Libertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die! |
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 18:59 | |||
I'm an optimistic person, but I have lost all hope that America can pull itself out of this socialist whirlpool without a complete economic meltdown. No politicians (and few voters) have the stomach to cut spending in the ways it needs to be cut, even in the face of financial collapse. You are absolutely right that taxes and monetary policy will solve nothing. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 19:18 | |||
Llama, you're back! How things have changed around here...
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 19:32 | |||
I apologize for my repeated long absences. I am having a very busy semester. But I try to stop by every now and then!
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32525 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:11 | |||
As much as I support our military, defense spending is more out of control than entitlement spending. What a lot of folks don't realize is that "welfare" takes up so little of our budget, that if it were cut out completely, practically nothing would change in terms of government spending.
Our big bills are interest on current debt and defense. The former you can't opt out of, and the latter most of us don't want to. That leaves the department of education. And we could get rid of the useless FDA, EPA, and other alphabet soup leaches. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:21 | |||
Rob, I'm afraid that's not true at all. Mandatory spending (SS, Medicare/Medicaid, etc.) is 56% of the federal budget for FY11. The base defense budget (excluding war costs) is $550b, only slightly more than just Medicare taken by itself.
Defense used to take up a much larger percentage of the budget 50+ years ago - besides spikes for various foreign adventures such as Vietnam, that percentage has steadily shrunk over that time period. That all said, I agree that there is far too much waste in the DoD budget, and it could be pared down considerably. At the least, SecDef is trying to move in the right direction. If "Tea Partiers" want to have an ounce of credibility, they'll include defense along with everything else in considering what cuts are to be made.
Edited by Padraic - February 07 2011 at 20:22 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:22 | |||
And don't leave out the BOAS... |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32525 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:27 | |||
The figures I referred to treat SS/Medicare as separate items because they are not "federal income tax," but "FICA." I apologize if I used the term "entitlement" inappropriately. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:27 | |||
What's a libertarian nation to do without a proper army? And who does the army represent? In a libertarian country where absolute elimination of the state occurs, frontiers pretty much disappear (at least from our side), massive migration, and there we can have the much dreaded chaos that I think can be avoided with minimal government. Also, if a country where to reach a state of true zero-government, who's to stop foreign foes from coming and pretty much doing what they want? I don't think private forces would be able to manage anything in this case, not economically (they build the arsenal anyway) but from an organizational point of view. That's why I think an army is necessary, an army that represents everybody (not the Edited by The T - February 07 2011 at 20:28 |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:29 | |||
What's the BOAS, besides an awfully big snake?
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:33 | |||
Handy pie chart.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32525 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:36 | |||
I got that Pat. I looked at several pie sharts before posting. I deliberately left out SS & Med because those funds don't (at present) contribute to the public debt.
That makes the DoD #1. Edited by Epignosis - February 07 2011 at 20:37 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:45 | |||
I get what you're saying. I just posted the pie chart for general reference, not to throw more spears at you.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32525 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:50 | |||
Spears rhymes with beers...I'd have taken them! |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 20:55 | |||
Enjoying a nice Sam Adams as we speak.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32525 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 21:00 | |||
My current stock consists of: 1 Sam Adams Revolutionary Rye Ale (too f**king good to drink) 1 Sam Adams Fezziwig (leftover from Christmas) 6 Milwaukee Best Ice 4 Milwaukee Best Premium (i.e., Regular) 1 Miller High Life So yeah, after tomorrow, I'll be drinking tea until Tuesday next week. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 21:11 | |||
Apparently, being libertarian implies a strong affinity towards beer...
In relation to this, I just read this article that makes a good point for something that Younger Pat argued in favor of a few months ago. I totally agree...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 21:14 | |||
An anarchist society gains some protection from three relatively plausible things that I'll assume exist and thus serve as a deterrent: 1) The anarchist society will be wealthier than other societies. 2) Free of any trade restrictions, the anarchist society will trade with any and all countries 3) Without a central government, invading an anarchist society is difficult. (See the US in Afghanistan) |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 21:15 | |||
I want to! |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 21:20 | |||
Get a haircut and a job you damn hippie
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: February 07 2011 at 21:23 | |||
I like having a strong military as much as anyone, but honestly our defense budget could probably be cut in half without anyone noticing. I would really like to get rid of medicare/mediciad/SSI though
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