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Magma? What?!

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Stigfzm View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 05 2024 at 07:41
Really, I have to sort this out : wtf Magma is all about?
As a new fan on prog-rock, I start with the Rolling Stone list of the 50 greatest, and it plays Magma's MDK, which just blows my mind. My expectation of prog rock in 70s is that every prog muscian's music can find their traces back to King Crimson's debut album or the Nice however tightly or loosely (acually here's a mistake thanks to the reply of the post below), like being symphonic, lush keyboard playing, frantic guitar solo, concept albums, etc, but Magam's MDK seems to just reinvent prog really. Later online research proves this point as they are creators of Zeuhl, one of the subgenres of prog, which are inacessible to me at my first attempt on MDK. However, it just keeps making spells on me, entrancing me to have more trials though I reluctantly want to do and I do actually. And several weeks later, I find myself within the unspeakable love towards MDK. How can I imagine that I have to hear Magma every day but months ago I fell asleep when listening to MDK. Just like Daily Doug once said, " I am not sure I am a fan, but yet..." Now I can understand why he says it.
Ok, enough for the gibberish. Some specific questions are needed to be answered for me: 
1. Where does Magma come from? I mean Christian Vander's musical inspiration. As aforementioned, nearly all prog bands came after King Crimson, Zappa or much earlier prog pioneers like the Nice, Procol Harum, chose to contain their legacies. However, Vander just inherited the idea to mix Jazz with rock and suddenly came up with some music I can't literally tell. How did he do that?
2. Is there a paradox about their fictitious language, Kobaian? Wikipedia quotes Vander's view on his language, "French just wasn't expressive enough. Either for the story or for the sound of the music". Really? Does Kobaian help audience to understand the story? It baffles me a lot to see him claim an entirely inaccessible language (especially for a Chinese guy like me) can express the story. Actually, I can get the point of British music critic Ian MacDonald, who said that Kobaïan is "phonetic, not semantic", and that it is based on "sonorities, not on applied meanings", especially in their debut album Kobaia's title song "Kobaia" when language dramatically changes from English to Kobaian and the "mic" is switched to a roaring man speaking Kobaian. But, how is it possible to write stories, develop concept albums totally based on Jazz and the artificial language? And how it it possbile to expect audience to understand them? At least, I can't do it. 
3. May anybody tell me the story of every Magma albums? Or, just give me the links and I will check them out.
Many thanks to you if you could give me answers.


Edited by Stigfzm - May 05 2024 at 17:54
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2024 at 13:08
Hey I like your post. That's all I have time for right now. But I'm sure some other Magma fans will help you out.

-Ok, listen to the rest of their albums chronologically. That worked like magic for me - after having started with MDK. 

-and btw, there's more prog out there that can't be traced back to King Crimson. Like most of the Canterbury Scene stuff (Soft Machine, Caravan etc...), most Krautrock like Can, Amon Düül... Zappa, Beefheart... and many more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2024 at 14:54
Originally posted by Stigfzm Stigfzm wrote:

Really, I have to sort this out : wtf Magma is all about?
Magma is well-known for its distinctive and alluring sound, which mainly combines jazz-rock, sympho-rock, and experimental rock components. The group gave rise to the 'Zeuhl' subgenre, which has impacted performers from many eras and subgenres.
Magma's music is distinguished by:
Huge Dynamics: Magma's music progresses from serene, eerily beautiful sections to powerful, edge-pushing times that test the skill of the gifted musicians.

American gospel and spiritual music, jazz great John Coltrane, classical minimalism, and classical composer Carl Orff are all influences on Christian Vander's compositions. Their music has an extra degree of mystery due to its distinctive, fictional Kobaïan language.

Science Fiction Storytelling: Vander wrote a science fiction scenario in which the band's songs recount the tale of humanity's ancestors living on Kobaïa, while hedonistic lifestyles on Earth bring about the planet's fate.

Magma's live shows are renowned for their ferocity, as Vander gives everything to the narrative and music. The band's enormous works and intricate compositions have had a lasting effect on the music landscape, inspiring other musicians around the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2024 at 17:41
take away the made-up language and the choral elements and it's just a jammy funky fusion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stigfzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2024 at 17:50
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Hey I like your post. That's all I have time for right now. But I'm sure some other Magma fans will help you out.

-Ok, listen to the rest of their albums chronologically. That worked like magic for me - after having started with MDK. 

-and btw, there's more prog out there that can't be traced back to King Crimson. Like most of the Canterbury Scene stuff (Soft Machine, Caravan etc...), most Krautrock like Can, Amon Düül... Zappa, Beefheart... and many more!

Sorry, my mistake. In fact, I realised that immediately after I posted, but, being new here, I didn't know how to revise it. I will try to figure out. Thank you.

Actually I really did listen to the rest of their albums and I made to Attahk, a fantastic album. 


Edited by Stigfzm - May 05 2024 at 17:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stigfzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2024 at 18:01
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

take away the made-up language and the choral elements and it's just a jammy funky fusion
Oh, yes. That's a good point. But, it's hard not to notice their language and vocals. Personally, MDK's vocals are comparable to ancient mystical sacrifices or rituals, which adds sanctity or holy halo to the whole compostition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2024 at 04:42
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

take away the made-up language and the choral elements and it's just a jammy funky fusion
That's a weird take.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2024 at 06:44
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

take away the made-up language and the choral elements and it's just a jammy funky fusion

Hi,

While I find this funny, it is, in some ways a sad comment about the totality of the works. If it had been a one and done situation, I would agree, but when you are talking over 50 years of continuity and incredible material, it makes me think that listening with a good heart and intent, just is not possible anymore, or considered.

Of all the "progressive" folks, no one has kept up the quality and continuity as MAGMA have over that time period. Many have changed ... but MAGMA just seems to get better.

Their live shows are a "church" moment, so to speak ... the quality and care of the work is so high and so far above many rock bands ... that it is scary.

The other side of it, is even more scary ... this is not a bunch of "songs" that clock in at 4 or 5 minutes like most pop music does ... and as such I think a lot of folks might take a bit longer to get into it.


Edited by moshkito - May 07 2024 at 15:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2024 at 07:48
live Magma was a fantastic experience, gotta agree! My band shared some festival bills with them coupla times over the last decade

but hey, I mean they're a REALLY GOOD jammy funky fusion!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGazzardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2024 at 09:18
Thanks for reminding me these guys exist, haven't listened in a while, gonna spin their last two albums in a bit.

IIRC they are largely inspired by all sorts of things, I remember John Coltrane and Richard Wagner being obvious touchpoints, inspired almost by militaristic repetition - etc etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Criswell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2024 at 08:12
Ok...I'll give Magma another try. We'll see if it takes this time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2024 at 08:32
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

live Magma was a fantastic experience, gotta agree! My band shared some festival bills with them coupla times over the last decade

but hey, I mean they're a REALLY GOOD jammy funky fusion!
I wasn't under the impression that you meant it as an insult. But how jammy is Magma really? And strip away the choir + the made up language (but why would you, when its there?) from Kohntarkosz, MDK, De Futura mm... and Magma would still be something unique. I mean without bothering to check, there's probably more than a hundred zeuhl-related bands and projects out there. At least half of them are instrumental. Why is it that "we" so easily (or at least I) recognize the sound of Zeuhl without the choir? I'd say it's because Magma isn't just really good jammy, funky fusion.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 07 2024 at 08:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2024 at 09:17
A lot of people don't seem to get them at first and then they end up loving it. For me, it was SORT OF, the other way around. At one point I loved them and now, although I still like them a lot and go back to them occasionally, they are not among my top bands anymore. It seems that once the weirdness and novelty factor wear off they don't appeal quite at the same level. 

Nonetheless, an essential listen for prog fans. 
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2024 at 07:30
While I respect and appreciate what Magma do, it has never "rung my bell" if you know what I mean... 

But I keep trying and actually really enjoyed Zess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2024 at 12:32
Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

...
It seems that once the weirdness and novelty factor wear off they don't appeal quite at the same level. 

Nonetheless, an essential listen for prog fans. 

Hi,

Kinda strange to read this for me. Going back 50 years to the late 60's and early 70's I can't say that I looked to the new stuff I was listening to for its weirdness and novelty at all. White Rabbit was not weird. The End, and LA Woman was not weird. Tiny Tim was not weird ... just funny! They were REAL in my heart and the expression was incredible. Magma ended up doing the same thing, and you won't know it or feel it until you see them live!

Being well rounded and having heard a lot of classical music by the time I was 20 (all the way to Britten, Orff and the Electronic Classical Composers), one of the things I was very aware of was that things changed every so often and a new "interpretation" appeared and things like The Nice, helped me understand and believe that. Having seen a myriad of classical folks on campus, hearing The Nice, and then ELP changed it all to something for folks my own age, that wanted to stretch the boundaries of the music, and I don't think that anyone ever thought simply about being strange and weird ... maybe Faust ... or one or two others, but in the end, the seriousness and ability they afforded their work, made the difference.

My thoughts are, that things like MAGMA (... today!!!) are too far different from the conventional stuff that is listed everywhere as the "progressive" examples, many of which are personal favorites and have what I would consider/think a bit too much of the popular sound ... to make sure you can "get it" right away ... but that also suggests that there is music out there that DOES NOT do that at all ... and the casual listeners for the pop/rock stuff, will likely have a real hard time with MAGMA, just like a lot of folks way back when also had it with Gentle Giant ... it was too weird ... translated as ... radio will never play it, and it will never be a hit! Guess what ... they were wrong and in LA GG got massive airplay, and on top of it, things sold!

This brings up the question ... what do you look for in music ... and when it looks like you find something that doesn't agree with you ... did you wonder why that was? Did it illuminate the wrong closets in your head? Or was there another personal reason for not liking it.

In the end, Magma or not, this is all another example of the human spirit speaking ... and not understanding it is one thing, but disliking it is another ... I don't think I ever found music I disliked ... maybe some things that go above and beyond the matters of good taste, but all in all ... music, is one of the most important parts of our lives. Not accepting some of it, would suggest that there are things we are hiding from ... I think!


Edited by moshkito - May 08 2024 at 12:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2024 at 15:42
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

take away the made-up language and the choral elements and it's just a jammy funky fusion

Add them, and it's not. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2024 at 11:02
I appreciate Magma's highly unique and innovative approach. Of course, we're mostly addressing Christian Vander for putting the heart, mind, soul, and direction for the band. But he's always found ready and willing participants to help him create that world.

If people can listen and appreciate all the weirdness, then they prove themselves as proggers. Most others just won't get it. Personally, I've put together one really good CD of their music as a compilation. So I don't think they have an extensively great music catalog, but that's just me. But their music is clearly not like any other.

It's fun to mess with people sometimes, whether at home or on the street. Crank up some Magma, and watch the expressions! WTH? Pure fun. People really need a dose of that a times. In this post-COVID world especially.


Edited by Boojieboy - May 22 2024 at 11:04
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