Why was early Floyd not embraced by America?
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Topic: Why was early Floyd not embraced by America?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Why was early Floyd not embraced by America?
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 09:41
| Most Americans did not even know that Pink Floyd existed prior to the release of Dark Side of the Moon. But in the wake of DSotM, in an effort to play catch up, ignored albums like Atom Heart Mother, Piper..., Meddle and Relics were gobbled up, and soon after, quickly ignored again. Why didn't the American public ever warm up to early Pink Floyd? |
Replies:
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 09:54
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There's an almost archetypical British aura surrounding those records that may have flown over their heads. Especially the debut. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 10:45
This, in spades. There was a world of difference between American psychedelia and English. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Guldbamsen wrote:Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 10:51
| Maybe because their first American tour was a disaster with Syd Barrett starting to unravel. There were people who embraced the band and their music before Dark side. I doubt it had anything to do with them being to English for America. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:14
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:18
Weren't most of the British progressive rock groups perceived that way in the US back then, though? I think Genesis and Jethro Tull are at least as acutely British just for starters. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:22
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:32
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Which is weird because I think JT are like the most distinctly British of that entire bunch, what with the folk elements being to the forefront. They don't have that entire academic art school attitude as characterized the progressive rock movement, though... in terms of "ideology" they're closer to Fairport Convention and their ilk. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:36
| ^This is pretty easy. Because Tull was an early blues rock band, they toured with similar blues based or hard rock groups in the US in the late sixties/early seventies and were able to get a leg up on everyone. They were not seen as quintessentially British until later in their career. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:40
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Yeah, at some point they toured with the MC5. As in, the band that's basically the missing link between hippie and punk cultures. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:47
Yes, but mismatched band pairings were also notorious in that era too. Hendrix and the Monkeys being the most well known! 
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:53
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The band's increasing drawing upon British cultural history in their entire aesthetic was, according to Ian Anderson, also a reaction against the culture shock he felt when touring in the US. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:56
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Yes, something made a lot of these bands ramp up their 'Englishness'. My brother swears it was their love of Monty Python's Flying Circus!
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 12:59
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Slightly off-topic, I also remember reading an interview with either Uli Jon Roth or Michael Schenker - probably the former - saying that the reason he started incorporating more classical influence in his guitar playing was that he wanted to make rock music that was distinctly Continental European. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 13:03
| Yes, I've always felt that there was a 'continental' music vibe either deliberately or subconsciously added to the music of many European bands from Rainbow to Focus. It's in their DNA, for lack of a better explanation. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 14:49
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The oft cited reason why British bands fail to break America is simply that they don't put the necessary amount of work into it. Music promotion was (and still is) mainly by word-of-mouth, you can run all the adverts in the trade papers you like, it is the grass-roots following of the fans that builds and supports a band's career. In the 1960s in the UK, with only one national radio station and two TV stations and no local or regional TV and radio, building up a grass-roots following through touring was relatively simple. You toured your arse off playing every toilet and dive in every town until you got signed and released a record; you then plugged that on the radio, did Top Of The Pops and toured your arse off again but now in slightly more salubrious venues. With 100 times the geographic area of the UK for only 5 times the population and far more TV and radio stations, America is harder to apply that approach to, especially when you are only touring for perhaps one or two months in any given year. Brit bands that make it big in the USA often do so by relocating out there full time. There is little doubt that the disaster of the 1967 American tour where so many dates were cancelled at first due to lack of work-permits and then through Syd's erratic behaviour soured Floyd's view of America and the American promoters view of Floyd, so they did a brief tour in 1968 and didn't play there at all in 1969. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:10
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Just like the 13th Floor Elevators' obscurity outside the Southwestern United States is in large part a result of Roky Erickson's mental health issues forcing the break-up of the band just as they started getting big. I think he left during the recording of their third LP, and at some point they had to get a cover band to do the rest of a tour they couldn't continue. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:15
| ^Yes, both were pretty acid toasted, but the Elevators' You're Gonna Miss Me would have been much more accessible to US audiences than Floyds' Arnold Lane, I would think. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:18
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Different countries have different cultures? That's unpossible! ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:24
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^Americans like offbeat stuff too, but Arnold Lane was just way, way too offbeat. Rock and Roll by Gary Glitter was a big US hit and very off beat. And quite 'English', I should add.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:28
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:29
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Hmm....I started college in the fall of '69 and the first Floyd things I heard was Atom Heart Mother and Ummagumma....the two guys in my dorm who turned me on to those then played Piper and Saucer for me. But I always liked Meddle better than those early ones. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:32
| ^Yes, there was always the 'underground' crowd that listened to early Floyd, like my brother, but they were not of the mainstream public taste. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 15:34
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 19:39
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"freakbeat" is a neologism invented in the 1980s to describe a style of music that didn't (and doesn't) actually exist ... no one called it that back in the sixties, (or the seventies or the nineties or the naughties) nor should they now (in the nowties). At best it is a revisionist descriptive applied retrospectively. Piper is not even remotely "garage psych" nor is it related to "R&B" nor "beat music", it is psychedelic -rock, -pop and -folk with touches of acid rock, space rock, jazz, musique concrète and avant garde. "nitch" is the alternative pronunciation not the alternative spelling.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 20:13
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I remember having this early Floyd conversation with my cousin back around '75 when I was just getting into prog. He was about 10 years older than me and was moving in temporarily and gave me full access to his record collection. We both distinctly saw Floyd's catalog split between DSoTM and after vs pre-DSoTM. I was saying (in the infinite wisdom of a teenager prog snob who clearly knew everything but actually knew nothing) that I was going to stick with DSoTM forward and not bother with that early weird stuff. Thankfully, my opinion changed a few months later when a friend was telling me about this crazy song called "Bike" and that I just had to hear it. I bought Relics and loved it then picked up Piper at the Gates and it was like discovering the psychotic half brother of Sgt Peppers. These days, I usually reach for early rather than '73+ Floyd
 ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 01:18
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 02:20
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 08:41
Btw, how else does one pronounce niche?
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 08:51
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 08:53
The same as pastiche and quiche of course ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 08:57
| ^Ah, I see, said the blind man. Thanks. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 09:04
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:05
| Far out |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:09
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groovy ------------- What? |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:14
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Right on was more about black power than hippies. Far out and groovy were the hippie catchwords IMHO.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:22
| It depended on what part of the US you were in at the time. I hitchhiked from east to west and back in 1968. Basically, all of these catch phrases were hippie-ism that were later 'confiscated' by different groups. The idea that the Panthers invented 'right on' is humorous. |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:32
| Sure the black culture had to borrow from the hippies, except in 1925 right on was in their culture. Were you a hippie back then too Steve |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:33
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Yes, hippies are timeless Tim. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:42
| Right arm |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 10:46
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:07
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:10
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I have and I do. Next topic please. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:19
An exclamation of enthusiasm or encouragement, as in You've said it really wellright on! This interjection has a disputed origin. Some believe it comes from African-American slang (it was recorded in Odum and Johnson's The Negro and His Songs, 1925); others feel it is a shortening of right on target, used by http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/15916#" rel="nofollow">military airmen, or right on cue, theatrical slang for saying the right lines at the right time. [Slang; first half of 1900s] No mention of hippies Steve
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:23
| Ok Tim, if this makes you feel better: you are right. I don't recall what we're arguing about, but I'm sure you do. Sad. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:23
The hippies adopted most, if not all, of their slang from elsewhere. No one can really credit them with creating anything other than litter. ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:25
| ^Yes, indeed! I only said that the hippies used them, not created them. This seems to go over some people's heads so let's put it rest. Litter and all. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:29
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Early Floyd wasn't embraced because Syd Barrett hadn't taken a shower in a month. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 11:30
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^Typical hippie! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: August 01 2015 at 17:14
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I guess it just depends what part of the "American public" you are referring to. Floyd certainly was not Top 40 material in the US until DSOTM, but I distinctly remember being totally freaked out by Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict around the time Tommy and In the Court of the Crimson King hit the record stores. When DSOTM hit the airwaves, most people in the US viewed Floyd as a "new sensation," whereas those already versed in the band viewed DSOTM as "when Floyd totally sold out." Only as I came of age did I realize what kind of people I was exposed to as an impressionable yoot. I had no idea that listening to Ummagumma, let alone liking it, is not considered normal.
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