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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 19 2022 at 08:37
Let's say you have a great singer who plays bass (since there's already 4-5 guys) but not very well, and can admit to it. Just playing the root. No more, no less, OR, a guy is there because he's best friends with someone, or they grew up...  Maybe someone looks back and can say, "Well, in the 60s my ______ wasn't very good" (but could be good or even great now).

I read this more than usual, but it's not usually my favorites, so I tend to forget.... Even if it's just an album or a song, where someone in a popular band can say, "Yeah, I played like garbage".... even if it sold millions. Even if all the fans loved it.
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Allan Holdswoth was humble. That's why he didn't release many of his live shows while he was alive. He was never happy with his playing.

I'm glad his family is releasing posthumous recordings. They sound awesome to me.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdswoth was humble. That's why he didn't release many of his live shows while he was alive. He was never happy with his playing.

I'm glad his family is releasing posthumous recordings. They sound awesome to me.

First name I thought of.

Nick Mason has had to hand off some Floyd duties as he wasn't capable and he seemed to be relaxed with it.
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Well there is the Danish heavy metal band Red Warszawa...
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdswoth was humble. That's why he didn't release many of his live shows while he was alive. He was never happy with his playing.

I'm glad his family is releasing posthumous recordings. They sound awesome to me.

First name I thought of.

Nick Mason has had to hand off some Floyd duties as he wasn't capable and he seemed to be relaxed with it.


That was one I had in mind, but Pink Floyd is my favorite band, and I wanted to see how long it would take for someone else to mention him :)
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdswoth was humble. That's why he didn't release many of his live shows while he was alive. He was never happy with his playing.

I'm glad his family is releasing posthumous recordings. They sound awesome to me.

Me too---  not all equally, but they are fascinating to listen to :

Japan '84
  • Live In Japan 1984
Poland '98
  • Warsaw Summer Jazz Days '98
Gny 2010


Edited by Atavachron - May 19 2022 at 19:13
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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IOU is my favorite followed closely by Metal Fatigue!
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^ both incredible--  I've been a fan since the early 80s and I'm still beginning to appreciate the nuances of his music, complex & subtle rhythms, and the interface of vocals with composition & synthesizer .
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 12252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 20:09
^ I love all Allan's solo work. "Hard Hat Area" and "The Sixteen Men of Tain" are outstanding also.

His music resonates with me, and I was lucky to see him live, three times. Miss him.
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Love his solo with UK on “In the Dead of Night” too. One of the best legato style players ever. So creative. I doubt we’ll ever hear someone like him again in our lifetime.

Every once in a while I get the urge to listen to the Unmerry-Go-Round on Metal Fatigue. The arpeggiated patterns and drop-in volume-controlled chords are hypnotic and haunting. There has to be some back story to that one.
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You absolutely hear where he was impacted by horn players the most.   Sometimes it sounds like he pretended he actually was playing a saxophone, and it must've been a major physical component in how he fretted notes.  

I also think he was one of a handful of musicians who had found a "lost chord", and by that I mean he worked in a very narrow vein of harmony & melody that hadn't been fully explored by anyone, certainly not a guitar player.   His compositions sound like no one else's in the history of recorded music.   That itself is an accomplishment.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 12252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 18:07
^ Execellent description! Allan sounded and played like no one else. It's a shame his work as a hired hand gets more praise then his solo work on PA.
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It can be a long road to Holdsworth as a solo artist.   Bleu cheese smells and sometimes tastes like a dead man's feet.   It's also delicious & complex once you get past that.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 12252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 18:35
^ For some, maybe. I was hooked on his first note as a solo artist.

Cool that this has morphed into a Holdswoth appreciation thread.
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^ I'd say that's rare... at least to fully appreciate his music and not just a dazzling lead break.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Cool that this has morphed into a Holdswoth appreciation thread.

buncha Holdsworth thugs we are--  I'm sure the OP would like to see someone else mentioned.

Let's see...yeah I got nothing.   I know Roger W. and Keith E. and Peter G. and Eddie VH were not thrilled with the sound of certain records, but that's different.   And I'm sure many musicians felt an album performance was poor and we just never heard their thoughts.   The urge is to apologize but maybe it's better to say nothing and do better next time.





Edited by Atavachron - May 20 2022 at 19:04
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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I'm also a Holdsworth fan-boy, but let's move on! 

I was surprised to read Mike Rutherford of "Genesis" say that he didn't think he was very good, comparing himself to his peers in the 70's!  Personally, I thought he was God-like on the bass guitar!  
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I'll fully admit I'm not a good musician. Because if you don't, you never get better. 

Music isn't an exam, there is no pass / fail. It takes you a lifetime to learn, you stop learning when the lid gets screwed down on the big pine box. Once you start thinking you're good at music, someone will come along with more experience and wipe the floor with you. 

I went into work on Friday. The boss is in a band. He's an amateur musician, nice bloke. I do a setup on his bass, he's really pleased with it. To test it, I play some Jaco on it - he says "You're putting me to shame". 

"No, honestly", I said, "I've got no kids, I don't work all the hours God sends like you do, it's not a competition, you're doing great, don't worry about it." 

"Good" is relative where music is concerned. It's a dangerous concept as well. "Good enough for what you do" might be a bit safer. 

The number of arrogant, impatient "good" musicians I have met... who are utterly intolerant of anyone who's not up to *their* superior standard. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - May 21 2022 at 03:21

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I can't find it anymore but I seem to remember an interview with Adrian Belew where he states that he doesn't see himself as a very good guitar player and that his reliance on effects pedals and guitar synths stems from his desire to hide his supposed lack of skill.
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^ And he'd be right---  Belew's an artist, and does exactly what he's supposed to.  The Edge, too, for that matter. (consummate professionals, of course.  You don't rise to the top of the rock food chain without totally knowing you're sh*t.)
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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