Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
acheron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 148
|
Topic: BlacK Sabbath Posted: October 06 2005 at 20:53 |
I made a similar post about Led Zeppelin not too long ago, however I think sabbath is truly a prog. band whether they knew it or not
the satanic/black magic theme runs through a lot of albums/songs
many songs flow together from the first album, which has a very prog. intro with the thunder, rain and churchbell.
"what is this that stands before me?
Figure in black that points at me" - so scary
they have many instrumental songs on all albums
songs are divided into different parts containing instrumental sections/jams
the more I look at all their albums the more prog they seem
and they wrote a song called 'the wizard' --so prog
|
|
yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 421
|
Posted: October 06 2005 at 21:02 |
When in doubt, go with what you see on paper. If Sabbath's music was transcribed, would you consider it progressive rock? I don't know how you could. Most of the characteristics you mention are superficial and concern trends popular in the '70s in general, rather than distinguishing traits of progressive rock. What this means to me is that Sabbath and some progressive rock were tapping into ideas and trends in popular music that were the natural results of post-'60s music.
|
|
GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
|
Posted: October 07 2005 at 01:11 |
Sab's later Ozzy-era albums (Sabotage, Technical Ecstasy, Never Say
Die, etc...) were definitely the beginnings of prog-metal.
I dont know if they can be considered prog on their own merit, but they
are most definitely progressive and influential to prog music.
HOWEVER, I must point out that while there is a definite "satanic"
theme that runs throughout Black Sabbath songs, I cringe everytime
someone tries to tell me they are a satanic band, or were in any way
promoting satanism or evil deeds. one only needs to look at the
lyrics to know that all references to Satan and the occult were
warnings against them. read the lyrics of songs like "After
Forever", "into the Void", "Electric Funeral", and even the early
"Black Sabbath". It's cool that they use imagery like that,
but do not confuse it with promoting satanism.
|
|
|
acheron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 148
|
Posted: October 12 2005 at 19:23 |
oh i know they never worship satan or promote that kind of thing in any way, in fact they warn against it
they manage to paint this dark evil picture with their music that influences so many prog. metal bands
Sabotage is my favorite album, everyone should own that one, great riffs, ozzy's voice peals paint off walls, and there's some unexpected suprises on the album too (Don't start(too late), the outro to 'symptom of the universe' etc. etc)
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 08:32 |
I would say they were THE heavy metal band! There was some prog elements to their music, but you could probably argue that for most heavy metal bands that emerged in the 70's.
I've always liked them, and I think Sabotage is their best album overall. The albums they made with Ronnie Dio were also very good, although I couldn't get on with Dio's solo stuff. Too much dragon nonesense I think..
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 09:49 |
Well during some songs I've thought "wow this is pretty proggy" but only now and then. Sabbath is one of the greatest bands ever, but not quite prog.
|
|
Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 10:20 |
Great... AddSabath... Then Add some more hard rock.. BUT leave the prog influnced & porg related heavy metal out!!!!! Don't let Maiden in here!!!!
This is gettin really amazing...
|
|
|
Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 10:22 |
^ Calm down mate .
|
|
Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 11:01 |
I just feel sooooo unfair..
I still don't understand what are Purple doing here?
|
|
|
krusty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1777
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 11:41 |
I think Sabbath were a really good rock 'n' roll band. As Led Zep & Purple were...
|
|
|
The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 13:51 |
I like Sabbath. Put does that I want them to be added? No. Wakeman did contribute to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and thats the most progressive theyve ever been. Just because you like a band dosn't mean you have to add it. Please specify why they are progressive. How are do satanic/black magic themes make a band progressive? How were they musically progressive? Thats not enough reason for a band to be added to our precious archive.
|
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: October 14 2005 at 14:54 |
Sabbath were undoubtedly progressive in approach - but quickly settled into a style. Like Led Zeppelin, the style was progressive within itself - but that's not really enough for prog rock.
If you count the prog "elements" within any given song, they tend to be few in number, and exceptions rather than the rule, and no one album is entirely progressive or even conceptual in nature, although they all have a great flow to them and some fairly diverse styles.
It has to be remembered that there were a lot of blues bands that were considered progressive at that time (witnessed by the number of "Progressive Blues" compilations from that time), and the variety in style was pretty much expected.
Some of the riffing (a non-progressive and pretty much hard rock specific technique in itself) is easily traceable back to the other heavy blues bands of the time - what was progressive about the Sabs mainly was in the heavy metal genre they were helping (unknowingly) to spawn - or disseminate, depending on your viewpoint about bands like Blue Cheer, and later High Tide, May Blitz, etc.
The roots of Sabbath's music are very clearly heard on Spooky Tooth's "Spooky Two", notably the track "Evil Woman" (not the Sabbath version, in fact I think BS used the exact riff on "Master of Reality", but I can't remember which track).
"Heaven and Hell", OTOH clearly (to my ears) contains some of the roots of prog metal, especially in terms of the production - that album is a landmark in metal, as you can clearly detect a difference in just about every metal band afterwards.
I'm not even sure that BS would make prog-related though.
That's what I think, anyway...
|
|
salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
|
Posted: October 15 2005 at 16:39 |
Yeah I think it was 'Sweet Leaf' that had the same riff as 'Evil Woman', Cert. Was playing 'Spooky Two' earlier and STILL think Spooky Tooth should be here...
An album always cited as being the birth of this sort of heavy rock is Jeff Beck's 'Truth'- I was playing it recently, and I see the point- certainly, Jeff Beck's guitar techniques here were as revolutionary as Hendrix's work was. I think Jeff Beck remains somewhat upset that Led Zeppelin did 'You Shook Me' as Beck himself had done a similar arrangement of it. To me though, Zeppelin's debut is a more coherent and well rounded album than 'Truth' is.
The problem for me in adding these bands like Sabbath and Zeppelin is the categorisation; I hardly think the underhand term of 'prog related' does their music justice to be honest. I had no problem with Deep Purple or Uriah Heep being here, as similar bands like Atomic Rooster, Lucifer's Friend, Quatermass, Warhorse, Captain Beyond and Still Life are here without much protest yet Heep and DP predated and influenced these acts. However, with Zep and Sabbath, whilst I wouldn't be outright against their inclusion, I would find it a little harder to justify it.
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.