Anyone else here a fan of raw/"sloppy" live music?
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=109390
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Topic: Anyone else here a fan of raw/"sloppy" live music?
Posted By: souio
Subject: Anyone else here a fan of raw/"sloppy" live music?
Date Posted: November 12 2016 at 16:57
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I don't know why, but for some reason, I love the sound of raw, sloppy live music. I don't mean sloppy in the sense that you can't recognize it, but I mean sloppy in the sense that every musician is putting their all into it - giving it all of their energy even if there's some imperfections. Originally, when I listened to prog, I wanted all of the live stuff to be as reserved as it sounded on the albums, but then after attending a few concerts, and watching Yessongs for the first time, I found I would appreciate the imperfections and slight sloppiness and, funny enough, it absorbed me into the music even more and even gave me a jolt of adrenaline lol. That's also one of the reasons Bruford is one of my favorites; whereas on the albums he's very precise and reserved, on Yessongs he's still playing the same complex parts, but in a more raw, animalistic fashion with an improvised fill here or there. I find that a lot of newer prog bands are all a lot more reserved and trying to play a lot of their songs note-for-note with the exact same energy as on the albums. Which can be good, but, to me, kind of lacks the energy and adrenaline I would get from watching a live show. Note: Sloppiness used in this sense is more to describe a raw, dirty sound, and not the musicians making mistakes nonstop (which I wouldn't enjoy at all :P). |
Replies:
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 12 2016 at 17:03
| Not intentionally sloppy but as a raw expression and just being loose or not giving a damn - yes indeed. You should start listening to krautrock if you don't already. |
Posted By: souio
Date Posted: November 12 2016 at 17:18
Bolded is a great summary of this entire topic's idea. I do listen to Krautrock and, while it's a great example of that, I find that it focuses on repetition and it gets more raw and raw and getting looser and looser, which is likely the point of the repetition. What I'm talking about would be the more traditional/symphonic prog bands playing their entire and multi-part epics with that same not give a damn attitude while still actually still playing it well. Hearing a 20 minute multi-movement prog epic played with that intensity and ferocity is something to behold, and something only a live environment can give you. Sadly, I'm finding that a lot of bands these days seem to be, as you'd say, "giving too much of a damn" when it comes to live music and tend to play it more as if it's a chamber performance than a rock concert. Even some prog metal bands are like that imo |
Saperlipopette! wrote:Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: November 12 2016 at 17:27
Like this? ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 12 2016 at 20:16
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I agree that the push & pull of music played with some abandon is more interesting, especially prog and fusion because of the contrast created between the precise music and the imprecise humanity playing it. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 12 2016 at 23:38
| The band the Tea Club seem to fit that description live. It's not meant to be an insult though. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 03:30
approximative rock, uh??  |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 03:51
Ok. I see the difference and I also see your point. I think what you write about here is much of my reason for falling out of love with loads of more recent, experimental prog. The dissonant riffs and complex drum patterns I listened to daily for years now seem sterile and emotionless. Many of the original prog bands weren't complex for sake of being complex but by necessity - expressing complex emotions. It seems that a lot of recent bands hasn't got anything else to offer than technical skills. Watching/listening to VdGG and King Crimson live they often raw, brutal almost ugly - pure artistic expression without compromise. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 06:32
hell yeah man.... good example of why ELP is considered to be one the very tops as far as live acts. I've been told by more than one oldtimer who saw all those bands back in the day... ELP shows were second to none in their live glory.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 07:09
I can well believe it as there are some wonderful slightly rough performances in the bonus material of the Pictures Deluxe Edition  .------------- "There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 07:11
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 07:22
One amazing show Camel gave in my town, back in early 80's, consisted of the entire Snow Goose (as far as my tired memory can tell, flawlessly performed) and for the second half a totally unexpected medley of Rock covers (which I can no longer remember precisely) but that threw the sports pavilion on fire.  |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 08:28
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I love the more direct live sound and I tend to prefer live albums and live versions of songs. Obviously comparing live with studio albums is not quite fair because most live albums are some kind of "best of" compilations, but anyway, the albums I like to listen to most of Genesis (by quite some distance), Yes, Pink Floyd, Cardiacs, Amon Düül II and many, many more are live. |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 09:04
| Not prog but Hendrix fits very well here. Every concert is a raw version of the studio albums. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 09:07
those to me are some of the most interesting artists.... the studio albums are mere templates to the real artistry which is done on stage. A couple of bands/artists jump to mind that fall into that. obviously Hendrix... but add The Who (look no further than Tommy)... the Allman Brothers and the Airplane. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 09:11
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and as far as prog...whereas you have some like ELP.. and to a lesser extent Yes... that are able to translate their complex studio magic so well on stage. look no further than Toccata.. it is almost insanely unfair that any group could be so talented to do THAT in a studio.. seriously... the creativity they displayed on that sh*ts on about well.. anything Genesis, Floyd, Tull Camel.. and yeah.. even King Crimson ever did. but to do that . to do ON STAGE in a live setting.. whoa.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 09:42
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------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 09:44
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yep.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 09:49
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I can understand that. Some that come to mind are Snarky Puppy (they record all of their music live in front of small audiences and have professionally recorded videos of them doing so on Youtube) they have a lot of fun and give it their all. 70s Jethro Tull performances (especially of Aqualung) are waaaaay better than the album for me, Exit, Stage Left... because Rush, The Mars Volta have some awesome live jams some better than others. ------------- https://twitter.com/ProgFollower" rel="nofollow - @ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 13 2016 at 21:12
I would include pre darks-side Pink Floyd here. Many of their studio songs are just small samples of what they could do with those pieces live. |
Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: November 14 2016 at 06:47
Just like that! |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 17 2016 at 12:48
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Yessongs is the only Yes album I listen to anymore. Their studio recordings are overly compressed and "boxy". ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: November 17 2016 at 15:21
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Well, the Stones are one of my top 20 musical artists and I like them live a lot, too . . . if that counts. Zeppelin are also in my top 5 (they're #5 for me) and I love Page live. I'm also obviously a huge Dead fan (they're #6 for me), and a lot of people would say they were sloppy live, at least sometimes, but I don't really agree with that. Aside from that, I'm not necessarily a fan of raw/sloppy live music. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 17 2016 at 16:06
Burford only plays 2 songs on Yessongs (Perpetual Change and LDR/The Fish), the rest is Alan White ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: novasolis
Date Posted: November 21 2016 at 17:15
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It's one of the reasons I love Steve Howe's playing. It's incredibly "uneven", you hear all kinds of muted notes and "chicken" sounds, but he's still such a virtuoso and dedicated to the instrument. The imperfections really give it more life. It's actually very hard to get a good balance like that! ------------- https://anthonycondarcuri.bandcamp.com/album/supernova" rel="nofollow - Listen to my free prog album "Supernova" here! |
Posted By: souio
Date Posted: November 23 2016 at 06:42
Great way to sum up my complaints about live prog these days! Too much prog, not enough rock lol |
Posted By: Warthur
Date Posted: November 24 2016 at 04:55
| Best example I can think of this sort of thing, though in "prog related" rather than prog itself, would probably be David Bowie's 1972 Santa Monica live set. Even compared to other Ziggy-era gigs, Bowie and the Spiders just go at it with this really raw garage rock approach and it's a heap of fun precisely because it's such a different take on their material. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 24 2016 at 06:43
HAH!!! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: souio
Date Posted: November 24 2016 at 08:10
That's me at almost every live concert I go to hahaha That's another thing that annoys me about prog fans - when a band enters a funky or heavy section with a good beat in their song while playing live, and I'm there slightly headbanging or moving to the beat and I look around only to see hundreds of people standing with their arms crossed. Once I start my band, "No Crossing Arms" will be a requirement in every performance and I'll point each person I see out lol |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 24 2016 at 08:40
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that is definitely not the Progday crew... you are thinking the PE's Nearfest sissy crew that would have thrown rotten veggies at that group for not being prog enough....  we rock man... prog is all good and all.. but if it doesn't rock on stage... get your ass shaking and dancing....forget about it man... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |