Should Ratings Be Abolished?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=103105
Printed Date: February 23 2025 at 13:05
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Should Ratings Be Abolished?
Posted By: Atavachron
Subject: Should Ratings Be Abolished?
Date Posted: July 02 2015 at 22:54
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...Or maybe just ratings without reviews. Inspired by micky's (and my own) longstanding misgivings about star ratings, particularly when unaccompanied by a written review, I thought it might be ripe to have a serious chat about it. Allowing stars only if accompanied by written material would bring focus more on to content rather than status, and might compel more people to actually compose a writeup. I know a lot of non-English speakers use the site and can't or prefer not to submit a review, and that's a valid issue. And getting rid of ratings-only could impact the top 100 Prog Albums. Not to mention the fact that, well, people like their stars. Heck, so do I  .------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 02 2015 at 23:03
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Oh I'm definitely on board with this as well. valid concerns - foreign users. Easy man.. let them review it. In their own language, something IIRC has not been allowed. It isn't like their review says anything we could understand now.. it is a stupid rating. Does nothing but add to equation.. let them review the albums in their own language. If one person who understands the languages reads then. voila... their review has done more good than any rating without review could ever do. next... yes.. our favorite thing. The album listing here which is based on ratings... let that whole list come crashing down. We'll sweep up the wreckage of that.. and build something better... the site has a lot of smart people here... the site can build a definative list of top albums to help guide newbies and explorers to the world of prog. If RS can do it... this f**king site can.. and a helluva lot better. Good way to engage the forum, and even some collabs in a good task. the most obvious benefit is a improvement on the quality of the reviews. Take away the yoke of having to justify a rating... if someone wants to review an album. .do so.. talk about it on its own merits and failings. Inform, education.. not playing ratings and album ranking games. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 00:30
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No. ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 00:59
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Well actualy reviewing with no rating would be my first choice, because i prefer the words to a 5 star system. But im sure the "PA" leadership would never accept that. They seem to like the "X"-factor contest. Best prog album, and all that. Put it seems very on prog to me. I definetely would start writing reviews is there was no ratings involved, but i know its never going to happen. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 01:18
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^ I don't know about that; the ownership may want ratings, but the leadership would probably be fine either way. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 03:04
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I don't have anything against star ratings, but I refuse to give them unless accompanied by a review. If I was to decide whether ratings without reviews were to be abolished, I'd say yes. Anyway, the weighting system helps to correct the rating-only effect a bit. ------------- 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 04:15
I also have no problems about ratings, and I'd even say that review-less ratings don't bother me either (though I've very rarely done it myself), if the number of ratings is sufficient enough to make the album rating somewhat trustworthy Actually my only gripe is that 5
 is simply too limitative At one point, we had the 0 happening  and I thought it was a step in the right direction , but this was retrieved after only one year ... it's been almost a decade since mailto:M@X" rel="nofollow - M@X promised us the much-awaited halfstars and we're still waiting... |
someone_else wrote:Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 04:20
Yes, absolutely. Throw them out with the trash  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 04:41
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Bamse what are you dooing here, shouldent you be wastet at the festival by now ? ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 05:51
I sure should, but I couldn't find any sugarmama willing to sponsor the trip  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 06:45
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Keep the ratings but separate them from reviews. If ratings without review are permitted then allow reviews without ratings Don't publish calculate averages, they're meaningless. Use them internally to calculate the QWR for chart position if you must but the charts are meaningless too, especially those that compare albums from different bands, subgenres and times. For example Close To The Edge is PA's favourite Yes album is more meaningful than Close To The Edge is PA's favourite Symphonic Prog album, which in turn is more meaningful than it being PA's most favourite album of 1972 or PA's most favourite Prog album of all time. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 07:22
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I find ratings totally unnecessary when stuck at the end of a thorough review - or even detrimental, because many people will just scroll down to find the rating, ignoring a review that may have cost hours of work. Unfortunately, as I have already said elsewhere, the majority of Internet users seem to love rating anything with passionate intensity - just look at sites such as Yelp or TripAdvisor - so I don't think we stand a chance in hell of seeing ratings scrapped any time soon. However, I think an effort should be made to eliminate reviewless ratings, which often present a rather questionable picture of an album, as well as being used to manipulate album standings in the site's numerous Top X lists. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 07:35
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there really is no reason now to keep ratings without reviews. The world is a different place today than it was 10+ years ago and the foundations of the site were being laid down. The proliferation of review sites and of course personal reviewing blogs have taken many (potential) reviewing voices from the site. Anyone incapable of writing a review here can, and likely is, writing them elsewhere. Get rid of ratings without reviews definitely.. zero need for them. Also removes the persistant headache the admins have faced for years in combating ratings abuse/manipulation. I see no one picked up what I had proposed.. so I'll try yet again. This thread came out of the what would you change thread. The basis of change.. is improvement. What does the site really lack.. Passion and purpose. The forum has settled into domestic bliss of getting up a 6am.. catching the bus to work, arriving home, having dinner with the wife, watching the boobtube for a few hours before retiring to bed.. to start the whole process again the next day. What the forum need.. a purpose. The RS top list generated a lot of interest and discussion. I came here to PA's from a site that created directly in response to the infamous RS Guitarist list of 2002. We worked to objectively as humanly possible rank these things. That is what the forum needs.. involve everyone a giant project to replace the current ratings driven album list with a comprehensive and definitive album list. We have a lot of smart people here.. engage them.. make use of them. Bring some life and purpose to forum other than silly polls and oft done discussion topics. get rid of ratings altogether as the first step to doing something to improve the site in a larger sense. A grand crusade of prog fans to create THE list. If RS can do it, this site can.. and one a helluva lot better as well. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: mogol
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 08:50
If ordinary users love this feature (and I also think much of them really do), its abolishment will lead to decrease of interest in the site. The more rights and freedom you give to people, the more they are apt to use and develop the system. That's why I used to propose to give close to ablolute freedom to users here - adding new artists (I don't now as I understand technical problems related to such possibility). So no, I don't think simply getting rid of ratings won't make the site any good. Better think of how to make the rating system produce more realistic results - as of now most part of albums here have scores between 3.5 and 4.5, thus being considered as 'excellent'.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 08:50
I can still eventually see the site dropping the rating-only (or at least not accepting new ones), but getting rid of them altogether cannot function, IMHO.... losing the ratings would certainly diminish the quantity of users... and not necessarily augment (or keep the status quo) on qualitative users. Simply because the "normal" user needs them and expects them (replacing them with 0 to 5 I Like would be the same).... Sadly we're in a world where giving your useless opinions (whether for or against) have become the success of many sites... I definitely don't see a rating as detrimental to a review. I myself find ratings very useful*** Too bad if an idiot user sees the rating >> his loss really. Raff: I'm at the base of the idea of placing the rating below the review in the submit review box ( mailto:M@X" rel="nofollow - M@X immediately implemented that after I suggested it >> which goes to show that when he wants to... he can), even if in reality, it doesn't change much, since the stars are still showing at the top of the review. The idea was to first write the review and then put a rating on the album. And in music, the most popular database sites (is there one more popular than RYM?), they seem to all function via star system. ***: Actually I participate to Gnosis2000, where it is ratings-only and very few reviews... the ratings are based on a solid 00 to 15 to -- and it works very well. I trust the site at 99.7% because I know a lot of the raters... Of course, we're a selected (elist a..hole) bunch with more or less the same aesthetics and musical loves. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:05
No technical problems, just logistic ones. We are not RYM so the artist additions criteria has to be strictly observed to ensure the artists qualify as prog artists. We had free-for-all additions in the past and it's was a terrible idea that people can, will and did abuse. If you personally want to add artists then prove your worth and become a collaborator on one of the teams.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:08
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Personally I don't think rating should be terminated, for reasons other have stated already. Ratings and lists are both expected, both features need to be present. Even dedicated, hardcore fans use them as a means of navigation, at least the ratings. What is lacking are reviewers. New reviewers, quality reviewers. If this site had a reviewing team, it would soon be swimming in enough promos to fill up a swimming hall. Or three. Especially if said reviews were highlighted in some manner - upper half of the front page for instance. That would also, hopefully, create a drive for the ordinary reviewers to develop their skills well enough to become official reviewers. In this age of music streaming left, right, up and down as well as in the middle, those who would need pointers for material to try out on, the unreviewed album list for instance, could get easy guidance to those. Something that over time would lead to more reviews and better reviews. If this site needs it? That's another thing of course. Personally I'm not all that impressed by neither blogs or even some sites in terms of how reviews are written. Then again, my mentor in that department is an old fashioned writer, who learned the craft when reviews were still an art form and not just a case of merely stating how much you like an album or not, and at best with some some reasons as to why that is the case. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:22
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I get what you're saying Olav, but speaking for myself here: I would hate to be part of a team where I HAD to review certain albums. That's also why I mostly thank no to acts asking for a review. I also highly suspect that noone really bothers reading them - maybe except for the people who also do reviews. In todays day and age people stream their music or look for a rating. Reading 300 words in a row is just too much of a hassle. This is also why I've (almost) stopped doing them. They seem fruitless. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:25
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^ ahh... the elephant in the room.. exposed. As I noted.. it is a different world out there. I applaud the reviewers here... but how many are really read. There is a wealth of information out there by hard core dedicated reviewers in blogs and professsion(or not) review sites. WE have great reviewers here, but sadly are often submerged quickly beneath amateur hour.. that is why I stopped. I sucked.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:39
Don't get me wrong - I would love for things to be different; I just don't see any proof suggesting that members or visitors read READ the frontpage.....and I happen to love writing reviews  I do read em though. Man I don't know what I would've done if I'd missed Michael's (Neu!mann) recent Amon Düül write-up. That thing was hilarious and wonderfully written. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 10:06
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1. I think people will give ratings in their reviews anyway, whether or not a PA-facilitated system is in place. 2. Rating is fun. It isn't necessary, or very beneficial aside from the charts exposing users to albums. Early on, I scoured the charts and found a lot of albums I loved there. I'd hate to lose that. 3. It's odd that people are complaining about overly "subjective" reviews. Faced with an objective rating system, people look for more objective reasons to praise or decry an album. Unfortunately, here that translates to "the playing... the compositions..." examining the music like it's a table (is it solid?) and not someone's personal expression. I'd rather hear people review as human beings and talk about the themes of the album and how certain elements of the music might heighten or undermine what the artist is trying to express. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 10:39
I was an "official" reviewer for a number of years, and am still part of the DPRP reviewing team. Though at present there is quite a respectable number of reviewers on board, a good deal of the promos received by the two or three contact persons remains unreviewed for a long time - in some cases for close to a year. This happens because no one is forced to review stuff outside their comfort zone, which of course is a good thing. Unfortunately, many people just look at the artist name and brief description of the music, and don't even bother to listen to one or two samples. On the other hand, when a "big-name" album comes out, you have to fight people off roundtable reviews (which in some recent cases have involved up to 6 people). This means that even having a team of regular reviewers would not guarantee that every album gets written about. There is just too much stuff released nowadays - and, let's be honest, quality control seems to be at an all-time low. That being said, artists still consider reviews extremely important, and see them as a means to attract potential listeners' attention. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 10:45
The downfall of the reviews as a guide to buying music was something that dismayed me a bit as well. Reviews are occasionally read still, but as far as purchasing decisions go they aren't what they used to be indeed. But some still care for them. - The artists themselves. Reviews, especially well written reviews, are a core feedback system for many artists. They will also use reviews of quotes from them for various promotional activities, and many reviews will also help the artist to determine where and how to direct marketing - Labels. Partially for reasons above if the artists is signed, but also as reference material if they are considering signing an artist. Something that still happens, although on rather different terms than in the glory days. - Promoters of various kinds. They will look through reviews to see whether artists will fit certain type of events or not, again as reference material and then one of many. - Buyers. Perhaps more rare these days indeed, but reviews still make an impact. Often as a part of a totality, a key piece of a puzzle where other pieces needs to be in place as well, but they still have a role to play. Some years back I started getting promos from a small, UK label called Fruits de Mer Records. They had been trawling MySpace and some other channels for people to write about their releases: Vinyl singles featuring cover versions of mostly old psychedelic classics. I replied them and basically told them to add me to their promo list - but put me last in line. The first few years the promo letters I got were extensive, flashy affair with multiple pages of gold and colored paper attached to the CD-R promo. I later got to know that the label had a hard time finding people willing to write about their products, and that they were sort of suffering from the spell of silence. Fast forward a few years and the label have reviewers in place, are played and promoted on radio, their promo sendouts, now more regular one-sheets and with generally less stuff sent out, sell at fairly steep prizes whenever they hit ebay. Their vinyl releases have a tendency to sell out while on pre-order, they have expanded to do albums and original material, and artists and magazines actually approach them for inclusion and coverage respectively. A grand totality which includes reviews have made that possible, combined with high quality releases this created a buzz that started feeding on itself and spreading. The reviews alone wasn't important, but without them this wouldn't have happened. Other elements, like word of mouth, radio stations picking this up, minor magazine features...all of them played a role, and all of them had to be in place for this development to take place. You can to some extent see something similar on a more general level. Releases by Inside Out will typically sell more, often much more, than releases by labels such as Mellow, Musea or Lizard. Reviews have their role there as well, again as an element in a greater totality. The age of reviews as a standalone, important and vital marketing feature that directly leads to sales is gone. They are still important, but now on a different level and, to some extent at least, as a part of a different context as well. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 12:53
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Online reviews and ratings are not transparent so their value is questionable. In the UK the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) are http://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-endorsements-potential-non-disclosure" rel="nofollow - currently investigating "paid for reviews" on consumer websites such as Trip Adviser and Check-a-trade, and Amazon is http://www.yahoo.com/tech/amazons-had-enough-of-fake-reviews-on-its-site-116028350069.html" rel="nofollow - taking legal action against companies who pay for fake reviews of their own products. While fake reviews are less of a problem for such trivia as album reviews on publicly accessible review sites such as the PA or RYM, it would imprudent to pretend that they don't exist or are of no concern, the term "payola" was coined for the dubious practices of the music industry after all. Just because the behemoth of major labels has been consigned to history (at least from our "prog" perspective) does not mean that the plethora of one-man-and-his-dog labels and self-release artists that have replaced it are above reproach. Anything that damages the integrity of the PA, such as the behaviour of rating manipulation abusers, will have a knock-on affect on the public's confidence in the unsolicited reviews we publish. ------------- What? |
Posted By: mogol
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 13:01
No, I don't promote myself here :) I have my blog where I can add any artist, so my ego is satisfied. I just do believe that giving more rights to simple users can breathe some fresh air into this site and help it develop. I think that it's the users that are the most valuable resource. The most part of database here has been filled and reviews written not by administration, but by users. At the same they in general are not trusted. As for the lack of reviews here - how many reviews of one album a person, who hasn't yet listened to it, needs? There is no problem when most reviews are positive or negative, but when there is the whole specter of emotions what does it say to the reader? Almost nothing. So not the quantity, but quality is more important.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 14:11
I doubt there would be proof either way.. but I do think it dovetails to the overall trend that listeners and bands don't necessarily see the site as the place to go. It used to be you couldn't go a day without having some band or band member come on .. promoting his band and asking our teams to evaluate them for addition. Now these days.. other than 1 man solo productions and a few crusaders who are seen to be pestering the genre with suggestion.. that has all sort of dried up. Why Social media and blogs review sites... bands can reach directly to audiences and also have their albums reviewed and spotlighted.. not just here on the front page here and often only for a short time before disappearing (with a questionable notion of how many actually glace at the front page. My bookmark is set to the forum page.. where are all of yours set?). It is only when I want to know OF a specific album do I check reviews. and even then.. like many long term music fans. .we rely not on reviewers but personal recommendations from people we know and know our tastes. As far as reviews.. I don't know if there is anything to be done.. or should be done. It is a natural evolution. However I've always liked the notion of something simple yet nourishing like 'reviews of the day' where good reviews are given some love and perhaps a bone. Perhaps giving them top billing for the next day. Small things like could encourage, might put some wind back the sails of reviewers who do wonder why they might bother.. and still... keeping on topic.... ratings need to go.. a byproduct of a day and time and site here that really isn't pertinent today. Pure inertia man. As I noted in the other thread. Perhaps the caretakers of the site should be looking at how to tweak and improve things .. sometimes it not always best to think.. if it ain't broke don't fix it. The only way things can improve and get better.. is if one makes an effort to improve them. And change or tweaking things...9 times out of 10 is the instrument to improvement. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 14:37
This is a collaborative volunteer site, every single one of the more than 280 collaborators and reviewers are ordinary visitors to the site who stayed to help out. Even the site and forum Admins are (unpaid) volunteers. so one except the site owner can delete an unwanted artist so there has to be some level of control in which artists can be added and which cannot. I trust people in general but I do not trust every one, (only a complete fool would trust every one on the internet), allowing uncontrolled additions would lead to stupid additions by stupid people and the world is full of those. ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 15:12
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I would like to see the album ratings to include half stars. For example 3.5 stars instead of rounding off to 4.That said, I wouldn't change a thing. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 03:25
Personally I still get asked ten times a year (if not more, I'm not counting) to review stuff. This is some kind of fishing (I don't know how many they contact on site), but obviously they just approach me blindly (probably given I'm still on #2 reviewer on PA), because if they'd read some of them (reviews), rhey might back out I kindly decline their offer, not because I won't like (since when has that stopped me?  ); but because I lack time ... and drive... Haven't written a review ever since my laptop was stolen last NovemberSo personally, the last thing I want is to be showered by demands for reviews of stuff I will probably not care the slightest for
yup, despite the fact that I haven't written a review since the loss of my computer, I was really not nearly as enthusiastic about reviewing anymore - and JS' (Easy Money) attitude on JMA (though understandable >> good reviewing for jazz is much tougher) nearly killed my drive about 18 months ago. However, I do think that rsome eviews are being read while listening to the samples offered (either here or elsewhere). It seems natural to do so - a normal process of investigation (at least to moi)
Nobody's reviews are more entertaining than Rollie's (Chicapah) IMHO. The man is a gifted writer than sends me back to my keyboard every time I read one of his reviews. As for the frontpage; I think people peruse who's reviewed and what album, but probably will not read the reviews there, but will do so in the dedicated pages. Actually, I suspect that when an album gets reviewed a few times in the last 20 rebviews, it's a reaction to one particular review that might have offended (so some do read them on the frontpage). As for me, I often became aware that so & so was added to the DB because I saw theur album reviewed on the front page. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 03:38
This has been a subject for years, especially when sme sites are so prominent (like TA) that you can"t find the actual hotel or restaurant's page anymore. I simply never look at TA pages... I may be neandertalic in my way of acting, but I only use the web, once my choice is more or less set and need to make reservations I generally agree with what you say, but payola was for certain artistes to get airplay on radios to brainwash the easy masses... I kind of doubt that someone would pay another just to write extatic reviews on an uncommercial site like PA or RYM, unless it's the artiste itself doing it. Writing an excellent review is not that effective unless you push it into a discussion (in forum, for ex) to defend it. (IMHO, anyway) |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 04:53
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I read a lot of them ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 05:59
This is exactly the reason I would not support scrapping ratings even though I personally find them useless at this point. I don't want PA to become, well, kind of irrelevant for the large majority of users. However that we may find the obsession with ratings silly, we'll just have to go along imo.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 07:16
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Hugues: Big fan of Rollie's reviews here as well!! In fact, I have a lot of "favourite" reviewers on PA. People who, in the past 7-8 years, continuously have been successful in luring money out of my wallet. Though, as much as I dig his reviews, I'm not sure I ever bought an album on the basis of one of Rollie's. Most of the albums he writes about are ones I already have in my collection (or have heard). I tend to favour the more obscure write-ups, that is if I'm in the mood for love...sorry new music! As for the current times of allergy to reading, I may have changed my mind - or at the very least changed my viewpoint. Maybe it's enough to have just one person read your review, if he or she got a kick out of it. (I'm merely trying to talk myself into writing again) ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 08:01
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Yes, ... and here are my reasons: 1. The lists! The five-star system is used for listing and sorting. Let's admit that some of us place some value into lists. "This album is at #6, that one is at #1." But why? Because of the demographics. Because of math, basically. Why is that? ... [shrugs] A list should have a purpose. If the purpose is to recommend albums EPs, etc., then who are we sorting for? Moreover, who are we listing and recommending for (because we, the progheads, are not all the same)? Besides, the max. listing capacity is 250 entries. For me that's not enough. RYM allows for way more than that ... in pages! Just a lot of symbolism over substance. 2. The five-star system is confusing. It brings up the question of merit vs. honesty. Objective vs. subjective. Cold technicality vs. soul. I really don't know how many of us rate albums, EPs, etc. based on his/her own criteria and how many take the PA star system criteria seriously. I'm pretty sure there is a great number of people falling into the former group, which is why I say: The stars won't tell you what a review can. Also, why wouldn't everyone sincerely recognize Tangerine Dream's Rubycon as "Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music"? Why did the album earn the title based on math instead of its intrinsic merits? 3. If you want to keep the five-star system, ... fine. But why are we sticking with integral values? Don't we have reviewers who use whole stars but write in their reviews: "... but, oh, ... 4.5 stars, really." Does that sound familiar? You can use or not use stars for your own reasons, as many stars as you want, or be creative and come up with a system of your own and put that in your review. 4. I don't find it fun as others do. If anything, it made things more complicated than they should be. If you don't wish to improve the five-star system, get rid of it. But hey, ... if you really want to keep the system because it makes such a deep psychological influence on our members and Web-tourists, ... OK. Keep it.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 08:26
What scums, uh???   As for Rollie, I know what you mean... it's generally albums I already know (I don't remember reading a review of a "new" (post 00's) album) .... but he's got such a fantastic way to talk about those old albums, that I immediately reserve/borrow ASAP from the library those I don't own... Just for the pleasure to read him. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 09:30
All artists with recent releases (or not so recent where the artist is still active) that have few or no reviews here, that aren't firmly established "stars" somewhere, deeply appreciate detailed feedback about their creations. The greater majority of them prefer feedback and highly respect feedback that is honest and well founded. More artists than the collabs are aware of are users of this site, even if not registered ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 00:19
Well you're one of em Hugues (and sorry for my tardy response). I hate having to list my fave writers because I always manage to forget half of em....and then go back endlessly to edit my post with new additions. I don't want to leave any out. One though, who I soarely miss, is Chris (Seventhsojourn). He did a fantastic job on Os Mundi's Latin Mass. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 00:23
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....and yes I still firmly support the notion of scrapping ratings altogether. Putting a numeric value on something as volatile and changing as music is fruitless and downright silly. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 02:25
Well, I'm glad you manage to enjoy my sometimes-embarrassing drivel, cos sometimes I'm not sure where I get at. Once my drive to write reviews come back, I'll first attack a few un-worthy reviews, where I can do so much better (Soft Machine and Crimson's studio albums, for ex). I feel that it is important to do so, because generally my reviews sit in the top of the page, so they must/should be presentable. I'm still rid of flaws in my written English... Like most Latin people, I tend to do overlong sentences and try to put too much in a single one (namely by using/abusing of brackets for comments or asides or these "-" things), which can be confusing as hell. Because a lot of reviewer are not English-mother-tonged and their English can be approximative. RYM solved that problem by allowing reviews of all languages (they even allow chinese or cyrillic characters). That's why I'm in favour of keeping them ratings, to make sure one understands or feels the way the reviewer goes. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 02:55
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I like the fact that you always managed to be somewhat conservative with the masterpiece status.....again not a condonement of the star system on my behalf, but if we're going to use the buggers, it's important that we won't reduce things we like to 5s and those we don't to 1s, which sadly is how many of our raters go about it. (even if I at times feel you're being too conservative:-P Common man - Igor Wakhevitch's Logos and Docteur Faust both are masterpieces!!! Still loved your little Igor stint as he seems to be completely overlooked on PA...and everywhere else for that matter.) I would actually be in favour of allowing reviews in other languages - as long as we had some way of telling if the individual reviews followed the guidelines, although that sounds rather impossible. We would have to have some linguist admins come to the fore for that to ever fly. Instead of ratings though - then why not make it possible for members to have a list of their fave/most hated albums? That way we're still able to see what people go for without resorting to numbers. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 04:48
Indeed, despite some reviewers misusing the star system (or not using them according to moi!!! ), it doesn't bother me greatly. Ultimately the ratings come out relatively the same throughout RM and PA ... the better albums come out on top within a group's discography. However, the trick I use is not just to compare each album within a band's catalogue or within a given genre, but also in rock music history and how it could be significant. So yeah, it's not just about what and how I love the album, outside factors can interfere for added points.... and I specify it in the review. Of course, no site equals Gnosis2000 , which I trust it almost blindly, not just because I'm one of the chosen few)  As for allowing reviews in other languages, it wouldn't be too hard to get one or two Spanish or French speakers collabs (.... or Dutch .... or German... Or Italian... or even Japanese) to peruse over them incoming reviews ... OK, sure , getting a few Indonesians, Ethiopians, a couple of Georgians (what f  g alphabet they got!! ) or Iranians might prove a ittle more difficult |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 05:19
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I would gladly take care of any Italian-language reviews. Unfortunately, Georgian or Ethiopian would be somewhat beyond my skills . |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 07:09
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Nice one Raff! I can easily take care of the Scandinavian lingos bar the Finnish, which is complete gibberish to me. I can count to three though but that's all ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 19 2015 at 03:21
I know what Hoyry Kone and Haikara mean... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 19 2015 at 04:08
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I struggle understanding reviews written in English most days. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 19 2015 at 10:03
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YES! and reviews too! Just keep the database. ------------- |