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Joined: December 12 2016
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Topic: is Metal Rock Progressive !? Posted: December 25 2016 at 14:02
in 64 years , i've discovered so many genres of Progressive Rock music , can we admit that Heavy Metal Rock ( Tool , Porcupine Tree , Opeth .... etc ... ) are Progressive for the Old timers like me !?
P Tree adopted metal for use in prog rock until they forgot to do both (last album). Opeth - well if you can either enjoy / tolerate the death growl or find something that has their metal without the growls (so, so daft...). Tool are ok if to me a bit dull, They sound like backing tracks without development half the time. I've yet to hear the much lauded Lateralus though.
I suppose it's how progressive is defined. I think it's not so much where music is going stylistically but where its roots are and how far from those roots can a band go? e.g. Black Sabbath roots are jazz. Now there is a prog metal band for you.
Joined: October 03 2008
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Posted: December 26 2016 at 08:06
Manuel wrote:
A_Flower wrote:
Depends on the type of metal
Exactly my thoughts.
As example, I don't dislike thrash-metal, but it's far from being progressive (unless we're discussing Voivod or Coroner). And I could go on like that for hours, namedropping bands like Mötörhead, Venom or Entombed... to talk about some artists playing a rather basic (yet enjoyable) music.
There are so many subgenres, tendencies inside said subgenres, micro-movements... that it's hard to make a general statement about the "progressiveness" of metal.
Joined: November 03 2006
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Posted: December 27 2016 at 03:02
Heavy metal rock?
Sounds like Uriah Heep or Deep Purple or Judas Priest or Triumph or Van Halen or Thin Lizzy etc.
Porcupine Tree is not metal at all.
Of you mean the style that Porcupine Tree and Tool and Opeth plays. I think on this website it's called heavy prog(?!?), but Rush is Heavy Prog aswell. So my guess is; if you like Rush, you will probably like Tool and Porcupine Tree.
Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: December 27 2016 at 21:03
retroactive wrote:
...can we admit that Heavy Metal Rock ( Tool , Porcupine Tree , Opeth .... etc ... ) are Progressive for the Old timers like me !?
It rather depends upon whether you consider "Heavy Metal Rock", such as the bands you listed, to be "Progressive". I'll assume you do. If you find such bands and style to be progressive, then others like you must also. Likewise, if you don't consider them progressive then other like-minded people surely feel the same.
In actuality, some old-timers and young ones consider them progressive (and/or Prog) and others don't. Some consider them to be progressive some of the time and unprogressive (or less progressive) at other times. Many people see varying degrees of progressiveness for the bands on any given release as well as their over-all releases, and many people hold assumptions on the general progressive-worthiness of a band based on limited exposure,. Just as Prog is a mixed-bag, so are the people who listen to it, although we certainly find more consensus with some acts and albums than with others.
As for me, I don't have much of an opinion on how progressive those particular bands are, or have been throughout their careers. There are many bands with heavy metal qualities that I do think have made progressive music, and I certainly do think that metal rock can be progressive.
P.S. At progarchives we have an admit nothing and deny everything policy. Please see our legal FAQ, which I deny the existence of. Seriously, it really doesn't exist (EDIT: to be clear, I mean I do not admit to this site having a legal FAQ that claims that nothing must be admitted and everything should be denied, but I'm not denying that we have legal policies). That said, we (as in TPTB) did admit those bands you mentioned, so I can safely say that people at this site did consider them to be suitable for a progressive rock site.
Joined: November 03 2006
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Posted: December 28 2016 at 03:14
I don't know, I don't really care.
I know metal-fanatics who hate everything that's not oldskool metal. They hate nu-metal and alt.metal.
When I think of metal, I mostly think of thrash, death, speed, etc. I don't think Deep Purple or Tool or My Dying Bride or Linkin Park are metalbands. But that's just the way I categorize my music in my head.
Is Porcupine Tree heavy? Not really. Steven Wilson plays some occasional riffs, but mostly it's just heavy rock and atmospheric soundscapes.
Toto and Chicago are much more heavy than Porcupine Tree.
On Fear of a Blank Planet is some heavy double kick-drumming, but not enough to be metal in my opinion.
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Posted: December 28 2016 at 03:37
retroactive wrote:
in 64 years , i've discovered so many genres of Progressive Rock music , can we admit that Heavy Metal Rock ( Tool , Porcupine Tree , Opeth .... etc ... ) are Progressive for the Old timers like me !?
Yes we can.
Old timers like us can be receptive to all forms of Progressive Rock music especially with our wealth of experience and knowledge, (I was "in to" the three specific bands you have highlighted long before they became associated with the Progressive Rock scene). What is evident about Tool, Opeth and Porcupine Tree is that they are not what you would call traditional Progressive Metal as we know it that grew out of the Thrash Metal genre during the late 80s (eg Death, Voivod, Queensr˙che, Dream Theatre, Savatage, Threshold, etc.), but different kinds of Progressive Metal all together and not necessarily related.
The key thing here is that not only was the "metal" that these three bands brought to Progressive Rock coming from different quarters of the Metal genre, (Opeth=>Swedish Melodic Death Metal; Tool=>American Alt-Metal and Porcupine Tree=>pastiche Heavy metal), but the Progressive Rock heritage they drew upon was also different, so the fusion of "Prog" and "Metal" they produced (during the short time each actually made "Prog Metal" albums) was radically different to each other and to the rest of the Prog Metal subgenre.
"classic examples"
Opeth: Still Life and Blackwater Park
Porcupine Tree: In Absentia and Deadwing
Tool: Ęnima and Lateralus
Other notable non-traditional Prog Metal bands this old timer really likes:
Joined: September 03 2005
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Posted: December 28 2016 at 03:46
I consider Tech-Extreme a truly 'progressive' form of music. No matter how brutal. Just not for everyone. I dig Meshuggah, yet Slayer scare the skin off my bones.............
Joined: November 03 2006
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Posted: December 28 2016 at 03:50
A lot of deathmetal that emeged in the early nineties (Death, Atheist, Cynic, Nocturnus) were really, really progressive. Lots of jazzrock/fusion elements.
But people used to call it tech-death (or technical deathmetal).
Joined: September 03 2005
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Posted: December 28 2016 at 04:14
^ Indeed - splitting hairs and inventing countless, idiotic hybrids...........C'mon, Djent ???? f**king really ???? Not to mention Neo-Death-Fusion-Grindcore-Avante-World-Prog..............may as well call the next up-coming micro-genre as symphonic syphilis algebra-ska.
Joined: November 03 2006
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Posted: December 28 2016 at 04:24
^ hahahaha
In the IDM-genre are so many subgenres (thanks to last.fm and discogs). When you think you are listening to chillout, it's in fact downtempo psydub and when you think you are listening to techno it's supposed to be progressive neo-trance.
Ah whatever....
Sometimes it's handy, when looking for similar artists when you really can's see the wood for the trees.
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is Metal Rock Progressive !?
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A_Flower wrote:
