Rush Retirement Rumors: Your Thoughts.
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Topic: Rush Retirement Rumors: Your Thoughts.
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Rush Retirement Rumors: Your Thoughts.
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:24
When I saw Jethro Tull circa 1986 after Ian Anderson lost his voice, it was heartbreaking. I never saw another Tull show again. There has been a lot of buzz about Rush calling it a day after their 40 year (sic) anniversary tour. If Rush want to pack it in while they're still in top form, that's fine with me as that's how I would like to remember them. Not as something sub par. What are your thoughts on Rush possibly calling it a day?
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Replies:
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:28
Their legacy is huge and there is a lot to hold up to.
I would be very dissapointed for never have the chance of seeing them live - they come to my town only once and I was very young - but... cest la vie.
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:35
SteveG wrote:
When I saw Jethro Tull circa 1986 after Ian Anderson lost his voice, it was heartbreaking. I never saw another Tull show again. There has been a lot of buzz about Rush calling it a day after their 40 year (sic) anniversary tour. If Rush want to pack it while they're still in top form, that's fine with me as that's how I would like to remember them. Not as something sub par. What are your thoughts on Rush possibly calling it a day? |
I saw Tull at The Garden Party supporting Marillion, shortly after Anderson's recovery from throat surgery. They were great. I saw them again in Cardiff in 1999, and I thought then that they were struggling. Having seen snippets of Anderson live on the intertit, in the last tour, he is clearly well and truly over the hill.
Similarly, I regard the Yes circus as one which really should have called it a day some time ago.
I would hate it if Gabriel decided to do The Lamb live with Genesis as a pension top up. A sixty odd year old man playing a young Puerto Rican punk? No, thanks awfully.
I saw Rush on the Moving Pictures tour, the only time I saw them, and they were imperious. I think the decision to stop touring, if true, is brave and absolutely correct. Every thing, and every person, has a time, and when that time is over, it is time to stop.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:40
^My wife says we saw Tull in '89, Steve, but I won't budge on this one. I don't want her to think that she's always right.
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:42
Oh, yeah, I saw Ian Anderson in 2013, for the TAAB2 tour. I do feel the diference of Ian's voice and miss Martin Barre on stage. But it was a lot of fun, no doubt.
No one ask, but here is a photograph:
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:44
No need to ask for such a great picture, Gustavo. Thanks.
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:46
But hey, what about Rush!?
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:49
Knowing them, I seriously doubt any retirement would be permanent. Packing it in while still in top form is a fine idea, but sometimes, as Neil Young said, "It's better to burn out than to fade away".
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:49
How's this?
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:51
Well as you all know I am a big Rush fan. For sure the day they actually call it quits will be a tough one, I don't think that is the case right now though. For sure they are nowhere close to the status of a Yes, Tull or some other geezer groups trying to stretch out another 10yrs. The musicianship of Rush is impressive to this day, there is not an ounce of lacking on their live shows, as I stated on my R40 review. Geddy and Alex have stated several times they have no desire to be on stage trying to still do in 10 yrs what they are doing now....Thank God! The Rolling Stones and others are light years past their prime...sheesh!!
I think what Rush will do is cut down the touring by 70% as a minimum, they probably will still record new albums and those tours will be short and maybe not as grand, for sure they will not go across the pond anymore or hit South America, I suspect it will only be Canada/US and 5-8 major cities for 3 months on the road and done.
I don't foresee any live shows for at least 2-3 yrs....but actually retiring from recording as Rush I don't see that for maybe another 5yrs out. I think they have 2-3 albums left and probably some project stuff before calling it quits.
They have managed their careers probably better than any rock artist of the last 40-50yrs, the Rush machine is well run, they and Ray Daniels are very smart and I seriously doubt any of that will change for trying to eek out another 5yrs past their prime. For sure they don't need the money.......It's all about the music, although Alex says it's about the chicks .
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:53
Agree with Catcher.
And great pic, Steve
But both comments just let me down and remeber that I may never see them live.
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:54
They could still do albums and not have the heavy toil of touring to contend with, but of course this is just more speculation.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 17:58
GKR wrote:
Agree with Catcher.
And great pic, Steve
But both comments just let me down and remeber that I may never see them live.
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Thank God we live in the age of the DVD! Don't worry, be happy.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 18:00
Remember all the talk stems from both Neil and Alex and how the touring affects them physically, they just need longer breaks between the marathon touring and 3 hour shows.
At some point Neil will not be able to play for 3 hours and Alex will succumb to arthritis in his hands....Geddy seems to be the robot of the three.....The Duracell bunny!
But again, I seriously doubt Neil will just sit and let his body go to waste, he is an athlete and will keep training and working out....It's not easy riding a motor bike, need to be in shape for what he does.
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 18:18
SteveG wrote:
GKR wrote:
Agree with Catcher.
And great pic, Steve
But both comments just let me down and remeber that I may never see them live.
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Thank God we live in the age of the DVD! Don't worry, be happy. |
Yeah, we wont loose anything, thats for sure.
aaand the age of torrent.
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 18:51
It's time. It's been time for a while.
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Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 19:03
GGGGAAAAAHHHHHHH I WANTED TO SEE THEM LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hopefully there's some more projects in the near future for them, and besides, they f**king deserve this "retirement"!!!!!!!!
------------- Progrockdude
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Posted By: Gully Foyle
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 19:21
rush are not in top form - ged's voice is no what it was
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 19:30
Gully Foyle wrote:
rush are not in top form - ged's voice is no what it was |
Uh, the elephant in the room.
When Geddy Lee sing 2112 I agree with you. More recent songs, however are really ok.
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 19:38
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore.....Also there is NO rock group at their age that can hold a candle to their live shows, Iron Maiden come very very close. Both are one of the only ones that can pack 12,000+ fans a night.
Yea a show with 800-2000 is pretty nice but the power of 1,000's of fans is pretty amazing.
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 19:51
No one is judging him, man.
But sometimes this is a concern even from the artist himself to retire.
I myself just said that the TAAB show of Ian Anderson suffered from his bad voice. But I agree with you, 1200 people claping their hands as goes the "I come down from the upper class" were remarcably.
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 22:30
Catcher10 wrote:
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore.....Also there is NO rock group at their age that can hold a candle to their live shows, Iron Maiden come very very close. Both are one of the only ones that can pack 12,000+ fans a night.
Yea a show with 800-2000 is pretty nice but the power of 1,000's of fans is pretty amazing. |
I'm not sure, how does Jon Anderson sing now, I think it should be fair enough. By the Symphonic Live tour he was as good as ever... at least for my ears. For the final tour DVD's with the classic line-up, I could hear a difference already, but it was still very enjoyable. Now, still other 10 years later, I'm not sure. There were some videos on Youtube actually with Transatlantic and at some event with an orchestra playing Awaken... I think he was singing very nicely. And I think Annie Haslam is still singing nicely, but I haven't heard much from her anyway... I gave a few listens to their last album, and she certainly can sing all right... but I'm not sure, perhaps she lost the edge, the purity in her voice, at least a bit; still, I believe she must be among the most profesional singers around, really taking care of her vocal chords and keeping in shape.
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Posted By: Ancient_Mariner
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 22:44
From listening to Geddy's high voice on videos I was really worried before going to see my first Rush show this year in STL. Then I saw them and while Geddy doesn't sound like he did 20 years ago they were amazing. The music was phenomenal and just a wonderful show. I'm sure they will slow down a lot, but I'd be surprised if CWA was the last album and this was the last set of shows. I'd love to have one more shot to see them. STL has always been prime Rush country and hopefully they make it here one more time.
I also compare them to Iron Maiden. A tight professional live band that isn't screwing around, just putting on an excellent show. I'd give Maiden the nod but I'm a bigger fan of them so I'm biased.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 10:51
Catcher10 wrote:
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore.....Also there is NO rock group at their age that can hold a candle to their live shows |
I agree with the latter, but for a rock singer who's well past 60, Glenn Hughes is something of a freak of nature.
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay
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Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 11:49
Rush never quits.
------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 11:59
I was thinking of Jon A......but he really has not strained his chords like others may have, all his singing has been pretty low key no harsh passages, pretty mellow are Yes vocals. Unlike Geddy and for sure Bruce Dickinson who have strained their chords some.
Steve Hogarth (H), not yet 60 but his voice is holding up pretty well.
We are getting off topic, better for another thread
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:00
The day that Rush retires will be a very sad day for me. Their concert this summer was still high quality and very enjoyable in my opinion.
Geddy's singing was truly never one of their better features, and quite frankly is probably one of their bigger detriments. I guess that it really is an acquired taste.
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Posted By: Ancient_Mariner
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:15
I know people who hate Rush just due to Geddy's vocals. Most of them horrific taste in music though. ;)
Personally I love them. But I love wailing metal singers like Halford, Dickinson, and Tate. Geddy has a unique character to be sure.
I was watching Rush in Rio and even then you can tell time has taken its toll, but not as much as the 2013 CWA video. They could drop vocals all together and I'll still dig them. Actually that would be sweet, an instrumental album... I can dream.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:19
Ancient_Mariner wrote:
I know people who hate Rush just due to Geddy's vocals. Most of them horrific taste in music though. ;)
Personally I love them. But I love wailing metal singers like Halford, Dickinson, and Tate. Geddy has a unique character to be sure.
I was watching Rush in Rio and even then you can tell time has taken its toll, but not as much as the 2013 CWA video. They could drop vocals all together and I'll still dig them. Actually that would be sweet, an instrumental album... I can dream.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:23
Something that I forgot to mention when I posted this thread. In an interview on VH1's The Metal Show, Geddy said that any retirement plans would be based more on the group's concern for 'quality of life' and he specifically noted that Neil had a young son that he wanted to spend time with. That makes sense to me. A 60 something person with a young son? Damn, time is indeed precious.
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Posted By: Ancient_Mariner
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:35
Yeah, after watching the Rush documentary and hearing about his daughter dying and then getting remarried I was wondering if he had any other kids. So he's 62 and according to wiki he had a kid in 2009. I think that family time is way more important to him since he's set financially I'd guess. Would be nice to maybe get another album and a short 8-10 date tour or two.
Apparently Geddy still wants to play a lot more than the other two. I wonder what he's thinking of doing outside Rush?
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:42
verslibre wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore.....Also there is NO rock group at their age that can hold a candle to their live shows |
I agree with the latter, but for a rock singer who's well past 60, Glenn Hughes is something of a freak of nature. |
Roy Harper's voice is honestly as good as it's ever been on his most recent album, and for some reason folk singers in general seem to improve with age a bit rather than folding like rock acts do. Rush aren't my favourite band but full credit to the quality of what they're doing at the age they're doing it at.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:49
SteveG wrote:
Something that I forgot to mention when I posted this thread. In an interview on VH1's The Metal Show, Geddy said that any retirement plans would be based more on the group's concern for 'quality of life' and he specifically noted that Neil had a young son that he wanted to spend time with. That makes sense to me. A 60 something person with a young son? Damn, time is indeed precious. | He actually has a young daughter, Olivia. In the interview I saw, they were saying that both Neil and Alex are suffering from some aches and pains of getting older. I think that with Alex, it was arthritis in his hands. I can't remember what it was with Neil but that it was sometimes painful for him to play as well. Neil's other consideration was not wanting to leave his wife and daughter for long periods of time, but apparently she was excited for her dad when he broke the news to her that they were going on tour. (she may not have realized what it meant, but at least that was what she told Neil according to the interview).
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:50
^I think that Roy Harper is a vampire. An extremely talented vampire, though.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:52
rushfan4 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Something that I forgot to mention when I posted this thread. In an interview on VH1's The Metal Show, Geddy said that any retirement plans would be based more on the group's concern for 'quality of life' and he specifically noted that Neil had a young son that he wanted to spend time with. That makes sense to me. A 60 something person with a young son? Damn, time is indeed precious. | He actually has a young daughter, Olivia. In the interview I saw, they were saying that both Neil and Alex are suffering from some aches and pains of getting older. I think that with Alex, it was arthritis in his hands. I can't remember what it was with Neil but that it was sometimes painful for him to play as well. Neil's other consideration was not wanting to leave his wife and daughter for long periods of time, but apparently she was excited for her dad when he broke the news to her that they were going on tour. (she may not have realized what it meant, but at least that was what she told Neil according to the interview).
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My bad. Geddy might have just said 'young child'. It's kind of hard for me to tune in too closely on TMS.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 13:04
Rush drummer Neil Peart's chronic tendonitis a factor in retirement plans
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 13:11
^Ok, but where did you receive that from?
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Posted By: Ancient_Mariner
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 13:12
I knew about his tendinitis and figured it would be a killer for a powerful drummer like him. But apparently Alex's arthritis can be a real problem for him.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 13:20
Wow, it's starting to sound like these 60+ year old guys are getting old!
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 13:32
SteveG wrote:
^Ok, but where did you receive that from? | From here. http://www.examiner.com/article/rush-drummer-neil-peart-s-chronic-tendonitis-a-factor-retirement-plans" rel="nofollow - http://www.examiner.com/article/rush-drummer-neil-peart-s-chronic-tendonitis-a-factor-retirement-plans
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 13:39
^Thanks for the link. Now I won't be out of the loop.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 14:38
The aches and pains are nothing new......I have the Rush in Rio DVD package and the bonus DVD talks about how Alex suffers from issues with his fingers and actually I think it talked about psoriasis specifically.
And yes the rigors of what Neil puts his body thru to play like he does for 3 hours every other day for 6 months to a year is brutal. Just like Phil Collins can't even hold the drum stick and has back issues, I suspect Neil is feeling some of the same. I would guess Neil does a better job of keeping his body in shape than Phil did, but they still need to slow down or the train will come to a halt real quick.
Neil has been very public about his daughter Olivia and how he does not want to be absent from her childhood. Geddy and Alex have grandkids they want to spend time with....
I really do not think any of them want to quit playing live....they just don't want to go out on the road for 6 months to a year. I think 2-3 months on the road then home for 10 months is their plan.
As others stated, the day they decide to never record or play live will be thee saddest day in rock.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 21:26
Catcher10 wrote:
I was thinking of Jon A......but he really has not strained his chords like others may have, all his singing has been pretty low key no harsh passages, pretty mellow are Yes vocals.<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Unlike Geddy and for sure Bruce Dickinson who have strained their chords some.</span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;">Steve Hogarth (H), not yet 60 but his voice is holding up pretty well.</span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;">We are getting off topic, better for another thread </span> |
Perhaps there's not much of harsh passages on Yes music, but I understand there are some high notes that shouldn't be easy to hold. Benoit had a good voice himself, and yet couldn't convincingly sing some of the high parts when I saw them live... Davison doesn't seem to try altogether, making the music much flatter when he sings it.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 11:44
For reasons that are quite complex, I've never been overtly concerned with musicians personal lives or even their personalities. It's only the music that's important to me. Rush would be the only exception because their appreciation of their fans is undeniable. They spent 40+ years making sure that their fans were happy. As an appreciative fan, I hope whatever decision they make is one that will make them happy.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 13:54
SteveG wrote:
When I saw Jethro Tull circa 1986 after Ian Anderson lost his voice, it was heartbreaking. I never saw another Tull show again. There has been a lot of buzz about Rush calling it a day after their 40 year (sic) anniversary tour. If Rush want to pack it in while they're still in top form, that's fine with me as that's how I would like to remember them. Not as something sub par. What are your thoughts on Rush possibly calling it a day?
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I agree.
Quitting while you're still in good form is the best way to go.
Preferable to doing what the Stones have done and become a kind of sad bumbling parody of an aging rock band.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 21:05
Catcher10 wrote:
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore..... |
Tommy Shaw, the man sounds as good as he did 40 years ago.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 21:10
Ann Wilson could still knock em dead last time I saw her sing.
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 22:43
zachfive wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore..... |
Tommy Shaw, the man sounds as good as he did 40 years ago.
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Richard Thompson?
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 23:01
Finnforest wrote:
Ann Wilson could still knock em dead last time I saw her sing.
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I agree she is a machine...Gonna see her in September with Heart.
I'm glad my comment is bringing the replies I was hoping for.....I also think at 67 Klaus Meine is still hanging tough..dude has chops.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 08:55
Ann Wilson is amazing! I can't believe I forgot about her as I own everything by Heart, minus the odd live album I still don't have. And yes, Tommy Shaw sounds great for a guy who's been in the biz as long as he...and Glenn Hughes goes all the way back to Trapeze, and earlier, to the '60s, with Finders Keepers, and he sounds fantastic! Saga's Michael Sadler is another candidate, and he also has a 40-year-long career, and counting. Ronnie James Dio (RIP) had a career longer than those guys (and girl), even...
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Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 10:23
I'm no Rush fan.....far from it, but I love digging up the early stuff once in a while - especially side 1 of Caress and side 2 of FBN...and Hemispheres was a hoot.....can't forget MP and 2112.....and Exit and ATWAS.....I even saw them twice in two days in Worster, Mass. in '84.....blistering shows. But I'm not a fan....far from it.
------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 13:31
Barbu wrote:
zachfive wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
There is NO rock singer at age 60+ that has a good voice anymore..... |
Tommy Shaw, the man sounds as good as he did 40 years ago.
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Richard Thompson? |
Thompson sounds better. So does Geddy, btw (Less supersonic shrieking, I guess.)
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Posted By: Jake_Simons
Date Posted: February 17 2016 at 13:21
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: February 17 2016 at 16:43
Having seen them 8 times in 35 years, the last being on the time machine tour, Rush are one group who I feel if they decided to stop touring and even recording, I would happily accept it. They have put a vast amount of effort into keeping their fans (more than) happy and have always put their supporters at the top of their agenda and what ever they want for themselves now is fine by me. They will always leave behind a 'top notch, full stop' legacy of musical and personal integrity.
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Posted By: kjtheguitarist
Date Posted: February 18 2016 at 21:20
If they don't want to retire. I'm gonna be happy with it. But if they want to retire. I understand. Because they did great job. And the legacy will live on. That's it.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: February 19 2016 at 08:00
For a variety of reasons I've never been fortunate enough to see Rush so I'd be gutted if they do knock it on the head now. There's always been some reason and it's just not happened for me. Back in the day they never played my town, choosing aircraft hangar venues in the middle of nowhere, hence I didn't make it. Recently there's always been some reason I couldn't catch them when they were in town (on holiday, already sold out, clashed with other gigs, you know the drill).
If it does come to pass at least I have a couple of their concert DVDs to return to. The Snakes and Arrows Live DVD is really outstanding.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 03:06
Ancient_Mariner wrote:
I know people who hate Rush just due to Geddy's vocals. Most of them horrific taste in music though. ;)
Personally I love them. But I love wailing metal singers like Halford, Dickinson, and Tate. Geddy has a unique character to be sure.
I was watching Rush in Rio and even then you can tell time has taken its toll, but not as much as the 2013 CWA video. They could drop vocals all together and I'll still dig them. Actually that would be sweet, an instrumental album... I can dream.
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This is a very good idea. The idea of vocals (always) for rock is a very outdated idea. As most popular music has become a non-commercial proposition then being, uh, progressive (doing things different) would be interesting. The only downside is not hearing the lyrics -n the case of Rush. In other cases... brilliant.
Anyway it's Neil Peart whose hung up his sticks - arthritis.
While I'm (really) glad to have seen Rush twice the DVDs are a much better idea.
If he improves they may do selected and smaller tours. Webcasts, DVDs and even, radio might even reach an audience. Better to do what they can if they can and do it well than not at all. But if there is a compromise and he makes his arthritis worse then it's time to move on.
He could be a, er, proper writer.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 04:38
GKR wrote:
Their legacy is huge and there is a lot to hold up to.
I would be very dissapointed for never have the chance of seeing them live - they come to my town only once and I was very young - but... cest la vie.
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I don't care at all because I never liked them (which is no secret here). In my opinion they are epigones.
Sorry for being negative, but you asked for my thoughts.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 04:55
BaldFriede wrote:
I don't care at all because I never liked them (which is no secret here). In my opinion they are epigones.
Sorry for being negative, but you asked for my thoughts.
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how are they epigones?
you don't like them, ok, fine, but "epigones"?
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 05:54
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 06:08
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 06:25
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
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But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 09:19
Epigones? Makes no sense, does not apply...Unless you want to apply that to many, many bands then ok. Clearly you don't know how they almost were shut down early in their career by the record label, wanting that "hit" record along the lines of traditional hard rock, being told by execs "no more long songs!"2112 is that album that went against this grain you speak of and they did what they thought was best...make their own music. After CoS the label wanted the hit record as they did not understand the progressive rock/metal stuff they were doing...So what does the band do?? They go with the grain and create an album with a side long epic with a dystopian storyline set in the year 2112....Yea that was not "going against the grain" Are you kidding me!! Also you have to remember this was in the mid 70's....Rush were not that huge as you say with followers, they were still an opening act for bands like ELO, BOC, Aerosmith, Kansas, Nazareth and Kiss.
It's best you just say "I don't like them" and be on your way, that will garner you more positive comments.
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 09:35
Passion and integrity, that's what this band is all about.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 09:52
Catcher10 wrote:
Epigones? Makes no sense, does not apply...Unless you want to apply that to many, many bands then ok. Clearly you don't know how they almost were shut down early in their career by the record label, wanting that "hit" record along the lines of traditional hard rock, being told by execs "no more long songs!"2112 is that album that went against this grain you speak of and they did what they thought was best...make their own music. After CoS the label wanted the hit record as they did not understand the progressive rock/metal stuff they were doing...So what does the band do?? They go with the grain and create an album with a side long epic with a dystopian storyline set in the year 2112....Yea that was not "going against the grain" Are you kidding me!! Also you have to remember this was in the mid 70's....Rush were not that huge as you say with followers, they were still an opening act for bands like ELO, BOC, Aerosmith, Kansas, Nazareth and Kiss.
It's best you just say "I don't like them" and be on your way, that will garner you more positive comments. |
I don't care about positive comments. And yes, there are many more bands that I call "epigones".
And you obviously don't get what I mean by "going against the grain". The music of Rush is in my opinion easy to listen to and not challenging at all. And that's why it does not go against the grain.
As to your advice: I think it is best you say "I like them" and be on your way.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 10:06
BaldFriede wrote:
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
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But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
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Well I guess no one likes every band and that's fine, but I don't get how you think they did add anything new or surprising. I'd be the first to admit they started out sounding like a Zep tribute act, but by the time they made 2112 I can honestly say that no one else I'm aware of sounded like that. Even if you hate the sound..
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 11:45
BaldFriede wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Epigones? Makes no sense, does not apply...Unless you want to apply that to many, many bands then ok. Clearly you don't know how they almost were shut down early in their career by the record label, wanting that "hit" record along the lines of traditional hard rock, being told by execs "no more long songs!"2112 is that album that went against this grain you speak of and they did what they thought was best...make their own music. After CoS the label wanted the hit record as they did not understand the progressive rock/metal stuff they were doing...So what does the band do?? They go with the grain and create an album with a side long epic with a dystopian storyline set in the year 2112....Yea that was not "going against the grain" Are you kidding me!! Also you have to remember this was in the mid 70's....Rush were not that huge as you say with followers, they were still an opening act for bands like ELO, BOC, Aerosmith, Kansas, Nazareth and Kiss.
It's best you just say "I don't like them" and be on your way, that will garner you more positive comments. |
I don't care about positive comments. And yes, there are many more bands that I call "epigones".
And you obviously don't get what I mean by "going against the grain". The music of Rush is in my opinion easy to listen to and not challenging at all. And that's why it does not go against the grain.
As to your advice: I think it is best you say "I like them" and be on your way.
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I don't like them.....I love Rush! The music and who they are is much more than just liking a band or music....It's totally ok that you do not get them or like them. For example people adore and love Magma on this website, I don't get it nor like the music much....but I would never expand my feelings to call them garbage or some other word like that or call them imitators.
And really who is a band like Rush imitating to call them epigones?
Whatever..my positive comment is have a good day/evening.
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 11:52
^ Now let's talk about The Fab Four and Frank Zappa, Catch.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 12:30
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 07:32
Blacksword wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
|
But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
|
Well I guess no one likes every band and that's fine, but I don't get how you think they did add anything new or surprising. I'd be the first to admit they started out sounding like a Zep tribute act, but by the time they made 2112 I can honestly say that no one else I'm aware of sounded like that. Even if you hate the sound..
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This is true. To my knowledge, no one else sounded like Rush back then. By the band's own admission, their music was "weird". They had a large cult following and music critics, by and large, hated them.
If by "streamlined", she means mainstream, Calling Rush that is laughable. Until recently, they have been the epitome of not streamlined, not mainstream.
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Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 10:44
Jeffro wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
|
but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
|
But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
|
Well I guess no one likes every band and that's fine, but I don't get how you think they did add anything new or surprising. I'd be the first to admit they started out sounding like a Zep tribute act, but by the time they made 2112 I can honestly say that no one else I'm aware of sounded like that. Even if you hate the sound..
|
This is true. To my knowledge, no one else sounded like Rush back then. By the band's own admission, their music was "weird". They had a large cult following and music critics, by and large, hated them.
If by "streamlined", she means mainstream, Calling Rush that is laughable. Until recently, they have been the epitome of not streamlined, not mainstream.
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I may be biased as a Canadian, but Rush is mainstream. Sure, the critics gave them a fair share of criticism back in the day but look at the sales. 24 gold albums, 14 platinum, 3 multi-platinum. 80th best-selling artist of all time in the US. Every classic rock radio station in Canada will play Fly By Night, Working Man, Tom Sawyer or The Spirit of Radio on a weekly basis. They've been a commercial success ever since A Farewell To Kings came out.
I'll ultimately have to agree with Friede on this one. As a prog band, Rush were old news. Sure, they stuck it to the execs with stuff like Lamneth and 2112, but North American record executives have got to be some of the most artistically closed-minded individuals on the planet, so that isn't saying much. And I'm sure that once Rush really started to sell in the late 70's, the record companies became a lot less reluctant to let them do their own thing. Commercially speaking, Rush were taking a different approach from their continental contemporaries but as far as "progginess" on a global scale, Rush never really developed anything new. Heavy prog was a thing long before Rush delved into it. I'm sure that if you took T2's It'll All Work Out In Boomland and raised the singer's voice a few octaves, it would be almost unmistakable for an early Rush project.
Now, as for what the thread is about (thoughts on Rush's retirement), I think that even with no more tour plans and very little possibility of new studio recordings, their legacy will still last well into the future. For Canadians, Rush will always be folk heroes. The good ol' boys from Toronto who laid down some high energy rock n' roll and made our morning commutes, road trips, and Saturday nights a heck of a lot more enjoyable. They'll go down in history as a legendary rock band - not a legendary prog band.
------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 11:46
Blacksword wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
|
but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
|
But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
|
Well I guess no one likes every band and that's fine, but I don't get how you think they did add anything new or surprising. I'd be the first to admit they started out sounding like a Zep tribute act, but by the time they made 2112 I can honestly say that no one else I'm aware of sounded like that. Even if you hate the sound..
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Yes, they may be less innovative or complex than Yes or Gentle Giant. However, for me, they bring something new to the prog genre during the late 70's, when it was beginning to die. I personally consider 2112 as the prime example of progressive metal, influencing numerous future bands of the 80-90's, such as Dream Theater.
Concerning the 'bands that go against the grain' and 'less followers is better' arguments (the 'hipster' argument? ), things are more complex. Pink Floyd and Radiohead are both incredible and immensely creative bands and have both a huge number of followers. In the late 90's, techno, rap and britpop were popular, Radiohead 'went against the grain' with their innovative depressive and beautiful rock.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 11:47
Back in the day most bands called themselves a rock, pop or psychedelic band......Rush is a hard rock band that wrote stuff that was not popular a lot of times, was weird and for some did not make much sense, at times probably fit some kind of progressive definition, but not 100% of the time, not sure any band has done that...not even Yes, Genesis or Floyd...
Why would any band want to go down as a legendary prog band? If I was in a band nearing my end, that is the last perception I want people thinking of me...a prog band.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 12:00
Jeffro wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
|
But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
|
Well I guess no one likes every band and that's fine, but I don't get how you think they did add anything new or surprising. I'd be the first to admit they started out sounding like a Zep tribute act, but by the time they made 2112 I can honestly say that no one else I'm aware of sounded like that. Even if you hate the sound..
|
This is true. To my knowledge, no one else sounded like Rush back then. By the band's own admission, their music was "weird". They had a large cult following and music critics, by and large, hated them.
If by "streamlined", she means mainstream, Calling Rush that is laughable. Until recently, they have been the epitome of not streamlined, not mainstream.
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I took 'streamined' to mean she thought they were slick and polished, which they were. It wasn't until Neil loosened his sound after some jazz 'tuition' that they started to lose their metronomic style (and started writing less memorable music IMO) but I would argue that just because they were 'streamlined' they were still unique, progressive and innovative.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 12:12
BaldFriede wrote:
Cristi wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They jumped on the prog rock train when it was almost out of the station. I call that "epigones".
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but epigone has such a negative connotation to it, an inferior creator, an imitator which in my opinion Rush has never been.
|
But that's exactly my opinion of them. Had they added anything new and surprising I would not call them "epigones", but they didn't. At least not to my ears. I know they are very much loved on the American continent, but I simply can't warm up to them. They are way too streamlined for my taste. Their huge number of followers alone is proof for that; bands that go against the grain (which are those bands I prefer) have much less followers.
| and lol again.
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Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 12:45
Without necessarily getting into the actual quality of Rush's music, I have to side with Magnum and Baldfriede here, Rush is definitely a relatively streamlined/mainstream act. Compared to RIO, krautrock, free jazz/improv, musique concrete, or straight up avant-garde or avant-rock artists, Rush is a straightforward rock act, with brief verse-chorus songs, catchy hooks, accessible sound, etc. NONE of these are criticisms, but positing Rush as "out-there" artists defying the standard norms of music in the 70's, an era of incredible innovation and experimentation, is false. They bridged hard rock/metal and space rock/prog, which deserves some recognition (hardly the only artists to do so of course), but they had a set sound that enabled commercial success. Even 2112 or Hemispheres (the songs themselves) mainly resort to conventional songwriting tactics, and these came long after side-length tracks had been done to death. By the standards of prog (not even counting actual experimental music) Rush is incredibly normal.
Disclaimer: The quality of a group has little relation to how "weird" they are. I could say that Rush is the greatest band of all time, and it wouldn't contradict anything from the above paragraph. Being unpopular or experimental does not make a group good by default, nor does popularity and conventionality necessarily mean a group must be mediocre (although I find it's often the case).
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Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 13:05
It seems that this thread has derived to the somehow troll-esque topic: "How progressive / creative / good / mainstream Rush is?", which was not the primary intention of the OP.
We all mostly agree on the fact that Rush is not the most innovative band ever. Furthermore, the "mainstream value" strongly depends on the context and on the audience (as I previously mentioned, in France, broadcasting "Tom Sawyer" on radio is science-fiction).
However, the initial question was: "What are your thoughts on Rush possibly calling it a day?"
Personally, I don't have any definitive opinion. I would like to see them live, and Clockwork Angels has its moments.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 13:20
The question should have been : How much of a snob are you?
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Posted By: crimson_smoog
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 13:26
NOOO. I've never seen Rush live It seems the last time they came to Brazil was in 2010. I was 13 years old. I didn't even know what the hell prog rock is. At least, one of unique shows i'm proud to have seen is Chris Squire with Yes (2013). I've lost the Steven Wilson's show this year, though, his only show in Brazil. It's hard to know about prog rock concerts in this country...
------------- "The fate of all mankind i see. Is in the hands of fools."
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 13:38
I never knew there was such a thing as "straight up avant-garde or avant-rock artists"...what is non-straight up avant-garde?? There is no "standard of prog", that's why they call it progressive, a moving target.
I too hope to see them live again someday, not only is the music and musicianship great the show is a great experience.
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 04:46
Barbu wrote:
The question should have been : How much of a snob are you? |
ha ha! Very true
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 04:49
Modrigue wrote:
However, the initial question was: "What are your thoughts on Rush possibly calling it a day?"
Personally, I don't have any definitive opinion. I would like to see them live, and Clockwork Angels has its moments. |
They may never tour again but I believe that they still have new music in them. That's what I want to hear.
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 04:58
Catcher10 wrote:
I never knew there was such a thing as "straight up avant-garde or avant-rock artists"...what is non-straight up avant-garde??There is no "standard of prog", that's why they call it progressive, a moving target. |
It's just snobby elitist attitudes on all sides. Rush fans get piled on because they are passionate about the band. Many of them feel like Rush's music is superior to pedestrian rock n roll. However, those that say that Rush's music is not sophisticated, or not "whatever label" they want to apply are displaying the same snobby elitist attitudes.
If someone says they don't like Rush, fine. You don't like what you don't like and that's okay, but trying to justify that dislike by putting down the band because they don't fit your own definition of what prog is, is silly.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 05:50
^^ I don't think anyone has said they are not 'progressive' (have they?) Prog rock, like the snobbery that characterises many of its followers, is a spectrum, with It Bites at one end and a top hatted octupus playing the f***ing spoons on an ironing board at the other. Rush sit somewhere to the right of the centre point along that spectrum.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 08:00
Blacksword wrote:
^^ I don't think anyone has said they are not 'progressive' (have they?) Prog rock, like the snobbery that characterises many of its followers, is a spectrum, with It Bites at one end and a top hatted octupus playing the f***ing spoons on an ironing board at the other. Rush sit somewhere to the right of the centre point along that spectrum. |
Some people here have said that they don't consider Rush to be prog. I've only been here a short time compared to some and I've seen comments to that effect. Perhaps it's a minority. I don't know
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Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 09:51
Genre classifications are equal points fickle and pointless, but classifying Rush as prog would depend on one's definition of prog (obviously). Certainly, no one would put them among the symphonic, keyboard driven groups like Genesis or Yes or the eclectic, experimental, jazzy groups like Gentle Giant or King Crimson, but as far as being placed on Progarchives overall, they certainly have a place somewhere in the heavy rock/metal categories. Personally, I tend to use a pretty strict definition of prog that would probably exclude Rush, but that has nothing to do with quality. Van Der Graaf Generator is my favorite group and I don't consider them to be prog either.
As for the original OP, I tend to be skeptical of any group that carries on for decades. After a certain point, it's time to hang it up, form a new group that goes in a completely different direction. Play with new people. Anything but pump out roughly the same music endlessly (whether this applies to Rush, I have no idea).
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