I just don't understand Opeth's last two albums.
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Topic: I just don't understand Opeth's last two albums.
Posted By: ProgSword
Subject: I just don't understand Opeth's last two albums.
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 02:41
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What am I missing? Heritage was decently received here on PA, and Pale Communion has a surprisingly high rating. This is in stark contrast to the poor reception of the metal community (although they hate these albums for shallow reasons, but I still find myself in their camp). I just don't think Åkerfeldt's strong suit is prog. When I heard Heritage was going to be a straight prog album, I was ecstatic, and I hated how all of Opeth's metal fans basically condemned it before even listening (just because it has "no balls" or something ridiculous). After all, I consider myself a prog fan before a metalhead. But then, I jumped right on the hate bandwagon after listening, because Heritage was just boring as sin. Most of the music feels dry and uninspiring. I understand this is the album Åkerfeldt's wanted to write his whole life, but it reminds me of the musical equivalent to poor fanfiction. Pale Communion felt like an extension of this. I will say though, I count Folklore and River as part of my top five Opeth songs. If both albums showed the promise of their respective standout tracks, I would fully endorse this prog Opeth over their metal past. But it just feels to me like Åkerfeldt's best song writing comes out when he writes metal with prog elements. Anything else comes off like some King Crimson rejected material. But maybe I just don't get it. I had similar feelings about Tales of Topgraphic Oceans, but at least that sounded original from the get go.
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Replies:
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 04:35
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I think that Heritage was one of the best Åkerfeldt's works, it's a quintessence of Opeth's style and atmosphere, but without death growls. I don't think it was a plain 70's styled prog, it was really an Opeth album. Pale Communion, on the other hand, was a disappointment to me, it's surely too keen on 70's prog, and also borrows too much sound and atmosphere from 'Watershed'. The only albums I would rate lower than Pale Communion are My Arms Your Hearse and Still Life (yes, I believe Still Life is way too overrated here). ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:19
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First off, I disagree with you about the metal commuinity completely hating on the two most recent Opeth albums, when I saw them last year there were a lot of people that were very excited when they started to play Cusp of Eternity, which went down really well. I don't particualrly like Heritage, it's a mish-mash of ideas lacking in any real coherance resulting in noodly, meandering affairs that don't really do much. Pale Communion takes similar ideas but applies much more focus to the composition and development of said ideas, with the result being their best album since Blackwater Park. It's been a damn long time since they were last this good. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:45
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I don't hang around metal forums, so I wouldn't know anything about the reception the metal community gave to those two albums. What I know is that I found Heritage terminally boring, and Pale Communion rather unimpressive on my first and only listen. I definitely liked Opeth much better when they still had a strong metal component to their music - and that includes the growls. |
Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:51
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^I'm underway quite in the opposite direction - Pale Communion is one of my favourite 2014 albums, probably because I'm not a declared metal fan ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: wrax
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:04
| I didn't like Pale Communion on first listen. Or second listen for that matter. The dodgy 5.1 mix didn't help either as I had a faulty disc which was later replaced. Moans aside, nearly six months after buying it I have changed my opinion. After recent repeat listenings, I have come to the conclusion that this is a very good and sophisticated album after all. I understand the frustration of the metalheads out there, wanting more "Demon of the Fall" or "Deliverance" or "White Cluster" when we end up with is something nearer to Comus or mid-70s Jethro Tull without the flutes. It is a record which needs time but it does eventually sneak up on you without you noticing. |
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:27
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I'll be the second to note that many longtime fans from metal side ended up being as keen on the new album as almost all from the purely prog side were. It's pretty good, but it's more for those who are down with modern takes on the '70's symph sound. -------------  
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:30
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Perhaps Opeth wants to be seen as being great musicians rather than great death metal musicians, whereby they have limited their options to a select group of listeners who somehow think death growls are pertinent to the music. As for myself, I see death growls as a metal stereotype that serves no real purpose, and, being so ubiquitous in so many bands for so many years, is neither innovative, clever or anything more than bad halloweenish theatrics. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 12:29
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I've had that issue with Opeth for a long for the same reasons as the OP and Raff, also with Edge of Sanity for a while. A lot of progressive metal sounds like an outsider approximation of either parent genre, and usually is. Some of them end up turning that to a positive, like Voivod for instance, but in Opeth's case I find it results in their longer more ambitious songs not being anywhere as well composed as most of the 1970s prog rock bands they're imitating. Found them way better at being a Katatonia-style death/doom metal group that happened to be a bit spacier than usual. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: progrockdeepcuts
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 12:40
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That's okay, I *really* don't understand the 8 or so albums leading up to the last two, but I love Heritage and Pale Communion. ------------- Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/ |
Posted By: Stereolab
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 03:42
Agree completely. To me Heritage is an epic disaster, one of the most spectacular examples of how a great band can go wrong by not knowing its strengths. Åkerfeldt thought he could make straight prog? OK, no problem, take six months, write some songs and see what happens. What they should have done then was realize the outcome was a disaster, toss it, and go back to making genius metal like Ghost Reveries (still get goosebumps listening to "The Grand Conjuration"). But whatever. If there's one thing the metal world doesn't lack for at the moment, it's insanely good bands, so I'm not gonna lie and say they're missed all THAT much...
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Raff wrote:Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 10:37
| I have some sympathy with the OP and Raff's views but I also find The Dark Elf's view pertinent. I never had any interest in Opeth until Heritage. I can listen to it and Pale Communion but neither seem particularly earth shattering. However I will likely persevere which I doubt I would have done with a straighter metal based approach. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 10:46
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See, I liked Opeth back when I listened to metal a lot in my somewhat younger days before I knew prog. When I got into prog, along with a slew of genres and styles, I slowly moved away from Opeth, eventually losing all interest. Heritage got me back into them a little, then Pale Communion got me back into them more, but I still don't listen as often as i used to. It was strange to compare Heritage with the previous albums, so I saw it as a transitional album. I haven't digested PC as much as I should have, but the albums have a quality that I like, though nothing too crazy. I think I like it more because of where they came from, and I see these newer albums as more like Mikael solo albums, with the Opeth logo slapped on the front cover. I think context is needed and I'm still interested in where they go next on the follow up, but that album may be the deciding factor if I care to keep up any more. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 11:13
^This.... I tried to get into earlier Opeth but simply couldn't handle the growling vocals. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 11:15
Couldn't have stated my sentiments any better Raff. |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 15:30
Yeah, this is my feeling as well. I actually own Damnation, but really didn't enjoy it that much. I also had Blackwater Park, but really couldn't get into it. I've heard songs from other albums as well, and while I didn't particularly dislike them (growling vocals and all) I wasn't terribly impressed or interested in hearing more. These last two albums I like quite a bit. Probably not in my top 10 for the year for either, but still very good albums that I enjoy listening to very much. I may actually go back and check out Ghost Reveries and Watershed, since they seem to have been leading up to Harvest with those (even if their sound hadn't changed all that drastically yet). |
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 01:20
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I guess I'm in the minority that enjoys anything Opeth do. Really hoping they play more of the newer material when I catch them in Adelaide in May though. Not because I dislike the older songs but because I want to hear how the newer songs work live. This will be my third time seeing them live. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: March 22 2015 at 03:40
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so well so sorry im in the there crap... ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: dennis_musiclover
Date Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:02
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i really like the new opeth album... but my friend also say's there's something missing...
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:16
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I think what I really want is for them to find the happy middle ground between Pale Communion, Ghost Reveries, and Blackwater Park. A little bit of growls wouldn't hurt, but they wouldn't need to be the main focus. The harmonies on Pale Communion are beautifully done, and some of the music is just downright amazing... it does completely miss a sense of drama to me though. It doesn't feel dramatic, and it doesn't feel overwhelming at all. Every time I hear Pale Communion I just think to myself... why couldn't he mix a little death metal stylistically in there? Why did he have to go one way or the other? Why couldn't he stretch himself further in ALL directions and create a true death metal slash throwback prog masterpiece??? ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:17
 ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: March 25 2015 at 18:30
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I was never a huge Opeth fan - I liked Blackwater Park and Ghost Reveries, but could have done without the Cookie Monster vocals. As much as I have always loved certain kinds of metal, those kinds of vocals don't really do it for me. I wanted to love Heritage, but found it a bit too obscure - some really nice moments, but overall I was underwhelmed and only listened to it a few times. I didn't pay attention when Pale Communion was released, noticed that they were playing locally last year when they toured but didn't go. Then, for some reason, I took a chance and bought Pale Communion - fell in love right away and kicked myself for missing the tour! I really love this album, I think the compositions are very moving and the album works great as a whole. I think my favorite track is "Goblin" (but I prefer instrumental music anyway) - in fact, I love the last four tracks, individually and as a group. It also led me to go back to Heritage, which I have come to appreciate much more. It's harder to listen to on a surface level - the exciting parts are too far apart and there's too much quiet where it seems like nothing is happening - but if you let it be what it is without expectations, then I think the beauty of the album reveals itself.
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: March 25 2015 at 21:23
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Aside from the stunning drum play of Martin Axelrodt on Heritage, I have had to force myself to listen to these albums just to give them a chance. Heritage has interesting and sophisticated parts but nothing, absolutely nothing that brings me back. Not one song. I have never been able to sit/stay attentive through a whole-album listening to Pale Communion. I hear absolutely nothing of interest to me. No power or rawness, no innovation or fresh ideas. Not one melodic or technical "hook" gains my notice. Weird. (cuz I love music.) ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Green Shield Stamp
Date Posted: April 06 2015 at 03:53
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Opeth's last two albums are their best. The further they move away from death metal the better they get. Akerfeldt has a great clean voice - much better than all that silly devil growling. The last two albums show a band maturing and putting away those childish things. ------------- Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 06 2015 at 23:01
Well, I would love them to do a full prog metal album without growling. Pale Comunion was great, really, but it never got into real metal territory... hard rock at best. No growling nor Death Metal necessary, but indeed I would love some more metal from them. |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: April 12 2015 at 07:33
That would be a good way to go for me too. My initial enthusiasm for Heritage waned somewhat, feeling it meandered at times and whilst I still think it's good, Pale Communion is a much superior album. I'd like to see something between Ghost Reveries and Watershed with clean vocals.
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Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: April 12 2015 at 10:13
I don't think the metal community hates the new Opeth as much as they think it pales  in comparison to their supposed prog death metal masterpieces. I've heard all their albums, and while I do like Blackwater Park and Still Life and all the most well-received albums, none have completely floored me. The last two are no different, so in my opinion Heritage and Pale Communion are as good as any Opeth album just more classic prog sounding.
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Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: April 12 2015 at 11:20
| Being a metalhead and a progger, "Ghost Reveries" is the album I like the least. It tried to satisfy both genres but ended up being substandard. I found "Heritage" to be a really good record, and I've heard "Pale Communion" just once, so I don't have strong opinions about it. Anyway, for me, "Watershed" is the perfect Opeth album. |
Posted By: zeitgeist
Date Posted: May 05 2015 at 05:36
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Must admit the name of this thread summarises also my feelings quite aptly. In Finland Pale Communion got rather well recieved by the musical press and I had big expectations beforehand but at least after a couple of initial listens nothing really was moved in my mind - somehow uninteresting/-inspiring stuff, sorry to say. |