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Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice
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TheCrazyCloud View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 18 2022 at 07:05
Looking to push other prog fans to listen to the two and only rock operas by Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim rice. These being Jesus Christ superstar and Evita. Both are certainly prog,let be clear I'm talk about the original concept albums and not any form of stage adaptation. All of which are truly subpar and are missing large chucks of instrumentals among an enormous amount of other issues. the level of musical complexity particularly in Evita eclipse any prog I have ever heard, maybe some top end stuff like relayer, thick as a brick, or Passion play are near. But I really think it's a true tragedy that the majority of prog fans associate these albums with horrible and b*****dist stage performances. And I really do recommend everyone check them out.
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Points: 43718 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 07:08
Push us? 
No pushing!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOL

The original Jesus Christ Superstar, with Ian Gillan is great, I get back to it from time to time.

Evita - that I've never cared for. 
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Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheCrazyCloud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 07:19
Have you checked out the original album of Evita ever? Cos the film and the stage shows are all terrible I can't believe how different they are. The bass and guitar work is insane, it feels like if gentle giant wrote an opera lol
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Points: 43718 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 07:34
^ can you post a listening link? 
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Points: 4462 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 08:58
I'm a big ALW fan. Love JC Superstar, Evita, Joseph, Phantom....Great stuff. 
Even School of Rock was fun (Stick it to the Man!)  
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Points: 9050 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 10:34
I'll push with you; I love their rock operas. Saw Jesus Christ Superstar at a West End performance in London, late 70s (I was still a kid). Somehow I always preferred the film score version, with Ted Neely a.o...

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https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lt3WuWRr-egvfAYkN_-YDSikWV0gOlzbA
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TheCrazyCloud View Drop Down
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Push through to Eva and magaldi that's when it starts to heat up 🔥
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Points: 28064 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2022 at 00:34
Don't forget the Variations album that ALW put out in 1978 featuring the fusion band Colosseum II (Gary Moore , Don Airey etc) and Rod Argent as well as his brother. 
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Hi,

I remember when these came out, and I kinda refused to see (and hear) JCS because the new tendency those days was to deny the fun and dope and say that they were a Christian now ... and the whole thing became a bad joke. I'll probably watch it someday, but I don't like worship things a lot, and always find them shmoozy and overly doped up on the idea. That's never been me.

I think what hurt EVITA, more than anything else, was that the person that kinda helped make it better known (Madonna) but it's hard to not think that the director was valuable since it was Alan Parker, who had already done MIDNIGHT EXPRESS, FAME, ANGEL HEART, MISSISSIPI BURNING, THE COMMITMENTS (not as good as the original English film btw!!!) was going to make it better, however, when I saw it, I thought it was a jumbled mess, and I ended up not listening to the music of the show itself because of it. My guess is that the film was too long, and it got so badly cut up to bring it to an audience that could not endure something for 2 hours, let alone more than that (W says 134 minutes). 

Our listening ability by that time, had already lost its ability to listen to longer pieces of music and more intelligent "concept" pieces around, though some still got out and became known as "progressive", but they were nowhere near the level of quality or creativity than things that had been around some 20 to 25 years earlier.

Just like PA ended up doing a definition and a top this and that, it became a place for fans to vote for their favorite albums, and listening to something from South Africa is rarely in the agenda, let alone something from Japan get a decent word on it, other than Damo's wonderful blog!

I'm not a person that has to see "the stars" ... I saw TD before it was super well known (1st time in first US tour), I saw PF before it was super well known (Hollywood Bowl 1972) and many other things. In general, the only things I wanted to see were Magma, Gong, Ange, Guru Guru, but the chances of these coming to America were very difficult, although Gong did (and lost money) and Magma did fairly well in their first 2 tours. 

As an example, I probably would not buy tickets for a performance of Evita if it was done locally, or in Seattle or in LA (unless it had either Mariah/Brittany or Lady Gaga in the lead? Something that won't happen because they don't need it, but a new strong voice would be nice, but betting on the more tantalizing side of the story, which even the movie had taken away (to save minutes) ... makes for a production that would be hurt so bad by all the cuts and the story getting ripped up ... and of course, it would not stand up to the daily folks that go see the hero films, unless there were some breasts to go see, even if slightly hidden, or suggested as many of those films! Heck a version with some nudity would probably be better received!

It's sad, bizarre. We called "TOMMY" a rock opera, and EVITA was a "rock opera" of sorts and yet, we don't seem to come to grips with the genre or its ideas and ways of performance. In general, the rock fans, do not have the sentiment to sit through an opera ... and you can imagine one of these fans immediately saying what a waste, if they went to see Wagner and how much "filler" and wasted space the opera had!!!!! ... and to me this is serious issue about folks not listening to music, regardless of it being EVITA or anything else.

At a different time, I think there would be more respect, and even some place like the MET might entertain showing it ... but because it doesn't have the "known" big names in music and opera, it will never be there, to attract a new audience ... I imagine they think it is a loser right from the choice at the start!
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Points: 9050 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2022 at 08:44
^ You can say a lot about JCS, but in my opinion it is definitely not a worship kind of thing...

Regarding Alan Parker's Evita, I actually quite liked the film, and even Madonna's role in it (maybe her best role ever, because I don't think she is such a great actress...). And I don't think she did hurt the reputation of the work - how could that be when it was such a box-office success. The critical reception was more ambivalent, probably also because the original work is such a masterpiece, and - I think also - because many of those critics had a prejudice against a "pop artist" interpreting this "highly valued artistic" piece of work.

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Originally posted by TheCrazyCloud TheCrazyCloud wrote:

Looking to push other prog fans to listen to the two and only rock operas by Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim rice. These being Jesus Christ superstar and Evita. Both are certainly prog,let be clear I'm talk about the original concept albums and not any form of stage adaptation. All of which are truly subpar and are missing large chucks of instrumentals among an enormous amount of other issues. the level of musical complexity particularly in Evita eclipse any prog I have ever heard, maybe some top end stuff like relayer, thick as a brick, or Passion play are near. But I really think it's a true tragedy that the majority of prog fans associate these albums with horrible and b*****dist stage performances. And I really do recommend everyone check them out.

Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat is technically a rock opera and it is written by those two. So how can Evita and JCS be the only two?
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Points: 20250 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2022 at 02:57
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by TheCrazyCloud TheCrazyCloud wrote:

Looking to push other prog fans to listen to the two and only rock operas by Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim rice. These being Jesus Christ superstar and Evita. Both are certainly prog,let be clear I'm talk about the original concept albums and not any form of stage adaptation. All of which are truly subpar and are missing large chucks of instrumentals among an enormous amount of other issues. the level of musical complexity particularly in Evita eclipse any prog I have ever heard, maybe some top end stuff like relayer, thick as a brick, or Passion play are near. But I really think it's a true tragedy that the majority of prog fans associate these albums with horrible and b*****dist stage performances. And I really do recommend everyone check them out.

Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat is technically a rock opera and it is written by those two. So how can Evita and JCS be the only two?


let alone The Who's Tommy or Quadrophenia, the most "proggy" ones.


But my fave "opera/musical" is Haïr from Rado, Ragni & McDermot

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Points: 3041 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2022 at 23:39
^Well I was referring to what OP said specifically. That JCS and Evita are the only two rock operas written by ALW and TR. But that isn't true.
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