Would a Gay man feel comfortable in PA?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Topics not related to music
Forum Name: General discussions
Forum Description: Discuss any topic at all that is not music-related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104693
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 05:49
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Topic: Would a Gay man feel comfortable in PA?
Posted By: RayRo
Subject: Would a Gay man feel comfortable in PA?
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:03
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Despite the many wonderful welcomes and encouraging answers I received in my other post asking if Gays and Lesbians are welcome in PA, as an openly gay man, I would have to say that I do not feel welcome. There were some glaring red flags that cropped up both within that post and externally. For example, there was not a single mention of a LGBT discussion group existing in any of the peripheral Prog Archives "non music" forums. There were "threads" that discussed everything from the 2015 NFL season to a non ending "thread" on Libertarianism. But no "thread" discussing Gay and Lesbian rights and their political concerns. Why? There was also an instance of a longtime "collaborator" who mentioned that he was gay and was surprised that my question even came up. Again, I ask why? There also seemed, by the person's site name, of either an anonymous transsexual or transgender person. I could be wrong about this, but as an LGBTQ advocate, I have a lot of experience in these matters and have to go by an educated guess. And this broad based posture of anonymity is paramount to me. Prog Archives is not some bigoted discussion forum, but I feel that cultural norms and practices of the 20th Century, such welcoming gays but not actually discussing the "who, what, where and why's" is what is still dominant in the 21st Century for this site. If PA wants to welcome Gays and Lesbians, it has to show more tolerance that simply saying we're welcome. |
Replies:
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:12
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as a long-time member of prog archives I have to tell you that you are very much mistaken. there have been many comments on the development of LGBT rights in here. I suggest you look in the "news of the day" section -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:13
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Wow. Okay, let me say this. As someone who lives and grew up in San Francisco I've probably had a few more gay friends and neighbors than many average straight people (though that is of course changing for the better). And as a central force in the Gay Rights movement, my proud city was instrumental in moving things forward. If you want there to be a LGBT Rights thread, then start one yourself. It would probably be welcomed with open arms and provide some fresh discussion. You have to be the mover. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:17
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Do I understand you correctly if you say we should discuss the rights of gay men here more? IMHO it doesn't matter in any way to me what anyone's sexual preference is. There is a lesbian couple both very excited about this forum. We have even discussed pretty much on these subjects. There's no reason to not feel welcome, it's almost socially forbidden here to say you dislike gay people. I think (actually hoped) I missed your point here. ------------- |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:18
Cologne, where I live, is to Germany what SF is to the USA in terms of the LGBT community. I had the good luck to (almost) live in SF as well for a long time; just across the bridge in Oakland ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Atavachron wrote:Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:22
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Are you trolling or is this serious? It's a music forum full of individuals posting on topics they want to talk about. If you want to start a LGBT thread then you are more than welcome to. Not only is nobody going to stop you but I'm sure many people here would join the discussion. That there hasn't been a vibrant, constantly active, thread to your liking doesn't make you some kind of victim, though, so stop acting talking like it. You aren't owed anything just because you consider yourself different. I could care less about your race, gender, or sexual orientation. You're a fellow human being, with the same rights as the rest of us. No more, no less. -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:27
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just go here, for example. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57506&KW=LGBT&PID=5190048#5190048" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57506&KW=LGBT&PID=5190048#5190048 ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:33
I would suggest, if they haven't, that they first start a private general dialogue with each other and then move on to a public dialogue with one another in one of PA's peripheral non music "threads." It's the year 2015. 1985 was quite a long time ago. My best to you all in moving forward.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:35
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What an absolute joke. You consider yourself different so everyone here has to bend over backwards to try to satisfy you? Ridiculous There isn't a scrap of bigotry here, except yours. ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:38
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this thread was started when Baldfriede and I, a lesbian couple, were injured in a car crash almost 10 years ago. read this thread; it should get the idea that gay and lesbian people are not welcome here out of your mind http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20539&KW=get+well&PID=1901153#1901153" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20539&KW=get+well&PID=1901153#1901153 ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:40
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You shouldn't conflate intolerance with a lack of discussion of specific LGBT issues. I think to do so reveals more of your own biases than those of the site. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Ozark Soundscape
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:40
Just because we aren't screaming HEY WE LOVE GAY PEOPLE doesn't mean we aren't welcoming you. Don't expect everyone to throw you a parade; throw one, yourself. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:54
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as a German proverb says: "as you shout into the forest so it sounds back". when you put on a sourpuss and start accusing the members of this forum that they don't like LGBT-people they will certainly not like you. this has, however, nothing whatever to do with your sexual orientation but to the way you behave in here. having nothing against LGBT people per se does not mean we have to like ALL people in the LGBT community, just as we don't like every heterosexual person ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:59
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Sadness. Very sad to hear this. This is a music site first and foremost, so your musical tastes are what is paramount. All else is secondary as it should be. We have general discussion threads. Anyone it seems would be welcome to start one. If no one else has done so (and I'm not sure that they haven't. Someone needs to check on this. I'm really not sure this is factual), then what can one say? No one will be offended by the presence of one. I share the collaborators surprise that the question came up because being familiar with the forum and the people in it, it is well known that there is a LGBT presence and that the cosmopolitan nature of the forum is what makes it a great forum. Most people here are anonymous, including those who are not LGBT. I would still like to know your music interests and if you actually are a Prog music fan, given that you have only 9 points, it seems you have not, posted much in other threads. I could be quite wrong, but it sounds a lot more like you are doing a research paper on LGBT acceptance in web forums than actually participating constructively on the forum. |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:00
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I have spoken the truth. People who do not understand what a "culture" is cannot hope to change one. I am done here. I wish you well BaldJean.
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:04
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Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:11
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:12
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I personally think it is not we who have issues with him being gay, it is himself. he appears to be extremely self-conscious about it ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Ozark Soundscape
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:15
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Looks like we got ourselves a martyr. Dude, the only one persecuting you is yourself. You're the one alienating yourself from the site. I can't recall ever seeing anything homophobic, transphobic, or any anti-LGBTA posts on this site, let alone any recently. Sorry if you feel otherwise. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:15
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I think the fact that this forum, explicitly dedicated to progressive rock music, made you feel unwelcome because it didn't contain threads about LGBT issues probably says more about you and your insecurities than the other members of this forum. You, along with everyone else that is willing to respect the rules of the forum, are very welcome here. You are entitled and encouraged to make a thread about LGBT issues if you wish. We have many LGBT members that are very happy here and cannot report ever being mistreated because of their sexual and/or gender identification. I honestly don't know what more can be done. But at this point, it's probably best for you to move on and find a website that better meets your needs. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:23
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I am a proud Hispanic....but have no issues in the fact that there is no "ongoing thread" about the Hispanic/Latino community on PA. One beauty of an internet forum is that unless specifically stated, we have no clue of what gender, race, religion, sexual preference a member might have..Since I first joined PA in 2009 I have never felt unwelcome here, and I see no reason why you should. But if you feel the need to have an agenda on LGBT, please feel free to start a thread on it. Just so we are clear this site is a music site, first and foremost....... -------------   
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Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:23
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:26
I think in that one line you assume a few things too many. This is a site that welcome music fans with a certain affection for music that can be described as progressive rock. It is the taste in music that is the central concept, not who we are in our lives outside of that interest. We could of course opens subject threads that welcomes gays, transgenders, abuse survivors, the physically challenged, short people, previous addicts, people with diabetes, overweight people, people suffering from various mental conditions etc. etc. etc. etc. - but when you start to define who is welcome, there will always be a group that would then feel they are not welcome. By not defining that any group is especially welcome, that's actually the most fair and tolerant treatment you could give anyone who belong to a category of people that have been or are the subject of various kinds of abuse in the world at large and thus feels or actually are in a vulnerable situation. This is, after all, a music forum, and the focus is on that. If someone starts being abusive, it should be reported, so that the person or persons who do use the forum for abusive behavior will have to face the consequences of that. And if anyone wants to start a discussion with the aim to form a group in here based on other matters than music, they are free to do so. With certain limitations of course, I sincerely doubt that any discussion seeking to assemble people aligned with the KKK would live for more than a few minutes before being banned from here to eternity - to put it that way. We're inclusive, but not that inclusive. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:29
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Sorry but the lack of a specific discussion thread on the subject doesn't mean absolutely anything. In fact, check the political threads and I'm sure you'll find some discussion of LGBT rights. Damn, we don't have a discussion thread about the holocaust. Are we all Nazis? ------------- 
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Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:32
I understand your message Catcher10 and will seriously think about what you have said. That goes for Mr. Windhawk (?) too.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:33
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We have no threads on the #BlackLivesMatter movement. Conclusion: PA is basically a subset of the Ku Klux Klan -------------
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Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:33
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PA - 1 The "Everybody gets a trophy!" failed parenting generation - 0 |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:35
As I said in this other discussion regarding the same subject, running concurrently with this thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104656&PID=5250552#5250552" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104656&PID=5250552#5250552 I am uninterested in other posters' sexual proclivities. This is, after all, a music forum, so people's opinions regarding music are far more germane than where you park your pecker. You are making much ado about nothing; in fact, it seems you are more concerned with roiling the waters than steering your canoe.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:36
Believe me I read every word and I got the totality of it, which I think is one of the things that bothered me. You point out PA is not some bigoted discussion forum ~ presumably like, what, Rednecks&Rifles.com ~ and then complain that isn't enough. You want more, but then describe in vague, disappointed terms what exactly that means to you. Those sorts of questions are what you could've posted and stimulated some interesting things rather than just pissed-off and adolescent disillusionment. Express yourself, anticipate all, create, progress, live. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:39
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RayRo, I sent you a PM. you should read it. I actually think it is just the other way round. if this site had a thread somewhere saying something like "we do of course welcome all members of the LGBT community" or the likes I would ask myself: why do they have to mention this? isn't that something that should be taken for granted? I would feel somewhat suspicious if it were explicitly mentioned. "of course you are welcome in my net" said the spider to the fly ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:40
Good!! Now who is your favorite prog artist????  -------------
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:41
I have considered making one before, but I haven't because I haven't wanted one enough I guess. If you'd like one feel free to make one. It won't be private, but you can always ask for mod intervention if you feel it necessary. I've personally never seen any anti-LGBT sentiment anywhere on the site, and as far as LGBT oriented posts it's just not an issue that is explicitly brought up, due to it being a heavily music oriented site. It is occasionally brought up but it's never been negative as far as I can recall. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not entirely sure what changes you would like to see on the site. |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:44
The important thing to me is to put the truth out there. If people can recognize it and change, then more power to them. If it falls on deaf ears or gets sidetracked, is there any loss?
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:48
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The important thing to you is to provoke, and you have succeeded rather well. But that's not a very hard thing to do, is it?
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:48
Nothing very radical, aside from that.
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Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:49
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:50
I've noticed your agenda seemingly has nothing whatsoever to do with music, or prog music. You have made in excess of 15 posts, and not one mention of progressive music. Would you care to discuss music or are you more interested in being tedious? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:51
If you feel the use of aliases is an issue, my real world name is clearly stated in my profile - there's a dropdown menu on the profile picture you see in these discussion forums that lets you see each users profile. For my sake with a link to my Facebook page if you should be more curious about who I am. Oh, and Mr. is right, the Windhawk nickname was chosen due to it being an anagram of a band I happen to like. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:52
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I will take all that's been said to me and think about it. At least the stuff that wasn't too insulting. LOL. Goodnight.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:53
um.. I'm a bit baffled by this. what is this "truth" you are referring to? ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:54
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:56
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the windhawk should be obvious; just swap "wind" and "hawk", and you get Hawkwind ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:58
Showoff. 
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:05
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Hawkwind actually had a bisexual band member back in the 70's too ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:07
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:07
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RayRo, you still haven't opened the PM I sent you. you should ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:09
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I feel a bit lost. Some time ago there was a thread called "Is prog rock for heteros only?) (something like that), and, at the begning, the guy were mocked, actually. Then I started to speak and everyone get to a synthesis. What I want to say is: Yes, we should have a thread for the LGBT here, I want to, at least (and we needed). But I dont think that so much discussion was necessary, a simple PM for the members that have declered themselves as gay/lesbians would have take away the doubts. ONE THING IMPORTANT: when we're talking with a opressed minority (as LGBT is) IT DOESNT DO MUCH to simply say "It doesnt matter wheter you're gay or not". THE WORLD CARES/MATTER. I live in a country where everyday someone dies for its sexual ORIENTATION (not "preference"), your personal opinion does not change the world - otherwise, this would be a false equality. So, lets go slow, step by step and try not to just "win the discussion" and yes build something different together. ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:09
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Depends on the chair you're sitting on ------------- "Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl." |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:10
About trolls or something like that: I always expect the best of people, so, please, lets be serious and try to reach some point.  ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:28
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When Jean and I were injured in a car crash almost ten years ago (from which we completely recovered except for the scars) there was a special "Get well" thread for us. Not because or although we are a lesbian couple, just because we are members of this community. I sincerely doubt anyone would have minded if we liked to be tied up and whipped. What we do for our sexual pleasures is not important here. Important is the conduct on this website, and even though we sometimes were of a different opinion than others on this forum and argued quite hotly with them we were civil about it. That's why we are respected here, not because of or despite our sexual orientation. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:49
I am going to say some bigoted things in my following comments but I am a straight man in his 40's who admits that I do feel strange in the presence of the LGBT community. The concept of two men together as a couple is just foreign to my way of thinking. Although being the degenerate that I am, two women together as a couple is fine.  Part of it being that I like women so I can see why other people would like women. Whereas, quite frankly "men are pigs" and some times I don't understand why women would even want to be with them let alone another man. I also don't get the idea of being trapped in the body of the wrong sex and putting one's body through drug and surgery therapy to change one's body to match who we think we are. (My apologies to Patricia Queen By-Tor).This being said, I am not religious and do not have some sort of view of these relationships being immoral. And although I am somewhat uncomfortable discussing the subject, I am a true believer in the "to each their own" line of thinking...i.e. whatever floats your boat. I fully support people being happy. I don't know if it is a biological or a choice decision, and quite frankly it doesn't really make a difference to me either way. In conclusion this is a site to discuss music. There are straight people and LGBT people here and most of us believe in treating each other with respect. As far as I am concerned the fact that there may be sexual preference differences has no bearing on how PA regulars are going to treat others here. To be honest, it is kind of amazing to me how accepting this site is. I apologize for the long-windedness. I hope I did not offend anyone. Any offenses were purely unintentional and most likely due to my own feeling of uncomfortableness in discussing the subject matter at hand. ------------- 
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:56
Speaking for myself, it would be nice to see a LGBT thread from someone with credibility as the OP. But perhaps wait till the fall semester is over. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:56
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The fact that less than 2% of the population isn't the dominant topic of discussion on this site clearly reveals the disgusting bigotry of progressive rock fans |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 17:58
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^ Sarcasm! And I suspect that percentage is a wee bit low. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 18:13
Hard to find data because studies don't all match up but: -less than 2% of polled Australians identify as homosexual -1% of Canadian college students identify as homosexual (an area that frankly most would expect to be higher than national average) -3.6% of polled French people identify as homosexual -2.7% of Irish people identify as homosexual -4.5% of Israeli people identify as either homosexual or bisexual (survey didn't distinguish) -2.4% of Italians identify as either homosexual or bisexual -about 2.5% of Dutch people identify as homosexual -0.9% of New Zealand students -somewhere between 1% and 6% of Britons, depending on the survey you look at. UK Office of National Statistics says 1.5%. more studies: Bell-Weinberg, 1970 - 2% Billy-Battelle, 1993 - 1.1% Cameron-Ross, 1975 - 3% Catania-NABS, 1992 - 2% FRI, 1983 - 5.4% MacDonald, 1988 - 2% NCHS, 1988 - 3.5% Schmidt, 1987 - 0.6% Trocki, 1988 - 3% etc 2% seems like a safe enough average. I'll grant you that somewhere like San Francisco, which is clearly not representative of the rest of the world, was found to be somewhere around 15% homosexuals. Anyway it's a prog website, not a LGBT website. |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 18:23
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^ and this matters.... why...? ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 18:28
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^Yes, and the way some people identify has nothing to do with their sexuality but with their mannerisms and sense of persona, much in the same way that gender may be psychologically distinct from the actual sexual organs one has. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 18:40
Of course we can expect that everybody answers truthfully when asked about his or her sexual preference.  . Sorry, but I sincerely doubt that. Ever heard of socially desirable responding?
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 19:07
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In dozens of anonymous studies? no Why does it matter to you what percentage of people are homosexuals anyway? Surely it doesn't affect your own sexuality in the slightest.
Because he asked. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 19:17
It has nothing to do with SF-- 2% is a low-ball percentage of those interested in same or both sexes. Nothing to be alarmed by. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 19:18
| RayRo, welcome to the site. This site has it all, including warts. Probably we have folks on here who do not like gays. I would bet good money if someone stated they did not like gays on this thread they would be taken to task, even before you started the thread. PA is not some big family singing "We are the world" and PA is not the Westboro Baptist Church. Before we are a group we are individuals, so as one individual to another, welcome to PA, the best prog rock site on planet earth. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 19:26
You would be surprised. It actually matters a lot if such a study is done with face-to-face questioning or online questioning; in the latter case the percentages tend to be higher. It doesn't matter to me at all. But I know that in Cologne, where I live, about 10% of the population is homosexual. Granted that Cologne is a city that attracts homosexuals because it is much more tolerated here. But if 2% of the German population is homosexual that is about 1.6 million people. And 100,000 of them live in Cologne? And Berlin has a similar percentage, which means about 350,000 are homosexual there.. So if there really are only 1.6 million homosexual in Germany it would mean about 28% of them live in Berlin or Cologne. I sincerely doubt that. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 22:19
I mean, what we have is many many formal studies VS 1 person (ok, 2 people) saying that they definitely know better than everybody else who actually researched it And actually it doesn't sound that outrageous to have a third of the adult homosexual population moving to the most gay-friendly cities in the country. Why would they stay somewhere less tolerant? |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 23:25
You contradict yourself a bit, my friend. You say it does not surprise you that homosexuals would move to areas where homosexuality is more tolerated. This does of course mean that there are areas where it is not that tolerated. This is exactly were socially desirable responding enters. People who live in areas where it is less tolerated are much less prone to answer truthfully to such a question. So there is always a number of unreported cases, a dunkelziffer. How big this dunkelziffer is can only be estimated. It is the same when you ask women about being beaten up by their husbands, only in that case it is more obvious why they would not answer truthfully. Many homosexuals have still not come out of the closet yet because they fear disadvantages of some kind. You may argue they need not fear in an anonymous study. But if you constantly live with that fear it becomes an automatism to deny it when you are asked about it. This is why I don't take any of these studies to hit the mark. Interestingly female homosexuality seems to be somewhat more socially respected than male homosexuality these days. This has not always been the case. Back in the time when the church had much more influence male homosexuality was a very bad thing, but female homosexuality was absolutely unthinkable. A woman enjoying her sexuality without participation of a man was absolutely not de rigueur. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 04 2015 at 23:59
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Oh dear. This thread went south in a fu*king hurry. The thing about equality is ... everyone gets treated the same. That's kinda the point, the whole point and nothing but the point. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 00:00
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^ Nice try, Dean, but our RayRo won't have any of that. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 00:04
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It's clear to me now that we should all prepare our anoos(es) for a very long haul. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 01:19
Aside from the usual comedians (myself included) making jokes, the only eye-brow raising post I saw was from *someone* who gave the impression he only supported LGBT rights for political and anti-religious reasons but that was simply a case of "lost in translation". Until people support equality for all regardless of their own political or religious ideology then there never will be equality. LGBT rights should never have been a political issue nor should it ever be a religious issue, it is an apolitical, areligious issue.
There is now, and the comedians will rip the piss out of it for a while because that's what we do. Not because we don't take the subject seriously, but because we cannot resist the humour in it.
Because that is not what defines who he is perhaps?
Erm, do you mean Queen-by-tor? She's female, that is the be all and end all of it. That is not anonymity, quite the opposite. All people here are accepted as the gender they declare themselves to be.
"Welcome Ray, why are you gay?" seems an awfully rude welcome to me.  We discuss these things when they come up, if they come up, but frankly - when practically everyone here supports equality for all then what is there to discuss?Try this: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93331" rel="nofollow - Yeah, I just got out of jail . We showed our support but what is there to discuss there? If Erin wanted to discuss LGBTQ rights there she could have, but she chose not to.
Positive discrimination (which is in essence what you are asking for) is only necessary to redress an imbalance caused by negative discrimination - the proper solution is to remove the negative, which is what we do here. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 04:24
Hey SteveG, is that your latest ploy to get around your suspension on this site?? To come back in through the back door (pun intended  ) and camp as a gay dude??  That's lacking much class  .... even wondering if this is not disrespectful to the LGBT community  Even Svetonio wouldn't stoop that low!!! (hopefully) |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 05:39
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Steve are suspended from the site? ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 06:07
Lets not take something so positive and change it into identity politics.  Music is what got us all together on here :) wit and humour is a bonus. I enjoy it here, also talking to people with funny names and superhero avatar's.  |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 06:33
I agree that ALL THE TIME, it become boring, but LGBT as a political identity is important, even to adquire the basic rights. ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 06:34
I find this whole thing rather pathetic and annoying. This is a site about progressive rock and I don't care for the sexual orientation of any of its forum members. If no one feels the need to discuss this, then let it be so ... and keep it that way. If you don't feel welcome because of this then there is a strange twist in your way of thinking, unless this is a way of pushing. Moreover, some cultural norms and practises are not bad even though they can be dated to a century which ended a short 15 years ago. Let me finish this off with an example of prog 'cause that's what this site is about: ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:04
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:04
Yes it is a serious matter, these are basic human rights, equal rights for all, it's so frustrating and incomprehensible the injustice done to particular social groups. People should stop imposing onto others their beliefs and instead mind their own business, we know this. What I said earlier was not meant in an insensitive way, quite the contrary. I don't want anyone to end up feeling alienated or others uncomfortable, made to feel like they need to walk on eggshells around here, thus our gender identity should not matter here. Sexual orientation, on-the-other-hand now that's an interesting topic to me
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:13
you are welcome to visit us any time, Kati ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:20
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I identify as unfathomably uncomfortable with myself. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:21
Thank you very much, BaldJean
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:27
uncomfortable exploring yourself
you're funny. |
Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:45
have a nice day!
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 07:54
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??? ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 08:08
I know what 'he' wrote, but I did not need to quote 'him' directly as that would only have provoked another of 'his' self-pitying protestations. 'He' listed three reasons, of which I picked two to comment upon as the third was superfluous; 'he' did not list one reason that had three conditions that had to be true for 'him' to support LBGT demands... Then, perhaps you should actually read read what I wrote and not what you think I said. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 11:21
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 11:44
| Priest needs to learn how to spell. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 11:45
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------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 11:59
Serbian priest supports the fascist organizations and football hooligans at anti-gay protest in Belgrade: |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 12:00
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can he spell? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:21
In their defense, the orthodox church has a clear position on homosexuality. Nobody is forcing you to agree with them, but their priests probably should actually follow their own religion
automobiles
Bavaria is very nice, full of kindly people, and has less mexicans than Texas
I don't believe you k |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:28
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Thankfully the world have changed a bit the last 40 years or so. Back in the golden age of the 1970's, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_Lounge_arson_attack" rel="nofollow - things were not as simple. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:29
This verges on ugly-- further, I'd think someone in Canada couldn't give a rat's ass what's happening in Texas. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:33
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Please BaldFriede don't insult your own country by daring to compare Bavaria (or any place on Earth really) to Texas -------------
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:51
I never said it's a bad thing. Just that Bavaria doesn't tend to have a lot of immigrants from Mexico. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:52
There is a common saying in Germany: "Bavaria is no longer Germany and not yet Austria". Many things are different in Bavaria. It is for example the only one of the 16 federal states of Germany in which there is no Christian Democratic Union (one of the major political parties in Germany) but where you have the Christian Social Union instead. The CSU is a sister party of the CDU, but there are often tensions between them. These tensions have a big impact on the political life in Germany. In the days of Franz Josef Strauss the CSU got around 70% of the votes in Bavaria, a lot more than any other party in any other federal state. They still get by far the most votes in Bavaria. And the CSU is the most conservative of all democratic parties in Germany; it borders on right-wing extremism at times. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 13:55
Yes of course you didn't mean it's a bad thing (* sound of pedals running backward *) ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 14:12
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It is in fact only due to the CSU that there still is no full-fledged homosexual marriage in Germany; all we have is a "Eingetragene Lebensgemeinschaft" ("registered life partnership"), which lacks several rights of "normal" marriages. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 14:13
1. I have been there twice and oh my is it a beautiful place, quite unlike the horrid nothingness of TX 2. It has given us plenty of great culture, quite unlike TX 3. Even its extremists are probably less stupid than the ones in TX -------------
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 14:17
Technically it's more like "Germany is no longer Bavaria," since Bavaria hasn't really changed in decades |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 14:24
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I don't deny it is a beautiful place, and there is indeed a lot of culture there. Munich is the third biggest city in Germany, after Berlin and Hamburg and before Cologne (those four cities are the only German cities with a population of over a million). And then there is of course the Bayreuth festival each year. We live in Cologne, by the way. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 14:26
The saying is not meant in a temporal way but in a geographical way ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 05 2015 at 14:29
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I've been in three of the four. And oh how I long to go to Bayreuth one day to the Festspiele. So, going back to the subject, that's why I would never compare anything to TX. A place where idiocy takes new forms every day. And on top of that, a very bland looking place. -------------
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