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yam yam 
Special Collaborator 
Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062 |
 Topic: Talfast (Canada): Prog Electronic...maybe?Posted: September 16 2012 at 06:06 |
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This suggestion is a direct offshoot from Svetonio's recent suggestion for Opossaum (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=89609).
Talfast is a duo consisting of two members of Opossaum (Robert Auclair and Antoine Létourneau-Berger), who were determined to explore deeper electronic music. Both using a controller keyboard and a laptop, they began playing together to experiment the possibilities of their tools. A few months later, Talfast’s musical esthetic was born. Their music is inventive, complex, motley, full of rich melodies, atmospheres, colored harmonies and trash-funky-distorted rhythms. The duo can’t be classified into one single genre, because of their sound diversity that justifies the willingness to follow their constantly-changing musical mood. Talfast is somewhere between video games, ninjas, galaxies and Igor Stravinsky. Their electro influences include certainly Ratatat, Nine Inch Nails, Bonobo, The Glitch Mob, Murcof, Pantha du Prince, Akido, Amon Tobin, etc. Their album 'La machination' was released on 15th April 2011 Talfast is on bandcamp here: http://talfast.bandcamp.com/album/la-machination (name your price download) - there is quite a contrast between some of the tracks - for instance track 6, 'Labyrynthe' is purely an electronic piano piece, but although Prog Electronic is not a sub genre I understand very well, I definitely think there is going to be more than enough that is relevant in this album to merit evaluation of the duo for inclusion that sub. They are also on myspace: http://www.myspace.com/talfast, and facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Talfast/140677402618665 This is pretty good stuff in my book!
 Edited by yam yam - September 16 2012 at 07:10 |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13795 |
Posted: September 16 2012 at 14:18 |
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I quite like it, but I hear electronica here, not Prog electronic.
It's a no from me, but, as ever, more than happy to accept David (especially as an expert in this field) and Andy if they feel differently.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Sheavy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 28 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 2866 |
Posted: September 16 2012 at 21:43 |
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Yeah, all those bands you mentioned that had influenced them aren't under PA (cept for NIN, but he is under Crossover). IDM is a big no no in Prog Electronic. I hope that changes in the future, but for now it's a no go.
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yam yam
Special Collaborator
Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 04:35 |
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Okay, so we've established that this doesn't fit PA's definition of Prog Electronic...so is that it for this band? - Straight in the dustbin? - Or are there other options that can be pursued? (Crossover or Eclectic are the only ones I can think of though, and I have strong doubts that it would get voted into either of those tbh). It seems such a shame to me that this music, which is going to be 1000% more listenable to the average listener than a lot of the monotonous ambient/experimental/drone type of stuff that DOES get passed for the P.E. sub, seems destined for immediate obscurity as far as PA is concerned.
Eclectic is all-too-often used as a dumping ground for stuff which is considered by most to be almost certainly prog of some form or other, but which is deemed not to fit any of the existing sub genres - & they are backed up at the moment. I know this has been said many times before, but I really do feel we need an 'unassigned prog' category (or similar) creating for stuff which doesn't readily seem to slot in anywhere else...if only to take some of the workload off Eclectic.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13795 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 06:26 |
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The reason I didn't forward is because I don't believe that this band fits here as a prog outfit, not just Prog electronic.
However, as I've said a number of times before, should David or Andy disagree with me, and want to send for eval, then no problem.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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yam yam
Special Collaborator
Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 07:59 |
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Prog is a very difficult thing to define. One person's interpretation of it can be very widely different to another's. My own understanding of the term is probably compromised to a considerable extent by the fact that I enjoy so much music that is quite obviously not prog, and I sometimes have trouble establishing where the boundary lies. With this in mind, and the fact that a few comments made on here in the last couple of days give me a niggling impression that not everyone is entirely at ease with my 'unofficial' contributions in this forum, I have decided to cease posting in both the 'Suggest New Bands' and 'Unsigned Bands' forums as of now.
It's a case of not dabbling in things you don't fully understand, I guess. I have always tried to do what I thought was best to facilitate the process of getting some of these new bands added, but I really don't have sufficient experience and knowledge of prog to do this to the standards necessary for this site. Andy now has at least three other well-qualified guys regularly monitoring these threads with him, whereas in the old days it was mainly just himself (and Alex before that), and I felt I did have a reasonably valid role to play back then (if only for digging out samples and info  ).I enjoyed what I did, and was happy to continue doing it as long as everyone was happy with my amateurish dabblings, but I get the feeling this is no longer the case. Change happens, and it is usually for the best: the New Bands forum is now being well looked after by a number of highly respected collabs, so I guess the time has now come for me to keep out of the way and leave matters on here to the guys who actually know what they are doing.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13795 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 08:19 |
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I for one would rather that you did not carry out this action. Your input to this site is extremely valued.
We all have opinions. Yours are no more or less important than mine. In this particular case, I did not feel that it warranted a referral to the team (s) in question. However, we work as a team, and I made it clear that David or Andy should also look at the matter (where it is clear cut, then this is not required. This one, clearly, is not clear cut). I would actually you rather took up one of the many offers that you have had to become a formal collaborator on the site. Your reasons for refusing are, of course, your own, but you clearly have a wealth of knowledge, and an uncanny knack of finding out info about some pretty obscure acts. please reconsider. The site would be less of a resource if you stopped doing this work.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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DamoXt7942
Special Collaborator
Joined: October 15 2008 Location: Okayama, Japan Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 08:40 |
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^ Now I'm checking and ... sorry David, seconded with Steve. Not fit for Prog Electronic IMHO, good stuffs indeed nonetheless.
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yam yam
Special Collaborator
Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 09:09 |
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^^ Thanks for this message
of reassurance Steve, but I could never become a formal collaborator
for the very reasons given in my last post. I don't have sufficient
in-depth understanding of what prog actually is, never mind sorting
out all the sub genres that we have created for it. True, a number of
people have suggested in the past that I could become a collaborator
on here, but because of my lack of confidence in my knowledge I would
probably never be able to say an outright 'no' to a single suggestion
I looked at, simply because I fully understand the possible
far-reaching impact that a wrong decision could have for a new band
trying to make it in the prog world. I would almost certainly 'play
safe' every time irrespective of my own gut feeling, and forward
virtually everything I was faced with on to one of the teams for
evaluation...thereby instantly 'passing the buck', and making my own
role virtually irrelevant (I do express doubts about artists
which I feel don't belong here as things stand in my unofficial
capacity, because I know it doesn't matter if I'm wrong...someone
else will always make the actual decision). The last 12 months have
been a matter of trying to 'learn the ropes' by assisting as I have
done from outside the cz, in the hope that I might eventually get the
hang of it sufficiently to step up a grade. Sadly it hasn't happened,
and despite listening to and thoroughly enjoying this sort of music
ever since it existed (I am now 57), I am no nearer to actually
understanding it now than I was when I was a kid of 15! There is a well-known saying 'too many cooks spoil
the broth', and having even more collabs in the New Bands team would
be counter productive anyway imho – it would only increase the
likelihood of inconsistency in the way the suggestions are handled. You guys are doing a
fine job as you are - my comments in the forum are only confusing the
issue unnecessarily, and having given the matter considerable thought
again, I really do believe my own opinions are are best kept to
myself. |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 10:37 |
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I think you sell yourself short David. I have been around this place for quite some time now, and I am still pretty unsure of what truly constitutes "prog" - and speaking from a personal viewpoint, I think it's something that continues to develop with the ever-expanding musical genres. It is never stagnant. Prog rock in itself might've become something of a genre in itself, moved away from what it really started out as, ie truly progressive and boundary pushing, but progressive music is always on the move, which should lie in the wording itself methinks.
For what its worth, I find a lot of the electronica and IDM artists highly progressive, far more than a lot of the acts that get included onto our site, but the way PA is set up around the prog rock of the 70s as it is at the moment, there will be a huge amount of progressive artists that will never have the chance of getting in, but that's one of the parameters we're dealing with here. Or else we could just call it progressive music archives  I think free jazz and goa electronics are highly progressive as well, but they just don't seem to fit in here. As for the band at hand, I agree with both Steve and Keishiro - as much as I like it. Progressive: yes. PA material: sadly no. Prog electronic is a hard thing to figure out too, I'll give you that. Some of the most progressive electronic artists at the moment have little or no chance of getting in. That is because the "genre" came into fruition by way of the early Krautrock scene and what some trailblazing experimental musicians were doing with synthesisers at the time. The scene was integral to the Krautrock one, and a lot of the musicians back then stretched their legs in both of these venues - mostly because there wasn't any boxes available, just far out sh*t! PE revolves around the abstract and trippy universe - one that only slightly spilled over in what many have dubbed ambient music or drone. Still only slightly though We at the PE team have opened up the door to some of these acts, because we thought they were crucial in the development/ and the lineage of PE as it is described here at PA.... But again this is a very small part of the big picture.The music that stands a chance of getting into PE, is something you can trace back to this development(The German link that is), as unfair as that sounds. As many have noticed, there tends to be a lack of rock in the electronics found on this site, and one of the biggest reasons for including it at all must be that connection. A connection to a very important period in the making of German experimental music, which is why most of the stuff we feature here is related to the Berlin school of electronics. Or else we'd have to include a small ocean of electronic artists spanning from IDM and glitch to Goa, Industrial and trance. We do have a few artists that are neither Berlin school nor anything of the above, but mostly avantguarde artists, but they do feature rock in their palette. (I know this came off rather disjointed and rambling, but if you want a better explanation, I think it's best to read the front page of PE.) Now, having gotten that out of the way  I strongly echo Steve's sentiments. You are an invaluable asset to this site David, and I wish you could see that. Just yesterday we had people in the collab zone asking why you hadn't received a promotion and a proper title yet. This is because you have an impeccable knack for finding information about even the most obscure bands - yes that is a part of it, but also because you most of the time are right about what tag to throw around any given band. I am not strong in all of the categories featured here on PA - not by any stretch of the imagination. If that is the case, I confer with my colleagues and we move along. BUT we do make mistakes and send bands to the wrong teams. Nothing is bulletproof around these partsWhat I am trying to convey here, is that you are far better at this than you think you are, and people have come to respect and love your contributions in this part of the forum, and for damn good reasons too, I might add! My only gripe with all of this, is the fact that you don't seem to think so yourself. I hope you reconsider, no titles involved, but just keep posting here, because you are a wonderful guy to have around here(I really have no agenda here David, I promise you - I just genuinely mean what I say. I hope you understand).
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17298 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 11:43 |
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Yam, I don't do this thread near as often as the others as I work in RPI, but sometimes I help out here....and I just want to say that I find your comments and instincts helpful and positive, regardless of what genre teams ultimately decide. Thanks for your help!! |
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 12:48 |
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We are all amateur enthusiasts here, no one is an expert in anything. Some of us chose to specialise in specific areas and we become knowledgeable in that, but we can never know everything there is to know, there will always be something we don't know, a band we've not noticed or a variation in style we've not heard before. The older we are the more we've seen and the more we've experienced and that counts for something but it doesn't make us infallible or always right, it just adds a bit of gravitas to our words and a bit if credence to our opinions.
What we work on here is consensus, we cannot conduct a census of every band by every member so we have to rely on the consensus of a selected few individuals who have accumulated some knowledge in their chosen area of amateur enthusiasm - some of them trust their own ears and their own judgement while others take into account the opinions of others, and that's how it should be because collectively their consensus gives us a fair and reasonable outcome.
We all recognise a fellow amateur enthusiast when we see one, we would not ask them to join us if we felt they could not do what we do. If they don't feel they have sufficient in-depth understanding then that is fair and reasonable, any of us who claims to know or have that is kidding no one but themselves. However, no one should be pressured to do anything they don't want to do, or don't feel comfortable doing.
I'd like to thank David for the considerable effort he has put into suggesting bands to us and for the comments he has offered on other people's suggestions, we do appreciate that level of commitment because we do recognise the time and energy that takes. So I would like to suggest to him that he looks back on all the great bands that he has helped secure a place in the PA and not dwell on those that didn't make it.
Thanks David, I wish you well on whatever you do next with your energy and enthusiasm.
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What?
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 14:11 |
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Very nicely put Dean.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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yam yam
Special Collaborator
Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 16:16 |
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Thanks for the kind words and well-wishes guys. I'm not actually deserting you totally - I doubt that I could exist without my daily dose of progarchives
I'm just going to be taking very much more of a back seat than of late, and letting you fellows with a far better understanding of this marvellous thing we call prog (and the way things work around here) than I will ever have, go about your business unhindered. I will still check both the New and Unsigned Bands forums pretty well every day for new bands to discover and enjoy, & maybe drop in and add something to a thread if it seems it really needs it (as a kind of last resort, I suppose), but only ever factual information or audio samples - no more attempts at deciding if a suggested band or artist is prog or not, or even worse, what sub genre they might belong to. There are just so many folks on hand there who are far better at that than me. Similarly with suggestions - if I discover a band or artist who are not on there & that seem to be an absolute cut-and-dried case, then of course I will still post them for the benefit of the site and all its users, but no more of the 'borderline' acts that I have suggested just lately, that all too often fail to make it. OK - I hope that's cleared things up. Thanks again for all the kind words and well-wishes...I hope I will still feel able to pop in & contribute something worthwhile to the site now and again when circumstances call for it...and now...
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13795 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 16:19 |
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^ Sod back to topic
Thanks David. You should really be aware of just how much you are liked and admired around here, and this post just goes to confirm my feelings. Don't you dare go away. The West Mids just might suffer another Welsh invasion if you do.........................
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 16:36 |
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If I can also interrupt the "back on topic" for a while longer... I'd like to re-emphasise something I touched on earlier, and that is the opinions of other people on specific suggestions. They are important and we should take all those opinions into consideration when evaluating a band or artist. Of course all team members should trust their own judgement when doing an evaluation, but they should also trust the judgement of other people too so when there is a borderline case there is good reason to listen to what everyone else thinks. I'm not talking about compromise here, but actually listening to alternative opinions which add to the collective pool of opinion about a band or artist.
There is nothing wrong in asking for an opinion from someone outside the team - we simply do not know everything and we cannot have a full understating of any subgenre, even those we think we are expert in. (I'm not musing as a retired Admin here, but from experience as an ex-member of the Crossover Team).
So what I'm trying to say here David is continue to have opinions and continue to voice them because they matter.
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: June 04 2010 Location: Terria Status: Offline Points: 13298 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 16:53 |
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Oh my, many words have already been shared and I'm afraid I'm late for the party.
David, any decision you make is certainly your own call and you have your own reasons, but truly, I, personally, and I'm sure the others that helped me along the way as well as Steve and the other David, absolutely adore your work here. Even if you just provide information that I most definitely would not have found myself or if you provide an opinion, it's all appreciated and encouraged. Obviously we've talked at length on the subject of promotion and I know your reasons for that, but even if it means just posting an entire album of youtube samples (!) or adding some bio info on a few suggestions here and there, it would be so much better than seeing you leave altogether. On the subject of expertise in prog, if anyone were to call me an expert in anything, well frankly they would be wrong. I've been listening to this kind of music for hardly a fraction of most others here on the forum, and the fact that I've become well acquainted with a few genres here and have a grasp of most of the others in no way means I'm the definitive answer for every suggestion. I just hope you stick around, as I'll be very sad if you don't.
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Sheavy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 28 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 2866 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 18:31 |
I've failed far more than you have in trying to determine whats Prog and what isn't, and I'm still here churning out suggestions I think are Prog or Related, to the detriment and annoyance of some people. Don't quit trying to be helpful just cause of some mishaps, especially one such as confusing as the Prog Electronic label here on PA, which leads most people, (it did me) to think of Aphex Twin and Venetian Snares, as well as Kraftwerk, and TD and such. Theres always a chance with borderline acts (if they haven't been suggested before) to get an SC to sponsor them for Prog Related. Ive got quite a few of my previous 'big' suggestions, such as Billy Thorpe, Nurse With Wound, Melvins, and others on the backburner to bring 'em out in the future (again). And, rest assured, I will try my damn hardest to find one that agrees, and would be willing to sponsor them. Edited by Sheavy - September 17 2012 at 18:38 |
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yam yam
Special Collaborator
Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 18:36 |
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LOL!! - I've got to stick around for a while at least...'cos boy, have I got a suggestion for Prog Electronic - If THIS gets rejected then I'll eat my hat...WATCH THIS SPACE!!!
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Sheavy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 28 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 2866 |
Posted: September 17 2012 at 18:38 |
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Is it Tangram? ^
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Talfast (Canada): Prog Electronic...maybe?
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yam yam wrote: