The most underappreciated drummer
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=109805
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Topic: The most underappreciated drummer
Posted By: BaldFriede
Subject: The most underappreciated drummer
Date Posted: December 30 2016 at 10:44
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He is never mentioned in any posts, does never appear in any drum polls (except if created by me), and hardly anybody knows his name. Yet he is one hell of a drummer and in my personal top five. Who the heck am I talking about? Christian Burchard, the drummer of Embryo. Here are the links to three live recordings of Embryo from about 1974 to demonstrate what a great drummer he is. The complete line-up is Christian Burchard - drums Dieter Miekautsch - keyboards Roman Bunka - guitar Uve Müllrich - bass. Listen and appreciate their playing. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Replies:
Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: December 30 2016 at 11:03
You're not alone!  I also think Burchard is an amazing drummer. His groovy drumming on "Entrances" from Rocksession is out of this world. ------------- Categories strain, crack and sometimes break, under their burden - step out of the space provided. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: December 30 2016 at 12:12
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I think all the folks that passed through Embryo are fantastic musicians. The thing is, most of them are 'unknown' really, and those that are familiar with them do appreciate them. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 30 2016 at 12:57
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I feel the same about Jaki Liebezeit, he is the main reason for my stronger growing love of Can. -------------   
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: December 30 2016 at 14:45
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But Jaki is widely appreciated. Christian is not. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 30 2016 at 16:14
this rings true to me. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Tom Ozric wrote:Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 04:46
And I also feel the same. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 09:19
That's true. Just think of Roman Bunka (who is my favourite guitar player) or bass player Dave King. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 09:53
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Triumvirat's drummer Hans Bathelt is criminally under-rated and appreciated. Another one that never is mentioned in polls, etc. But, boy, he could play! |
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 10:20
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I guess that in prog and jazz fusion it's almost a prerequisite for drummers to be high calibre players, so talented rhythm sections are really commonplace. Unfortunately that leads people to become generally apathetic towards some really great technical players, unless they happened to be in popular groups. One personal favourite drummer of mine that came to mind that no one talks about is Gonzalo Farrugia (had to look up his name) of Crucis. He really grooves on Los Delirios Del Mariscal. ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 11:52
Opal Steig Aus Rocksession Bad Heads And Bad Cats ........and I love them all. Especially Rocksession, with Jimmy Jackson. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 11:55
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Ernest "Boom" Carter - If known at all, it's probably for being the drummer on Bruce Springsteen's "Born to run". .
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Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 31 2016 at 14:21
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Sticking strictly with prog, a couple choices for me would be: Pierre van der Linden (Focus) Barriemore Barlow (Jethro Tull) Chester Thompson (Frank Zappa & Genesis) |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 01 2017 at 10:46
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Hi, I think that Mani Neumeier deserves to be mentioned here. When you listen to Guru Guru's albums, all the way to "Dance of the Flames", that drumming is incredible, and he is not just "keeping time", and I once read on an interview, that he joked he did not keep time, that he liked soloing with the guitar player which was more fun. And later, doing some thrash metal, is also rather amazing, considering he knows that he can fly all over and the guitar player, no one knows which planet he is on half the time! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 01 2017 at 22:08
| I usually suggest the late Pierre Moerlen in these types of lists. He was amazing! |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 00:58
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Whilst the O.P. is stating that the amazing Christian Burchard, drummer extraordinaire, of the German band Embryo, flies under the radar, many misread the topic and suggest other names. Well, I simply adore the Embryo albums I own (I do need to invest in more) but in my current Metallic state-of-mind - I'm re-discovering what I've missed out on, I'm being brought back to my 80's self, and I'm really loving Anthrax. The most melodic 'Thrash' pioneers from the classic 80's era. I see the usual Drummer names mentioned - Lars Ulrich (very good, not great), Dave Lombardo (fast, intricate and really pushing the drums a few steps further (though I've never been 'sold' on Slayer, not back then, not now.....) and, whilst Megadeth could never keep a band member for too long (thanks Dave), Anthrax (despite their suggestive 'nasty' name) are just brilliant. Drummer Charlie Benante is superb. That's what happens when you're from New York............ My dream is to catch one of their gigs, in New York. It wouldn't get any better than this. Charlie is the most 'sensible' Thrash drummer there is, yet no-one talks about him. |
Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 05:51
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Somebody already mentioned Barriemore Barlow, but I like to add Andy Ward, Jan Fride and Mel Pritchard. Nobody ever names these drummers as their favorite. Also Merv Pepler, Conrad Prince (Rad), Stuart Fischer (Stu), all three of Ozric Tentacles. They can handle the strangest rhythms and tempos. That being said, I really have to listen to Embryo to know what we're talking about here.
I love underappreciated stuff much more than the overappreciated stuff (Yes, Genesis, Rush, etc.) |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 12:05
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IMO one i feel as of today a seriously underrated drummer today is Mick Tucker of the Sweet, whom is known of but regarding how ahead of the game he was in the 70s and the little that is spoken of him on forums like drummerworld, and sites like it. he is probably the most underrated powerhouse drummer -whom plays in a pretty famous band. -------------  
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 12:24
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The title of " the most underappreciated" is subjective at best and one persons opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. However, what is certain is this thread should be moved out of the main prog music lounge and into the "Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation" lounge where it belongs. ------------- What? |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 13:09
Everything is subjective, even this opinion. It is the very nature of any statement we utter. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 15:40
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Drummers I love that are naturally just as underappreciated as the bands they played in. Skipping all those mostly into pure jazz: Gérard Pons - Moving Gelatine Plates ... well it's two obscure "french Canterbury"-albums so its no mystery that he rarely gets a mention but pure listening joy. Playful and energetic. Giulio Capiozzo - Area's percussionist wildman. Jon Christensen - Well enough known but it depends on how you look at it. His lyrical, spacious but still kinda busy percussioning on Terje Rypdal and Jan Garbarek's early 70's albums (+his 1971 soloalbum Underwear) can actually give me goosebumps. Among the more known progbands I think Le Orme's Michi Dei Rossi is somewhat overlooked. Even on their gentler or popper stuff he always manages to create an interesting and atmospheric space without ever getting in the way of the melody. Quite an achievement on its own merits. - finally the drummer I'd like to think I would have been: Daniel Denis in the early years of Univers Zero. Drum-patterns and grooves so integrated in the composition they can almost go unnoticed, but ever present at the same time. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 16:51
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^ Those are some great suggestions Saperlipopette! By coincidence I'm listening to Christensen now (on Garbarek's Afric Pepperbird). I was also lucky enough to see him play a small club a few years ago - The Vortex in London with Jakob Bro's band - and he was spellbinding to watch, playing on a smallish kit and frequently hitting the cymbals with his hands and fingers, something I don't recall seeing before. A true Zen master of percussion. Among European improvising drummers of that generation I'd mention Han Bennink in the same breath. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 17:08
| In common with others, most of the examples I'd pick are under-recognised due to playing in bands that don't seem to be well known or much discussed, at least in Anglophone circles. Three currently active players who spring to mind are Stephane Galland of Aka Moon, Ivan Fedotov of Vespero, and Xavi Reija from Barcelona (Xavi Reija Trio etc). |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 17:13
| A young player who I suspect is not yet as widely appreciated as he will be before long is Kenny Grohowski. I hadn't run across him until this year when I picked up two albums he drums on (Zorn's The Painted Bird and Rez Abbasi and Junction's Behind the Vibration). It seems to me that he's a genius, and a complete master of both jazz and metal idioms. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: January 03 2017 at 17:16
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Bruce Gary wasn't a prog drummer but he had a knack for creating memorable drum beats. He wrote the drum line to The Knack's "My Sharona." which beat nails into Disco's coffin. Bruce Gary played with Dylan, Stephen Stills, Bette Midler, Jack Bruce, Sheryl Crow, members of The Doors, Albert King, John Lee Hooker, and Rod Stewart. RIP Bruce Gary! |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 08 2017 at 05:27
| Some other ones are Brainstorm's Jo Koinzer, Dedalus's Enrico Grosso, and-around PA-Dzyan's Peter Giger. These guys should be household words, they are so good! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 22:22
Thanks, Doug! I forgot about Morris Pert from Brand X! I was lucky to see him in 1978, he was a fantastic drummer and percussionist who also played some keyboards!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Pert" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Pert |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:50
 Love that drumming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbtmWItMr-Q
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 02:59
this must be the first time I see you make a comment that is not in any way related to Triumvirat  -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 14:53
It's such a great record all round  and such a shame they didn't record more 
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 14:54
| Here's another good one, because I was just listening to my Kraldjursanstalten album - Michael Maksymenko! Guy is off the hook, but never seems to be mentioned. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 15:09
Gotta love Matsymenko! The man playing a hoover  I think i likened the band to this looneybin outfit going at it in the studio after snorting speed and drinking 20 cups of coffee (gotta love that track! Tjugo koppar kaffe). Overlooked drummers? Jerzy Piotrowski (SBB) Giulio Capiozzo (Area) Aynsley Dunbar (too many to name but I particularly adore his playing on Lou Reed's Berlin. Check out 'How Do You Think It Feels' for proof;) Giancarlo Stringa (Il Balletto di Bronzo) Torstein Lofthus (elephant9, Shining etc etc) Oliver Pedron (Plat du Jour) Chris Maitland (Porcupine Tree. Much prefer his style over Gavin's tbh) Special mention goes to Paal Nilssen-Love from The Thing (Mats Gustafsen project). This man is quite simply insane. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 16:01
The ones who were in Spinal Tap  -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 18:15
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Not mentioned yet, Morgan Ĺgren: ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 10 2017 at 21:47
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Dan Mayo from Tatran is currently one of the best drummers in prog imo... |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 04:18
| ^ An underappreciated band, really. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 01:31
| Prog is awash with great drummers that very few people can name. It goes with the territory really. At the moment I'm enjoying the drumming of the guy who plays in Wolf People. No idea who he is but I just like what he does. Its hard straight as an arrow stylistically creating a beautiful feel. Probably uses a small kit as he wouldn't need a big one! |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 01:56
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Two that come to mind are: John French - Captain Beefheart's Magic Band. I remember listening to the bonus tracks from Safe As Milk and while he was good on the original album, I think the shift in material allowed him to spread his wings a bit, making him stand out more. I almost liken it to how Bill Bruford turned out when he left Yes for King Crimson. Guy Evans - Van Der Graaf Generator. Listen to him going nuts at the end of "Scorched Earth". He could definitely keep up with Peter, David and Hugh. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 08:01
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I'd like to mention Andy McCulloch, the drummer of Greenslade and on King Crimson's "Lizard". I especially like his drumming on "Lizard". ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 08:25
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Another big fan of McCulloch here and of Lizard in particular. Truth be told, I think I prefer both Giles and McCulloch to any one drummer in KC. The duo of Broof and Muir though exceeds everything. I think Muir got inside ol Bill's head...in a good way. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 09:01
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Also Trevor Tomkins, the drummer on Gilgamesh's "Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into". Superb jazzy drumming! ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 09:22
Although I dug them from the first time I got to know their music (started with Opal) I've grown to love Embryo a little more year after year - and slowly they've become one of my most treasured bands out of all bands. I've only experienced this kind of slowly building appreciation (soon bordering on obsession) within jazz - and with similarly "under the radar" artists such as well...the Embryo-affiliated master pianist Mal Waldron for one. -and Christian Burchard is incredible (which I've been taking extra notice of lately)
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Posted By: mike1259
Date Posted: May 25 2017 at 02:53
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Here's a late offering for you - Guy Evans from VDGG! I'm sure he received plenty of admiration from the band (Hamill held onto him his full career) and cult followers yet I'd be surprised to find any appreciation extending beyond that. I'm struck by how he played to accentuate the music and not draw attention to himself. Not unlike Collins with Genesis. As far as some others mentioned, they really weren't good at all. It can be surprising how studio recordings will use overdubs and such to cover up that which may be otherwise lacking (I'm thinking particularly of 'Tresspass', Mayhew really stunk up the joint). |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: May 29 2017 at 22:26
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 30 2017 at 01:01
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Well it doesn't specify Prog drummers so.... Budgie (Siouxsie & the Banshees) Billy Ficca (Television) JD Haney (Monochrome Set) Jon Hiseman (strange how he seldom gets mentioned round here?) Pete De Freitas (Echo & the Bunymen) Ted McKenna (SAHB) John Densmore (Doors) Brian Davidson (Nice) Pierre Moerlen (Gong) Cat Heady (the Gourishankar) Mani Neumeier (Guru Guru) Michael Giles (King Crimson) Andy McCulloch (King Crimson/Greenslade) Terry Chimes (XTC) Topper Headon (Clash) Mikael Israelsson (Black Bonzo) Sándor Herpai (Barbaro) ------------- 
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: May 30 2017 at 06:47
| Wow at least we're actually talking about music again. How about Vangelis' drumming on Albedo 0.39. I guess he doesn't really qualify as a drummer. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 30 2017 at 08:05
Didn't know he 'spanked the calfskin' at all. Beware of Greeks bearing sticks... -------------
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Posted By: ClaudeV
Date Posted: May 30 2017 at 20:15
| Andy Ward (Camel) |