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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 3323
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Topic: Prog and Lucifer Posted: May 15 2005 at 22:45 |
Whats you feeling on their relationship. Most of the
great progressive rock from the 70's was made by
those under the influence of psychedelics, narcotics
and practitioners of occult, new age or mystical
teachings. Most of the european progressive music
was also developed for listening to in the altered
state that the musicians were being enhanced by.
Whats your opionion?
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James Lee
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Joined: June 05 2004
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Points: 3525
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Posted: May 15 2005 at 23:22 |
Lucifer, meaning "light-bringer", is another name for the devil of Judeo-Christian mythology. Nominally, he is conceptually related to Prometheus, who brought the gift (and curse) of fire to mankind. He also sometimes represents the divine spirit flawed by pride and/or vanity.
Considering drugs and esoteric religions as symptomatic of satanic or demonic influence is still a common idea among the religiously conservative or orthodox, even in this relatively cosmopolitan day and age. However, seekers of 'light' have almost universally explored such avenues- especially artists and philosophers, for whom orthodoxy often seems both restrictive and shallow.
Musicians (of the artistic rather than the performing-monkey variety) ride the dangerous line between the intense discipline of mastering their art and the desire to bring new 'light' into a mundane world. As little Lucifers, or diminuative Prometheans, their efforts are often regarded with suspicion, contempt, or even loathing by the orthodox.
One of the main goals of the psychedelic movement was to 'open the doors of perception'. By allowing people to see the world in a different way, it was thought that a new age of enlightenment could arise. The failure of that movement was not the fault of the ideals, but of the trappings and collateral. Many people realized, as Ken Kesey tried to explain at the last Acid Test, that once the doors of perception were opened you could not simply keep going through them over and over again...you had to find your own path, your own answer to the riddle. Many people did not understand, or could not find that answer, and were lost.
One can mourn the lost and yet celebrate the light they brought.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 01:00 |
Drugs influence and exotic religions is very common in Prog' band even more in Psychedelia, but honestly I can't find Satanic influence in Prog' with one or two exceptions.
Iván
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The Hemulen
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 08:50 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Drugs influence and exotic religions is very
common in Prog' band even more in Psychedelia, but honestly I
can't find Satanic influence in Prog' with one or two exceptions.
Iván |
Comus, perhaps? They have a very "pagan" feel at any rate...
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MorgothSunshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2005
Location: Italy
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Points: 298
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 09:08 |
Drugs and alterd perceptions were very common but satanism is a little bit different!
I can say only few bands that had a " satanic" appeal:
-Black Widow;
-Jacula;
Bands like Black Sabbath or Lucifer's Friend were absolutely not satanic in the real sense, they just like occultism and like to present theirselves with a dark halo...
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For every truth even the contrary is true...
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con safo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1230
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 11:28 |
Alot of acid-folk bands used pagan themes in their music, namely Comus, Jan Dukes De Gray, Aphrodites Child.. Many times they weren't directly about satan but dealed with very dark and morbid subjects.
I personally love the tense atmosphere that pagan themes can emit, they can be truly chilling.
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geezer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands
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Points: 606
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 11:46 |
My choice as the king of this category would definately be Jacula.
Apparently, some of their recording sessions include real satanic
cults. When I listen to "Tardo Pede in Magiam Versus" I do not have any
doubts. Could the session be what's in the 2nd track "Praesentia
Domini"? Scary stuff!
There has even been some texts (rumours?) that one of their band members was killed in a satanic cult. I could be wrong here.
Black metal is another thing but I doubt any band can beat Jacula in the progressive world.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 12:19 |
Con Safo, Aphrodite's Child has nothing to do with satanism, they all are members of the Catholic Orthodox Church. 666 was the title of their best album, but it's a very respectful adaptation of The Book of Saint John also called the Apocalypse or Book of Revelations.
They gained the fame of stanists because they said 666 was composed under the influence of Sahlep, all the fundamentalist churchs accused them of worshiping a pagan divinity, some even said Sahlep was a Greek name for Satan,, something you can still find on the net.
But the truth is that Sahlep is a common alcoholic beverage from Turkey, Cyprus and Greece.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Litl
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 112
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 13:01 |
James Lee wrote:
Lucifer, meaning "light-bringer", is another name
for the devil of Judeo-Christian mythology. Nominally, he is
conceptually related to Prometheus, who brought the gift (and curse) of
fire to mankind. He also sometimes represents the divine
spirit flawed by pride and/or vanity.
Considering drugs and esoteric religions as symptomatic of satanic
or demonic influence is still a common idea among the
religiously conservative or orthodox, even in this relatively
cosmopolitan day and age. However, seekers of 'light' have almost
universally explored such avenues- especially artists and philosophers,
for whom orthodoxy often seems both restrictive and shallow.
Musicians (of the artistic rather than the performing-monkey
variety) ride the dangerous line between the intense discipline of
mastering their art and the desire to bring new 'light'
into a mundane world. As little Lucifers, or diminuative
Prometheans, their efforts are often regarded with suspicion,
contempt, or even loathing by the orthodox.
One of the main goals of the psychedelic movement was to 'open the
doors of perception'. By allowing people to see the world in a
different way, it was thought that a new age of enlightenment could
arise. The failure of that movement was not the fault of the ideals,
but of the trappings and collateral. Many people realized, as Ken Kesey
tried to explain at the last Acid Test, that once the doors of
perception were opened you could not simply keep going through them
over and over again...you had to find your own path, your own answer to
the riddle. Many people did not understand, or could not find that
answer, and were lost.
One can mourn the lost and yet celebrate the light they brought. |
EXCELLENT Mr. Lee. We blind ourselves with our orthodoxy.
It becomes common, then assumed, then mundane, then staid, and then,
having lost its original inspiration and intent, becomes insecure and
therefore self-righteous (I live in the USA after all!). That's
where hallucinogens come in. They break up the old crust and let
us see anew again. (Think of the '60's). They let the light
back in, the light that was forgotten while the old orthodoxy
calcified. There is much more to be concerned with the opiate of
the masses than desire for Light. I'm not promoting the use of
hallucinogens here, but making a point about Light. There are
other ways to it and as JL closes with in his post, you've got to find
your own way to it, and without a crutch.
And: to employ the concept of satan toward such an endeavor is the fear
of the orthodoxy expressing itself, nothing more. Like anything
else it wants to survive and anything that threatens this is labeled as
bad.
Pax
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con safo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1230
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 13:32 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Con Safo, Aphrodite's Child has nothing to do with satanism, they all are members of the Catholic Orthodox Church. 666 was the title of their best album, but it's a very respectful adaptation of The Book of Saint John also called the Apocalypse or Book of Revelations.
They gained the fame of stanists because they said 666 was composed under the influence of Sahlep, all the fundamentalist churchs accused them of worshiping a pagan divinity, some even said Sahlep was a Greek name for Satan,, something you can still find on the net.
But the truth is that Sahlep is a common alcoholic beverage from Turkey, Cyprus and Greece.
Iván
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I figured i'd get a reply like this .. i never claimed they were satanists, but the album 666 does deal with the apocolypse, and of course paganism and satan play a role in that.
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abyssyinfinity
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 443
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 13:57 |
Listen to Coven's "Witchcraft" and their fantastic masterpiece Black Mass (13.17 mins. lenghth...)
Also, despite their name, Biglietto per l'Inferno (Ticket to Hell), is not in satanic vein, on the contrary their singer is now a monk in Garfagnana (Italy)!!!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 18:54 |
I figured i'd get a reply like this .. i never claimed they were satanists, but the album 666 does deal with the apocolypse, and of course paganism and satan play a role in that.
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Satan plays a role in Apocalypse,but from the Christian/Catholic point of view, it's a prophecy that hasn't been fullfilled yet,
Satanism has nothing to do with Apocalypse, is the prophecy of the triumph of God over the Devuil.
But for God's sake Reveletions is a Book from the Holy Bible, Paganism has nothing to do with that.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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con safo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1230
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 19:04 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
I figured i'd get a reply like this .. i never claimed they were
satanists, but the album 666 does deal with the apocolypse, and of
course paganism and satan play a role in that.
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Satan plays a role in Apocalypse,but from the Christian/Catholic
point of view, it's a prophecy that hasn't been fullfilled
yet,
Satanism has nothing to do with Apocalypse, is the prophecy of the triumph of God over the Devil.
But for God's sake Reveletions is a Book from the Holy Bible, Paganism has nothing to do with that.
Iván |
I haven't listened to the album very thoroughly. I figured it was about
the apocolypse, and that usually has something to do with satan, so i
listed it. Forgive me please for i have sinned.. Now can i come down
off of this cross?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 22:19 |
Con Safo wrote:
I haven't listened to the album very thoroughly. I figured it was about the apocolypse, and that usually has something to do with satan, so i listed it. Forgive me please for i have sinned.. Now can i come down off of this cross?
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You're forgiven my child
Iván
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: May 16 2005 at 22:53 |
thanks for explaining the 5 minute witch howling
orgasm, is that one of the rituals of the orthodox?
James you dance well for a puppet boy!
Edited by DallasBryan
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James Lee
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Joined: June 05 2004
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Points: 3525
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Posted: May 17 2005 at 01:37 |
All in good fun.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: May 17 2005 at 12:58 |
Dallas Bryan wrote:
thanks for explaining the 5 minute witch howling orgasm, is that one of the rituals of the orthodox? |
I was expecting that question DB, and the answer is simple, Infinity is a reference to the whore of Babylon who corrupted all the kings in the Apocalypse. (Revelations Chapters 17 and 18)
I told you, it's very close to the Scriptures.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 15:11 |
This guy like good music yust like everybody else
The evil one sits and lisen to the Devils triangle by King Crimson and he dig it!
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banjocat
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 04 2007
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Points: 17
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Posted: July 04 2007 at 14:22 |
AARON NO YOU DID NOT FOOL QUITE EVERYONE! "BLACK MASS LUCIFER" WAS ONE OF THE FIRST RECORDS i EVER BOUGHT. nEVER SEEN THE CD THOUGH.
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Rocktopus
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Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 16:27 |
YO! CAPS LOCK MAN! ITS AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC ALBUM! Dr Z: Three Parts to my Soul Another disturbing occult, electronic obscurity: Ruth White: Flowers of Evil There's another album presented there, some electronic meditation album I have't heard. There's loads of occult-flirting prog, but very litte satanic.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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