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How to get into jazz (/JRF)?

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Topic: How to get into jazz (/JRF)?
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Subject: How to get into jazz (/JRF)?
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 07:08
Just realized that I know no(thing about) jazz and I wondered where to start. Is jazz even an album-genre?
I reckon fusion could be easier to get into if one is familiar with prog.

So simply I'm asking what kind of artists/sub-genres there are and which are recommended to start with.

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https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"



Replies:
Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 07:23
For prog-jazz, I recommend Soft Machine's Third and Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds of Fire.

For modal jazz, John Coltrane's My Favorite Things and Olé


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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions


Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 07:40
I am no Jazz aficionado but a site called All About Jazz gives some good info on where to start..
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/jazz-where-to-begin-by-aaj-staff.php

For some traditional Jazz,  Dave Brubeck - Take Five and Miles Davis - Kind of Blue may be a good starting point.

For intro into the fusion world, Miles Davis - In a Silent Way and Bitch's Brew as well as some Herbie Hancock.

For the prog/fusion stuff, as mentioned above, Mahavishnu Orchestra and also Passport.  In the RPI world, Area would fit sort of in this category.

Enjoy


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Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 07:42
Thanks for the fast replies guys! Clap 

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https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 08:28
I just wrote a long, boring post on this topic full of personal reflections and every detail of the intricate history of modern jazz from 1940 to the present. 
 
Then I lost it before I could post it Angry Censored Cry Ouch
 
Well, sod typing all that out again. I'm just going to post a few examples of different styles instead.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 08:39
Bebop, the fountainhead of all modern jazz. Started early forties.
 
Listen for Charlie Parker's alto sax break here. People weren't ready for this sh*t:
 
 
How slick is Bud Powell's piano playing here?  This was 1949!
 
 
The unique Thelonius Monk:
 
 
 


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 08:46
I guess Soft Machine and much of the Canterbury scene albums got me liking Jazz and Fusion Prog, but not true, old-school style Jazz......


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:00
Hard bop became a dominant style a little later.  Taking the language of bebop but streamlining and simplifying.
 
If one band epitomised this style it would be Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers.
 
Bobby Timmons' classic, Moanin', drenched in the blues:
 
 
Note how different this bombastic 1960 take on A Night In Tunisia is from Charlie Parker's version of the same tune:
 
 
 


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:08
Cool jazz, a less is more approach pioneered by Miles amongst others:
 
 
The style probably reached its pinnacle here:
 


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:17
In California they took the cool school as a basis and developed their own West Coast sound.
 
 
 


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:21
Very good suggestions so far, I'd go with 

John Coltrane - A Love Supreme & Blue Train
Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue & Bitches Brew
Dave Brubeck - Time Out
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Collossus
Herbie Hancock - Crossing
Thelonius Monk - Brilliant Corners

There's also a very vibrant modern jazz scene at the moment with bands like Nik Bartsch Ronin, Gutbucket, Claudia Quintet, Jaga Jazzist, elephant9, Hidden Orchestra, Kilimanjaro Dark Jazz, Blue Cranes, Pixel, the cellar & point, Ergo, Gogo Penguin, The Necks, Snarky Puppy



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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:24
Some experimented with the combination of jazz and compositional elements from classical music, the so called 'third stream':
 
 
 


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:34
Some questioned why there should be any rules or framework at all for improvisation.
 
The results could be challenging:
 
 
but didn't have to be noisy or difficult:
 
 
 


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:42
Yet others wanted to take things back to basics, emphasising blues, gospel and funk roots - soul jazz.
 
 
 
 
The Hammond organ was put to frequent use in this style:
 


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:45
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Herbie Hancock - Crossing

and if you can't get into that one, go no further, you won't like Jazz.

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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:53


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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 09:54

The avant-garde was not all about just dispensing with composition.

One of my personal favourites of all time:
 
 
This was radical in 1964 and still sounds completely new to me:
 
 
Coltrane was on a path of his own:
 
 
 


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 10:02
If you really want to see a bunch of progheads talking jazz there's a 1300 post thread on PE dedicated to Jazz

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/2649-JAZZ-Discussion" rel="nofollow - http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/2649-JAZZ-Discussion


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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 10:05
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Herbie Hancock - Crossing

and if you can't get into that one, go no further, you won't like Jazz.
 
I don't agree with that. Jazz has far too many facets for any one piece of music or album to be a simple litmus test. I'm sure there are countless fans of different aspects of jazz who wouldn't / don't care for Crossings.
 
Though personally I love it Thumbs Up


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 10:13
I tend to agree, I'm not really into the early stuff like Glen Miller, Charlie Parker & Duke Ellington. The 50's & 60's with Coltrane, Mingus, Davis, Brubeck, Collins, Monk is really a golden couple of decades for me. I like a lot of the Fusion that came in the 70's and a lot of the avant, minimalist & experimental stuff thats around now. But I could never stand free jazz.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 10:50
I couldn't ask for more eh?
Very many thanks, will defenitely go through it all.

I think I can already say that I don't really like a too "lazy" sound, but I really like some of the suggestions here.

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https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 13:12
Lots of great jazz listed here but the original question also mentioned Jazz Rock/Fusion.

Soft Machine - Bundles  (Allan Holdsworth on guitar)
Soft Machine - Softs  (John Etheridge on guitar
Colosseum ll - Electric Savage  (Gary Moore on guitar)
Billy Cobham - Spectrum
Return To Forever - Romantic Warrior
Return To Forever - Where Have I Known You Before
Nova - Blink

...just a few of my favorites off the top of my head.


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 13:20


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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 13:50
Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

I couldn't ask for more eh?
Very many thanks, will defenitely go through it all.

I think I can already say that I don't really like a too "lazy" sound, but I really like some of the suggestions here.

I can see what you are saying but try not to look at some of it as "lazy" sound. I listen to a lot of jazz, mainly late 50's and 60's era. Very little 30's to 40's, but that history is critical to understand with the development of jazz. Another suggestion is to watch the documentary Jazz by Ken Burns, he explores the deep roots of jazz and its origins, it's been playing on PBS TV lately. The documentary is from 2000 narrated by Keith David.....Its a great program.

KoB (Kind of Blue) can be considered what you call "lazy" sound, but once you understand why you will quickly realize why it is probably the greatest jazz recording session of all time.

A suggestion, may sound quirky but try it.......Do a jazz listening session at night, when your mind is free from daily krapp like work or chores, just sit and listen, its critical to "hearing" jazz and what the musicians were doing.

have fun!


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Posted By: Ozark Soundscape
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 14:27
Some good starters:
The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
John Coltrane in general
Frank Zappa and The Mothers - The Grand Wazoo

Stanley Clarke - School Days
Various Miles Davis albums; make sure to hear one or two from each of his general "phases"
Charles Mingus - The
Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
Soft Machine - Third



Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 14:39
As many have mentioned it depends on the type of jazz....I go for more melodic things.....Pat Metheny is excellent , first 2 Mahavishnu's, RTF-Hymn of  the Seventh Galaxy and Romantic Warrior, Coltrane- Sound, Giant Steps, and Favorite Things, Eberhard Weber, Oregon.......so many excellent bands and artists.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 14:41
Gotta get some Mingus into ya!



This is probably my #1 jazz live album.

For prog jazz, Soft Machine, Nucleus, East Of Eden, Mahavishnu and Colosseum.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 14:45
If you like piano.....my personal go to is McCoy Tyner...try The Real McCoy.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 16:07
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

A suggestion, may sound quirky but try it.......Do a jazz listening session at night, when your mind is free from daily krapp like work or chores, just sit and listen, its critical to "hearing" jazz and what the musicians were doing.

have fun!

I might actually be doing this some time, I know a jazz trombonist (that's partly what awoken my interest) and I'd like to hear him play again at some gig.


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https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"


Posted By: bankstatement
Date Posted: April 22 2016 at 16:53
I'll try to cover most of the genres of jazz I can. I included some albums of theirs to try out. Though most of these guys have a relatively steady and good discography, so you can check out their other albums as well.

- John Coltrane (Avant-Garde jazz, A Love Supreme. Also Hard Bop, Giant Steps)
- Miles Davis (Modal jazz, Kind of Blue. Also fusion, In a Silent Way & Bitches Brew)
- Herbie Hancock (Funkier fusion, Head Hunters)
- Mahavishnu Orchestra (Proggier fusion, The Inner Mounting Flame & Birds of Fire)
- Charles Mingus (Avant-Garde jazz, The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady)
- Sonny Rollins (Hard Bop, Saxophone Colossus)
- Pharoah Sanders (Spiritual jazz, Karma)
- Wayne Shorter (Post-Bop, Speak No Evil)
- Soft Machine (Fusion/Canterbury Scene, Third)
- Frank Zappa (Fusion, Hot Rats)

Other popular fusion bands (since you mention fusion) include Weather Report (and its members), Return to Forever, and Brand X. Oregon is also a favorite of mine.

Hope this helps! Smile If you need more info/recs let me know.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 23 2016 at 00:34
This has become a recommendations thread which is fine, except the thing about jazz is that it is (or was) a music that was created as it occurred, as it was played; Most jazz LPs up to about 1960 were not albums as we understand them, but rather the best of what was captured of an artist or ensemble during a given session or on a certain day.   Jazz recordings were largely retroverted packages, not the conceived-of and polished product we get now (even in jazz). 

So as to Pascal's inquest, jazz is a very long roadtrip, and that's the point.   Jazzrock/Fusion is quite a different animal and would indeed, or often does, appeal to proggies more easily than trad or modern jazz, and doesn't really reflect the jazz experience or approach.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 23 2016 at 03:08
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Very good suggestions so far, I'd go with 

John Coltrane - A Love Supreme & Blue Train
Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue & Bitches Brew
Dave Brubeck - Time Out
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Collossus
Herbie Hancock - Crossing
Thelonius Monk - Brilliant Corners

There's also a very vibrant modern jazz scene at the moment with bands like Nik Bartsch Ronin, Gutbucket, Claudia Quintet, Jaga Jazzist, elephant9, Hidden Orchestra, Kilimanjaro Dark Jazz, Blue Cranes, Pixel, the cellar & point, Ergo, Gogo Penguin, The Necks, Snarky Puppy



I can think of one major artiste you're forgetting in this list, probably the one that's closest to prog:

Charles Mingus - Black Saint and Lady Sinner

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Herbie Hancock - Crossing

and if you can't get into that one, go no further, you won't like Jazz.
 
I don't agree with that. Jazz has far too many facets for any one piece of music or album to be a simple litmus test. I'm sure there are countless fans of different aspects of jazz who wouldn't / don't care for Crossings.
 
Though personally I love it Thumbs Up


Crossings and Sextant are high in the JR fusion/avant-garde with a slight Free Jazz slant. One of my favesClap... But indeed, saying that one won't get into jazz if he doesn't like this album is highly misleaing, IMHO.

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I tend to agree, I'm not really into the early stuff like Glen Miller, Charlie Parker & Duke Ellington. The 50's & 60's with Coltrane, Mingus, Davis, Brubeck, Collins, Monk is really a golden couple of decades for me. I like a lot of the Fusion that came in the 70's and a lot of the avant, minimalist & experimental stuff thats around now. But I could never stand free jazz.


Indeed, though my jazz starts roughly in 59 ... and in some ways stops around 79, though just like prog, there is a certain second coming of the thing and there are really outstanding releases since 2005 or so.

Before 59, I must say that I can't really get into the Bops and Cool Jazz thing, , ragtime and New Orleans type jazz bore me, (though I do like the odd swing-type tracks , but after 10 minutes... Sleepy). Big band bores me as well, though i must say that some day, I will have to reassess Duke Ellington someday. But I llove some of the stuff Gil Evans did.

As for free-jazz, one has to see how the term evolved through the years: at first, Ornette Coleman came up with the term in the early 60's, but it's quite accessible to most of us nowadays... Even most late 60's and early 70's stuff (like Trane's Ascenscion, Pharoah or Shepp) are listenable, if in the right frame of mind...

I'd say that free-jazz became really tough during the mid-70's, once it became totally dissonant abnd atonal





Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 23 2016 at 03:17
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

This has become a recommendations thread which is fine, except the thing about jazz is that it is (or was) a music that was created as it occurred, as it was played; Most jazz LPs up to about 1960 were not albums as we understand them, but rather the best of what was captured of an artist or ensemble during a given session or on a certain day.   Jazz recordings were largely retroverted packages, not the conceived-of and polished product we get now (even in jazz). 

So as to Pascal's inquest, jazz is a very long roadtrip, and that's the point.   Jazzrock/Fusion is quite a different animal and would indeed, or often does, appeal to proggies more easily than trad or modern jazz, and doesn't really reflect the jazz experience or approach.




Yes, even in the 60's, the albums were often made of one or two fairly or totally different sessions, often with totally different line-ups ... This can be very detrimental to coherence or ch-ohesion of the album's sound and contents ... Of course, it didn't help that the artistes often worked for two labels (if not more), like Coltrane worked for Atlantic, Impulse! and Prestige for a few months


Pascal, may I suggest you take a peak att our suister site Jazz Music Archives... Feel free to join the frum (it's a majority of PA members there anyways) and you'll be many help to find your way through. However, the posting rate on the forum is nowhere near as intense as here... Some days, you only get 5 posts/day

http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 23 2016 at 07:57
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


I can think of one major artiste you're forgetting in this list, probably the one that's closest to prog:

Charles Mingus - Black Saint and Lady Sinner


I'm not really sure why I don't have that yet, it keeps cropping up on lists but I have yet to grab it.


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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 23 2016 at 08:26
^ One of my alltime jazz faves. Pretty sure you'll love it Ian - I'd even bet a few beets.

How to get into jazz? Pick up a bottle of whiskey, drink it - put on Pharoah Sanders' Elevation.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: April 23 2016 at 15:13
I'll have to get back here to hear Simon's samples. Nice explanation Thumbs Up I started listening to Jazz two years ago so I'm not the best person to give advice, but I've been going to JMA to read some reviews and learn about all the different genres. I've also been going to the local Jazz club too and I feel like it has been important to understand the genre: it's much easier to hear/see what musicians do, and it's critical according to José Wink


Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: April 24 2016 at 02:56
I agree with pretty much everything posted here so far.. 

To try to add to the list I suggest trying Dexter Gordon's Go album. It shouldn't be hard to digest



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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 24 2016 at 03:27
Been thinking about this a bit and come to the conclusion that to a complete jazz newbie, who additionally is heavily into prog, it is probably best to approach this branch of music from a fusion direction. That way you get the familiarity of a rock foundation and at least a whiff of jazz.

Easy digestible fusion acts coming up:

Brand X (Phil Collins' means of showboating)
   

Eberhard Weber (Fusion meets symphonic)


Soft Machine (On the album 'Softs' diving into some rather delicious and melodic fusion)


Jazz artists, who aren't featured on PA (and shouldn't be imho) also experimented with the rock template. Many before me have mentioned Miles, and rightly so, as he more or less started this whole thing with 'In a Silent Way' (and even earlier than that imo showing signs of what was to come with albums such as Filles de Kilimanjaro and Sorcerer), but there were most definitely others out there doing equally thrilling things. 

Sun Ra fx (Lanquidity is a must if you're into fusion)


Pharoah Sanders (the live album 'Elevation' shows strong signs of rock)


Bob James (most prog fans I know (who are into jazz that is) absolutely adore his 'One' album)




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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: April 24 2016 at 06:16
I'm having two weeks off of school and so I'll have plenty of time to listen. An album I liked is Modern Jazz Quartet - Third Stream Music, because it seems like composed mostly and not too much free improvisation, which will take some time to grow on me. Fusion seems like a great option to start too; actually what I was thinking at first too.

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https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 24 2016 at 09:00
Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

I'm having two weeks off of school and so I'll have plenty of time to listen. An album I liked is Modern Jazz Quartet - Third Stream Music, because it seems like composed mostly and not too much free improvisation, which will take some time to grow on me.
 
If you like that, then in similar vein I recommend The Modern Jazz Society Presents a Concert of Contemporary Music.
 
And if you like the MJQ's sound generally there's plenty more where that came from - they stuck together for 40+ years and made a lot of pretty good records (though a few would probably be enough for most - their sound and approach didn't vary much).


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 24 2016 at 19:20
Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

I'm having two weeks off of school and so I'll have plenty of time to listen. An album I liked is Modern Jazz Quartet - Third Stream Music, because it seems like composed mostly and not too much free improvisation, which will take some time to grow on me.

Great idea, maybe this --

Blues on Bach.jpg



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 24 2016 at 19:32
Just bought

Charles Mingus - The Black Saint & The Sinner Lady
Herbie Hancock - Sextant

Always filling gaps :)


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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 25 2016 at 03:10
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Just bought

Charles Mingus - The Black Saint & The Sinner Lady
Herbie Hancock - Sextant

Always filling gaps :)


If you like Sextant (I think you'll love it), Crossings is just as outstanding (less Gleason electronics ghizmo though) and you can also try Mwandishi (too bad that artwork is so bland, though).... they're a three of a kind)


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 25 2016 at 06:03
I already have Mwandishi & Crossing and like them both.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 25 2016 at 07:12
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I already have Mwandishi & Crossing and like them both.


sextant is one notch up, IMHO, just like Crossing was one notch up from Mwandishi.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 25 2016 at 13:20
^ Bennie Maupin ruling on the kazoo


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 05:59
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

^ Bennie Maupin ruling on the kazoo
 
Bennie adds so much depth on Mwandishi, but on Bitches Brew as well...


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 08:50
A fine album (yes it IS an album's-type-genre) is Soultrane - John Coltrane particualrly the number Good Bait.

Btw traditional jazz is 12 bar based jazz, be bop is has a theme or head there after the improvisation develops - or not... big band is precision arranged stuff, very different from be bop.

You can get a life time of adventure and indeed some very hard core stuff with Duke Ellington - not just the Newport Festival gig... his pal Count Basie has loads of good stuff.

My favourite is Miles. Check the Cookin' Steamin, Relaxin' and Workin' albums compiled from 2 sessions. These are available in hi res though I've not seen them. But these with his band including Coltrane have an inventive melodic attitude rarely equalled. This was when he recorded for the Prestige label all recordings compiled in a box set that really tells a story of 40s and 50s NY(mainly) based jazz. His recordings for Columbia such as Kind of Blue (is to jazz what The Dark Side of The Moon is to progressive rock)... Miles uses new techniques and the music is intimate and sublime.

If you need (you do) quality guitar music in jazz then that means Joe Pass. The Viruoso 5 CDs (3 single) 1 double explores 2 of his three primary existences. Solo (exquisite melody via fingerstyle jazz) and his fine band work (same guys for years). His other area is collaborations with trumpeter JJ Johnson and some albums with Ella Fitzgerald.

Fusion - well after a whole lotta cool jazz hearing fusion with a rock back beat made me reaize why the jazz nuts disliked it so much. It was like a constant banging where there used to be nuance and suggestion. Still a good bit of Stanley Clake (School Days) never hurt anyone.

Charlie Mingus has 2 versions (now) of Mingus Ah Um. This is his Kind Of Blue . DSOTm you get the idea... The old LP is wonderful intimate album and the remastered version on 2 CDs is that a bit more and another album. Both versions are well worth having piling up the collection of albums.

Charlie Parker is prbably best represented (and I am very willing and happy to take advice here) but a 1 CD by doco producer Ken Burns is one of the best recordings of his I have heard. His recordings mainly exist in from the 40s and are often very far from hi fi. But his sax was a unique instrumental voice and Miles began his career with Mr Parker. Perhaps if anyone's keen the multi CD studio recordings are a worthwhile purchase?

Now I know free jazz gets an, er, interesting reputation. Heaven knows it is one of the last forms I really want to listen to - Coltrane's Ascension really is not the everyone makes up noise as you go along but a highly technical suite of music. But it is not welcoming. Its as unsentimental as you can get in music and probablly good to put on to get rid of unwanted house guests.

Still Coltrane used a little free jazz in some latterday releases by his wife Alice. He had some marvelllous tunes and used the dissonance to transition between pieces. I'd try Soultrane and Love Supreme (Magma covered that) first though.

However free jazz pioneer Ornette Coleman (beaten up once at least for his free jazz back in the peace loving '60s) has a marvelous and melodic album called Love Revolution. An interesting little game can be played with that. It's called spot the Pink Floyd sax lick as here and there a telling phrase makes it's origins to Dick Parry known.

The things is with jazz is that it has been around for just over 100 years and gone through genre defining eras. There has been some new things such as acid jazz but it seems like the whole spectrum from New Orleans to Swing, Be Bop, Cool, Fusion has been set. I'd go for tha major players and either the recommednded albums or a good anthology to get an idea of someone's music. You may, as ever stop with one or two or move through someone's career.

Where to start or stop with Oscar Peterson for example? He did a very interesting album with Joe Pass. Porgy and Bess with him on Clavichord and Pass on guitar. It's interesting but the medieval clavinet is a little teeth grating for me. Not quite as much as  the rather rare Mozart (Glass) Harp Concerto but still one more regarded as an adventure than a mainstay. Pass is, as almost always, superb.

Theloious Monk's Brillaint Corners is in many ways both an adventure and mainstay type album.

What's the preferred lead instrument? Sax, trumpet? Piano? Guitar, bass drums. A dozen albums won't do it... trust me. Big band? Small band? Me I like small bands. I actually prefer Miles second quintet though his first with Prestige may be the most unbeatable.

Have fun. ;)
 








Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 09:38
After reading this and all other comments I kind of get a little grip on jazz history, thanks guys.
I like a small band too, preferred instrument is piano and guitar. I'm now trying all kinds of things and all I can say is that I'll need quite some time to get into it.

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https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 13:20
I don't listen to much jazz at home, but I love it live. A totally different approach from going through classic styles and albums is to look at the programme of some local clubs and venues, check on youtube the odd song from a band that comes up when you have time, and if you like it go.
I have seen and enjoyed a lot of "random" live jazz in this way.
As somebody wrote before, most jazz is for the moment in which it is played.
Small venues often mean good sound, and you've got to be able to play your instrument well if you want to do jazz, that's some ingredients for a good live experience.


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 13:26
Small venue live jazz is definitely the best way to experience it.

-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 13:42
^ Absolutely, the best way to experience jazz is definitely live. It's one of my rules of jazz that when you go and see a band and you don't have their CD, then you buy it because they were great, the CD will ALWAYS disappoint. I mean it could be an excellent CD, but you can't record that alchemy.

I still buy the CDs though


Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: April 26 2016 at 18:29
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:



Where to start or stop with Oscar Peterson for example? He did a very interesting album with Joe Pass. Porgy and Bess with him on Clavichord and Pass on guitar. It's interesting but the medieval clavinet is a little teeth grating for me. Not quite as much as  the rather rare Mozart (Glass) Harp Concerto but still one more regarded as an adventure than a mainstay. Pass is, as almost always, superb.


Great post of some of the Jazz background!  I always enjoyed Oscar Peterson collaboration with Milt Jackson (vibraphone) on the album Very Tall.  So cool...


Thanks to this thread I have gotten back into some of the jazz albums that I have not listened to in a while, Charles Mingus' Ah Um and others.  Also did not know of a sister web site called Jazz Archives, which is now added to my favorites list.



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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: April 27 2016 at 05:24
Speaking of live, once upon a time - which happened to be about the first time I saw Yes at MSG on the Union tour I nearly also got to see Joe Pass down in the Village. Heard about that gig and was down there very quick, especially for me. A bouncer opened the door I saw Pass for a few seconds then the door shut. Not even oxygen was getting in there and certainly not me.

Fastest and briefest gig I ever saw.




Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 27 2016 at 11:29
Went to see Gogo Penguin is Boston last night, heavy driving minimalist jazz trio from Manchester UK, was about 100 people there all standing, grooving along, really good night out.

https://gogopenguin.bandcamp.com/album/v20" rel="nofollow - https://gogopenguin.bandcamp.com/album/v20






-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 28 2016 at 03:42
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Went to see Gogo Penguin is Boston last night, heavy driving minimalist jazz trio from Manchester UK, was about 100 people there all standing, grooving along, really good night out.

https://gogopenguin.bandcamp.com/album/v20" rel="nofollow - https://gogopenguin.bandcamp.com/album/v20




 
Glad you loved it..Smile. As I told you on the other side, I will do the same (I'm sure) on May 13th in Liège.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 28 2016 at 09:49
Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

Just realized that I know no(thing about) jazz and I wondered where to start. Is jazz even an album-genre?
I reckon fusion could be easier to get into if one is familiar with prog.

So simply I'm asking what kind of artists/sub-genres there are and which are recommended to start with.

To me, it's all music, and expression, and a "definition" has a way to take away from its freedom and exemplary visualization and flight of inner fancy.

I mean ... I don't know how I can tell you that Miles Davis does not trip up my mind any more or less than Amon Duul 2 does ... I prefer Amon Duul 2 as I am more rock oriented, but that scream/cry/comment from the heavens asking for you to "listen" ... is just as valuable as anything else in music.

My only recommendation is ... stop worrying about it being anything and creating "barriers" in your definitions of music ... as soon as you do this, you lose a lot of the ability and interest for hearing different things, and that is one thing you do not want to do to any ART out there!

Make your choice ... go for the soul of it all ... or quit right now?


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 08 2016 at 15:18
I would like to recommend:

Dzyan-Time Machine
Dedalus-Dedalus
Passport-Doldinger
Passport-Cross-Collateral
Giger Lenz Marron-Beyond
Terje Rypdal-What Comes After
Contraband-Time And Space
Spyro Gyra-Spyro Gyra
Kristian Schultze Set-Recreation
If-If 3
Colosseum-Valentyne Suite



Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 09 2016 at 20:37
Was at the release party for Nik Bartsch Mobile - Continuum in New York on Friday at the Rubin Museum. Small venue, 200 seats, sold out, all acoustic set, no amplification, Piano, bass sax/contrabass sax, drums & percussion. The full new album played for 1 hr 15 min and a 15 minute encore. Stunningly wonderful performance with pristine sound, crowd absolutely rapt, completely silent with no distractions until the piece ended to a standing ovation. Had a wonderful time, one of the best concerts in recent memory.

-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Wirebender
Date Posted: December 11 2016 at 14:27
Late to the party, but better late than never.

Some great recommendations of both masterpiece albums and classic recordings.  Here's a few interesting ones that might have been overlooked:

Charles Mingus -- Ah Um (ahhhhh)
Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich -- The Drum Battle (two of the greatest percussionists of all time)
Stan Getz -- anything from the mid 50s through to 1963s Getz and Gilberto (a classic sound with the butteriest sax you've ever heard)
Stan Getz and Lionel Hampton -- Hamp and Getz (vibraphone with captivating sax)
Herbie Hancock -- Empyrean Isles (uniquely perfect)
Yusef Lateef -- Eastern Sounds (beautifully unique instrumentation)
Louis Armstrong -- Night Train (greatest pianist of all time)
Eric Dolphy -- Out To Lunch (free jazz)
The Vince Guaraldi Trio -- A Charlie Brown Christmas (the perfect holiday album)
Kamasi Washington -- The Epic (a hugely ambitious 2015 release)

Enjoy!!





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