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Big Kid Josie 
Forum Groupie 
Joined: June 23 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 48 |
 Topic: Jeff Beck-prog or prog-related?Posted: July 06 2015 at 11:16 |
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Just wondered what everyone thinks of Jeff Beck's work...is it prog or prog-related?
When I think of prog, I think of the following qualities: Instrumental virtuosos Extended suites with time signature changes Epics with more mature lyrics than "I'm your boogeyman" Symphonic-style music, often-times working with orchestras Incorporation of multiple styles/genres of music Unique/original music I'm sure everyone has their own definition of prog and that's probably a 20-page thread I haven't read yet, but I would say that Beck is: A. a virtuoso, definitely has worked in multiple genres from blues to r&b to hard rock, traditional jazz, jazz-fusion, electronica, etc. B. done extended-length songs with time sig changes (the Wired album, "Darkness/Earth in Search of a Sun" from his live with Jan Hammer album) C. done symphonic-style music ("Diamond Dust" from Blow By Blow, "Beck's Bolero", for example) D. incorporated multiple genres obviously, to include all of the above and also songs like "Nadia" with mid-eastern/Indian influences E. certainly a unique, original musician who does his own thing I saw him in 76 with Jan Hammer on keys and Steve Kindler on violin and was astounded by the interplay between the 3 of them as a teenager...one of the best shows I've ever seen. What say you regarding Mr. Beck? |
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Evolver
Special Collaborator 
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams Joined: October 22 2005 Location: The Idiocracy Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 12:34 |
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Jeff Beck is included here under "Jazz Rock/Fusion".'Nuff said.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 12:36 |
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Regardless of the 'detail' of time signature changes, Wired is considered a jazz rock / fusion album by many. IF that alone is enough for inclusion can be debated, but yes, you have a point as a far as I'm concerned.
Edited by Angelo - July 06 2015 at 15:59 |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20671 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:06 |
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Neither imo but certainly fusion at times on many of his albums.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:48 |
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I don't really care what his classification is, I have been a major fan since
the Yardbirds. In his short stint with the band he played on most of their big hits. In my opinion, Beck-Ola is one of the best hard rock albums of all time and I never get tired of listening to Blow By Blow. In the seventies I saw The Jeff Beck Group (2nd version) twice and Beck, Bogert & Appice once. I went to an outdoor music festival in '68 where the original Jeff Beck Group was scheduled to headline but unfortunately they cancelled due to the fact that they were in the process of breaking up. |
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Big Kid Josie
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 23 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 48 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 16:11 |
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Agree with you 100% that the classification doesn't matter...Beck is one of the finest guitar players and innovators in modern music, to me.
Just curious as to how far the envelope of what is considered "prog" extends into the jazz-fusion sphere. One could make the argument that Al DiMeola or Return to Forever or Mahavishnu Orchestra were "prog". Like Beck, they were/are all virtuosos playing tricky instrumentals with time sig changes. King Crimson certainly had a jazzy side...I wonder if they would have been considered "prog" if their first line-up hadn't established them as art-rock progressive on ITCOTCK first, before they ventured further into jazz? It seems like the interface between prog and jazz-fusion is a thin one, they share so many common qualities. |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 16:27 |
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It is a very thin line. If they don't overlap at least they meet and shake hands.
I've been a jazz-rock/fusion fan for years and I've seen Jeff Beck cross the line before. He played on several tracks on Stanley Clarke's Journey To Love and surely something from Blow By Blow could be thrown into the Prog or Prog-related question.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 17:00 |
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Prog, exhibit 1 - Blow By Blow...
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20671 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 17:26 |
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So...explain in detail how it is progressive rock...?  |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007 Location: n/a Status: Offline Points: 8052 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 18:18 |
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Surely Pharaoh Sanders would fall into 'prog' by those criteria (as do Dire Straits, to the lasting chagrin of many of the collaborators here  ). Doesn't really matter much to be honest. The broad-ish umbrella of prog here tends to include artists on the basis of one or two albums unless the popular perception of said artist overwhelms it, really. The real answer is probably that some of Beck's stuff is exploratory jazz fusion - he used to support at The Mahavishnu Orchestra IIRC. Is that 'prog' or just an offshoot of jazz that a lot of prog rock fans like... I dunno. |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 18:42 |
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I've read enough interviews and liner notes over the years to conclude that
Jeff Beck himself would not want to be categorized. He once said that he tries to make his guitar sound like everything but a guitar. How do you categorize that approach? |
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2014 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 04:30 |
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I'd argue fusion for sure.
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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odinalcatraz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 12 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 347 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 10:38 |
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How WAS it progressive maybe you mean? Nothing stays progressive. |
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http://www.corvusstone.com
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odinalcatraz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 12 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 347 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 10:41 |
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How many guitarists can be recognised in a single note? Jeff is probebly the only guitarist that I can be sure of knowing who it is instantly.
He plays annoying music and keeps changing. That is prog I would say. Incredible and a one off. Also underrated! |
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http://www.corvusstone.com
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Big Kid Josie
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 23 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 48 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 12:10 |
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I think you could make a pretty good case for the song "Diamond Dust" off Blow by Blow being prog. It's a pretty long instrumental that features orchestra and has an extended solo break in the middle...it has an orchestral feel to me. "Scatterbrain" is another song that sounds very proggy.
There are other songs on the album that have a lot of the attributes I look for in prog, as well.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Online Points: 18808 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 13:57 |
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IMO, fusion IS a form of prog. Europe = art/symph rock. USA = fusion/symph rock. Both are 'progressive' rock, IMO. |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20671 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 15:33 |
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Huh...?  |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Big Kid Josie
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 23 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 48 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 16:15 |
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Another thing I would note about Beck's fusion period with Jan Hammer Band: as I mentioned, they gave a great show in 76, trading off between synthesizer, guitar and violin...it reminded me at the time of my first concert, which was Kansas, which also had that keyboards-guitar-organ solo trade-offs in the same song, very similar vibe. But Kansas---certainly for their first couple of albums---are definitely prog...
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
Posted: July 14 2015 at 09:35 |
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I believe since his entry into "The Yardbirds" he proved who he was during a time period when the majority of Rock fans were only knocked out by your guitar playing if you were unique. In 66' he was adding color to the band which was one of the main courses 0f existing progression. That was a direct indication that he was a progressive type of player. He was an icon of the "British Blues" movement with a progressive edge much like Peter Green, John Mayall, and others...and took a stab at releasing albums of his own such as "Truth" which is sequenced like an early Led Zeppelin album. After all...Beck was an understudy of James Patrick Page. On the TRUTH album Beck plays his arrangement of "Greensleeves" and displays his progression on the guitar which differed from the level he was on during his stay with The Yardbirds. Apparently he was progressing towards something in music that contained a little bit more than just guitar playing.
His writing was magnificent on "Rough And Ready". "Got The Feeling", "Situation", "Short Business", "I've Been Used", "New Ways/Train Train are all written by Jeff Beck....and he co-wrote "Jody" which is one of the greatest Rock songs ever written. It's mixed with a Jazzy feel , but never loses it's identity of being a great Rock song of uniqueness. By the release of Jeff Beck Group his writing had decreased. Next move was the release of an instrumental album that crossed into Jazz/Fusion. Blow By Blow was very impressionable to people during the first month of it's release here in America. Many of the pieces are interesting and I like the album, but it's disappointing that he stopped writing and mostly worked with others that took over in the writing department and that has continued in his life ..since Blow By Blow...for whatever bizarre reason that may be? Point is....he was not a "middle of the road" type writer. His songs, sung by Bob Tench are intense with interesting melodies and changes. I thought he was a great writer! I will never understand it. There are thousands of people in this world that could never hear the chord progressions and melodies that Jeff Beck wrote for Rough And Ready. Additionally....we need more people in the world who can write like that. Noticing in my youth how easy his licks were...until discovering that he didn't use a pick, (for the most part), and now the licks are more considerably difficult to play because you must develop an involved finger picking technique with your right hand. For a few years in the early 70's....he seemed to be focused on finding a lead vocalist and having a Rock band under the name of Jeff Beck Group. He wasn't nearly successful as Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Free, Ten Years After and others...so he tried an instrumental album ...eventually..and went skyrocketing. Fusion is a form of Prog, but not originally and not in all aspects considered in the history of music. When Fusion was forming by younger musicians ...previously working for Miles Davis, the study was based on Jazz and not a concept like Keith Emerson had. Keith Emerson played Jazz and Classical beautifully, but he wasn't actually writing Jazz music ...aside from his skilled sounding piano playing or incorporating it into a song , giving Prog a new definition of sound. Today Prog is split into genres , but back then, Rock musicians trying to be Jazz Fusion players..steered away from those certain formulas found in the music of Genesis, ELP, and Yes and emulated or imitated only a portion of it, to think outside the box and expand more into the style of Jazz itself.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20671 |
Posted: July 14 2015 at 10:17 |
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^..Rough and Ready is still my favorite Beck album....not a bad song on the album..in fact they are all great. Never thought of him as prog though he does wander into that genre at times via his fusion work on his many instrumental albums. I also wish he had written more over the years and I find that curious.I'm currently listening to his new live album.. Live+.....Beck is always interesting and worth hearing.
Edited by dr wu23 - July 14 2015 at 10:18 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Jeff Beck-prog or prog-related?
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Slartibartfast wrote: