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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 01:53 |
PF sell >25 million copies of each album - SWilson sells 250,000
Roger Waters tour is filling 30,000 seat arenas - SWilson is playing 800 seat venues.
Do the maths.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 01:58 |
Dean wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ What is your problem, man? If you are having a bad day, why engage in a conversation at all? |
Why make this personal? | Not making it personal. I just found the negativity of the tone of your response unnecessary. I have feelings.
Dean wrote:
PF sell >25 million copies of each album - SWilson sells 250,000Roger Waters tour is filling 30,000 seat arenas - SWilson is playing 800 seat venues. Do the maths. | And I didn't know anything about it. But how is it that SW manages to afford the recording of his albums, paying his colleagues, etc.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 28 2013 at 02:01
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:13 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ And I didn't know anything about it. But how is it that SW manages to afford the recording of his albums, paying his colleagues, etc. |
Eh? Do you understand how business works at all? Profit (ie richness) is what is left after you have paid all the expenses, not before. What SWislon earns from touring and selling albums pays for the band and funds the next album, what is left is his personal wealth. If we are really generous and assume that SWIlson Inc. grosses £500,000 per year (because at the moment he is releasing 1 album a year and touring that album to promote it) then that gross operating income funds everything to do with the production of those albums and tours, incuding all transport, salaries (including backstage personel) and all recording and production costs, whatever is left after that (if any) is his personal wealth.
A business that turns over £½million/year is, by definition, a small business - profit on that is considered to be good if it manages 10%, few small businesses manage that level of profitability - a personal income of £50K per year is not classed as "rich".
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:15 |
I said your logic was stupid - I did not say you were stupid.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:22 |
^ I feel no difference. Still, it's my logic, it's a part of me ... or at least it was slightly duller before.
Dean wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ And I didn't know anything about it. But how is it that SW manages to afford the recording of his albums, paying his colleagues, etc. | Eh? Do you understand how business works at all? Profit (ie richness) is what is left after you have paid all the expenses, not before. What SWislon earns from touring and selling albums pays for the band and funds the next album, what is left is his personal wealth. If we are really generous and assume that SWIlson Inc. grosses £500,000 per year (because at the moment he is releasing 1 album a year and touring that album to promote it) then that gross operating income funds everything to do with the production of those albums and tours, incuding all transport, salaries (including backstage personel) and all recording and production costs, whatever is left after that (if any) is his personal wealth. A business that turns over £½million/year is, by definition, a small business - ... | That I knew.
Dean wrote:
... - profit on that is considered to be good if it manages 10%, few small businesses manage that level of profitability - a personal income of £50K per year is not classed as "rich". | That I didn't.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 28 2013 at 02:26
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:28 |
If you really don't know that Wilson's mainstream success does not begin to approach Pink Floyd's, perhaps you shouldn't challenge johnobvious with a counter-example that is not valid.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:31 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ Still, it's my logic, it's a part of me ... or was. |
People are all too quick to take offense around here.
If someone says something stupid I will say that was a stupid thing to say, that does not mean that person is stupid. I say and do stupid things, but I am not stupid.
Indulging in illegal downloading does not mean the people who do it are stupid - but arguing that it is justified based on poor assumptions is stupid.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:32 |
rogerthat wrote:
If you really don't know that Wilson's mainstream success does not begin to approach Pink Floyd's, perhaps you shouldn't challenge johnobvious with a counter-example that is not valid.
| You don't have to believe this, but I wasn't challenging him. I was genuinely wondering about SW's state of wealth.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:33 |
Fair enough but your tone "I'd love to look at PF's bank statements..." made it sound as if you doubted the validity of what he wrote. And I don't have anything against questioning the validity of what somebody says, by all means question, but not for the sake of it. I assume Wilson's new album sales are lower than the repeat sales of Floyd's legacy of bestselling albums.
Ah, I don't even have to assume. Wiki says that the 30th anniversary SACD edition of DSOTM sold more than 800000 copies. They have a headstart and then some over Wilson.
Edited by rogerthat - February 28 2013 at 02:34
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:46 |
Wonder how this can go on for 6 pages.
Music was copied from day one, especialy the third world was and is floating with illigal tapes, asia with illigal CD's.
99/100 Listners shared music on tapes and later CD's - long before peers to peers was a huge problem.
Its not something new ! Its like drugs, you can fight it, but you can never beat it.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 02:56 |
tamijo wrote:
Wonder how this can go on for 6 pages.
Music was copied from day one, especialy the third world was and is floating with illigal tapes, asia with illigal CD's.
99/100 Listners shared music on tapes and later CD's - long before peers to peers was a huge problem.
Its not something new ! Its like drugs, you can fight it, but you can never beat it.
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It goes like this: filesharing coincides with the worst slump in music sales since at least the 60s. Whether there is a complete direct correlation of 1 with that, I don't know. But the aggrieved parties, being the musicians, would naturally mount a campaign against piracy because they are already fighting for a share of a smaller pie.
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Ady Cardiac
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2012
Location: Witney , UK
Status: Offline
Points: 396
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 03:00 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
I don't know if I speak for a lot of prog fans (I'd like to think I do here), but I absolutely want a physical copy of this album - be it the CD version, the LP version, a DVD Audio version, etc. Actually - make that ANY album period.
I've been buying LP's and CD's my whole life, and I'm not interested in hoarding a bunch of data on a computer.
Besides, I think especially progressive rock fans appreciate elaborate artwork, intricate cover artwork, packaging, CD booklets, LP gatefold sleeves, etc. I love scanning over the lyrics, inner sleeves, etc, maybe even displaying a special album on a wall.
Hope plenty of others feel the same way! |
despite pages and pages rattling on about this......this sums it up for me nicely....and it was the second post......
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 03:07 |
File shareing is a part of it, so is youtube, and then there may just be a shift in the young peoples use of music, compared to those days of sitting back in a (smoke filled) room, listning to the latest album from :
"Henry and his pink mayday space travel disasters"
looking trough the surreal picturebook and reading the full story of who was on bass at the last 4 beats of the third track.
Those day was great, but i think they are gone forever, filesharing or not.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 03:12 |
Absolutely, the recorded album as an experience has been greatly devalued, that is a huge change from back then. Also, rock has 'matured' and 'grown old', so it's, ironically, easier for big older bands to sell albums. Snakes & Arrows apparently sold over 6,00,000 copies in all. They may not be amazing numbers for Rush, but they are very substantial numbers for a progressive rock band in these times. Old bands were supposed to fade away and ring in the new; instead they keep rolling on and compete, especially on tour. Muse is one of the few new bands that have built on initial successes to become a big band, with their latest selling 1.4 million copies.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 03:22 |
rogerthat wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Wonder how this can go on for 6 pages.
Music was copied from day one, especialy the third world was and is floating with illigal tapes, asia with illigal CD's.
99/100 Listners shared music on tapes and later CD's - long before peers to peers was a huge problem.
Its not something new ! Its like drugs, you can fight it, but you can never beat it.
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It goes like this: filesharing coincides with the worst slump in music sales since at least the 60s. Whether there is a complete direct correlation of 1 with that, I don't know. But the aggrieved parties, being the musicians, would naturally mount a campaign against piracy because they are already fighting for a share of a smaller pie.
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There is also the magnitude of each sharing method to consider - trading tapes between friends is a 1:1 relationship - pirated tapes is a 1:many relationship - neither of those had a significant impact. No one knows the raltionship of illegal downloading (because no one can count the actual number of downloads) but since the method of production is infinite and the ease with which anyone can do it means a greater number of people can do it then the potential relationship approaches the infinite. When artists can observe CD sales decline the instant an album is leaked we can assume it is significant, and there are many other observable effects we can detect that indicate that illegal downloading has a greater impact and is far more significant than any other pirating method.
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 03:25 |
Ady Cardiac wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
I don't know if I speak for a lot of prog fans (I'd like to think I do here), but I absolutely want a physical copy of this album - be it the CD version, the LP version, a DVD Audio version, etc. Actually - make that ANY album period.
I've been buying LP's and CD's my whole life, and I'm not interested in hoarding a bunch of data on a computer.
Besides, I think especially progressive rock fans appreciate elaborate artwork, intricate cover artwork, packaging, CD booklets, LP gatefold sleeves, etc. I love scanning over the lyrics, inner sleeves, etc, maybe even displaying a special album on a wall.
Hope plenty of others feel the same way! |
despite pages and pages rattling on about this......this sums it up for me nicely....and it was the second post...... |
Personaly i have no use for a hardcopy of my music, i put it into the PC anyway. But that does not change the fact that filesharing is illigal. I just wish it was not as hard to get legal downloads, for some obsure reason, many artist do only provide the option to get the CD, and pay for a totaly (for me) unwanted shipment.
Regarding legal downloads :
I cant get it from amazon UK, "due to legal rights this service is not for your region" even if they got it, so basicly i will have to look for providers in Russia (hopefully legal) or sometimes be luckey to get it from Sweeden.
For some obsure reason, it seems like the record compagny/dealers in denmark, are more conservative than in the rest of the world, and keep protecting rights to distribute physical copies only.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Ady Cardiac
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2012
Location: Witney , UK
Status: Offline
Points: 396
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 03:50 |
soon be a different kettle of fish if all these people downloading illegally were caught and busted for it......opinions would change then for sure.......but i cant see that changing......call me boring but i still buy CD's/Vinyl......always will and no one will change that for me........as long as its looked after right then no probs.......i had a friend who had his computer corrupted and even though he had all this security on his PC he lost everything.....legal and illegal......i thought it was quite funny as everyone relies on these computers these days.....but if they go wrong........tough....i think i'll just stick to what i know cheers.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 04:05 |
But if you don't store it on C:, you should ideally recover any data lost if the computer corrupts. Further, a computer rarely fails on the user if it is well looked after and a virus check is run regularly, IF you do not download from illegal filesharing websites or visit porn websites, etc etc.
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Ady Cardiac
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2012
Location: Witney , UK
Status: Offline
Points: 396
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 04:07 |
you'd have to ask him mate......i dont even know how to download music or anything......let alone know where to go to download stuff illiegally.......i'll just stick to CD's/Vinyl.
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 1361
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Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:40 |
Well I just checked celebritynetworth.com and our friend SW was not listed. Must not have enough money to make the grade.
David Gilmour is listed as $130 million net worth. Waters is $145 million. Nick Mason: $75 Million.
Mick Jagger: $305 Million
Paul McCartney: $800 Million
Carly Rae Jepsen is at $1 Million. Anybody want to guess is SW is above her? I would say "no." And if he isn't, I don't begrudge him a bit for his facebook post because their ain't no justice in the world.
Edited by johnobvious - February 28 2013 at 08:42
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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