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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: June 28 2007 at 09:51 |
 StyLaZyn wrote:
Statistically, if all albums were only allowed 50 reviews, I'm sure we'd see a significant ranking change outside the top 10.
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I'm not sure without doing the maths, but I doubt it would make a huge difference, there are bands in the top 50 with fewer than 40 ratings, which suggests that the results are skewed in favour of bands that are highly-regarded within their genre, (which is what I think Mike's algorythm was trying to achieve).
The bands with lesser exposure have a piffling number of reviews and ratings by comparision (there are hundreds of bands with fewer than 10 ratings).
My solution for redressing the balance is simple:
stop reviewing and rating the bands in the top 100
start reviewing and rating the albums with few ratings.
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What?
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 09:53 |
darqdean wrote:
stop reviewing and rating the bands in the top 100
start reviewing and rating the albums with few ratings.
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I couldn't agree more.Or if an album has say 200 ratings, why rate it more? Close the rating.
Edited by StyLaZyn - June 28 2007 at 09:54
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 10:03 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=darqdean]
I couldn't agree more.Or if an album has say 200 ratings, why rate it more?
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Because the site isn't setting any restriction at all to those who want to review an album (whether it's in the top, with hundred of reviews, or with no reviews, ignored by anybody). Nor does it think of what reviewers are oriented towards (meaning that there is no telling if a fan of prog is keen on all these popular albums or likes to go through more various and obscure styles). In other words, it just can't be stopped or restricted/directed. There is no abuse, there isn't even an unnatural thing.
Edited by Ricochet - June 28 2007 at 10:04
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 10:05 |
Ricochet wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=darqdean]
I couldn't agree more.Or if an album has say 200 ratings, why rate it more?
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Because the site isn't setting any restriction at all to those who want to review an album (whether it's in the top, with hundred of reviews, or with no reviews, ignored by anybody).
Nor does it think of what reviewers are oriented towards (meaning that there is no telling if a fan of prog is keen on all these popular albums or likes to go through more various and obscure styles).
In other words, it just can't be stopped or restricted/directed. There is no abuse, there isn't even an unnatural thing.
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So what you are saying is a ratings bias is totally acceptable.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 10:19 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=darqdean]
I couldn't agree more.Or if an album has say 200 ratings, why rate it more?
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Because the site isn't setting any restriction at all to those who want to review an album (whether it's in the top, with hundred of reviews, or with no reviews, ignored by anybody).
Nor does it think of what reviewers are oriented towards (meaning that there is no telling if a fan of prog is keen on all these popular albums or likes to go through more various and obscure styles).
In other words, it just can't be stopped or restricted/directed. There is no abuse, there isn't even an unnatural thing.
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So what you are saying is a ratings bias is totally acceptable.
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I'm saying that MIster X - fan of progressive rock - has his one awarded chance to review an album (whether that's Close To The Edge or Cardeilhac, Wish You Were Here or Sebkha Chott etc.) Except if he abuses by reviewing, his review is valid and welcomed (whether that would be the first review of the album or the 500th).
Edited by Ricochet - June 28 2007 at 10:19
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 10:35 |
Ricochet wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=darqdean]
I couldn't agree more.Or if an album has say 200 ratings, why rate it more?
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Because the site isn't setting any restriction at all to those who want to review an album (whether it's in the top, with hundred of reviews, or with no reviews, ignored by anybody).
Nor does it think of what reviewers are oriented towards (meaning that there is no telling if a fan of prog is keen on all these popular albums or likes to go through more various and obscure styles).
In other words, it just can't be stopped or restricted/directed. There is no abuse, there isn't even an unnatural thing.
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So what you are saying is a ratings bias is totally acceptable.
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I'm saying that MIster X - fan of progressive rock - has his one awarded chance to review an album (whether that's Close To The Edge or Cardeilhac, Wish You Were Here or Sebkha Chott etc.)
Except if he abuses by reviewing, his review is valid and welcomed (whether that would be the first review of the album or the 500th).
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I think the system as it is self-correcting, a single review out of 500 is worth 0.2% of the overal score, whereas the first review is the overall score.
The questions you have to ask yourself is: Have I got anything to say that hasn't been said before?
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What?
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 10:42 |
darqdean wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
[QUOTE=darqdean]
I couldn't agree more.Or if an album has say 200 ratings, why rate it more?
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Because the site isn't setting any restriction at all to those who want to review an album (whether it's in the top, with hundred of reviews, or with no reviews, ignored by anybody).
Nor does it think of what reviewers are oriented towards (meaning that there is no telling if a fan of prog is keen on all these popular albums or likes to go through more various and obscure styles).
In other words, it just can't be stopped or restricted/directed. There is no abuse, there isn't even an unnatural thing.
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So what you are saying is a ratings bias is totally acceptable.
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I'm saying that MIster X - fan of progressive rock - has his one awarded chance to review an album (whether that's Close To The Edge or Cardeilhac, Wish You Were Here or Sebkha Chott etc.)
Except if he abuses by reviewing, his review is valid and welcomed (whether that would be the first review of the album or the 500th).
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I think the system as it is self-correcting, a single review out of 500 is worth 0.2% of the overal score, whereas the first review is the overall score.
The questions you have to ask yourself is: Have I got anything to say that hasn't been said before? |
I have stopped rating albums without a review. I realized that a rating without a written review, it is an empty tally. Like you have indicated, there may be some redundancy in reviews, but taking the time to explain your rating helps to validate it.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 10:44 |
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I always makee a point of reviewing albums with a small number of ratings. I don't think I have anything to add about Close to the Edge. However, there's no reason to forbid other people from reviewing it if that's what makes them happy.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 11:04 |
thellama73 wrote:
I always makee a point of reviewing albums with a small number of ratings. I don't think I have anything to add about Close to the Edge. However, there's no reason to forbid other people from reviewing it if that's what makes them happy. |
Perhaps in terms of the bell curve and the law of averages, data points need to be thrown out to provide a more accurate mean. I know this is done in science to keep outliers in check.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 11:08 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I always makee a point of reviewing albums with a small number of ratings. I don't think I have anything to add about Close to the Edge. However, there's no reason to forbid other people from reviewing it if that's what makes them happy. |
Perhaps in terms of the bell curve and the law of averages, data points need to be thrown out to provide a more accurate mean. I know this is done in science to keep outliers in check.
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That doesn't work when there are only 5 marks to be awarded - it's too course.
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What?
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 11:11 |
darqdean wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I always makee a point of reviewing albums with a small number of ratings. I don't think I have anything to add about Close to the Edge. However, there's no reason to forbid other people from reviewing it if that's what makes them happy. |
Perhaps in terms of the bell curve and the law of averages, data points need to be thrown out to provide a more accurate mean. I know this is done in science to keep outliers in check.
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That doesn't work when there are only 5 marks to be awarded - it's too course. |
So statistically speaking, this would require a minimum set of data points before allowed to be added to the ranks.
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 11:15 |
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I hate to sound childish, but it's unfair to limit the number of reviews an album is allowed to have. At the very least it would cause a little stir. Would we have to have a lottery to decide who would review? Or would we all submit reviews to an admin, who would then pick the 50 best. I daresay the admins wouldn't like that job, especially with any Yes, DT, Crimson, Floyd, and Genesis albums. DT's another thing. You'd get 50 reviews before anyone got a legitimate copy of the album. Just let people review what they want. The odds are good people who start with the more "mainstream" artists will move deeper. That's what happened to me.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 11:17 |
darqdean wrote:
[
That doesn't work when there are only 5 marks to be awarded - it's too course. |
You mean coarse of course. 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 11:29 |
Snow Dog wrote:
darqdean wrote:
[
That doesn't work when there are only 5 marks to be awarded - it's too course. |
You mean coarse of course. |
of course, silly of me - if only this damn spell checker checked context as well 
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What?
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Joseth On Kings
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 31 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 73
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 13:05 |
Ghandi 2 wrote:
I don't think CTTE deserves to be in the top 10, and I'm certainly not going to sit here and let you say that Have A Cigar isn't prog, but I also am not going to write you an essay, so I will sum up my positions succintly:
Shut up, you. Nobody cares.
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You know if you say that nobody cares, then why do you care?
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 13:08 |
Joseth On Kings wrote:
Ghandi 2 wrote:
I don't think CTTE deserves to be in the top 10, and I'm certainly not going to sit here and let you say that Have A Cigar isn't prog, but I also am not going to write you an essay, so I will sum up my positions succintly:
Shut up, you. Nobody cares. |
You know if you say that nobody cares, then why do you care? |
If nobody cared, nobody would respond.
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Joseth On Kings
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 31 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 73
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Posted: June 28 2007 at 13:09 |
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Now I have to admit that I personally am not a big fan of Pink Floyd, except for Dark side of the moon, animals, and Another brick in the wall. So this isn't that big of a deal to me, but the whole rating system technically is only based on other peoples opinions and not by the government or whatever, so it's not like they're saying that that really is the 2nd best alblum it's just what people think.
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