Toaster Mantis wrote: ... People like the late Daevid Allen from Gong would then be largely exempt from those criticisms. Not to mention that the ideology of the crust punk subgenre could be categorized as basically the hippie movement liberated from 1960s nostalgia and the drugs.

Very tough topic and discussion. But we're forgetting that Daevid was also a "beat poet", and as such, he did not distinguish between one thing or another and there is enough work of his that could easily be defined as "punk", even if it were just the pointed lyrics.

All in all, for me, the word is a gross representation of the whole thing, and more of a promotional/commercial usage for the term, than it really was in reality or concept. And then, they become RICH nice boys and girls, and appreciated when they are in their 50's and 60's. I really do not like to label artistic movements, since they are so different, and there are too many distinctions between them, but history uses these terms as a way to describe their livelihood.

A more modern example today would be rap. Distinguishing the rap details kinda takes away its very edge and strength. It's like naked, the whole thing is meaningless, and I do not wish to think that of any music or art. Same with "punk".

TODDLER wrote: Daevid Allen and Dave Brock were both inspired by Syd Barrett. ... Many aspects of Syd Barrett's music/sound influenced the creation of "Punk" years after he created the force in "Space Rock".

I don't think that Daevid and Dave were inspired or influenced by Syd. Daevid lived in the same house as Syd with Kevin, Robert and many others coming and going, and they were just about the same age, and they would have likely yakked many nights and strummed their guitars and showed each other many things. There is very little in Daevid's solo stuff that doesn't sound like Syd, and likewise, when you hear the couple of Syd albums, you will find ... gee ... that sounds like Daevid ... but I think that Syd on the solo side, was intentionally badly recorded, or done in the living room, kind of thing, because he might not have wanted to go to the studio. And on the odd days, having Allen Ginsberg throw some poems at a couple of these guys playing guitars would not be or sound out of the ordinary, and in fact he did just that in "Tonite We All Love in London". I'm not sure that Dave Brock is ever related to this side of things at all.

And Daevid, and many other, learned a huge lesson about "recording the moment", rather than going to the studio, which led to Daevid doing many solo works on his own with basically nothing on hand.

The "space rock" thing, I think is a bit different, and I think that Syd was curious about the different sounds one could get from this funny electric thing ... and he found many, that helped create valuable moments in music, and some of its effects and feelings became associated with space rock ... only because of the titles of the pieces. Not any viable reality ... and we need to wake up to that and stop being silly!

For all intents and purposes, Daevid and Syd were contemporaries and knew each other and saying that one influenced the other is nuts ... specially when they were in the same house eating and sleeping and whatever else was the fashion of the day ... with some drugs.