrise. And also not that Close To The Edge was entirely lacking technically interesting material: The Solid Time Of Change, essentially a structured jam managed to be both passionate and challenging to the listener. Do not sell Siberian Khatru short. Not just a rocker, "the" actual rocker on the album; the continuous morphing of the song from one place to another, one thing to another is something Yes tried to do many times in the course of their career(s) with varied but seldom as great success. This gives it the gravitas somehow to be a grand classic album's suitable and worthy conclusion. |
Posted By: Zeptember
Date Posted: October 14 2017 at 04:39
Well we ended up with Topographic Drama - Live Across America |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: October 14 2017 at 08:37
| If it were "The Yes Album" and not "Fragile" you were talking about then I'd think you would have more of a discussable argument. But "Fragile" vs CTTE then CTTE wins on all categories imo. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 14 2017 at 09:35
| The group tracks on Fragile are as good as or better than anything on CttE, but the solo stuff is decent filler at best. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 14 2017 at 16:24
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Without the jarring reprise of Jon Anderson's awful drivel at the end of Heart of the Sunrise I think it'd be competitive and some of the solo pieces are just a little light. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 14 2017 at 17:07
That about sums it up for me also.....the group tracks are equal to the material on Close but those annoying little solo inserts ruin the flow of the album for me. So CTTE rules of the two ....I even like The Yes Album over Fragile if I were forced to choose. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: October 14 2017 at 18:50
I agree Drew and Tom. Fragile to me "sounds" better as well although YES has such a great guy working with them in Eddie Orford that all their classic stuff sounds amazing. Of course this is all a matter of personal taste and I have given both 5 stars but "Fragile" is my favourite from them. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: October 16 2017 at 02:15
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I would give both Fragile and CttE 5 stars when it comes to rating. I've had CttE on top of my list for decades until this day. Fragile has South Side of the Sky, Heart of the Sunrise and Roundabout. But I would not call all the solo tracks "decent filler at best". Mood for a Day is more or less on par with any Yes epic, Schindleria P. is developed to the full on Yessongs and I find We Have Heaven rather charming, I can't help it.
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 16 2017 at 09:16
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Simply put (by a simpleton), CTTE was a masterpiece while Fragile was a showcase exhibiting individual members' bents, capped off by the bravissimo South Side of the Sky. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: October 16 2017 at 14:27
| They're both perfect. Wouldn't change a single note, a single lyric. On either. (Same applies to The Yes Album, Tales From Topographic Oceans and Relayer. The five best albums I've ever heard.) |
Posted By: lostrom
Date Posted: October 16 2017 at 15:39
------------- lostrom |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 17 2017 at 05:10
Really?
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: October 17 2017 at 06:23
Almost. I exaggerated a bit to put some counterweight on the scale in defense of the solo output. -------------
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 17 2017 at 15:20
yep Fragile is brilliantly messy but CTTE satisfies that intellectual thing of being complete and very tidy. Everything is well ordered and in its place. Fragile is the launch pad but CTTE is in the air.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 17 2017 at 15:22
| Here's my take on this. It's only in the past ten years or so that CTTE has been considered their ultimate album and one of(if not THE) ultimate prog albums. Don't get me wrong. I think CTTE is great and it deserves most of the belated recognition it has received over the past several years or so but I don't think it's THAT much better than Fragile or even TYA or relayer. Actually relayer is probably my personal favorite Yes record with CTTE possibly coming in second. Fragile is special to me though because it's one of the first ones I bought. A lot of people these days seem to have problems with the shorter tracks on Fragile with some people even going so far as to call them "filler." Well, of course they are filler in the strictest sense of the term because they weren't meant to be group compositions. However, that by itself doesn't make them bad. At some point the term "filler" came to be used mostly in a pejorative way which is unfortunate. So anyway, at some point CTTE started to get all this recognition and has showed up in best prog album lists usually in the top ten while Fragile has taken a back seat. On the allmusic website however, it's Fragile that is the one with the star next to it(being the one recommended to start with)and the one with the most ratings. Most other sites though(including this one and RYM)have CTTE as their best and most popular. Ultimately I would say it's up to personal taste and preference though. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: October 17 2017 at 15:45
Never knew that I was so far ahead of my time back in the 70s. OK, I learned to know the album within months after its release and I got the album as a present from my classmates for my 14th birthday. -------------
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Posted By: aldri7
Date Posted: October 22 2017 at 20:51
| The inclusion of Siberian Katru on Close to Edge is, IMHO, a plus, not a negative. Without it, I would rank ccte lower than Fragile. With it, its a toss up. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 23 2017 at 22:16
| For me both albums just have to go together. They just have something that connects them (perhaps the fact that they have the exact same line-up and were recorded at the same period?)... however, together they are the best the band ever did, when all of the musicians were the very best a band could hope for... none of them weaker on his instrument than the others. And indeed I don't find the solo spots to be all that bad on Fragile. Mood for a day, as has already been mentioned, is actually very good. The Fish is for me just the jamming (or bass solo) extension of Long Distance Runaround... and this song just doesn't sound complete, and is much weaker, without it. Five Percent for Nothing is just to short to do any damage to the album. We Have Heaven... well, it's weird, but I actually enjoy it. And Cans for Brahms, I wouldn't really call it good or enjoyable, but it doesn't really bother me either. However, I have read that what later became Catherine of Aragon was actually Wakeman's intended solo piece for this album, but he couldn't use it because for contractual reasons he couldn't write music for Yes, but if only it had been used on the album it would have made it even better. |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: October 25 2017 at 02:18
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CTTE remains one of my favourite albums of all time - I love Siberian Khatru and with And You and I and the title track, the whole album is somehow wonderfully whole and integrated. In fact the only bit I occasionally struggle with is the first minute or two of the free-form jazzy jamming of the title track. When I used to play it to friends in the hope of converting them to prog and Yes all those years ago, they tended to comment how messy it was, and I would ask them to stick with it until the main themes developed from it. Not many did! Fragile has amazing highs, and is not far behind CTTE- but I agree that the solo bits mean it lacks that coherence. Definitely interesting though. However, I also would put The Yes album marginally higher - as it also has a rounded quality to it, and starting with Yours is No Disgrace and ending with Starship Trooper is rather impressive. Given that Wakeman hadn't replaced Kaye then (so many fans don't see it in the classic line up canon) - this and the other two are an exceptional run of albums. For me, Tales ended this purple patch, but if they'd put out Sides 1 and 4 as a single album instead (as Wakeman has often suggested) it would have been up there with the other three in my humble view. ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 25 2017 at 20:52
| ^ Or perhaps for Tales they could have used the 1 20 min epic and 2 10 min tracks. Revealing Science of God would be my choice for keeping complete, and I don't know, choose the next 20 min of music to make 2 songs out of them. |
Posted By: peregrino
Date Posted: November 03 2017 at 17:11
| I love Fragile, and I've always seen it as the better album of the two proposed here, but for me, the best Yes albums are.... uhhh.... The Yes Album, and Relayer. |