50 albums that built progressive metal
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Topic: 50 albums that built progressive metal
Posted By: Windhawk
Subject: 50 albums that built progressive metal
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 12:11
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My companion Vitaly, who runs veteran prog website www.progressor.net, http://www.progressor.net/review/prog50m.html" rel="nofollow - published a list of 50 albums that built progressive metal this week. I kind of guess that a few people in here will question some of his choices. I'm putting it out here in case someone has the interest to see what one of the true veterans of the progressive rock universe thinks are vital progressive metal albums. This is, after all, a guy who read books about progressive rock even before I was born. The list: 50 Albums That Built Progressive Metal (in chronological order) 1. "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" Black Sabbath (1973) 2. "Kansas" Kansas (1974) 2. "Sabotage" Black Sabbath (1975) 4. "2112" Rush (1976) 5. "Technical Ecstasy" Black Sabbath (1976) 6. "Leftoverture" Kansas (1976) 7. "A Farewell to Kings" Rush (1977) 8. "Never Say Die" Black Sabbath (1978) 9. "Hemispheres" Rush (1978) 10. "Moving Pictures" Rush (1981) 11. "Melissa" Mercyful Fate (1983) 12. "Power Windows" Rush (1985) 13. "Awaken the Guradian" Fates Warning (1986) 14. "Epicus Doomivus Metallicus" Candlemass (1986) 15. "Mekong Delta" Mekong Delta (1987) 16. "Life Cycle" Sieges Even (1988) 17. "Dimension Hatross" Voivod (1988) 18. "No Exit" Fates Warning (1988) 19. "Operation Mindcrime" Queensryche (1988) 20. "Them" King Diamond (1988) 21. "Conspiracy" King Diamond (1989) 22. "Nothingface" Voivod (1989) 23. "Control & Resistance" Watchtower (1989) 24. "A Social Grace" Psychotic Waltz (1990) 25. "Dances of Death" Mekong Delta (1990) 26. "The Wayward Sons of Mother Earth" Skyclad (1991) 27. "Images & Words" Dream Theater (1992) 28. "Kaleidoscope" Mekong Delta (1992) 29. "The Outer Limits" Voivod (1993) 30. "Focus" Cynic (1993) 31. "Psychedelicatessen" Threshold (1994) 32. "Wildhoney" Tiamat (1994) 33. "Life, Death & Other Morbid Tales" Memento Mori (1994) 34. "Awake" Dream Theater (1994) 35. "Sophisticated" Sieges Even (1995) 36. "Burnt Offerings" Iced Earth (1995) 37. "The Seduction of Madness" Garden Wall (1995) 38. "Abstrakt Algebra" Abstrakt Algebra (1995) 39. "The Graveyard" King Diamond (1996) 40. "Irrational Anthems" Skyclad (1996) 41. "Extinct Instinct" Threshold (1997) 42. "The Wake of Magellan" Savatage (1997) 43. "Scenes from a Memory" Dream Theater (1999) 44. "Disconnected" Fates Warning (2000) 45. "Blackwater Park" Opeth (2001) 46. "Forget the Colours" Garden Wall (2002) 47. "Toward the Silence" Garden Wall (2005) 48. "Nostradamus" Judas Priest (2008) 49. "Death Magic Doom" Candlemass (2009) 50. "The Book of Souls" Iron Maiden (2015) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Replies:
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 12:23
Kansas?? 
Nothing by Deep Purple? ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: doompaul
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 12:34
| I love a ton of the records on the list...but I would disagree that a lot (esp. the later releases) of the albums listed built the genre. Prog metal has been around for quite a while. But overall, a really solid list of fantastic records. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 12:56
^ I agree, nicely put 
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 14:10
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So the first Iron Maiden-album that helped build prog metal came out last year. Right. There must be atleast 20 albums included here that's pure subjective silliness - including every single album released the last 15 years. Three albums by Garden Wall but no Metallica, Megadeth or Death. Black Sabbath is essential but four albums, including two of their worst: Never Say Die and Technical Exctacy? No rom for anything by Rainbow, King Crimson, Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin. and Kansas?... Why? People are to generous. I don't care all that much about prog metal but do not approve. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 14:54
I don't own a single album from that list 
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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 16:14
| These lists are always subjective and can't be taken as more than a bit of fun. I own 29 of them but if you're including Iron Maiden then The Book Of Souls is a bit late to have any influence of the building of prog metal. Seventh Son of a Seventh Son released more than 25 years earlier would have been a better choice. |
Posted By: doompaul
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 16:30
| The abundance of Fates Warning is a good sign, however. I, myself, prefer their early stuff when they were trying to be an Iron Maiden cover band (i.e. Night on Brocken) but they were always pushing boundaries and I respect them for that, even if I didn't always care for the results. |
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 16:51
The absence of King Crimson is a little disconcerting, but what's really troubling me here is the fact that Moving Pictures is in the bloody top 10!  I don't follow prog metal at all but I can't help but feel that the leading artists in the genre aren't usually sitting back and trying their best to channel the MTV-friendly AOR spirit of "Limelight" when they're writing their 20+ minute extreme technical epics... And of all the Judas Priest albums that they feel "built" prog metal...Nostradamus? From 2008? I'm pretty sure that prog metal was an established thing before 2008!
------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 17:32
I agree about Kansas. WTF? And no Deep Purple or Rainbow seems completely off. Also strange is that he ignored King Crimson. It would seem he is rather light on historical perspective. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 17:40
| I think I heard about progressive metal for the first time (if I remember right) '94 or'95. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 30 2016 at 20:48
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^ We were using the term in SF in the early '80s. Here's ten for ya . . . Black Sabbath s/t Tull War Child Lucifer's Friend Banquet Automatic Fine Tuning AFT Rush Hemispheres Led Zep Presence Angel Witch s/t Iron Maiden s/t Voivod Dimension Hatröss Metallica And Justice... ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 00:43
  Seriously - his list is so bad it actually fails to make sense, aside from the glaring omissions that others have mentioned /edit: crossed out a silly type-o. soz.
------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 06:51
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Where did Prog Metal really start... What were it's formative albums? There are likely as many opinions on that as there are a****les. Since I adore both of mine yeah seriously man... looks to me to be nothing but a list of favorite albums and if not...a severely flawed list. Kansas? are you f**king kidding me. To me... it begins with the first musical incarnation of Judas Priest. Sad Wings of Destiny. To me.. that is the ground zero of prog metal. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 10:15
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On a smaller scale, I can't help noticing the presence of Voivod, Watchtower and... Candlemass, but the absence of Coroner and Celtic Frost is rather... disturbing... |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 10:24
Yeah forgot about Coroner. Not so certain about the importance of Celtic Frost in this regard. What direction of progmetal did the latter band inspire? The atmospheric post metal stuff? I'm asking because I don't know - not to be difficult.
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Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 10:41
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The choices that the only albums important in shaping prog metal prior to 1986 are from Rush, Kansas, and Sabbath seems wrong. Definitely agree with Sad Wings of Destiny. The slant seems more on metal shaping prog metal than the prog. Certainly King Crimson's Red deserves mention as well as a Yes album. Early Iron Maiden and Metallica. I can buy into Kansas a little because my initial reaction to Dream Theater's When Dream and Day Unite was "Kansas on speed" which I said to my roommate. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 10:45
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Upon further consideration, when opting for a thread title that includes "albums that built progressive metal", it seems obviously odd that one would include albums from the 21st century (and include bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden, whose glory days were 30 years previous). When one "builds" a list of this sort, there are an enormous amount of bands that laid the foundations. I mentioned Purple, Rainbow and Crimson who were strangely omitted (it looks like the presenter only owns Sabbath, Rush and Kansas albums prior to 1980), and posters have also mentioned Tull, Judas Priest and Led Zep, among others. Why not anything from the late 60s and early 70s? Every genre has a point of origination, so why not mention: Blue Cheer early Alice Cooper Montrose Steppenwolf Iron Butterfly Motorhead The Stooges Blue Oyster Cult Uriah Heep Mc5 Lucifer's Friend (1970 debut) Sir Lord Baltimore (1970 debut) ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: October 01 2016 at 10:55
To be honest, Celtic Frost isn't a direct influence on progressive metal, but the band dared some experiences that might have led some metal bands to try doing... something else. It's true that Celtic Frost may have given ideas to the doomdeath scence, some gothic metal bands (maybe Opeth?)... rather than the likes of Dream Theater, Magellan or whatever "classical" prog-metal band. But their album Into the Pandemonium is still a milestone: it showed a path, and even if most of prog-metal bands don't follow this path, it's here. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 03:24
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Would've thought Rainbow's Stargazer would've found it's way there along with a soupcon of Long Live Rock And Roll. Which reminds me, very few of the above - including Rainbow would not have existed without Deep Purple, In Rock, Concerto and the rest. Which may be harsh thing to say about Deep Purple. Queen might be worth noting as well. Add in at least the first three Blue Oyster Cult albums, the first Heep albums - especially Salisbury. Along with Sabbath we have our foundation. There may be more. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 03:31
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Oh, and another thing, did these 50 albums really build progressive metal this week? Sorry, I jest. But seriously folks; look, Book of Souls might be the best Maiden album ever (sorry Powerslave fans but it had to happen) but it's only been out a short while. How can it have built progressive metal? It's more like one of THE consequences rather than a building block. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 08:12
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Black Sabbath was instrumental in building metal in general but King Crimson was very much a key player in the progressive metal scene as well. In The Court established a very early way of combining aggression and progressiveness all together. In fact KC is one of the few artists that is listed on PA, MMA and JMA. On MMA as proto-metal although some of their albums like Lizard are lacking the metal bite. The list lacks Queen, Led Zeppelin, early Iron Maiden, Metallica (and Justice..), Crimson Glory, Mr Bungle, Tool, plus many others. I could go on. The first Watchtower album Energetic Dissassembly is rightfully the first true progressive metal album. Dude needs to work on this one a bit :)
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Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 09:27
Maybe, but there was a bit on Rocka Rolla too. ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 12:12
true that... but a firm believer in the old adage.... if they ain't listening to it.. they aren't being influenced by it. Good album.. that sold.. what 15 copes Sad Wings put them on the map...and what would become prog metal on the radar. One thing to add... as a veteran, ,participant and observer of this topic over what 15 years on musical forums. It is interesting to note how people fail to differentiate between metal and heavy rock.. or this case.. heavy prog.. and prog metal. Deep Purple.. the orginators of heavy prog.. but metal? come on... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 14:14
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I totally agree with Micky about "Sad wings of Destiny" Judas Priest - preceded by Black Sabbath (Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 15:42
 given the nature of prog metal.... one can see the sonic influence of Priest over Sabbath. No question in my mind there. One could argue that Sabbath didn't exactly pervue prog metal.. but was a metal band that given suitcases full of cocaine decided to expand their sound. Prog? hell yeah... prog-METAL? debatable. Priest never bothered with teh artsy fartsy sh*t and broadening their sonic horizons... never bothered with f**king mellotrons, bagpipes, sitars or bringing in Rick Wakeman as a guest haha but again.. as has been noted... metal is a different beast than rock. .and prog-metal is not prog rock. A distinction that if often missed IMO. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 17:04
| ^ no one is saying that Sabbath, Priest or Purple are progressive metal, but they influenced the genre, that's all. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 17:48
interesting.. so let's get to brass tacks and nails... I was going here but your post is what I was waiting for to bring up my thoughts. how... just how did they influence it. No one is saying they are... some of the more infamous 'discussions' this site has had have been directly about just what those groups were.. or were not. it is a rote thing to say they did.... but can you explain just how they did? Or anyone..for discussions sake of course for I want to measure that versus my thoughts on it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 18:47
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Well they are one of the earliest definers of the metal sound so anything that has spawned from metal is by definition influenced by Sabbath ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: October 02 2016 at 18:56
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A little late, but Nostradamus is the Priest nomination? I know Sad Wings... was already mentioned, but what Sin After Sin? Stained Class? Screaming For Vengeance? Even Painkiller probably had a bigger impact. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 00:22
omg, what have I done? ok, let me give you some examples: I hear Black Sabbath influences (the Dio era) in Symphony X music. On DT's Awake album, I hear some Rush, Pantera (Petrucci definitely paid attention to Dimebag), Kansas (Innocence Faded), Deep Purple/Rainbow (Erotomania). or maybe I'm just hearing things... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 00:55
Good observation. I tend to agree, and I'd add that progmetal is, on balance, a product of heavy metal, not prog rock. Conversely and contradictive, heavy metal itself was a byproduct, or a result, of the progression of rock in the late 1960s (Psych/Prog). ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 00:58
Is this even a question Mickey? The more ambitious works and albums by the metal pioneers of the 70's was obviously a huge influence on the early days of prog-metal. There is a direct line of inspiration from Sabbath/Purple (and anyone in their right mind would have included Sabotage over Never Say Die andTechnical Ecstacy) through NWOBHM who both Priest and Maiden once were a part of - through the early days of early 80's thrash, speed and heavy metal. Metallica, Mercyful Fate, Queensrÿche, Fates Warning, Voivod, Watchtower... virtually all metal that had more to offer than sped up garage punk on steroids were fans who knew knew their metal-history.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 02:38
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The musical influence that moved heavy rock to metal was firstly, abandoning blues, being more aware of harmonic changes - i.e. a more classical influence. This is usually in the form of using modes which is the part of a scale that originates on parts of a piece of music that is not the root or tonic. The addition of building blocks of established classical harmony rather than pentatonic blues jamming. Of course there is the neo-classical guitar thing where they all wanted to prove they could all do the same thing. And not play actual pop songs for me. Rhythmically, abandoning groove especially on thrash. The knucklehead approach mistaken for being "aufentic". Melodically - oh hell it's metal, why bother. Ok there are the Scorpions and UFO. Look if you tracked a line from say Therion to Purple and Sabbath you'd be including priest, Maiden (itself a cross between Wishbone Ash, Jethro Tull and Led Zeppelin, especially Achilles.). Therion use orchestras and opera singers (think Lonesome Crow as a good influence on that bit). Not to mention the last Uli Jon Roth album. He's a fine example of progressive metal. Four Seasons covered as well. Purple you betcha - Two Group and Orchestra suites (and one done again, thankfully) but guitar wise probably more Rainbow. You get metal bands doing Purple tributes, one lot that's been around a while called Machine Head. Vocally singers have spent decades in the shadow of Ian Gillan. Sadly the use of wit has been one of the first of his many influences to go. Not that I regard death growls as helping things along. At least no one I like can blamed for that overdone gimmick. If only they had ignored Mike Oldfield in this respect. I know I do. I think the question is not that which metal / heavy rock / whatever has influenced metal but what music other than metal has helped things along. I'm imagining romantic classical (Beethoven, Mahler, Wagner) as modern classical (Varese, Messiaen, Stravinsky, Webern) has worked in with prog rock. I think it might be hard to pinpoint a direct obvious Hendrix influence in Converge or Opeth but that is hardly the point which is the development of heavy metal pop music is a process. Once upon a time ACDC were regarded as metal. But the metal heads insist now this is not so. The often spouted idea that ACDC are "classic rock" is a way of trying to shake that off and "purifying" the metal blood. (I hope dear reader you get an inkling of sarcasm here). "Vey're klassik rokk!" "You mean, like ACDC and Simon and Garfunkel?" Attempting a contrasting correlative example "Wot?!" ... sigh... where's the vino...? Classic rock is a sales format not a style of playing any pop music. Perhaps metal heads are even more simple than the ones I knew and are only able to take in very limited information and that is only within their cultural orbit. Trying to discuss a musical one makes me think of a combo of The Wall and Thick As A Brick (real life Dunning - Kruger syndrome). I find it funny that metal heads find prog rock a challenge. They insist that metal is not "pop". Yet if there is anything to far outside the sonic milieu (noisy) and wimpy (fast, noisy) and yet thusly go and display the same characteristics as any other teenybopper. Thankfully we prog rock fans with our wisdom and lack of snob standards know better and can set an example, or at least be quietly understanding. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 02:59
I'm not aware of many of these 80's, 90's and 00's albums you cite, but I'd have definitely included Judas Priest's Sad Wings of Destiny and Rainbow's Rising .... .... and why not Iron Maiden's début. No BÖC , either, though?? however,
 Power Windows?? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 05:44
^ Absolutely  How can we realistically track influence? Influence is not something copied that we can read like the pages a book, it is something used to inspire and inspiration (which can come from the most unlikely of quarters) is difficult to determine just by listening to the result. Unless an artist stands up and says, "This album what I made was influenced by that album here and that other album there" then all we are doing is guessing and speculating. You cannot actually tell Metallica's direct influences by listening to 'Kill 'Em All'. Here's a thing: on 'Garage Days', along with several other NWOBHM and European Heavy Metal bands, Metallica covered Diamond Head and have cited them as an influence; and in turn, Diamond Head cite as influences Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, UFO, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Rush and Free ... as would every other NWOBHM band at the time! And that's kinda important - Every Metal band on the planet that formed in the 1980s was influenced by NWOBHM, including some of those cited by Metallica such as Merciful Fate. NWOBHM grew out of the old-wave of Heavy Metal, which at the time we called Heavy Rock (Britain) or Hard Rock (America), which in turn grew out of British and American Blues Rock. As Rollon correctly pointed out and Hugues has emphasised, from the 1960s to the 1980s and beyond is an unbroken lineage, so it's damn near impossible to draw a line from one end to the other without hitting several (or even all) points in between. Furthermore Heavy/Hard/Rock/Metal never experienced a decline so never needed a resurgence, renaissance or reinvention to revive its fortunes, we delineate it chronologically and compartmentalise it into subgenres out of convenience and for no other reason, Sabbath, Heep, AC/DC or Led Zepp could headline a Metal festival and no one would bat an eyelid. As a curious sidetracking co-incidence: Diamond Head took their name from Phil Manzanera's first solo album and in 1983 released a Heavy Metal Progressive Rock album called 'Canterbury'. Listening to 'Canterbury' now we would quickly surmise that it was not even remotely influenced by Phil Manz or the Canterbury Scene but at times sounds a little bit like Queen and at others sounds not unlike Uriah Heep, neither of whom has Diamond Head acknowledged as an influence, and those similarities do not actually imply influence anyway because it's hard to tell just by listening that Diamond Head in general, and 'Canterbury' in particular, was influenced by Rush, Sabbath or Priest. This wasn't the first Metal album to get a bit Prog or the first Prog album to get a bit Metal, nor is a Progressive Metal album (so can't be one of the first Progressive Metal albums) and it's a bankable certainty that it played no part in the "building" of Progressive Metal because even though the band Diamond Head is now familiar to many (at least by name), few heard this album in 1983 and fewer still after. Releasing a Heavy Metal Prog Rock album in 1983 probably wasn't the smartest thing to do when Iron Maiden, Def Leopard and Saxon were still riding what was left of the NWOBHM, erm, wave and unbeknown to them, a month after this album was released a band their previous albums had influenced were about to unleash an album that would rip the Metal scene a new arsehole. But like other 2nd-tier NWOBHM bands such as Samson and Tygers of Pan Tang whose fortunes were fading, they were struggling and had do try something, so for various reasons the album flopped, disappeared into obscurity and became a rare collectors item. So, we cannot deny that all those albums that people are claiming built Prog Metal or influenced Prog Metal actually exist so the later bands must have heard them, it does not follow that any of them can be directly attributed to aiding its inception or actually being a part of its development.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 05:50
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I thought Sunn O))) were in there somewhere? This genre is not my cup of tea but I thought these guys were highly influential. I guess it is because they don't do 'songs' or 'anthems'... |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 06:26
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Yes to everything Dean said. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 06:29
I remember back in Germany the term "Techno Thrash" was quite popular around 1987-1990ish, when bands like Hades, Realm, Anacrusis, Sadus, Mekong Delta etc. were somewhat on the rise, but bands like Crimson Glory, Queensryche, Fates Warning and Dream Theater were definitely labelled as "Progressive Metal" around the same time. The absence of WatchTower's "Energetic Disassembly" makes the list appear to be incomplete, a highly influential record of the somewhat more extreme metal of the 80's. Add Death's "Human" and a few others too!! |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 07:29
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Someone is going to have to explain Power Windows by Rush being anywhere on that list. I love that album but to say that it helped build prog metal? huh? What am I missing?
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 08:35
| ^I'm afraid no one can. Still over half of the albums on the list is even less fitting. |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 09:43
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I added some, took out a lot and made it a list of 30. It might not be perfect but it's better than the list in the OP. 1. "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" Black Sabbath (1973)
2. "Red" King Crimson (1974) 3. "Sabotage" Black Sabbath (1975) 4. "2112" Rush (1976) 5. "Sad Wings Of Destiny" Judas Priest (1976) 6. "Agents Of Fortune" Blue Öyster Cult (1976) 7. "Melissa" Mercyful Fate (1983) 8. "Powerslave" Iron Maiden (1984) 9. "Energetic Disassembly" Watchtower (1985) 10. "Awaken the Guradian" Fates Warning (1986) 11. "Epicus Doomivus Metallicus" Candlemass (1986) 12. "Master Of Puppets" Metallica (1986) 13. "Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?" Megadeth (1986) 14. "Mekong Delta" Mekong Delta (1987) 15. "Life Cycle" Sieges Even (1988) 16. "Dimension Hatross" Voivod (1988) 17. "No Exit" Fates Warning (1988) 18. "Operation Mindcrime" Queensryche (1988) 19. "Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son" Iron Maiden (1988) 20. "...And Justice For All" Metallica (1988) 21. "Nothingface" Voivod (1989) 22. "Control & Resistance" Watchtower (1989) 23. "Dances of Death" Mekong Delta (1990) 24. "Rust In Peace" Megadeth (1990) 25. "Human" Death (1991) 26. "Images & Words" Dream Theater (1992) 27. "Kaleidoscope" Mekong Delta (1992) 28. "Focus" Cynic (1993) 29. "Crimson" Edge Of Sanity (1996) 30. "AEnima" Tool (1996) ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 10:33
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There's been a lot of attention to the metal side of the equation but by definition progressive metal is the fusion of heavy metal and progressive rock. The metal side of things has been quite discussed but the progressive rock side of the equation seems to fly under the radar. Progressive metal would not be a unique subgenre in the greater metal universe without influences ranging from King Crimson to Pink Floyd. For example, some of the earliest examples of progressive metal coming into its own such as bands like Queensryche on Operation Mindcrime which could be better described as Iron Maiden meets Pink Floyd with a touch of power metal in the mix. Psychotic Waltz was clearly in the Jethro Tull worshipping phase on their debut album A Social Grace. Dream Theater was clearly inspired by the 80s neo-prog with their keyboard runs on their early albums. Steve Harris of Iron Maiden was quite vocal that progressive rock of the 70s was as much inspiration as the heavier blues based rock and metal of the same era. In fact one track on Renaissance's Prologue "Rajah Khan" pretty much provide a blueprint for the whole Steve Harris bass sound. So in effect, i would argue that there is as much if not more progressive rock in the mix that helped forge the escape from the standard verse / chorus trap that many 80s bands were stuck in. Of course anything can be influential whether it be yodeling, Tuva throat singing, swing jazz or French chansons but there are clearcut progressive albums that have made a dent in the consciousness of the metal lover's world that opened up doors and allowed such hybridization to become the norm. If you add all the subs of metal itself then we should include albums by Meshuggah, Gorguts, Deathspell Omega etc which upped the progressive ante and thus spawned influence for armies of followers who would in turn take things even further. If someone was to take the time this monumental task of following the "progressive metal trail" would require a flow chart on someone's living room wall. Anyone up to it?
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 10:54
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^ Ah, no. It doesn't work like that does it. ------------- What? |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 11:15
Sure it does. I've heard influences from Dark Side and The Wall in more than a few prog metal releases I'm sort of agreeing with you that it's impossible to list all such albums. We can simply pinpoint releases in history that actually made an impact. I'll make my own list.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 11:22
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Sure, we all have but you can't do prog by numbers, and prog simply doesn't work like that. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 11:48
Vey good list! If we were to make a top 50 my additional suggestions would be: Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple (but not sure exactly which albums) + Queen (Queen II), Blue Oyster Cult (Secret Treaties), Rainbow (Rising), Manowar* (Hail to England), Crimson Glory (st), Coroner (No More Color), Artillery (Inheritance), Atheist (Unquestionable Presence), Pestilence (Testimony of the Ancients)... can't think of any more. Lucifers Friend, Granicus, Jericho, Dust, November, Flower Travellin' Band, Dark mm... were all metallish and proggy early on, but I doubt they were very influential. I think I'd gone for Rage For Order by Queensryche over the follow-up. *the epic silliness comes from Bands like Manowar
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Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 13:51
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Here's my go at a 50 list: In
Rock –
Deep Purple
Lucifer’s
Friend –
Lucifer’s Friend
Larks’
Tongues In Aspic –
King Crimson
Sabbath
Bloody Sabbath –
Black Sabbath
Queen
II –
Queen
Red
–
King Crimson
Secret
Treaties –
Blue Oyster Cult
Sabotage
–
Black Sabbath
Sad
Wings of Destiny –
Judas Priest
2112
–
Rush
Rising
–
Rainbow
Hemispheres
–
Rush
At
War With Satan –
Venom
Powerslave
–
Iron Maiden
Don’t
Break The Oath –
Mercyful Fate
Energetic
Disassembly –
Watchtower
Master
of Puppets –
Metallica
Killing
Technology –
Voivod
Seventh
Son of A Seventh Son –
Iron Maiden
Operation:
Mindcrime –
Queensryche
Dimension
Hatross –
Voivod
And
Justice For All –
Metallica
Them
–
King Diamond
No
Exit –
Fates Warning
Nothingface
–
Voivod
No
More Color –
Coroner
The
Key –
Nocturnus
Human
–
Death
Unquestionable
Presence –
Atheist
Effigy
of The Forgotten –
Suffocation
Pure
–
Godflesh
Images
and Words –
Dream Theater
Earth
II –
Earth
Spheres
–
Pestilence
Elements
–
Atheist
Focus
–
Cynic
Symbolic
–
Death
Destroy
Erase Improve –
Meshuggah
Crimson
–
Edge of Sanity
Through
Silver In Blood –
Neurosis
Obscura
–
Gorguts
Still
Life –
Opeth
We
Are The Romans –
Botch
Monumension
–
Enslaved
Leaving
Your Body Map –
maudlin of the Well
Bath
–
maudlin of the Well
The
Mantle –
Agalloch
Si
Monumentum Requires, Circumspice – Deathspell Omega
Leviathan
–
Mastodon
Souvenirs d'un
autre monde – Alcest
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 14:10
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Nice to see that Vitaly's list has caused some discussion to happen. I can't vouch for nor explain his choices, apart from that it appears to be a list of best albums from that category, nor do I think he'll ever sign up for this site to do explain his reasoning, but thought it interesting to bring it out into the open. He's made a similar http://www.progressor.net/review/prog50a.html" rel="nofollow - top 50 for avant prog , and a http://www.progressor.net/review/prog100.html" rel="nofollow - list of 100 for progressive rock . Just in case anyone's curious. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 14:36
 pass.------------- What? |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 15:00
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As a momentary respite from all this heavy metal thing but staying more or less on topic... Where prog / metal and Spinal Tap meet. Spinal Tap is the natural consequence and summation of yer hard rock. Musically it's yet another re write of Kashmir by Diamond Head. But to me the best bit is the title. An unfortunately (or not) fusion crossroads called "Sucking My Love". |
Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 03:36
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I have been intrigued by Sun O))) but no one seems to mention them. They seem to get a lot of critical acclaim and what I have heard ('Monoliths and Dimensions') seems genuinely progressive to my ears (but I guess there's no big drum kit in there...) |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 04:13
Probably even less of a chance if he ever reads the discussion his list made happen.
These have the exact same illogical flaws as the progressive metal list. Among the seemingly random correct ones and the even more blind fanboy-mistakes, I can't honestly believe that anyone would think this is even close to resemble an accurate list of albums has "built progressive rock". I mean there's six Eloy-albums here - while the correct number should be nil/zero/zilch*. And that's only the beginning of my list of complaints that I won't bother getting into. Your friend should rename 100 Albums That Built My Progressive Rock Record Collection or Top 100 Progressive Rock Albums According To My Personal Tastes *what is the correct word to use in english for the number: 0 in this context? |
Posted By: Pennsylvanian
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 16:52
| No Captain Beyond??? |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 08 2016 at 22:26
I have finally completed my list of influential albums that built progressive metal. This is only list 1 and includes the influential albums that led up to the first Watchtower album. A second list of influential prog metal albums to come later
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 08 2016 at 22:49
| I don't have a problem with Black Sabbath being in there (in fact I think they don't get the credit they deserve for being an early inspiration) but I don't think Kansas should be in there. I would replace Kansas with something by Uriah Heep or King Crimson(preferably LTIA or Red). |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 09 2016 at 05:24
I like your list. However, the seeds of Rush's turn to prog began with Fly By Night. That album, moreso than Caress is their transition album, imo. By Caress, and through Hemispheres, they were fully into exploring prog concepts.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 09 2016 at 08:43
You may be right about that. It's been a while since i've given Fly By Night a spin. I'll check it out and might have to slip it in
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 09 2016 at 19:22
| Other than "By tor and the snow dog" there really isn't much on FBN that is very progressive. It still has much the same sound as the debut but with much more sophisticated lyrics. ;) |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 10 2016 at 04:54
Right but that's why I think it's more of a transitional album than Caress. I suppose the argument could be made either way, but with The Necromancer and Fountain of Lamneth on Caress, taking up 32+ minutes of the album, I can't consider that to be a transitional. They were full into it by then.
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:56
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@siLLYpuPPY: an interesting list, even if I'm somewhat puzzled by the chronological void between 1976 and 1980. Anyway, the introduction of Mahavishnu Orchestra, while being unexpected, is also seductive: after all, bands like Cynic, Pestilence or Atheist were seen as adding jazz-rock influences in their death-metal. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:16
Thanks, do you have some suggestions for that gap? I thought about this list long and hard. For example Queen 2 has been suggested but it doesn't really have much on the metal side at that point. They didn't really get their metal groove on until Sheer Heart Attack. There were certainly progressively leaning hard rock albums mostly by Rush in the 76 to 80 timeline but i only listed albums that i thought were firsts in some sort of way. It's not a list of evereything single album that could be considiered influential to progressive metal artists that came later
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:34
Well, I'm not very sure: some quote Black Sabbath's Never Say Die or Technical Ecstasy, but these two LPs had always been criticized (and, speaking for myself, I have never been "caught" by them). BÖC could be added, but their material from this era isn't perfect. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:47
| ^ I considered more Black Sabbath such as 4 or Sabbath Bloody Sabbath but i don't feel that they added anything new that wasn't already present on the debut album. Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy are clearly not contenders. They hardly established any musical breakthrough that upped the level of progressiveness in harder rock and first generation metal. BOC likewise had some progressively tinged early albums but once again they didn't do it first. They were simply copying Sabbath, Uriah Heep and Lucifer's Friend in many ways. Personally i don't find a lot of progressiveness in their albums although i really love the first three and like many others |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2016 at 15:03
| I just realized that i'm missing The Who's Quadropenia. That was also a landmark mix of hard rock and progressive concept rock |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 14 2016 at 08:47
For me, this list is incomplete until QUATERMASS gets added. That album was massive, and even had one of its songs done up later by someone else in this list. Sadly, the list looks like a series of favorites, and not even close to material that should be there from the earlier days of "metal", which has always been around, and could easily be found in LA, SF, NY, Tokyo and Paris in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Even some of the early German cosmic stuff that became called something else could easily fit here, and some of it was considered to be an inspiration for others later. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 14 2016 at 20:54
| ^ I thought about Quatermass but was remembering their album coming out in 71 but it was actually May 70 before In Rock. Good suggestion. Got any others not on my list? It's a rough draft even though i put a lot into it |
Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: November 15 2016 at 00:22
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It might just be me but if anyone asked me what earlier band most closely resembles Dream Theater I would have to say Deep Purple. From the beginning of DT I saw similarities in the energy, in the music and in the styles of both bands. Blackmore/Petrucci, Paice/Portnoy, Gillan/La Brie, Lord/various DT keyboard exponents, Glover/Myung. Certainly DT are harder edged and the sound is more modern but the DP comparisons are just clear to me. My love for DT I guess was spurred by my love of Deep Purple and all of the Purple offshoot bands (Rainbow, Ian Gillan Band etc). I would have to thus place Deep Purple, Rainbow into the equation when considering the Progressive Metal birth, influence cycle. Thus for me a major part of the influence relating to Prog Metal would be Deep Purple along with Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Budgie perhaps to an extent?, Judas Priest, Metallica etc. For me Prog Metal was not metal born but a merging of Prog Rock with Metal. I guess I could make a case that DT aren't a metal band but a hard edged prog rock band that uses metal to a large degree in their sound. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 15 2016 at 01:38
Yes that list is about the most useless we've all ever seen. But - Metal has always been around. I like that. On that note here's Cromagnon Caledonia. Death metal, or is it black metal? - from 1969! Fantastic lyrics as well - which is why I posted the lyric video. On the same album: Orgasm - there's also some funeral doom or drone made decades ahead.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 15 2016 at 06:58
| ^ I love that Cromagnon album. It's truly unlike anything ever. That's a cool track although i don't see any connection to progressive metal i do see an argument for the folk inspired black metal that would emerge in the 90s. Just had some buzz saw guitar, thundering bass and drums and a sick album cover and voila! Darkthrone with a bagpipe! |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 15 2016 at 07:19
| ^ it was more of an half-relevant response rather than suggesting it was the birth of progressive metal or anything like that. Its extremely progressive and innovative for 1969 and arguably bagpipe-metal though. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 15 2016 at 09:07
| You what it reminds me of a bit? AC/DC who made who in melody but bon Scott was also one of the few in hard rock that added bagpipes |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 15 2016 at 13:06
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I like the revised lists, one minor niggle though: I don't think a band should be represented with more than one album, except if the style has changed radically, and these following albums were also influencial. If not, the first album would be the groundstone (thus belonging on the lists), on which the following ones build, which consequencially disqualify themselves in this context. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 17 2016 at 14:11
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How about this? 1. Pictures at an Exhibition 2. The Planets 3. Le Sacre du Printemps 4. Anything from Raymond Scott Quintet 5. The White Album 6. Are you Experienced? 7. Disraeli Gears 8. Shades of Deep Purple 9. Bird of Fire 10. Paranoid 11. Aqualung 12. Nursery Crime 13. Machine Head 14. Sabbath, Bloody, Sabbath 15. Leftoverture 16. Red 17. Fly by Night 18. Ritchie Blackmores Rainbow 19. Sin After Sin (Judas Priest) 20. A Night at the Opera 21. A Farewell to Kings 22. Piece of Mind 23. Morbid Tales (Celtic Frost) 24. At War with Santa (Venom) 25. Ride the Lightning 26. Human (Death) 27. Dimension Hatross (Voivod) 28. Control and Resistance (Watchtower) 29. When Dream and Day Unite 30. Focus (Cynic) 31. Unquestionable Presence (Atheist) 32. Destroy, Erase, Improve 33. Written in Waters (Ved Buens Ende) 34. Still Life 35. Gordian Knot 36. Exivious 37. In a Flesh Aquarium (Unexpect) 38. Star Stücke (Panzerballett) Edit: After seeing silly puppies list from the previous page I must mention Blizzard of Oz as an egregious omission on my part. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: November 17 2016 at 14:29
Damned what am I doing here !? I don't have an album from the first list ! |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 18 2016 at 11:25
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OK, here's my updated list of proto-prog metal influences. Thanks for the suggestions! This is a list of albums that i personally feel were influential in the development of PROGRESSIVE METAL. I realize these are subjective and i totally welcome any other views! But from my experience, these are the albums that i can pinpoint as having the largest impact on the evolution of heavier rock to heavier metal that would ultimately culminate with the what i deem the very first progressive metal album: Watchtower's "Energetic Disassembly." This is a list of albums that were first in introducing new ideas that would later become vital ingredients in the PROGRESSIVE METAL world. This is NOT an exhaustive list of every album that could be considered influential to the subgenre. Also, i'm only including albums from the rock era and not anything classical, jazz or any other genre as PROGRESSIVE METAL is predominantly a rock genre and the aspects of it came from within the world of rock despite other influences
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 18 2016 at 13:17
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^I am curious. Why has early Genesis not made your list? As much as they are considered Symphonic prog in the strictest sense, Phil Collins used the earliest form of the "thrash beat" on The Knife, Music Box, Hogweed and Dance w/Moonlit Knight. Couple that with Hackett's use of taps and various grinding sounds, I consider them one of the earliest employers of Prog metal techniques. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 18 2016 at 13:29
| ^ i guess because those aren't strictly progressive metal elements. They may have been influential to the greater metal universe but "thrash beats" are a genre metal feature while taps, grinding noises etc are just as characteristic of hard rock bands like Van Halen. True that in the big scheme of things they may have had some influence but i don't find it to be a fundamental building block of the greater prog metal universe to come |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 22:03
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Forgot to post this here. This is my latest take on the albums that influenced progressive metal https://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/albums-that-were-fundamental-in-creating-progressive-metal/" rel="nofollow - Albums that were FUNDAMENTAL in creating PROGRESSIVE METAL - Rate Your Music Making a separte list for albums that are true progressive metal that were influential in building the subgenre
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 09:55
I like that list....... -------------   
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Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 14:27
I agree! Great selections, and solid justifications. ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 14:40
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PA had it right the first time. Start with Queensriche, Dream Theater, and Fates Warning and go on from there. We could go back to the Who, Zeppelin, Iron Butterfly, Hendrix, all the way back to the Kinks. Way too much division to sift through, IMO. Proto metal/hard rock, Blues Rock, Acid Rock...where does it end, as I can see no clear beginning.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 16:22
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^ No, I think it's between the two-- you can't start with Dream Theater nor with Zeppelin: it's Voivod, Maiden, Ozzy & Randy, maybe Watchtower. DT formed in '85, well after progressive metal was under way in the Bay Area, London and Quebec. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |