The Language of Art and Music: |
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ICDPress
Forum Newbie Joined: January 14 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Topic: The Language of Art and Music: Posted: January 14 2011 at 05:24 |
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Call for Applications
The Language of Art and Music: “An International Symposium on the Potential for Artistic Expression to Cross Cultural Barriers” (Berlin, 17th - 20th February 2011) ___ The Language of Art and Music: “An International Symposium on the Potential for Artistic Expression to Cross Cultural Barriers” (International Conference, Berlin, 17th - 20th February, 2011) www.icd-languageofartandmusic.org The use of culture and art to promote dialogue and understanding is a field that, though the subject of much scholarly attention, has had little impact on the behavior and activities of national governments and other stakeholders in international relations. Moreover, whilst there is a widespread agreement of the value of culture and art in raising awareness of cultural differences, there is less understanding of the potential for culture and art to offer a neutral platform for mutual cultural exchange, to transform cultural differences and unite people through emotions. "The Language of Art and Music" will work to bridge the gap between theory and practice by bringing together artists with academic experts from the field and key figures in international relations to discuss the importance of these artistic disciplines. Art as Cultural Diplomacy: A Forum for Young Leaders > (Berlin, 14-20 February, 2011) The ICD Academy for Cultural Diplomacy - February Session > (Berlin 17-23 February 2011) Contact: www.icd-languageofartandmusic.org |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 14 2011 at 07:46 | ||
I have to wonder if you leave the vocals or language out of music do you not have what amounts to a universal human language?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: January 28 2011 at 18:30 | ||
I just wanted to ask ... if music was an art ... or some kind of separate art?
Very strange ... very strange!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: January 28 2011 at 19:16 | ||
Hi,
Actually I think it goes in reverse. It has had a massive impact, and specially the Internet these days, and it is quite obvious when some countries are trying really hard to censor a lot of things seen through the internet because they do not wish their people to know it, or think that it might make folks think that their government is wrong, and the world right. In any autocratic society, where control, or religion, is the important factor a lot of arts are hidden and controlled and sometimes downright eliminated.
It has had a massive effect in many ways, and in our own lifetimes one can go back to the fall of the Iron Curtain, where the final act of inglorious "defeat" was ... a rock concert ... one of the things that the East had spent considerable time and money trying to prevent its broadcasting ... and it was always thought (by us westerners of course) that it was done to make sure that their people would not learn that there is a world out there that was different, and had more "freedoms" that they did not have ... like listening to the Beatles or Rolling Stones, two massive symbols of a freer and democratic society than the Eastern bloc countries. Radio Free Europe and Radio of America were massive in trying to simply blast the Eastern Bloc from every direction with it.
And we haven't gotten around to talking about the defections or artists and musicians, the most famous of which were ballett dancers ... a couple of which pretty much blew up modern dance into the eyes and ears of the world while also giving us a sublime touch and taste and sight of some amazing movement and quality of work that we had not seen before, only heard about! But no one that got a chance to see Nureyev and Fonteyn came out of it ... not liking it, or simply astounded by what they just saw!
But there were a lot of "cultural" things that were in Russia (for example) in those days that have almost totally stopped ... the film industry they had is no longer vibrant and exciting ... they have no money or support now and the whole thing is now a bunch of hand made films that ... don't make it in my book. For some reason, there is no "dream" any more, and nothing to fight for, and I think that has hurt the whole process.
I can not speak for music in the Eastern Bloc since the 80's. Poland was massive in the film and music departments, and a lot of it was even attributed to Lech Walesa and the big dream that happened in that country, and things like Kieslowski and his group gave us a side view that was quite nice and amazing, along with really good work ... but for the most part he was produced by European interests that knew they could make a few bob off the movies.
The potential is there. However, one might even use examples in America. I sit with a gentleman at work that routinely tells me that he is not interested in foreign anything ... and if he was he would go see it. And he almost says it because he doesn't like my world wide view, but he can be down right rude about it ... but he can intelectualize Dexter, the Trailblazers and his favorite Saint Louis Rams! ... he's not a bad guy, but it tells you where 90% of his attention span is, and he couldn't careless about the arts or any other crap.
There is no such thing as "cultural exchange" ... that is an academic exercise in Words! ... or an exchange of a Pizza for a Vatapa in a soccer game! ... there is more culture there than anything else ...
I have been into "foreign music" for 50 years -- basically music from all over the world, and even in a board like this that is something that is almost an impossible discussion ... because saying something about the music scene in the nordic's is almost like saying Neil Young sux, or Alabama sux ... it gets you nothing in the way of helping people learn and find out ... that there is something else out there. There are some, that are extremely well versed, but in general, the majority of the folks and what they post? ... take a look for yourself!
It has been doing so for hundreds of years ... and one of the biggest concerns and problems, is that these words are said to simply get commercial interests moving forward and sharing some profits in order to help make something work.
In the end, too much of this is NOT about the art, or the artist. It is about the profiteering and the commerce of it all ... and while there is a chance that China will be a great boom for a lot of music ... because the number of possible sales are staggering, it is naive for us to think that we can just simply go there, give them a hamburger and that we can walk out with a pound of gold like we did 500 years ago and pilfered half the world! And I don't think that many countries are going to have a chance to pilfer the world much anymore ... the population explosion is big enough to help prevent it.
In the end, your best place to discuss this is with radio and tv owners and commentators ... at the station in Santa Barbara where a lot of foreign music was played by my roomate and friend, a fellow at work said ... "You gotta be totally stupid to be playing some music sung in French in America" ... and Guy won't even get a thank you or a tip of the hat by folks in this place ... because it doesn't mean a thing to them ... they only know what they like ... and the cultural and experience level and factors behind it? ... totally ignored!
What else do you need to know, or don't you get? Too bad that you will read this and ignore it, and never mention it again! That's culture for you! But I doubt it, that you will find, anywhere else in the world ... such an extensive list of artists and people working on interviews and making really good attempts at making sure this is all visible ... and that makes PA the best! But you are not big enough ... and intelligent enough to make that connection at all! ... !!! Edited by moshkito - February 17 2011 at 20:12 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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kglenz
Forum Newbie Joined: November 28 2010 Location: Mpls, MN, USA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: March 18 2011 at 21:20 | ||
"The use of culture and art to promote dialogue and understanding is a field that, though the subject of much scholarly attention, has had little impact on the behavior and activities of national governments and other stakeholders in international relations." This is because politics is about money & influence and people WAY outside of where general populations are coming from and great art/artists cannot be bought & sold like a commodity - unless you already have an "American Idol" in place. "...there is less understanding of the potential for culture and art to offer a neutral platform for mutual cultural exchange..." I've seen a few documentaries that seem to perry this line. One on Heavy Metal in Islamic countries & rap music all throughout the middle eastern countries. They're just not looking to the right people but this "neutral platform" is there. It's just that it doesn't serve the interests of the correct political tide or corporate interest. Another interesting note is to think about the music industry as a whole. Why is it that the "mega-music-marts" only sell a fraction of what is out there and basically ignore the foreign music markets? In fact, if one wants to find what is "out there" in the world of music, one has to "self educate" and find it on their own because it is almost as if there are more barriers that only allow certain countries access to the market. The fact is - if "bridging the gap" in the arts were really about international interests then why is "profiteering & the commerce of it all" (well said!) what is obviously central to the industry vs. an integrity that caters to people & cultural diversity? The people don't trust the leadership in these instances because there are too many strings attached from invisible interests. They've learned from history what happened to countries that had a natural resource that some greedy corporation wanted & what is currently happening around the globe in sweat shops and to immigrants in the very richest places on earth let alone the shanty towns. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: March 22 2011 at 15:46 | ||
And sometimes worse ... than just decrese public awareness. The barbaric and viciousness with which some of this can happen is not a topic for this board.
But I don't have to tell you that my own father was a victim of a lot of persecution and it was one of the reasons why he left Portugal to pursue his literary dream. And works have been published of the many film reviews my father had of American films that at the time were considered "subversive", not to mention about some poetry that my dad (and others) wrote that was considered a symbol of freedom ... like lit candles in the beach at night! 15 years before Elton John!
That is the reason, why for me, things like the Epitath comments, or the national anthem done by Jimi, were important .... but sadly, the majority of the discussion here is about the fan and what he/she likes ... and life itself is not important. These days, commercialism is the biggest evil and downright worse than the Fascist days at that time!
I prefer not to discuss the Eastern countries on this matter. But I will say that they are facing changes (again!) due to the media and the internet. I doubt that many of the countries in the East that have various reasons for their controls will be able to continue doing so in the next 20 or 30 years. The same thing that happened to Europe, and then Africa will befall them.
There are some films on these things and many of them tend to be hidden and only show up on Film Festivals, and you might want to keep track of some of these ... I can remember two right off the bat, that were insane and then some ... "Divorce - Iranian Style" and a Cuban film called "Azucar Amargo" (Bitter Sugar) ... that is outstanding, and also showed that Cuba has a very lively progressive and rock music scene that we have never heard and probably won't in our lifetimes!
America's media is not very good at showing or discussing these things because of the commercial and political agreements, be they oil or otherwise. Not to mention that American media is not exactly open minded and capable of giving you an alternative view. They tend to buy out the small magazines with the purpose of killing them! Such is the power of the "corporate" industrialism that we have allowed to be created, that they do pretty much the same thing that many other countries do ... just differently ... buying you out is easier and less hassle! Other countries have not learned that trick yet!
I don't think this will ever change in America's culture. America is not showing an artistic history to the world or anyone in order to have a deeper appreciation for it, other than the biggest hits. We're still a country dominated by movies and "stars", that someone told us they were because they dressed a little less ... or sold enough to make a studio one 100 million!
Thus, the Wal-Mart's the this and that other stores, only sell that which they have deals with that is guaranteed to sell ... and they excuse that on the basis of underpaid people (minimal wages), no benefits and bad management, so they do not have to do anything else except pay more dividends to their owners and investors. And when it comes to "sharing" ... the rich do not SHARE ... so there goes the definition of a democracy in the name of greed and power! The music business is not any different, and we can even take this to a further extent when some groups and folks were gunned down ... it is by far one of the saddest things I have ever seen in my life. Kill for art ... no .. wait ... kill for my art ... not his! ...
I remember when the government was talking "global economy" ... and the first people to fight it? ... you got it ... Americans! ... and it is understand'able ... because none of us would want to get paid less ... so we could support the poor folks in some country ... that probably will never see that money anyway! But it shows you one very important concern ... the differences in values for all items and countries. I can buy 5 to 10 loaves of bread in some of those countries with the same dollar here ... and before a global economy can be done, this needs to be adjusted some ... and it is the same thing in the housing market in America ... where a house in Portland is 150K, in SF it is 600K and in NY it is 900K ... and that is insane ... completely out of line, and the same wood and materials came from the same place.
Somewhere along the way that has to get adjusted before someone can appreciate the idea of a global economy, something that even New York'rs don't accept very well ... their very own sells 100k albums and becomes an instant star ... but a small band from Vermont ... who? ... from where? ... buncha losers! And seeing the Steinbremmers or anyone else buy their "championships" ... is no different. But we LOOOOOVVVVVVVEEEEEE a winner and not a winer!
There is nothig to trust in any leadership and anyone thinking that one leadership is better than the other are simply thinking themselves better than the other person, or examples. The only thing that bothers me about America is that there is not enough respect for the "beauty" and the "art" of it all ... but there is for "American Idol" ... or some Star Search ... and that tells you that the interests are almost exclusive with one thing ... advertising. And the smaller bands, arts and works, tend to not get accepted, understood, checked out ... and totally ignored. Sometimes, one person or two make it out of those areas, but all in all, these are rare.
We had a "revolution" in the late 60's about this ... and guess what is needed again? ... but the media is going to kill it like they did then ... be it on account of drugs, sex, or whatever ... and too many of us are too comfortably numb (now you know why I can't stand that song!) to give a damn about it, or anything else ... except ... when is the next Rush album out? ... or Mars Volta ...
I'm guilty too, I suppose, but I still fight for the underdog and the ones that aren't known or discussed ... despite so many people in this borad not liking it, or thinking that making fun of me is where it's at ... in the end, it's about their "art" ... and I'm not sure they have one ... because the only art they know is someone else's!
And that is the real issue ... Edited by moshkito - March 22 2011 at 15:48 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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kglenz
Forum Newbie Joined: November 28 2010 Location: Mpls, MN, USA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: March 23 2011 at 21:39 | ||
Thanks for the reply. I think this is a valid discussion for the archives because often we scratch at the surface of the important arts within our communities yet fail to realize what an enormous undertaking it is to bring free expression to the masses and have the public audience act accordingly. It's so awesome that concerts like "Ozz Fest" & We Fest" can take place with little or no violence or difficulty. We are lucky!
Progressive rock/music has such a necessary role to play and it is a fortunate setting for anyone on the "inside". I can go into a club and hear an act unknown to me or hear an album and not judge the group by band member looks or age, social status or the size of the venue or hits, radio play, or any other commercial factors except for technical ability & originality. I react to everything by the music/content because it is foremost in my mind. So much of what society and popularity entertain themselves with is a kind of living through seeing someone who is wealthy, well known/famous, or credited by sales, popular songs, and awards. Millions of people are impressed by a fake image and will pay $20 of the CD, $30 for the DVD, and $40-$100 for the concert where they'll get T-shirts, key chains, buttons, & bumper stickers to tell the world they were there. Progressive rock is almost the antithesis of this. It's a community of "word of mouth" fans & almost better not be known by the squares who just wanna dance in 4/4 and have their verse, chorus, verse, chorus, guitar solo, chorus until the song dies formula. I think we represent the ears of those who listen beyond the current fad or pop moment wrapped in yet another formula or extreme. When classical & jazz music began, many wanted to hear popular twists in the opera or at the dance parlor, these are not what has been remembered. Beethoven's quartets were too much for the masses, Mozart was too complex and Be Bop'ers like Coltrane were the heavy metal of the day. To think that a little caravan with a two fingered gypsy guitarist would influence so many throughout the world is unimaginable - and this is exactly why I wonder about the foreign music masters that should be more visible. The world without Django Reinhardt would be that much more empty. This is what I was getting at in terms of foreign markets. I'm sure there's unknown brilliance out there that has little chance to blossom. When guitarists like Steve Morse leave the music industry because it's more profitable for them to become a pilot than after 5 years of accolades from the public & industry pro's like "best guitarist" (whatever that means) than it's likely that those in foreign markets will have even less of a chance. Here in the twin cities I've been to a few shows (Tony McAlpine, Scott Henderson, among others...) where they were basically playing to an empty room while people like Garth Brooks or Neil Diamond sell out 9 consecutive shows in a 15,000 seated hockey stadium. I'm convinced that many of the local people/bands far exceed the MTV hype. I can't imagine the music scene in places like Boston or parts of CA, NY, FL, WA, and numerous cities where there's an abundance of talented locals. But this is just the U.S. I imagine other parts of the globe are more importantly unique and could add new dimensions to the limitless boundaries of modern recorded & live music. I'm not purely an underdog person. I'm grateful to bands like The Police, Toto, Supertramp, Styx, Rush, Yes, and any groups who did some pop that enabled such a market to still exist. It's amazing when you see how big Iron Maiden & Rush are in other countries still - huge turn out's (80,000!) and how those populations have really embraced such bands while places like the U.S. only noticed them during successful selling albums or marketing campaigns. Talk about culture, what about throw away culture that treats art/music like interior design or one that believes the hype & buys into the image? There are serious implications in a society when areas of passion & beauty are treated like Ikea furniture. A Band like Rush is a good platform for a multicultural exchange but the reality is that they are not pawns like the next Hootie & The Hypes that will dance for invisible interests.
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