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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 07:59
I have said  before  that I despise the Liverpool accent. And  Northern Irish. *shudder*

Edited by Snow Dog - September 25 2012 at 08:05
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:07
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

I bet Dean speaks Cornish. Wink
Alas Dean speaks Cornish pasty and Cornish ice cream - I would love to speak the Brythonic language of my area of England rather than Cornish, but sadly that disapeared long ago - though if you refer to your male parent as "Dad" then at least one Brythonic word has survived into modern usage.
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The problem is the accent - to pronounce it properly I have to adopt a French accent - if I use an English accent I end up sounding like an American and will have to pronouince that damn "r" - Krass-ahnt ...ew-yeuk! - and that's the problem - to me it sounds like I'm taking the piss out of their accent - I may just as well be sticking out my bottom lip and shrugging my shoulders (á la Peter Sellers) to get just the right inflection if it wasn't such a crass caricature that only wearing a horizontally stripped t-shirt and beret and carrying a string of onions could possibly make any worse.


Oddly, it's been my experience that adopting as over-the-top and stereotypical an accent as possible has won me praise for sounding naturalistic in the language classes I've taken. Maybe those stereotypes exist for a reason.
I'm fairly confident that stereotypes were created for ridicule rather that to perfect pronunciation, but I'm sure the essence of what we are both saying is correct - to speak a language you need to adopt the relevant accent however caricatured that may seem.
 
One "curiosity" I've noticed over the past 40 years or so is the shift in accent of Europeans speaking English as a second language from British English to American English. If they start saying "aluminum" in stead of "aluminium" we may have to start another pan-european war just to put them right.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:07
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

So one is not a bigot only when one knows 7 languages and has travelled a lot?

That paragraph makes little sense. Maybe translated to Cantonese its value will be revealed. I still fail to see why is it so impossible to understand that there is not always a need to learn other languages.

<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">That's right! How would you possibly know or judge my level of bigotry? Gracias, querido Teodoro, tu eres muy buena gente! 
<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">Truth is I am only bigoted towards small-minded people who glorify themselves in being sarcastic, senselessly critical and downright nasty. Like you three gloriously erudite geniuses. <div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">The paragraph makes sense within the previous context, it has no grammatical errors and stays strictly within the confines of nationalism and economic cost and benefits.  It also expresses my general attitude towards forum contributors as well . Go ahead and translate it into Cantonese but I doubt you would understand any better.<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">But I could do it in espanol for you if you wish!<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; "><div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">Yeah, learn one first....... And you say I cannot write? 
. I'm not that sure your Spanish translation will be up to par, but anyway. What? The only one that started linking the lack of need to learn another language with nationalism is you, the only intellectual bigot I see here. It's quite clear why a person might choose not to learn another language from a cost-benefit analysis. Yet this all sounds impossible and chauvinistic. Oh I'm confused
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:08
Can we all agree is Dream Theater and not Dream Theatre?
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:13
Same goes for Firesign Theater.
My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:16
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Can we all agree is Dream Theater and not Dream Theatre?


I think we should just keep pushing the r further and further forward in the word. Dream Thearte or Dream Therate sound nice, don't they?


Edited by thellama73 - September 25 2012 at 08:16
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:19
It gets more metal the further in the R gets.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:21
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Can we all agree is Dream Theater and not Dream Theatre?


I think we should just keep pushing the r further and further forward in the word. Dream Thearte or Dream Therate sound nice, don't they?
Dream Threate sounds a bit threatening
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:21
My favorite take on the English language comes out of Ireland.

"The English language brings out the best in the Irish. They court it like a beautiful woman. They make it bray with donkey laughter. They hurl it at the sky like a paint pot full of rainbows, and then make it chant a dirge for man's fate and man's follies that is as mournful as misty spring rain crying over the fallow earth."
T.E. Kalem
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 08:47
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Can we all agree is Dream Theater and not Dream Theatre?
I'm not that fussed - spelling is only spelling and it changes with time - the idea tha spelling is fixed and immutable is darft. Though it would be nice if the peoples of the USA would stop living in the past and get with the times - it's been 300 years since we changed the spelling to "re" did you not get the memo? If they insisted I pronounced it thea-ay-tah like some overacting drama queen then I may take exception.
 
I only use "Dream Theatre" to get a reaction from DT fans, (which I always do), and that amuses me.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:21
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

So one is not a bigot only when one knows 7 languages and has travelled a lot?

That paragraph makes little sense. Maybe translated to Cantonese its value will be revealed. I still fail to see why is it so impossible to understand that there is not always a need to learn other languages.

<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">That's right! How would you possibly know or judge my level of bigotry? Gracias, querido Teodoro, tu eres muy buena gente! 
<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">Truth is I am only bigoted towards small-minded people who glorify themselves in being sarcastic, senselessly critical and downright nasty. Like you three gloriously erudite geniuses. <div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">The paragraph makes sense within the previous context, it has no grammatical errors and stays strictly within the confines of nationalism and economic cost and benefits.  It also expresses my general attitude towards forum contributors as well . Go ahead and translate it into Cantonese but I doubt you would understand any better.<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">But I could do it in espanol for you if you wish!<div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; "><div style=": rgb248, 248, 252; ">Yeah, learn one first....... And you say I cannot write? 
. I'm not that sure your Spanish translation will be up to par, but anyway. What? The only one that started linking the lack of need to learn another language with nationalism is you, the only intellectual bigot I see here. It's quite clear why a person might choose not to learn another language from a cost-benefit analysis. Yet this all sounds impossible and chauvinistic. Oh I'm confused
If you are not sure, why make the comment? I am the intellectual bigot you mention because when someone glorifies lack of knowledge and justifies it with convoluted arguments such as not having a car as a benefit or not speaking a language being a benefit shows remarkable perceptive genius. I guess being negative soothes many internal pains, such as confusion. 
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:24
^Could you please respond to my point about not learning Cornish? It's not a convoluted argument, it's a simple fact that comes from having limited resources, including time.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:34
I enjoyed the videos.  Interesting the American accents that were chosen, I wonder if from TV or whatever they are the ones with the most exposure (I'm sure that's the case).

For what it's worth, I (now) have a Philadelphia accent.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:38
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

^Could you please respond to my point about not learning Cornish? It's not a convoluted argument, it's a simple fact that comes from having limited resources, including time.

If I would ever formulate the need to learn Cornish ( a move, a mate, whatever) I would not base the decision on cost analysis alone! If you had the right to inject cost analysis into the debate, why cannot I inject nationalism? Different rules? There are thousands of languages that time would not permit one to learn in a lifetime but to state that its a benefit not to know is simply anathema to me. If you want something and can't have it, how can that be an asset? It's called a dream, a hope , an aspiration. I guess in an esoteric sense , your argument makes sense but why ridicule me in the process? You seem very Cartesian in your philosophical approach, all is mathematics and bottom line. Fine, my best friend is a chartered accountant but he has a sense of humor! (He is a Brit!)  So the moment one offers up a wider scope  of thought, it becomes ludicrous? Why? 
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 66588 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:41
I would say that I probably speak Midwestern American English, although I was once asked by a friend's mom about my New England accent, although aside from the occasional Ha-vahd, I don't really think that applies. 
 
Funny enough when I have made trips to Florida, I have found myself tossing in some y'alls after a bit of exposure to them. 
 
Weighing in on the ongoing discussion: calling not knowing another language a benefit is kind of a misnomer, but as a financial guy I do understand the cost benefit notion of the comment.  Unfortunately, I think with our culture, rather than it being a choice of weighing the cost-benefit of learning a new language versus learning a trade or skill, the items that are being weighed are learning a new language, skill or trade, or watching Jersey Shore, and in many cases watching Jersey Shore wins out.  (of course one might argue that those watching Jersey Shore are also learning a new language so maybe that isn't the best of examples LOL).


Edited by rushfan4 - September 25 2012 at 09:42
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:49
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

^Could you please respond to my point about not learning Cornish? It's not a convoluted argument, it's a simple fact that comes from having limited resources, including time.

If I would ever formulate the need to learn Cornish ( a move, a mate, whatever) I would not base the decision on cost analysis alone! If you had the right to inject cost analysis into the debate, why cannot I inject nationalism? Different rules? There are thousands of languages that time would not permit one to learn in a lifetime but to state that its a benefit not to know is simply anathema to me. If you want something and can't have it, how can that be an asset? It's called a dream, a hope , an aspiration. I guess in an esoteric sense , your argument makes sense but why ridicule me in the process? You seem very Cartesian in your philosophical approach, all is mathematics and bottom line. Fine, my best friend is a chartered accountant but he has a sense of humor! (He is a Brit!)  So the moment one offers up a wider scope  of thought, it becomes ludicrous? Why? 


What would you base your decision on then? You admit that you don't learn it because you don't have a need and it would take up too much of your time. That is a cost-benefit analysis! I have repeatedly stated that "cost" and "benefit" do not mean "money." A cost is anything you give up to get something, a benefit can include pleasure and satisfaction.

It's not about wanting something you can't have, it's about not wanting something because you want something else more, in this case the time spent doing other things besides learning Cornish.
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 09:51
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I would say that I probably speak Midwestern American English, although I was once asked by a friend's mom about my New England accent, although aside from the occasional Ha-vahd, I don't really think that applies. 
 
Funny enough when I have made trips to Florida, I have found myself tossing in some y'alls after a bit of exposure to them. 
 
Weighing in on the ongoing discussion: calling not knowing another language a benefit is kind of a misnomer, but as a financial guy I do understand the cost benefit notion of the comment.  Unfortunately, I think with our culture, rather than it being a choice of weighing the cost-benefit of learning a new language versus learning a trade or skill, the items that are being weighed are learning a new language, skill or trade, or watching Jersey Shore, and in many cases watching Jersey Shore wins out.  (of course one might argue that those watching Jersey Shore are also learning a new language so maybe that isn't the best of examples LOL).


Yes, you are right. To be clear, I never actually said "not knowing a language is a benefit." He put those words in my mouth. I said the benefit you get from doing something else is greater than the benefit you get from learning the language.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 10:00
How can I put anything in your mouth? Believe me I would if I could. But your not my kind of guy. Big smile

Edited by tszirmay - September 25 2012 at 10:00
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 10:05
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

^Could you please respond to my point about not learning Cornish? It's not a convoluted argument, it's a simple fact that comes from having limited resources, including time.

If I would ever formulate the need to learn Cornish ( a move, a mate, whatever) I would not base the decision on cost analysis alone! If you had the right to inject cost analysis into the debate, why cannot I inject nationalism? Different rules? There are thousands of languages that time would not permit one to learn in a lifetime but to state that its a benefit not to know is simply anathema to me. If you want something and can't have it, how can that be an asset? It's called a dream, a hope , an aspiration. I guess in an esoteric sense , your argument makes sense but why ridicule me in the process? You seem very Cartesian in your philosophical approach, all is mathematics and bottom line. Fine, my best friend is a chartered accountant but he has a sense of humor! (He is a Brit!)  So the moment one offers up a wider scope  of thought, it becomes ludicrous? Why? 


What would you base your decision on then? You admit that you don't learn it because you don't have a need and it would take up too much of your time. That is a cost-benefit analysis! I have repeatedly stated that "cost" and "benefit" do not mean "money." A cost is anything you give up to get something, a benefit can include pleasure and satisfaction.

It's not about wanting something you can't have, it's about not wanting something because you want something else more, in this case the time spent doing other things besides learning Cornish.
I never said it would take too much of my time! It seems we are both guilty of stating wrong quotes. A benefit can include pleasure but not when its non-pleasure. I guess for some, credit is a debit and vice-versa. Depends on your point of view, n'est ce pas?  
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2012 at 10:11

not knowing a language is a benefit (what I said of you) =The benefit (of learning a language) is not worth the cost for most of us (what you said) .

 Is there a huge difference between these 2 statements? 
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