Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Prog Folk / Folk Rock / Folk
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Prog Folk / Folk Rock / Folk

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog Folk / Folk Rock / Folk
    Posted: March 07 2021 at 11:46
Hi Folks (no pun intended) :)

I can't believe it's been almost 6 months since last posted.  Work has been just too busy and looks like its going to be another long year.  But, that hasn't really stopped me from listening to music whenever I am able.

Also, embarrassing to me is I come to visit these great archives and posts a lot to read and check on an artist, but I have never really entered any ratings.  But then again I hate to guess from memory and prefer to do things systematically.

Lately I have been in a folksy mood and this morning I thought why not take a plunge and use the tools here to rate the albums that I listen to systematically as I get around to listen to them.

Since I am currently into Steeleye Span and enjoying their great musical voices and music, I thought I would start with them and as a result I copied all their tracks from my collection into a spreadsheet.  Planning to rate each song as I listen to it with a maximum score of 10 points as seen below:



Then after adding the total and dividing by the number of songs on the album and dividing by two, I get this comparison of listening enjoyment which I can compare to the Prog Archives ratings:



Not surprising since my rating is based on my listening enjoyment of the songs inside these studio albums my rating turns out to be consistently higher.  But, I can also see the lower average ratings provided by raters if the criteria is based on song progginess.

For me though Steeleye Span over the years have been very consistent and good at what they do, therefore not surprisingly as a result their first 10 albums that they made in 70s have a strong average rating of 4.46 out 5.  So they are setting a high bar for other artists to follow.

I hope to finish all of Steeleye Span before i move onto someone else.  Their work spans 50 years of prog folk rock music.

I am curious to hear how you approach your ratings.

Best regards

Nick
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2021 at 14:30
I'm not sure about the ranking but I own Hark , Please, Below The Salt, Parcel, Now We Are 6, and Rocket Cottage. I like them all about the same....never tried to rank them.
I also have a 2lp Steeleye Span Story.....compilation which is not listed on PA here.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2021 at 15:24
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I'm not sure about the ranking but I own Hark , Please, Below The Salt, Parcel, Now We Are 6, and Rocket Cottage. I like them all about the same....never tried to rank them.
I also have a 2lp Steeleye Span Story.....compilation which is not listed on PA here.

I know it's hard to rank them, as you can really pick any of them up when you are in the mood and just enjoy them.  It's partly why I am trying to see how it works out doing it by song.  The live cd's are really good too, hard to separate, each one is just that little bit different.
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2021 at 16:19
Here is my rating for the next 5 studio albums made in the next twenty years between 1980 and 1999:



Time and  also Tempted and Tried are two really good albums, which really saved a drop off over the next 20 years.  The Time album is almost perfect with every song being really good.  As a result the average rating over 15 albums remains at 4.46 out 5.00.

Best regards

Nick
Back to Top
kenethlevine View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog-Folk Team

Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 8955
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2021 at 17:20
Two points I wanted to bring up:

1)  Ratings alone are not of great interest to me.  I want to know more about why you like a song or why it doesn't impress you.
2)  It looks like you rate an album based on the sum of the individual song ratings.  In other words, the album is just a collection of songs, so average out their ratings and you have an album rating.  It doesn't leave any space for considering the album as more than the sum of its parts.  For me, there are albums I might 5 stars where I wouldn't rate a single track on it as 5 stars, and other albums that, by average song rating, would do pretty well but which fall shorter as a unit.  

ps I love "Tempted and Tried" too.  Have you seen the excellent DVD "A Twentieth Anniversary Celebration" that features that album quite heavily?


Edited by kenethlevine - March 07 2021 at 17:21
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2021 at 18:46
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Two points I wanted to bring up:

1)  Ratings alone are not of great interest to me.  I want to know more about why you like a song or why it doesn't impress you.
2)  It looks like you rate an album based on the sum of the individual song ratings.  In other words, the album is just a collection of songs, so average out their ratings and you have an album rating.  It doesn't leave any space for considering the album as more than the sum of its parts.  For me, there are albums I might 5 stars where I wouldn't rate a single track on it as 5 stars, and other albums that, by average song rating, would do pretty well but which fall shorter as a unit.  

ps I love "Tempted and Tried" too.  Have you seen the excellent DVD "A Twentieth Anniversary Celebration" that features that album quite heavily?

Yes in fact don't ask me why but I have 3 copies of this DVD.  Might have to sell a couple someday.  One as the Classic Rock Legends version as shown here in the Steeleye Span section.  The second one I bought not paying attention to the back of the cover when I bought A 20th Century Celebration and the third copy which is included with the Special Edition CD/DVD 2 disc set.  This one I bought because I liked the DVD so much that I wanted a CD copy of it as well.  This DVD I did score down to a 4 though because as good as it is, I think it is too short at 52 minutes and inevitably you lose another 6 or so minutes by having the inevitable All Around My Hat and Gaudete in almost every Steeleye Span live set.

OK everyone is another 15 years older, but I do think the 35th Anniversary DVD is better, I especially liked the song Tam Lin which to me alone was worth the price of buying the 35th.

You are right, I am just showing the results of rating the songs and averaging out as I had explained in the first post.  But heck it could take me weeks to write about each album!  Tongue

Generally speaking though I like Steeleye Span when they get into their folk songs and pre 20th century stories or fantasies about elves and queen's and kings, butchers, miners, witches, maidens, soldiers, sailors etc.  Their voices are great singularly and in chorus and I wish Maddy Prior would have met and married me so she could sing to me all day! 

Their sound is so precise and I like their music because it is a pleasant change to listen to a band where no one really ever takes over with long drawn out virtuoso solos other than the occasional violin which when it happens is hauntingly beautiful.  Yet you can clearly hear the individual skills of each musician on pretty much each song, the unobtrusive guitar play, base, drums, violin and of course great voice(s)

From time to time they do lose me when they break up what they are good at and throw in a song that does not exactly seem to fit ie.. a little too pop orientated or too much irish jig or some track #10 filler.  Not that any of them are really ever really bad, but just perhaps a little out of place.  But fortunately most of the time they bounce right back with the next beautiful folky rocky proggy song.

As a result some songs I score less because they don't quite fit the Steeleye Span flow that I enjoy listening to.

Best regards

Nick


Edited by Spaciousmind - March 07 2021 at 18:52
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17546
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2021 at 20:59
Hi,

My take, and I have been in the message boards on progressive music for 30 years now, the main story is different ... the "fans" decided that the "top 5" were sacred and the rest profane ... and of course, something like FOLK music which has a massive history of being against the "establishment" or "established ideas" ... is not going to be appreciated by the "top 5" prog dogs ... because it is not electric, and it is not loud, and it doesn't show the music as valid and important, because MTV did not think it was "exciting", or "with it" or worse ... having something to say, instead of NOTHING to say!

I have the same issue with THE INCREDIBLE STRONG BAND, and after that Robin Williamson's solo albums, that are fantastic, many of the songs are pure poetry ... but rock fans hate poetry ... it's too stuck up and smells like Bob!

The FOLK scene (any type) is one of the most diverse forms there is ... and that might just be one of the issues ... someone I knew said ... what's a harp doing in this rock music (about Alan Stivell) ... meaning that he was not listening anyway!

I've given up these wars ... since folks that only write about JT, ELP, YES, GENESIS and KANSAS (usually) have not heard enough Steeleye Span, or The Incredible String Band ... to even consider appreciating the music ... it's OK ... I wouldn't want them in this bandwagon going down the road with a guitar and singing away anything that wasn't the _____________________ blues (for example)!

I'll take a Roy Harper and these two ... any day ... there aren't enough words in the dictionary and in my mind to describe the beauty in them!


Edited by moshkito - March 08 2021 at 12:37
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 16:10
These are the Studio Albums of Steeleye Span between the Years 2000 to 2010 that I tried to order to my listening enjoyment after listening to them in order of release date.



Seems strange since Maddy Prior was not around for Bedlam Boys but I did enjoy it the most from this decade. Hard to put a finger on it but to me this album seemed to be more creative and I felt that all the band members seemed to be stepping up in their musicianship.  Gay Woods may not be Maddy Prior but complements well in this album and is a good singer in her own rights.  As a result better than Horkstow Grange, the previous album without Maddy.

Present, not listed in the archives is the 17th studio album which really is a best off collection with songs chosen by Steeleye fans who apparently voted which songs the band should rewrite with the current band members in a studio.  Most of the songs of this double cd are different enough sounding to the original songs to allow me to enjoy this album on its own merit and to not consider it a compilation.  Maddy is back for Present.

They Called Her Babylon, is another good album but it felt just a little more poppy when compared to Bedlam Born.  Bloody Men I rated on par with Babylon mainly because of the extra cd which had Nedd Ludd which is a 15 minute concept story that I enjoyed a lot and different to the usual Steeleye standalone songs.  Without Nedd Ludd I would say Babylon would probably be ahead of Bloody Men.

Winter is a Christmas Festivities album and therefore I am forced to stand back and rate it for what it is, something that I would listen to only around Christmas time while the better half is preparing dinner as background music.  But having said that, I do think it is as good as The Jethro Tull Christmas Album or Moody Blues December.  Therefore the rating fits as the songs and the sound is exactly as expected from Steeleye Span.

To end the decade Cogs, Wheels And Lovers while still a good album it just felt not as strong as the others in this decade.

I have to say though overall Steeleye Span albums over this decade seem to me the best decade so far.

PS based on my enjoyment rating I also decided to convert the Albums to a US School System grade resulting in an A for the decade body of studio album work.  Wink

Nick



Edited by Spaciousmind - March 20 2021 at 16:17
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 04:33
^ talking of last 10 years, Dirty Rotten b*****ds is a constant fixture on my I-pod. Brilliant album imo.
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 06:32
Here is the last decade of Steeleye Span studio albums.


Wintersmith was released in 2013, what I am rating however is the 2 cd Wintersmith Extended version which has an additional 4 studio tracks on disc 2 plus 8 live and a couple of demo.  It is a concept album based the book Wintersmith from Terry Pratchett and his Discworld fantasy world.  it seems that Terry Pratchett has been a big fan Steeleye Span since their beginnings.  It seems a fitting collaboration with Terry credited for the lyrics on all the songs ensuring these capture the Wintersmith atmosphere of the novel.

Since the concept of a concept album is different to what Steeleye normally does with the exception of the 15 minute mini concept Ned Ludd, I had to listen a few times before deciding that I liked this album a lot.   It is a little heavier than previous Steeleye Span but you can tell over the years that slowly they have been building up to that as you progress through their albums, especially with the previous decade albums.  Where as in the past the guitar not only tries to match and complement the violin, but now also has the occasional short solos that all fit and sound great.  Sadly this is also the last album on which Peter Knight plays the violin.

Anyway Wintersmith was a great start for the 2010s but the next album Dodgy b*****ds is even better. Gawd I hate Rap but even the couple of songs where they Rap the lyrics are good so there is nothing negative I can say about this album.  Jessica May Smart violin play is good and her singing just adds more pleasure.  Every track is really very enjoyable.  This album Rocks and it Folks for a whole 72 minutes.  On another sad note, this seems to be also the last album for Rick Kemp the bass player who had joined Steeleye Span back in 1972 on Below The Salt.  You can loosely say that Dodgy b*****ds is another concept album with all the songs and lyrics written around the works of the 19th Century American folklorist Francis James Child.  Steeleye Span lyrics have always been on the dark side of pre 20th Century folklore and this album digs even deeper into the darkness of those times.

Steeleye Span's last studio album leaves Maddy Prior as the sole survivor of the original 1970 line up.  Yet surprisingly this album seems to me to go back to their early 70's beginnings sound.   It is a really good album but its hard to top the previous two of this decade and as a result I rate it slightly less.  This album sees Ian Anderson playing flute on track 2 which is an added bonus for this album.  I suspect like me Ian Anderson also fancies Maddy's singing as he keep coming back for more Tongue

In summary this last decade is in my opinion Steeleye Span best period of work which is so hard to say really since everything they have ever done has been great.  But just like a good Cognac, Steeleye Span has just gotten better and better at what they do and what they like to do, which is to make good Prog Folk Rock music and be consistent with it.  They just stick to their formula and keep improving on it.

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ talking of last 10 years, Dirty Rotten b*****ds is a constant fixture on my I-pod. Brilliant album imo.

Richard, as you can see I see it the same as you as their best studio work together with the Time album.

Nick






Edited by Spaciousmind - March 21 2021 at 06:40
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 07:39
Below are the Steeleye Span Live Albums/CDs that I have:



In my opinion all great bands should be even better live.  This is a fact with Steeleye Span, they have absolutely no problems taking their music on the road and play it as in the studio and even better because of the live atmosphere.  All their live albums are really good but I do find the double cd plus it's bonus DVD Live At A Distance and The Journey exceptional and closely followed by Now We Are Six Again.  You can however play all nine of the above live albums/cds at any time and enjoy them all.

As for Live DVD's here is my list:



All their Live DVDs are also great!  But the two that really stand out are The 35th Anniversary World Tour and The Wintersmith Tour.   When you watch them live you can really see how much the band members appreciate each other and complement each other musically.  You can see it in their eyes and you can feel it.  The Wintersmith Tour has songs from their 50 year repertoire blended in seamlessly into the Wintersmith album songs that were played.  A nice touch is Terry Pratchett joining them on stage at the end and of course this is last time that might see Peter Knight and Rick Kemp on stage with Steeleye.  All this together with a great selection of songs just slightly puts Wintersmith Tour ahead of the also fantastic 35th Tour DVD.

Lastly to end with Steeleye Span here is my final list by order my liking of their body of work excluding compilations:



For their complete body of work I do rate Steeleye Span very highly at 92.2% (A-)  Which is a very high bar set for others to follow.  50 Years of consistency is going to be hard to beat.  Or is it?  Smile

I really enjoyed doing this and I think I might do it again.

Nick
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.207 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.