"In Held Twas In I" = First Prog Rock Epic? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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WatcherOfTheSkies88 View Drop Down

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Topic: "In Held Twas In I" = First Prog Rock Epic?
Posted: April 13 2010 at 00:03

Procol Harum's 17 minute 5 part epic "In Held Twas In I", released in 1968 on the album "Shine On Brightly", seems like possibly the first 15 minute or longer progressive rock epic ever made. Can anyone think of one made earlier than this? Regardless, it is an awesome song/suite. I think Pete Townsend said that this song was highly influential for him, and was part of the inspiration to make the Rock Opera "Tommy".

Lodij van der Graaf View Drop Down

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 00:28

Have the same thoughts.. But, is there any longer rock compositions before this very song? I wonder about it too.

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richardh

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 01:35

The Nice 'Ars Longa Vita Brevis' was also released in 1968 (November) but despite googling I can't find the release date for In Held Twas In I. (fair chance Procol came before obviously)

ozzy_tom

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 01:41

Others from 1968 (but don't know exact months, so not sure it was recorded before or after Procol Harum's suite):

Iron Butterfly - "In-a-gadda-da-vida"(18:50)

The Nice - "Ars Longa Vita Brevis"(19:20)

Ford Theatre - "From The Back Door Window (The Search)"(14:02) (not 15 minutes but almost)

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 05:00

Yes.

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friso

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 07:03

In Held was I was the first progressive epic. Iron Butterfly comes close, but that song isn't that progressive, it's more like an extended song with lot's of solo parts. It has no concept whatsoever, which I find important for an epic.

Rune2000

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 07:04

ozzy_tom wrote:

Others from 1968 (but don't know exact months, so not sure it was recorded before or after Procol Harum's suite):

Iron Butterfly - "In-a-gadda-da-vida"(18:50)

The Nice - "Ars Longa Vita Brevis"(19:20)

Ford Theatre - "From The Back Door Window (The Search)"(14:02) (not 15 minutes but almost)

I wouldn't call "In-a-gadda-da-vida" and "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" Prog Rock Epics in terms of structure. Both of them sound more like long jam sessions if you ask me. Ermm

Cactus Choir View Drop Down

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 07:34

Rune2000 wrote:

I wouldn't call "In-a-gadda-da-vida" and "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" Prog Rock Epics in terms of structure. Both of them sound more like long jam sessions if you ask me. Ermm

Agree with you about In-a-gadda-da-vida but not Ars Longa Vita Brevis. The latter has distinct and composed movements though admittedly one is (uh-oh) a percussion solo. What you might call 'jamming' I would term 'structured soloing' Wink

- Acceptance Brandenburg is certainly not a jam.

I think Ars Longa Vita Brevis and Shine on Brightly came out almost together in late 1968, the Procol one might have been a fraction earlier though.

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 07:44

What Love (Suite) - The Collectors (19:15). Dated 1968, sometimes 1967. Not less progressive than the early epics of Procol Harum, The Nice and Iron Butterfly.

Edited by someone_else - April 13 2010 at 07:46

earlyprog

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 07:52

Use your own definition of "prog rock epic" and pick your own favorite:

Da-da-dee/Bolivar blues (11:51) recorded 1963/ released 2001 Soft Machine ”Man in a deaf Corner: Anthology 1963-1970”

Raga (32:09) recorded 1964 / released 1968 Seventh Sons “Raga (4 AM at Frank’s)”

The Egg (14:00) 1964 Herbie Hancock “Empyrean Isles”

Desolation Row (11:24) 1965 Bob Dylan “Highway 61 Revisited”

Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands (11:00) 1966 Bob Dylan “Blonde on Blonde”

East-West (13:18) 1966 The Paul Butterfield Blues Band “East-West”

Going Home (11:14) 1966 The Rolling Stones “Aftermath”

The Return Of The Son Of Monster Magnet (12:17) 1966 Frank Zappa “Freak out!”

And I like it (10:36) recorded 1966 / released ? Jefferson Airplane

Carnival of Light (?:?) recorded 1967 / never released The Beatles

The End (11:35) 1967 The Doors “The Doors”

Alice’s Restaurant Massacree (18:20) 1967 Arlo Guthrie “Alice’s Restaurant”

Interstellar Overdrive (16:46) 1967? Pink Floyd “Tonite let’s all make love in London…plus”

Nick's Boogie (11:50) recorded 1967 / released 1999 Pink Floyd “Pink Floyd London 1966-1967”

Revelation (18:56) 1967 Love “Da Capo”

When The Music's Over (11:00) 1967 The Doors “Strange Days”

Viola Lee Blues (10:01) 1967 The Grateful Dead “The Grateful Dead”

How Suite It Is (12:16) 1967 Jefferson Airplane “After Bathing At Baxter’s”.

The Progress Suite (25:) 1967 Chad Stuart and Jeremy Clyde “Of Cabbages and Kings”.

Time has come today (11:) 1967 The Chamber Brothers.

Fantasy (10:13) 1967 Fifty Foot Hose "Cauldron".

Mass In F Minor (26:?) 1967 Electric Prunes.

Up in her Room (14:44) 1967 The Seeds “A Web of Sound”.

Hope For Happiness (13:19) Sept 1967/released 2006/2001 Soft Machine “Middle Earth Masters” and “Man in a deaf Corner”

In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida (17:05) May/June 1968 Iron Butterfly "In-a-Gadda-da-Vida"

In held Twas in I (17:31) 1968 Procol Harum “Shine on Brightly”

River deep, Mountain high (10:12) 1968 Deep Purple “Book of Taliesyn”

In the Stable of the Sphinx (11:10) recorded 1968 / released 2004 East Of Eden ”Mercator Projected”

Ars Longa Vita Brevis suite (19.26) November 1968 The Nice “Ars Longa Vita Brevis”

What Love (Suite) (19:15) 1968 The Collectors.

Lumpy Gravy (31:39) 1968 Frank Zappa “Lumpy Gravy”.

Ogden's Nut Gone Flake (?:?) 1968 The Small Faces

The Fool (12:07) 1968 Quicksilver Messenger Service “Quicksilver Messenger Service”

I put my hands on your shoulder (13:36) 1968 Groep 1850 "Agemo's trip to mother earth"

1983... A Merman I Should Turn To Be (13:46) 1968 The Jimi Hendrix Experience “Electric Ladyland”

Voodoo Child (15:05) 1968 The Jimi Hendrix Experience “Electric Ladyland”

Sister Ray (17:00) 1968 The Velvet Underground “White Light / white Heat”

River deep, Mountain high (10:12) 1968 Deep Purple “Book of Taliesyn”

Dark Star (?:?) 1968 Grateful Dead “Two from the Vault”

Fried Neckbones (10:10) recorded 1968/ released 1997 Santana “Live at the Fillmore 1968”

Soul Sacrifice (14:30) recorded 1968/ released 1997 Santana “Live at the Fillmore 1968”

Freeway (30:15) recorded 1968/ released 1997 Santana “Live at the Fillmore 1968”

In the Stable of the Sphinx (11:10) recorded 1968 / released 2004 East Of Eden ”Mercator Projected”

Edited by earlyprog - April 13 2010 at 08:28

earlyprog

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 08:03

Acc. to Sean Trane: "Shine on Brightly was releasedin the UK in -dec 68, but released in the US in Sept 68 and Germany in oct 68" http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23727&KW=date&PID=1990258#1990258

The Nice released the "Ars longa vita brevis" suite in November 1968 in the UK. Outside the UK...?

The recording dates is another mystery I would like to have clarified.

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 10:06

S.F. Sorrow, anybody?

lazland

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 13:12

Days of Future Passed was released in 1967, and whilst Forever Afternoon (8.23) and Nights in White Satin (7.39) were not as long as the PH epic, you could argue that these were epic tracks and predated the PH opus.

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richardh

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 13:44

lazland wrote:

Days of Future Passed was released in 1967, and whilst Forever Afternoon (8.23) and Nights in White Satin (7.39) were not as long as the PH epic, you could argue that these were epic tracks and predated the PH opus.

But then The Nice recorded an 8 minute track for their debut album 'The Thoughts Of Emerlist Davjack'(1967) called Rondo.

Also what about the Beatles 'Day In The Life'?

Probably needs to be 10 minutes plus to qualify.

lazland

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 14:01

richardh wrote:

But then The Nice recorded an 8 minute track for their debut album 'The Thoughts Of Emerlist Davjack'(1967) called Rondo.

Also what about the Beatles 'Day In The Life'?

Probably needs to be 10 minutes plus to qualify.

Careful Richard. You're in danger of starting a whole new "how long does a song have to be to be an epic?" thread! LOL

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jammun

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 17:30

If not the first, it would rank up there in the first five or so. It's been a while since I've heard Ars Longa Vita Brevis, so I can't comment on that. IHTII was probably the first I ever heard. I'm not sure about the release date...I seem to recall getting it in the late fall or winter, so I would've just turned 14 years old. I wouldn't have considered The Doors or Iron Butterfly in Procol's league at all, even at the time.

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Posted: April 13 2010 at 19:19

according to the "Prog Rock Brittania" documentary I watched, yes it was

richardh

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Posted: April 14 2010 at 01:54

HTCF wrote:

according to the "Prog Rock Brittania" documentary I watched, yes it was

Seem to remember hating that programme with its 'anti-ELP' slant. Doubt they would have wanted to have given any credit to Keith Emerson tbh.

Cactus Choir View Drop Down

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Posted: April 14 2010 at 02:34

Richard, I thought Prog Rock Britannia was a really excellent programme and , as an ELP fan myself, didn't notice any great antipathy towards the band.

Maybe you're mixing it up with another prog doc done a couple of years before which they dug up to show again on BBC 4 with the Britannia one. That had John Peel having his traditional pop at ELP, plus someone called Paul Stump being snootily dismissive of the band. Stump was particularly annoying. He was billed a a "Prog Expert" but seemed to actually dislike the genre and not even know that much about it.

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Posted: April 14 2010 at 11:19

Quote " Alice’s Restaurant Massacree (18:20) 1967 Arlo Guthrie “Alice’s Restaurant”

you bring up come nice teenage flashback there, thanks man !!!!!!

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