Atheist bus campaign

There are buses most of which UK residents are sure to of seen around with the slogan "There's Probably no god,Now stop worrying and enjoy life,"

There was a case in which an elderly bus drivers refused to drive the bus with that on the side.

I personally think it's fantastic and knowing its quite a controversial subject,I wonder you opinions on this.

More information at http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/

Saying  "there is probably no God"  is not the same as saying "there is no God", is it...not really a true Atheist statement at all, though such statements are still bound to cause offence to many. I am not a regular churchgoer and would rather listen to a lecture by Darwin instead of the Vicar but i feel religion, though always a confusing mass of contradictions,  still has an important role to play in society (especially these days) and should not be publicly denigrated. 

Edited by mystic fred - February 27 2009 at 02:57

BaldJean wrote: mystic fred wrote: Saying  "there is probably no God"  is not the same as saying "there is no God", is it...not really a true Atheist statement at all, though such statements are still bound to cause offence to many. I am not a regular churchgoer and would rather listen to a lecture by Darwin instead of the Vicar but i feel religion, though always a confusing mass of contradictions,  still has an important role to play in society and should not be publicly denigrated.    ...but the rest of the message is fine   I don't quite see how Darwin comes in here. many Christians have no problem at all to believe in God and in evolution   to elaborate on that point i agree with Christian values and ethics but would read the scriptures as spiritual analogies but not as actual historical fact I must say I have high respect for the bus driver who refused to drive the bus with this inscription on it. not necessarily because I agree with him but because he had the courage to stand up for his opinion i agree wholeheartedly

BaldJean wrote: I don't quite see how Darwin comes in here. many Christians have no problem at all to believe in God and in evolution.

Are you talking about micro or macro evolution?

I must say I have high respect for the bus driver who refused to drive the bus with this inscription on it. not necessarily because I agree with him but because he had the courage to stand up for his opinion

Same. Except I might agree with the bus driver more than the bus.





Edited by progismylife - February 27 2009 at 03:43

progismylife wrote: 1) I find it amusing that they don't have the balls to say there is no God. 2) Why is the thought of God something to worry about?

there is a difference between an atheist and an agnostic. the atheist denies there is any deity, the agnostic simply isn't sure.
for further information read these wikipedia articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
I personally always find the claim of atheists that there is no evidence for a deity anywhere highly amusing. I see the evidence wherever I look.
actually what most atheists are up against is a certain image of God, and I am perfectly fine with that. the deity is not a judge who rewards some people with heaven and condemns others to hell. and the deity is not a wand-waver that just goes and says "let there be an elephant"! this is what most atheists object to, but as I said, it is just a certain image of God which they reject. no, "subtle are the ways of the Lord", as an old Christian saying goes, and though I am not a Christian I heartily agree with this saying, though I don't use the term "Lord".
in his excellent essay "Is God a Taoist?", written in the form of a dialogue between a mortal and God, logician Raymond Smullyan has God say that he is not the cause of the cosmic process, he is the cosmic process himself. this is very much my belief, the only difference is that I prefer the female pronoun, since I see the deity as mother of all.
I think even an atheist could not really grumble about the concept of a God who is nothing more and nothing less than the cosmic process. actually at one point in the dialogue God is amused about a remark of the human when he says:
"But if you are really such an abstract thing as a process, I don't see what sense it can make my talking to a mere process."
God's reply is: "I love the way you say “mere.” You might just as well say that you are living in a mere universe.”

at another point of his essay Smullyan has God say: "What I am saying is that one who knows me for what I really am would simply find it psychologically impossible to hate me. "
I would agree to that, only I would use the word "deny" instead of "hate" (and I think this is what Smullyan actually meant).
anyone who is interested in reading that essay, which in my opinion is not only very deep, but also a highly entertaining read, can find it here:
http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/IsGodTaoist.html


Edited by BaldJean - February 27 2009 at 04:43

I saw this quite some time ago. These London buses were in response to a advertising compaigne from some Christian group about a year ago or more. As the people behind this pointed out, if its OK for the Church to advertise on the side of buses then its OK for them.

The use of the word "probably" was to protect themselves from lawsuits (as always oversensitive religious people took offense to it), since they cant provide proof in a court of law that their is no God then they cant put it in the advert.

^I havnt been in a situation like that but I can be pretty confident that I wouldnt be begging and praying to any type of "God". 

progismylife wrote: progmetalhead wrote: progismylife wrote: 1) I find it amusing that they don't have the balls to say there is no God. 2) Why is the thought of God something to worry about?   An true Atheist will never say there is NO god. That is the point.   It assumes proof is available to make that statement and, of course, there isn't.     So there is no such thing as a true atheist? I thought atheists say there is no god. Maybe you could enlighten me as to what atheism is, I'd rather not trust my own suppositions.

Edited by progmetalhead - February 27 2009 at 06:18

chopper wrote: BaldJean wrote: there is a difference between an atheist and an agnostic. the atheist denies there is any deity, the agnostic simply isn't sure. for further information read these wikipedia articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism Wikipedia also says "it is also defined more broadly as an absence of belief in deities". That's a subtle difference to saying there is no God. I don't believe in fairies but I would obviously would if someone showed me one flying around my house. I feel the same about God, until someone shows me some proof, I don't believe there is one. Then again, it depends what your definition of "God" is.

to that I can only answer with a quote from the already mentioned essay of Raymond Smullyan:

MORTAL:   I mean, why don't you appear to our very senses and simply tell us that we are wrong?

GOD:   Are you really so naive as to believe that I am the sort of being which can appear to your senses? It would be more correct to say that I am your senses.

MORTAL (astonished):   You are my senses?

GOD:   Not quite, I am more than that. But it comes closer to the truth than the idea that I am perceivable by the senses. I am not an object; like you, I am a subject, and a subject can perceive, but cannot be perceived. You can no more see me than you can see your own thoughts. You can see an apple, but the event of your seeing an apple is itself not seeable. And I am far more like the seeing of an apple than the apple itself.